LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Ite]

Fair enough.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

If we're counting KH as a contributing factor, we should count FFT as well.

No one in their right mind counts KH as a contributing factor to anything FFVII related.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Even if you do count KH, which you're more than entitled to do, it doesn't offer much in any sort of validation towards Cloud and Aerith, either.

In Kingdom Hearts, Cloud is not looking for Aerith. He's looking for Sephiroth. At most, we're shown Cloud and Aerith being friends, with Aerith worrying over Cloud and his obsession over conquering Sephiroth.

In KH2, Tifa appears. And it's shown that Tifa is Cloud's light. That right there cements the bond between Cloud and Tifa, with his conflict emphasizing the importance of Tifa lending her support to Cloud to conquer his darkness (Sephiroth). Aerith is only present for one brief conversation with Cloud, which basically is "Do your best" and Cloud responding "he'll be back."

Kingdom Hearts definitely can reflect the overall picture and message of FFVII. It shows Cloud and Tifa inseparably bonded with Aerith being nothing more than a caring friend in the end.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I'm not going to use KH any more than I'm going to use monkeys, Ehrgeiz, soda cans or a television ad as 'proof' of fact within the canon narrative of FFVII. To suggest that is retarded. I don't give a crap if KH Cloud and Tifa are married and have babies, it matters squat to the FFVII narrative.

Yes, the characters can be reflections of themselves, and yes, what you said makes sense--to a degree. But the fact is KH is completely irrelevant to the compilation narrative.

 

[null]

For someone new to the LTD, this guy sure is going through the entire playbook in a hurry.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

I did, that didn't answer anything. The fact is the original game left it up to the player to decide who Cloud loved. It could have been Yuffie for all we care.

The only fact that is here, is that Nomura has a history of saying I’LL NEVER TELL, which idiots somehow interpret as “THERE IS NO ANSWER”.
He’s separated player choice from actual narrative fact time and time again. Fuck, he even does it in the quote you provided before (dun wanna chose for Cloud etc etc)

Kingdom Hearts definitely can reflect the overall picture and message of FFVII. It shows Cloud and Tifa inseparably bonded with Aerith being nothing more than a caring friend in the end.

FEED THEM!
QFT, I mean.

But since new-canon is the only canon, we have our answer. Cloti wins.

What's this old/new canon bullpoop?
I mean other than a way for some C/Aers to go: "well, we were right back in teh day anyway, he just moved on to Tifa now" because they refuse to be wrong?

 

[null]

Anway, about Dawson's Smallville Diaries: is it really a triangle, or does the girl just like Rebel Guy because he turned her and made her his thrall/bitch?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Curious...Nomura interview with some sort of gaming channel on Japanese television. He mentions where the next Compilation entry might take the LTD, among other things. The subtitler used "Aeris" for some reason...

There's still a lot of debate over if Cloud and Tifa are in a romantic relationship. Certainly in Final Fantasy 7, his feelings for Aeris and Tifa were a central part to the story, but in the Compilation and the games before and after 7, things are a bit different. In Advent Children and any titles set afterward, Aeris is dead but she's still an important part of Cloud's life, while Tifa is living with him. We've no desire to change either of the roles the two have, but instead want to expand on them. In the next title, which we're only discussing but haven't begun development of yet, I mentioned to Kitase

Spoiler

that I want to include an optional scene where Tifa watches Cloud mow the lawn

, but to say any more could spoil where we plan to take the series.

You can watch the interview here, the question above is about 1:15 in. You clicked that link, you know you did.

 

[crack]

That's a rather lame interview.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Yeah, he's a bit vague but info is info.

 

[crack]

He's no stranger to the LTD - he knows the rules, and so does the rest of the staff. A full commitment is what he's thinking of, I guess; I mean, you wouldn't want to get this just from any other guy. I suppose we can't tell what he's feeling, can't really understand.

 

[looneymoon]

crack, did you just get trolled?

or am I the one getting trolled by thinking you were the one getting trolled. The internet has left me suspicious of everyone

 

[crack]

He's never going to give you up, never going to let us down. He won't run around and desert us, never going to make the fans cry. He still hasn't said goodbye and he won't ever tell a lie and hurt the LTD.

He's known us fans for just so long, but his heart is aching and is just too shy to say it. Inside we all know what he's thinking of, we all know his game, and DAMNIT, we're going to play it. And if you ask him how he's feeling, don't tell me you're too blind to see.

 

[Tennyo]

Much hilarity has ensued here.

Well played, everyone.

 

[Winter]

Curious...Nomura interview with some sort of gaming channel on Japanese television. He mentions where the next Compilation entry might take the LTD, among other things. The subtitler used "Aeris" for some reason...



You can watch the interview here, the question above is about 1:15 in. You clicked that link, you know you did.

Drake that link is actually broken, try this.

 

[Super Mario]

POINT IS, I deduce the next title could be a dating sim, an action/dating sim or a mystery/thriller/dating sim game. Hopefully a straight answer will be given in time.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

It was random, but fun. Someone on the FFWiki IRC found the TGWTG reading of *that* fic and listened, so it was on my mind and...here we are.

Drake that link is actually broken, try this.

I knew what it was but clicked anyway in the spirit of fun. Then when my browser closed and I re-opened it, it automatically restored my tabs, including that one, and it closed a second time. XD

 

[Tennyo]

Drake that link is actually broken, try this.

YOU SUCK. YOU SUCK SO BAD YOU BITCH.

 

[Dashell]

somehow it always comes back to Cloud mows the Lawn

 

[Makoeyes987]

Somehow it always comes back to THIS THREAD BEING A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT WITH NO DEBATE.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Somehow it always comes back to THIS FORUM BEING A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT WITH NO DEBATE.

Fixed.

 

[Dashell]

well find someone to debate with

 

[Ryushikaze]

Cloud appears in Final Fantasy Tactics, runs off and his whole deal is that he's got that thing with the flower girl. After his encounter with the flower girl, he tells the party:

"I lost... a very important thing. Ever since then I've been lost. What should I do? What about this pain?"

It doesn't take a scholar to find the meaning behind that. That's pretty blatant Cleris angst right thar. If we're counting KH as a contributing factor, we should count FFT as well.

Actually, it doesn't. Because of a few things- 1. Losing Aerith being painful doesn't mean he wanted to 'be with' her any more than it means the rest of the party did with their pain.
2. It's actually also referencing his identity issues and conflict with Sephiroth, something that doesn't come out quite properly in the translation.
3. He's still searching for what he lost after that scene if you talk with him in the menu.

Of course, then Ramza says "There's someone in your world waiting for you. We might be able to send you back" etc. Ramza's authority on a complete stranger's life isn't exactly great, but as a vessel for the ideas of the authors he makes the case for CloTi. And the ambiguity continues. I'm positive that the original intention was to make it ambiguous, as the game never had a definitive answer, and all cameos (KH, FFT, Ehrgeiz) did not decide one way or the other. That is the old-canon.

Assuming that FFT has bearing FF7, really, how does this make it so there's no answer, and why the fuck are we looking to Cameos for the answer.
Again, ambiguous doesn't mean answerless.
Look, the LTD is solved on disc 1. Like it or not, narrative parsimony says when you take love triangle and kill one of the points, the other is the winner. That's even the cliche in Japanese literature. Setting that aside, and to forestall the 'Well, he's only with Tifa cuz Aerith's dead' nonsense that almost inevitably follows, I shall say a few things- post mortem romance NEEDS to be overt, because it's so unusual and asinine. That there's none suggests that there is in fact none. More importantly, you don't reinforce that the guy has had feelings for, has wanted to impress the other girl in the triangle, or have the guy tell the girl he'd be 'so pleased' to learn she was looking for word of him, or have him tell the living girl nothing has changed from when he obviously had a crush. You don't do any of that stuff if you want to emphasize a post mortem love because it MAKES NO SENSE. Hell, the least you need to do is have a scene like on Aerith's date where she talks about 'seeing you in him' or at the end of FFVIII with Laguna at Raine's grave.

But since new-canon is the only canon, we have our answer. Cloti wins.

While I appreciate your admitting the canon answer, I find somewhat absurd, and like Null notes, very playbook like, your casting of things as 'new canon' and 'old canon'
The canon as for the LTD remains unchanged. The answer has not changed. All that changed is the clarity of the answer, our window to the world.

For someone new to the LTD, this guy sure is going through the entire playbook in a hurry.

With almost practiced speed...

Curious...Nomura interview with some sort of gaming channel on Japanese television. He mentions where the next Compilation entry might take the LTD, among other things. The subtitler used "Aeris" for some reason...



You can watch the interview here, the question above is about 1:15 in. You clicked that link, you know you did.

No I didn't. Because I can see your text against the background there.

 

[Joker]

This is seriously still going on?

:jackwtf:

 

[Ite]

I'm a quick learner.

I agree on all the points you made, Ryu. Bringing up FFT was in rebuttal to people using KH canon as evidence. That Nomura quote that everyone is shitting themselves over is about KH, I've learned.

FHS already alluded to a television ad, and I assume it's already been refuted, but the 'Love that can never be' from this ad probably counts as much as soda cans, KH, or fanfiction. I'll move on.

Again, the point that she's dead doesn't hold a lot of weight in this thread, as it's not so much about who wins Cloud in the end, it's who he really loves. It could be argued that while he has feelings enough to fuck Tifa, his heart truly belonged to Aeris. I don't think that's the case, but opinion isn't valid here either. [insert macro]