LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

The one he lives with or the dead one?

  • Living

    Votes: 96 88.9%
  • Dead

    Votes: 12 11.1%

  • Total voters
    108
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Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Do kids actually talk about this stuff at school?

Dunno about kids, but I sometimes do. Usually prefaced by the 'So, wanna hear something stupid I saw someone spouting on the interenet?' followed by a beat and then 'That they actually believe?'

It's not always LTD related. I often speak about religious and conspiracy nutters too.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Do kids actually talk about this stuff at school?

Oh, God yes. My High School was really bad about it, you always see those movies about cliques and it's never that bad, but at my school it WAS. There wasn't a shipping group, but there was a group of weeabos. (is that what they're called?) Who would say things like,
"ICHIHIME IS SO KAWAII"
Or insult you by calling you "baka".

They also wore cat ears and fox tails. =/

So naturally, when you expressed your interest in Anime outside of this group, you were instantly shunned, lol.
 

Ladyofmoonlight

Rookie Adventurer
Momentary de-lurking...

Best pick up line: "I ship us."
Best reply to said pick up line: "It's totally canon."

Just tried this on my husband. It was awkward. He asked why I wanted to mail ourselves to people. Apparently not everyone in the world is knowledgeable about "shipping." I told him that Word of God confirmed us (I mean, we were married in a church) but he still didn't get it. *pout*

Commencing re-lurking in 3, 2, 1...
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
Do kids actually talk about this stuff at school?
Well, I remember talking to this one kid who had just started playing FF7 who called Tifa a 'big-titty bimbo' who was ruining Cloud and Aerith's true love. Or Cloud and Sephiroth. He had a hard time deciding which one was canon.

Also I had a friend who compared her love with her boyfriend to everything under the sun, no shit. Like with her and her ex, they were the tragic love of Gin and Rangiku from Bleach. When she hooked up with his best friend, they were the tsundere love of Ichigo and Rukia. Which later switched to Ichigo and Rangiku, idk why. Earlier, she compared her love with her middle school boyfriend to Cloud and Aerith and it's like 'oh, do you die at the end or something?'.

It tainted me a little to all the ships she and her loves were 'OMG JUST LIKE'.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
The affection stats seem to be deliberately set up so that you'll get Aerith all or most of the time, if you really don't bother to try. But that's just an impression.

There's so many little, unrelated things that can influence the outcome -- who you talk to first after the Don dumps you in the sewers, what you say to an NPC in Fort Condor, what you say to an NPC in Kalm who talks about mako energy, who you take with you to see Dyne, etc. -- that it's difficult to say.

Something as simple as favoring having one of the women in the party over the other might ultimately prove to make the difference by a couple of points -- and, of course, who you have in the party might have more to do with who you find more useful in battle than who you would prefer for Cloud.

NB said:
As for how Cloud's feelings factor into this, I've always & continued to maintain a neutral stance, but it's very difficult not to admit that there are some pretty heavy-handed "he loves Aerith" messages throughout the game. That said, regardless of who's "right" for whom, barring the variable of the affection scores, Cloud seems to have been paying more attention to Aerith at the time.

I disagree with this for the simple fact that all of those things are determined by the player. Really, aside from Cloud caring about Aerith's safety and emotional well-being -- which he also demonstrates for Tifa -- there's nothing resembling romantic interest that he ever expresses toward or about her that isn't determined by the player.

Even on the date with Aerith, one can choose to have Cloud say he didn't enjoy it.

What one thinks they see as Cloud expressing interest in or especial concern over Aerith is more than likely an impression left over from how they themselves treated her.

That said, I don't doubt that he was attracted to her.

NB said:
But really, you're missing the point. Just because you can do it that way, it doesn't mean it's as good of a set-up.

It depends on what later event you're looking at, really. Aerith's date sets up the reveal that Cloud isn't himself, but Tifa's date serves as a good bookend to her later successfully being honest about her feelings for Cloud, and getting him to do the same about her.

Really, both dates serve as useful thematic tools.
 

Vendel

Banned
Do you people still not get it? More enlightenment for you!

Tifa, on the other hand, has had her relationship with Cloud specifically referred to as being like that of a mother and son. Her bond with Cloud has also specifically been referred to as maternal and it has been stated that she is jealous of Cloud's bond with Aerith. Well, that makes sense only if Cloud's bond with Aerith is of a romantic nature. If all Tifa can claim is a familial bond with Cloud, she has every right to be jealous of another woman with a romantic love bond with Cloud. Otherwise, she'd have no reason to be jealous.


Tifa is Clouds mother. And his girlfriend is Aerith. EVERYTHING points to this.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Do you people still not get it? More enlightenment for you!




Tifa is Clouds mother. And his girlfriend is Aerith. EVERYTHING points to this.

So in Maiden Aerith is jealous of Tifa's maternal bond? She'd rather have that?... geeze what a nice GF :awesome:
 

Shadowfox

You look like you need a monkey
Tifa is Clouds mother. And his girlfriend is Aerith. EVERYTHING points to this.

So the woman he says he wants to have by side always, whom he'd always strive to make sure she smiles and is happy, the one he's worked so hard to be a hero for and the one he has sex with (because he's a man and she has teh boobies) is his mother.

Yet the woman he actually calls 'mother' is his girlfriend.

Cloud clearly has issues.
 

Lord Noctis

Harbinger of Darkness
AKA
Caius Ballad
So the woman he says he wants to have by side always, whom he'd always strive to make sure she smiles and is happy, the one he's worked so hard to be a hero for and the one he has sex with (because he's a man and she has teh boobies) is his mother.

Yet the woman he actually calls 'mother' is his girlfriend.

Cloud clearly has issues.

I'm not quite sure saying he has issues covers it.
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
Cloud is the Ed Gein of FFVII.

Wouldn't that be Vincent Hellmasker?

hellmasker.jpg
 

jelly

Pro Adventurer
They're doing the thing about trying to use the girl's p.o.v. for Clouds. Just because Tifa and Aerith felt jealous of each other didn't mean that either were actually in a relationship with Cloud. Just because Tifa feels motherly toward Cloud doesn't mean he considers her his mom. I didn't need Nomura's saying to be convinced of Tifa's maternal feelings. Cloud didn't really have a life so he had a lot of growing up to do. It's not weird for Tifa or a girlfriend to feel that way. And they sounded like they forgot that Cloud's descriptions of his reactions was in Tifa's point of view.

I don't know why it doesn't count when Cloud calls Aerith "mother" when he's unconscious. He feels her presence without knowing who's there, and he's being honest about how it feels like.

Oh, yeah, BTW- in Crisis Core, Zack also mutters "mother..." to Aerith after falling through the church roof and being knocked unconscious. Once again, Cloud and Aerith's relationship is being given a direct parallel to a canon romantic couple. I mean, Zack sure as hell didn't think of Aerith as his mother, did he?
That's a good question. Zack called Aerith his mother even when he didn't consider her his mother. I think "mother" is Zack and Cloud's word for describing a woman they are romantically attracted to. Cloud is described as a big kid and his mom also thinks he'll always need a woman to baby him all the time. So maybe Nomura wanted to make Cloud as an inept ungrown man who's only attracted to motherly women.

That's the best way I can answer that question. Either that, or the writers just wanted to put that in to confuse people and that it's not meant to make very much sense like that Sephiroth and Cloud scene in Kingdom Hearts II.

I know that's how many people see it (with good reason), but I still think he's referring to his own mother there. It makes sense when you stop to think that he's surrounded by Aerith and Zack, and that he feels guilty for both of their deaths. Well, Cloud feels guilty about his own mother's death, too. He wasn't able to save her during the Nibelheim fire. He even went to his house to check on her. It makes sense to me that he's talking about his guilt over his own mother's death there.
I think the person is saying that Aerith and Zack have this presence that makes Cloud feel guilty (a presence because I assume they assume Cloud doesn't know it's Aerith and Zack who's there) and that this guilty feeling reminds him more of his mother than Aerith and Zack even though the guilty feeling came from thinking of Aerith and Zack's deaths to begin with and who he doesn't even know is there with him. So I think Aerith and Zack can make Cloud feel guilty about his mother from just being around him when he's unconscious. I think that's what the person was trying to say. I know the way I said it probably doesn't make sense. If anyone can better explain what they were trying to say, please do.

Sorry for the teal dear or whatever people call it lol My posts tend to be long because I'm not good at making short funny posts that are to the point so I at least try to sound smart or something.^_^
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Y hello there Jelly, welcome to the forum ^_^

Good post BTW, just because either girl feels motherly toward Cloud, that doesn't tell us how Cloud feels.
 

Vendel

Banned
Ah the relationship between Cloud and Tifa.

I find it funny how the PN's for years said Tifa was bad for Cloud (probably still do). Then they modified it so that she is his mother of all things. So is she a mother or a horribly delusional slut? Both?

I do find it funny though that they also say Aerith accepts Cloud for who he is and doesn't try and change him (lets ignore the whole Zack persona thing for now). While Tifa tries to change him into something he is not. (Like her mythical knight in shining armor?) The funny part comes from the fact that SE states things like Tifa "supports the mentally weak side of Cloud" and "Tifa has the strength to live in reality unlike Cloud who is dragging the past around". While Aerith represents his failures.

It is almost like SE is saying it's bad for Cloud to dwell on the past. Represented by Aerith and Sephy. And that he needs to focus on his present and future. Represented by Tifa and the kids. This is paralleled in KH2 as well.
 
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Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Like her mythical knight in shining armor
Saving Aerith once and then letting her die right in front of him is clearly what a Knight would do BTW. Because Cloud never saved Tifa, not even once... except for those like 3 times but they don't count.
 

Neo Bahamut

Omnipotent Jackass
AKA
Lithp, Unholy Quadralateral
The big example I remember is what Cait Sith says in the Temple of the Ancients, although that might change depending on affection ratings. I don't think it does, but I don't do much looking into it. There's also what Cloud says about meeting Aerith in the Promised Land at the end of the game, which seems a bit off, if he's supposedly got the girl of his dreams on his arm.

If either of those is not a variable line--which I don't think that the last one even can be--it's one example of a pretty anvillicious message.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Cait Sith's message is a red herring to soften you up before the left hook. The prediction came out wrong. There was no bright future.

The statement at the end of the game has nothing to do with romance. Cloud is TELLING TIFA they might be able to meet Aerith again. Aerith, who is also her friend.
Aerith, who they see above Midgar. Aerith, who he doesn't go look for in favor of moving in with Tifa after saying he felt he could succeed at life after saying he had her by his side now.
 
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Neo Bahamut

Omnipotent Jackass
AKA
Lithp, Unholy Quadralateral
Cait Sith's message is a red herring to soften you up before the left hook. The prediction came out wrong. There was no bright future.

Yes, it is meant that way. However, it's also delivered in the same dramatic fashion as his prediction in the Gold Saucer, which does come true. So, judging from just that, his remark about them "being perfect for each other," is strongly hinted as being correct.

The statement at the end of the game has nothing to do with romance. Cloud is TELLING TIFA they might be able to meet Aerith again. Aerith, who is also her friend.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that. He brings it up completely out-of-the-blue & t's like he doesn't even notice Tifa. There was no scene resolving their romantic tension. All indications up to & including Advent Children are that he was still very much fixated on Aerith. It was not a "just friends" kind of line.

Aerith, who they see above Midgar. Aerith, who he doesn't go look for in favor of moving in with Tifa after saying he felt he could succeed at life after saying he had her by his side now.

What in the bloody Hell are you talking about?
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Yes, it is meant that way. However, it's also delivered in the same dramatic fashion as his prediction in the Gold Saucer, which does come true. So, judging from just that, his remark about them "being perfect for each other," is strongly hinted as being correct.

Cait's infalsifiable prediction at the Gold saucer is meaningless. It has two or three possible meanings, if it has one at all.
And if they're 'perfect for each other,' Cloud doesn't care. At all.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that. He brings it up completely out-of-the-blue & t's like he doesn't even notice Tifa.

Tifa's UO timeline says that Cloud is telling her about the possibility of a meeting, and says the one 'they' plan on meeting.

There was no scene resolving their romantic tension. All indications up to & including Advent Children are that he was still very much fixated on Aerith.

What romantic tension? Boy was goddamn oblivious to her intentions.
And the woman died before Cloud after he nearly killed her himself. He feels guilt over her death. And hell, if he's 'fixated' on her in AC, he's fixated on Zack too.

It was not a "just friends" kind of line.

So you assert.

What in the bloody Hell are you talking about?

I'm talking about the actual events immediately following the game. Events which Cloud himself emphasizes his life now having Tifa alongside him.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Jesus Christ, you're a Clerith too, Neo...?

Number 1, Cait Sith's predictions are stated as being mostly wrong right on page 41 of the FFVII Ultimania text.

Number 2, if Cloud was looking to go to the Promised Land to have a spiritual love affair with the dead chick, he sure as hell didn't act like it in Case of Tifa, when he tells Tifa point blank he's interested in starting a life with her. If that line in the ending was supposed to indicate his pining for Aerith, then it sure as shit makes no sense within the context of the Compilation.

Not to mention the fact that the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania states that Cloud and Tifa's night under the Highwind was the moment they realized their mutual feelings of love for each other.

So no. Please don't play the Clerith game now too, Neo. Please. This is nonsense.
 
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Fighter

Pro Adventurer
What in the bloody Hell are you talking about?
What he means is that if that line says what you say it does, if Cloud wanted to be reunited with his lover, Aerith, then why right after that does he say that his life will be alright as long as he has Tifa? If he wants to be with Aerith why is he blushing telling Tifa he wants to be with her instead?

Number 1, Cait Sith's predictions are stated as being mostly wrong right on page 41 of the FFVII Ultimania text.

Not to mention that one particular prediction is just plain wrong. Cloud and Aerith did not have a bright future, she died, he suffered with guilt.
 
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