LTD Who did Aerith love?

[trash panda]

I did a forum search but I didn't see this topic. There's that whole famous debate about who does Cloud love, but who did Aerith love? Well, here's my answer.

Spoilers, be warned, of course.




If you've ever really, truly loved someone, you'll always hold them in your heart. In good or bad tastes, you'll never forget someone that you actually loved.

For instance...have you ever been in a relationship where you told your partner that you loved them, whether it be an occasional thing, or just a daily chore? Then several months or years down the line, you've completely forgotten about them?

Have you ever known someone, whether it be as a friend, a guardian, or someone that you secretly admired; someone who you loved and never told them so? And several months...or years later...your heart still aches in regret that you never told them how much you loved them.

Back to the topic at hand...
Zack was Aerith's first boyfriend, as she mentioned to Cloud on the playground in FFVII. He was presumably her first love, and her first real friend. Put aside the fact that he's smokin hot, and we all fantasize about him at some point or another. I'm sure that Aerith is not so shallow that she can't look past his amazingly good looks.

When Aerith met Zack, she instantly regarded him as a close friend; a new companion. One of the first things that she recognized about him was his restless, troubled mind. Upon falling through the roof of the church, and onto her flower garden, Zack spoke in his sleep about Angeal's stife, and his yearning to help him.

Put one and one together and you see that Aerith sees him both as a new companion, and as someone in need of support. And then, of course, we see that they do become good friends, and it is easy to assume that they may have actually fallen in love.

It’s also easy to assume so because of their super cute, flirtatious actions in the slums together. And because of the

Spoiler

watered down puppy dog eyes that we see at the end of Crisis Core when Zack dies, and when Aerith realizes that he’s no longer alive.

About the 89 letters that Aerith wrote for Zack…you have to care for someone to write and write, knowing that you’ll probably never get a response. Regardless of whether or not they were in love, it’s highly probable that they did love one another, in some way shape or form…

And as for Aerith and Cloud…of course, she openly admitted that she saw Zack in him. And she undoubtedly saw Cloud as a troubled young man, in exactly the same way that she saw Zack; as someone who needed a friend.

I also don’t think that Aerith is too gullible to have not realized that Cloud was trying to be someone else…someone who used to be a dear friend to her. For as much time that she had spent with Zack, it should be easy for her to recognize his personality…and the struggles of his life.

I personally assume that she loved both of them, and that she wanted desperately to help them through their struggles. Aerith admits that she thinks SOLDIER is jacked up, and that the people are weird and demented and whatnot. So maybe she saw these two individuals as people who just…got caught up in the wrong crowd.

We all think to ourselves…“man, that’s really jacked up. Zack didn’t deserve to die. Cloud didn’t deserve to be experimented on.” Well, I’m sure that Aerith thought so too…

So…ultimately, it doesn’t matter how, or why…but the fact remains that she did care for both of them.

 

[Vendel]

Zack.

 

[Dashell]

Zack.

I don't get why this can't go into the other LTD thread but I do believe she loved Cloud and it's possible she'd even chose him if given the choice, but she's with Zack now and Cloud's with Tifa so

 

[Super Mario]

No. She's with Zack. True Story Bro.

 

[Vendel]

it's possible she'd even chose him if given the choice

Really now? What gives you that idea?

 

[Dashell]

Really now? What gives you that idea?

Case of Lifestream White

 

[Super Mario]

Lifestream white??

 

[Makoeyes987]

Case of Lifestream White

That doesn't say shit about Aerith choosing Cloud over Zack at all, and you know it.

 

[Dashell]

So Zack's always by her side.. and she's calling Cloud her beloved?... and this doesn't prove she loves him more?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Cloud is a symbol of her beloved. Which makes sense as reference to Zack and Cloud also being dear to her. Unless you think Cloud's a symbol of himself completely which is ridiculously redundant and unnecessary. The modifier of him being a symbol is there for a reason.

 

[Dashell]

I don't buy that symbol explanation, sorry. I'm gathering though, that this is what you and others are going with instead of the Third Person Limited one?

No I don't read that to be he's a symbol of Zack, if they wanted to say that they'd have said "Cloud was a symbol of Zack." not "Cloud was her friend and beloved - a symbol of all that was important to her." or whatever it says.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Christ, it's like people forget how to read and shit when it comes to this LTD crap.

Use common sense.

Becky the cat was a gift from my wife. Becky the cat is my pet, and friend - a symbol of what was important to me, and someone to be protected.

Using common sense and grammar, how is a cat a symbol of itself? I want you to answer that, since apparently that somehow makes absolutely no sense. How is a cat, symbolic of a cat? Or a pet symbolic of a pet? Or a friend symbolic of a friend? Please explain this to me.

 

[Dashell]

Where is this symbol of himself thing coming from... ? I never said anything like that. Cloud is a symbol of what's important to Aerith, so yes, technically I guess he IS a symbol of Zack in that sense. But I'm not saying Cloud is a symbol of himself, WTF? Also:

Becky the cat was a gift from my wife. Becky the cat is my pet, and friend - a symbol of what was important to me, and someone to be protected.

The cat is still a pet and still a friend, is it not?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Where is this symbol of himself thing coming from... ? I never said anything like that. Cloud is a symbol of what's important to Aerith, so yes, technically I guess he IS a symbol of Zack in that sense. But I'm not saying Cloud is a symbol of himself, WTF? Also:


The cat is still a pet and still a friend, is it not?

You're not listening to me.

The sentence isn't a stand alone declaration that Cloud is solely her beloved. That's pinkerton half-assed analysis. The sentence implicitly references that Cloud's status as her beloved is contingent on his symbolism "of what was important to her."

Now unless you're unfamiliar with the plot of CC, Cloud is considered to be Zack's "living legacy" or in Japanese, the "proof/symbol of his existence."

It's not hard to understand or accept that Aerith sees Cloud as someone important not just because she cares about him, but also because who he also symbolizes. Her dead boyfriend.

And yes, the cat is still a pet and friend, so how the hell could it be symbolic of itself? How is a cat symbolic of a cat? It can't be symbolic of a cat because it is a cat already.

 

[Dashell]

The sentence isn't a stand alone declaration that Cloud is solely her beloved. That's pinkerton half-assed analysis. The sentence implicitly references that Cloud's status as her beloved is contingent on his symbolism "of what was important to her."

Okay maybe I'm just not following... but before I go any further... are you trying to say the statement says "Cloud is a symbol of her beloved and her friends." ? because I was under the impression that you were at first.

And yes, the cat is still a pet and friend, so how the hell could it be symbolic of itself? How is a cat symbolic of a cat? It can't be symbolic of a cat because it is a cat already.

I KNOW the cat is not a symbol of a cat. Don't you think I know a cat can't be a symbol of a cat? I have 3 cats and none of them symbolize cats

I have NO CLUE where you're getting that I said this from my responses but... I never did... again I say, WTF?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Okay maybe I'm just not following... but before I go any further... are you trying to say the statement says "Cloud is a symbol of her beloved and her friends." ? because I was under the impression that you were at first.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. The statement is a declaration that Cloud is a beloved to Aerith because of who he is and what he represents to her. That's what the entire statement in that sentence is talking about.

The statement isn't just "Cloud is her friend and beloved." The statement is modified to include that Cloud's status as her friend and beloved is a result and apart of him being a symbol of what was important and being worth protecting as a result. Does that not make sense?

I KNOW the cat is not a symbol of a cat. Don't you think I know a cat can't be a symbol of a cat? I have 3 cats and none of them symbolize cats

If you know that, then how are you not "buying" the explicit definition of Cloud being a symbol of what was important to Aerith? Cloud cannot be a symbol of Cloud. Because Cloud already IS Cloud. Likewise he can't be a symbol of a friend or lover by himself.

So what is it that serves as the comparative symbol. Because it sure as hell can't just be himself.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

From 'The Maiden Who Travels the Planet', Xcomp's translation:

"Aerith was in even greater pain when she thought about Cloud.

She also had good feelings towards him. At first, she thought he somehow had some similarities to her first love. Even so, his looks, voice and personality weren't similar and he also made her think of him as a mysterious person... But it soon didn't matter. She loved him much more than her first love. Cloud was her hero and he couldn�ft get away from danger."

and this:

"Aerith... Is that you?"

At first, Aerith couldn't remember whose voice it was because it was so sudden. Panicking, she turned round and saw a nostalgic face she hadn't seen for five years. He was her light taste of first love. He was also now a very dear friend who she hadn't seen ever since she heard nothing from him. He had the same character she saw in Cloud. Zack who had blue eyes that proofed he was in Soldier appeared before her. He had an image inferior to Aerith's solid image.

"Zack! Does that mean you're dead too?" "

and this:

From Aerith to Zack, "Someone who's gotten along with so many girls can never become a lover."

I don't much like these quotes, since I'd really prefer to believe that Zack was Aerith's true great love, but there you go.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Congratulations, you just referenced a work that's not in continuity, in a discussion of what is in said continuity. Good job.

 

[Dashell]

So Cloud symbolizes Aerith's beloved and friends.... just like the cat symbolizes a pet and a friend? Right?

And yes, the cat is still a pet and friend, so how the hell could it be symbolic of itself? How is a cat symbolic of a cat? It can't be symbolic of a cat because it is a cat already.

So Cloud is still her friend and beloved

My take on the sentence is that after the - is a finished thought. Cloud was her friend and beloved and, in addition to that, he also represents anything important to her. With your logic, Cloud can't be her friend because once again, he'd be symbolizing himself, right?

LicoriceAllsorts, I give you an A for effort but as far as I know, Maiden isn't canon. Much like Last Order isn't

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

LicoriceAllsorts, I give you an A for effort but as far as I know, Maiden isn't canon. Much like Last Order isn't

I never know these things! Who decides? Or is the most consistent story canon?

 

[Dashell]

Last order was stated not to be canon. It was a work "outside the compilation" as I remember the quote going. Maiden I'm not sure, I don't think it's even been stated NOT to be canon, but there's like a ton of contradictions in it and none of what goes on in there shows up in any of the time lines, or is ever mentioned again in the Compilation.

 

[Makoeyes987]

So Cloud symbolizes Aerith's beloved and friends.... just like the cat symbolizes a pet and a friend? Right?

Sounds like you're starting to understand now.

So Cloud is still her friend and beloved

I never said he wasn't her friend or beloved. No shit. But that statement says nothing of her liking Cloud more than Zack. All it does is state what we've known already. That Aerith loved Cloud too. Because she got to know him, and also because of his representation of Zack.

My take on the sentence is that after the - is a finished thought. Cloud was her friend and beloved and, in addition to that, he also represents anything important to her. With your logic, Cloud can't be her friend because once again, he'd be symbolizing himself, right?

How the hell is it an afterthought when its a specifier of how exactly he is a symbol of being a friend and beloved? It's what's contingent of his state of being a "friend" and "beloved."

It's not "in addition" its what he IS. Again, do people turn off the reading comprehension when it comes to hearing this stuff?

Cloud was her friend, her beloved — a symbol of what was important to her, and someone to be protected.

His state as a symbol includes but is not limited to him being her friend and beloved. The state of "symbol" is the totality of what Cloud is to her. If you were to knock off the "her friend, her beloved" it would be "Cloud was a symbol of what was important to her, and someone to be protected." That is the complete predicate that explains what the subject (Cloud) is to Aerith. The portions regarding him being her friend and beloved are merely descriptors that specify how Cloud fits into the context of the statement.

 

[Dashell]

It's not "in addition" its what he IS. Again, do people turn off the reading comprehension when it comes to hearing this stuff?

Tres said the same thing, y'know

I never said he wasn't her friend or beloved. No shit

I don't think you understood my original argument

I just meant if she's saying this after she died and possibly after she met Zack because he's supposedly always by her side... she must love Cloud more.

Although, I guess even if Zack was right there and she said it... you're right that it doesn't say "more than Zack" CoLW just seemed very centered around her thoughts about Cloud and that really says something to me. (Yeah I know so was CoLB ) At least you aren't trying to tell me she didn't love Cloud... that's just not right.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Tres said the same thing, y'know

If Tres is saying that, then you need to listen to him. Now I definitely know I'm not crazy.

I don't think you understood my original argument

I just meant if she's saying this after she died and possibly after she met Zack because he's supposedly always by her side... she must love Cloud more.

That's horseshit. Her being with Zack doesn't nullify or extinguish the feelings she felt for Cloud while alive. Her saying that and expressing the simple fact she also loves Cloud and he's symbolic of that love because of who he is and what he represents (Zack's living legacy) if anything, shows how important Zack is to her.

And Zack is always by her side, but in that instance, Zack is not even mentioned or referred to at all. So its not like she's fucking fapping to Cloud while Zack is there in the same room as her. Context, please.

Although, I guess even if Zack was right there and she said it... you're right that it doesn't say "more than Zack" CoLW just seemed very centered around her thoughts about Cloud and that really says something to me. (Yeah I know so was CoLB ) At least you aren't trying to tell me she didn't love Cloud... that's just not right.

Its centered around Cloud, because its about her trying to get to Cloud and warn him. And again, her acknowledging Cloud's importance to her, doesn't invalidate or negate Zack. At all. In the least. She loves Cloud and she loves Zack. I'd say however she loves Zack more because Zack is the true source of her affection, and was her first, and the one she's with now after death. Aerith knows more than anyone that she can't keep pining after the past and she has to let go and move on.

 

[Dashell]

If Tres is saying that, then you need to listen to him. Now I definitely know I'm not crazy.

no I mean Tres said what I said:
http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Northern_Crater/index.php?showtopic=731&view=findpost&p=5539084

Or what I tried to say

I feel that the line was meant to read as the "symbol" segment being in addition to the first part. Or, at the least, with the first part explaining the second.

Really, I don't think Cloud was being called a symbol of Aerith's friend(s) or koibito.

I mean, honestly, he is her koibito ("desired person"). Doesn't mean he's her lover.