LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Isabella]

I wonder, if you always have her in your party but don't say all the "right" things to her if you'll still get the HA. My copy of the game was stolen so I can't even fiddle around anymore, even if I didn't live at the office.

 

[Lily Ella]

I'm just curious, has anyone ever tried to determine which HW scene players are more likely to get? Is such a thing even determinable, or are there too many factors at play?

~high affection~ is the one you're more likely to get. Some peeps rarely use Tifa, but still get that one. You have to put effort into getting the ~low affection~ scene.

FP went and got an actual life or something.

He's busy. Married, and more work projects. And because his employers aren't incompetent idiots, he's able to take pretty vacations.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I'm just curious how it can be said that Aerith's date is 'canon' when all four dates always get discussed, but that either version of the highwind can be canon when only the higher version is discussed.

 

[Tennyo]

I'm just curious, has anyone ever tried to determine which HW scene players are more likely to get? Is such a thing even determinable, or are there too many factors at play?

I think you actually have to put effort into getting the low affection version. As in, never have Tifa in your party and always make sure you pick the most douche-baggy things for Cloud to say to her (not that your choices for what Cloud says to/about her are ever really mean, but still.) I think the High affection version is easiest to get, just as the Aerith date is the easiest of the four to get.

 

[Loxetta]

My last playthrough, I barely used Tifa in my party (read: never used her unless required) and got the HA scene. I also got her for the date. And was still nice to Aerith

I could understand saying there isn't a canon Highwind scene if the same people would also say there isn't a canon date scene, since yea, both scenes depend on the player's actions. But Aerith's date isn't the 'default' one. She starts with a higher affection value than Tifa does because Tifa is in the game earlier and you can build hers up before Aerith even appears. Not because Cloud digs chicks in pink over black.

 

[Joppylop]

Because they wouldn't be true cleriths without double standards?


Also, hi there everyone. I've posted a few times before, ut I doubt you guys remember me. I haven't been around because of deployments and moving and all. I'll attempt to post more now that I have more time on my hands and have my computer back.

 

[null]

Between FF and WoW it's amazing the Air Force has time to deploy.

 

[Shadowfox]

I could understand saying there isn't a canon Highwind scene if the same people would also say there isn't a canon date scene, since yea, both scenes depend on the player's actions. But Aerith's date isn't the 'default' one. She starts with a higher affection value than Tifa does because Tifa is in the game earlier and you can build hers up before Aerith even appears. Not because Cloud digs chicks in pink over black.

Personally, I think that Aerith's affection value starts off so high because it's a continuation of her feelings for Zack. That it's a game mechanics kind of way of transferring her affections for her first love onto the man in front of her who reminds her of him.

 

[Winter]

idk man, I was nice to both girls equally and I got Aerith as a date and the High Affection Highwind scene. From where I'm standing both of those are "canon".

I use the term canon loosely, as I doubt Square will ever visit any of this shit in-depth (no flashbacks to the HW scene or his date with Aerith, etc., we'll never know who the Don really picked, stuff like that) within the Compilation, so it really won't matter.

 

[Celes Chere]

Imo, Aerith's date scene is canon, and the HA version of the HW scene is canon. It just makes sense.

 

[Strangelove]

Imo, Aerith's date scene is canon, and the HA version of the HW scene is canon. It just makes sense.

Making sense?

You've stumbled into the wrong thread

 

[looneymoon]

IMO, the scenes that flow best with the continuity are the ones that should be considered to be "canon." Thus, Aeris date + High Affection HW scene.

Not that it really matters which one is canon anyways, since no matter what version you get it all comes to the same results in the end.

 

[Isabella]

My own take on this canon business, which may rub some people around here the wrong way but I don't give a shit.

I think when the game was first released there really wasn't a canon conclusion to the love triangle. There was a "more likely" scenario, the one most people who don't strongly favor one girl or the other will get. But the game did give you a certain degree of freedom to influence the outcome.

To oversimplify, let's say there were two "paths" you could follow: Path A and Path T. Path T, which takes you to the HA Highwind scene, is the easier and more commonly traveled, but nothing forced you to take it if you really didn't want to.

Then the powers that be decided to cash in explore the creative possibilities of the compilation. In order to do so, they needed to cement either Path A or Path T as canon, in order to have a solid foundation to build the rest of the compilation on. They made the choice of Path T.

That, IMO, is part of the reason why Nomura was so cagely in earlier interviews. I think there was a time when it really was up to us whether Cloud ended up with Tifa or not. But after AC was released and beyond, he became a lot more forthcoming, as did the others, because they'd made the decision on which to build their narrative and figured folks who had seen the movie, played the games and read the novellas would see that.

So, to sum up, I think a canon pairing was the result of the compilation.

Now, go ahead and jump on me about how Aerith was never a real option. (I'm looking at you, Vendel.)

 

[Joppylop]

I agree with LV, Celes, and Loony. Aerith date + HA Highwind scene = canon
They make the most sense story wise. And Loxetta is right about why Aerith's affection starts out higher. It's just their way evening the girls out.

Edit, because I didn't see Bella's post. I disagree. Aerith was an option until she died. After that, Cloud was all about Tifa. This was obvious before the Compilation existed because of the Lifestream scene and the Highwind scene. Because some people still interpreted it differently, SE could still say "well, it's how you see it", but they had to become more forthcoming about it when the comp came out because that can't be said anymore. Just because the creators were being a little more ambiguous back then, doesn't mean that CxT wasn't canon when only the original game existed.

 

[Isabella]

If that's true, why even have two highwind scenes?

 

[looneymoon]

Also like to add to Isabella's post that there was no canon "end" to the story. Cloud could have either lived or died (or narratively gone down "Path A or Path T" as Bella says). What with the release of the compilation, the writers had no choice but to go down the "humans survive" scenario, which most logically corresponds with Path T.

 

[Joppylop]

Why have four date scenes if the Aerith date is supposed to be 'more' canon? Just so the players can keep that feeling that their preference matters. Doesn't change the fact that they revealed their feelings in the Lifestream and stayed the night together in the HW scene. The original game made it obvious who Cloud had feelings for, regardless of what scenes came out of the date machanics.

@Loony
Before the compilation came out, I did think that humanity was wiped out (because of what Bugenhagan said about it). Yeah, the comp disproved this theory, but the reason they chose 'Path T' is because it logically fit with that scenario? They chose Path T at the Lifestream scene, whether the characters lived or died at the end has no bearing on weather or not they confessed their feelings.

 

[null]

My own take on this canon business, which may rub some people around here the wrong way but I don't give a shit.

I think when the game was first released there really wasn't a canon conclusion to the love triangle. There was a "more likely" scenario, the one most people who don't strongly favor one girl or the other will get. But the game did give you a certain degree of freedom to influence the outcome.

To oversimplify, let's say there were two "paths" you could follow: Path A and Path T. Path T, which takes you to the HA Highwind scene, is the easier and more commonly traveled, but nothing forced you to take it if you really didn't want to.

Then the powers that be decided to cash in explore the creative possibilities of the compilation. In order to do so, they needed to cement either Path A or Path T as canon, in order to have a solid foundation to build the rest of the compilation on. They made the choice of Path T.

That, IMO, is part of the reason why Nomura was so cagely in earlier interviews. I think there was a time when it really was up to us whether Cloud ended up with Tifa or not. But after AC was released and beyond, he became a lot more forthcoming, as did the others, because they'd made the decision on which to build their narrative and figured folks who had seen the movie, played the games and read the novellas would see that.

So, to sum up, I think a canon pairing was the result of the compilation.

Now, go ahead and jump on me about how Aerith was never a real option. (I'm looking at you, Vendel.)

You make me so proud *sniff*

 

[Madame Mayor]

Ooh theory time, woo!

The way I see it, the reveal of romantic feelings to the gamer was during the Lifestream event where someone can correct me if I'm wrong but you have little to no optional dialogue. It was also the point where Cloud's feelings are revealed to Tifa, and while Tifa reveals her too, Cloud's mind isn't fully pieced together yet.

The highwind scenes are about whether or not Cloud has the courage to express his feelings right there and then to the woman he's always loved. This depends on how the gamer played Cloud, whether he stayed close to Tifa (ie, had her in the party) or how he responded to her.

So, Cloud loving Tifa was always a canon plot point, it's more about whether or not they get to realize it together before the end. High version is obviously more canon in light of the compilation.

 

[Isabella]

Interesting perspective. My only problem with it is the lifestream doesn't clear up with absolute certainty whether Cloud still feels that way for her or not. I'd argue it's clumsy story telling to put it in there if it has no bearing on present events (in fact, I'd argue path T makes more narrative sense all around). But what if your playing the game as Cloud not wanting Tifa around and he never chooses her for his party? Is it still accurate to say he loves her but doesn't have the nerve?

 

[OneWingedDemon]

So it's gonna be Vendel and I?
OK, FUCKERS, LET'S GO!

Aerith was never really an option

 

[Joppylop]

Interesting perspective. My only problem with it is the lifestream doesn't clear up with absolute certainty whether Cloud still feels that way for her or not. I'd argue it's clumsy story telling to put it in there if it has no bearing on present events (in fact, I'd argue path T makes more narrative sense all around). But what if your playing the game as Cloud not wanting Tifa around and he never chooses her for his party? Is it still accurate to say he loves her but doesn't have the nerve?

Then you're playing it wrong

 

[Isabella]

LOL, ok babe, you go first. Why do you think the LA highwind scene exists?

 

[Madame Mayor]

To me Cloud's mind telling Tifa to tell Cloud about her feelings because it'll make him so happy sealed the deal on whether or not those feelings were still there.

 

[Tennyo]

I'm going to interject with a question that doesn't really explain much, but when thinking about the HA and LA versions of that scene and wondering about that, you also have to wonder about all the other choices in the game.

Such as, why were Yuffie and Vincent optional? It's fun to learn about Wutai and all, but other than that Yuffie doesn't add much to the story. But why is she even there? Is she a canon part of the cast or not? Compilation made her so, but what was per purpose before?

Also, Vincent's backstory is not unimportant to the plot. In fact, he is directly tied to the main plot via his backstory and the events that led up to him being put to sleep in a coffin for thirty years. So why was he optional? Don't you think the game staff should have made him a requirement for the party? Does this mean that before the compilation Vincent and his backstory weren't canon? Lucrecia isn't really Sephiroth's mother unless the player decides to make it so?

Why was the flashback that explained what happened to Zack optional? Shouldn't that have had a bit more clout? Compilation made Zack a protagonist, but before he was just a side character that not many people seemed to even notice.

FFVII is just full of this stuff.