LTD Who did Aerith love?

[DrakeClawfang]

First off, I want to say Zack. And now, onto the pointless ranting.


To me, Cloud was more than just a symbol of Zack. Of course, Zack was a major part of Aerith's feelings for Cloud, but after what the entire party went through, I doubt Aerith could see Cloud as a summary of Zack without adding on all the different, personal things they went through. Really, I'd go with what Looneymoon said.

Oh, by the way, thanks for making this thread Howl. I've always wondered why no one thought about Aerith's feelings in relation to the love triangle.


She wrote him 89 letters over the course of 4 years with no response, not to mention she never even saw him. Regardless of how serious she was with him, I'm surprised she didn't give up sooner. Writing that much snail mail requires devotion.

What do you consider "just before FF7?" Zack got the 89th after he beat Genesis, so unless she sent 85 letters between the time he and Cloud got to Banora, I'd say no, letter #4 was sent a month or so after the Nibelheim incident.

Pardon, that was a typo, I meant the *final* letter was sent just before FF7.

 

[shenron118]

Pardon, that was a typo, I meant the *final* letter was sent just before FF7.

Oh, well, never mind then. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[Makoeyes987]

If Zack isn't the reference Cloud symbolizes, then who else logically fits? I'm not aware of any other beloved Aerith had. Zack is the parsimonious choice given the narrative.

Why can't Cloud be seen as symbolizing Aerith's desire to protect her friends? Because that's not what the sentence is saying. Cloud's symbolic status as a beloved, references someone other than himself. I'm not aware of any other people Aerith has dated or felt that closely towards save for Zack.

Cloud is more than just a symbol of Zack. But he is one. He says so out of his own mouth in ACC. He's Zack's living legacy. The proof that he lived. The Compilation has drilled that narrative point several times.

As for Aerith not writing the 90th letter, if you listen to her narration, it's because she's lost hope and doesn't think Zack is around anymore. Humans have limits, and if for over 4 years you wrote to someone and got no response and didn't even know if they were alive or dead, would you keep going indefinitely? The fact Aerith stopped doesn't mean she stopped loving Zack. She just thought that there was no longer a chance the letters would reach him.

But strangely enough, even in FFVII she still wore pink on the off, miraculous chance they would meet up again. Funny that, huh? On one hand she's moving on with Cloud but holding on to the glimmer of hope that one day she'd get to keep her promise of wearing pink again for Zack.

That's not the behavior of a woman who's completely let go and moved on. There's no reconciling that as her loving Cloud more. You could say she loved both, but she's carrying the flame and memory of her ex-boyfriend at the same time. That's not indicative of her letting Zack completey go at all.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

If Zack isn't the reference Cloud symbolizes, then who else logically fits? I'm not aware of any other beloved Aerith had. Zack is the parsimonious choice given the narrative.

Why can't Cloud be seen as symbolizing Aerith's desire to protect her friends? Because that's not what the sentence is saying. Cloud's symbolic status as a beloved, references someone other than himself.

And Aerith didn't love her friends? Sure she was closer to some than to others, but she still cared for them and they cared for her. I get what you're saying about Zack and the living legacy, but I don't agree with it. "I have to protect Cloud [he's a symbol of my friends]" sounds a lot more like Aerith to me, desiring to protect everyone and not just Cloud. The idea that Aerith wants to protect Cloud because he's Zack's legacy....doesn't fit for me. I could see *Zack* doing that for sure, but I just don't see Aerith doing it. It almost sounds like "screw those other losers, Cloud is Zack's legacy, he's the only one that really matters".

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

If Zack isn't the reference Cloud symbolizes, then who else logically fits? I'm not aware of any other beloved Aerith had. Zack is the parsimonious choice given the narrative.

Given that the narrative doesn't call Cloud a symbol of her koibito, that isn't a parsimonious conclusion to draw about that line, though. He's called a symbol of what's important to her.

There are, of course, various ways to read the word "symbol," but I think -- given that we know Cloud himself is not an object unrelated to Aerith's concerns, and given that he's not arbitrarily selected as the symbol -- that it's safest to say the reading should be "representative," "summary" or "example."

Him being called her friend and koibito then explains why he's a symbol of what's important to her.

 

[trash panda]

Aerith doesn't just wear pink, MakoEyes, she's still wearing that dusty old hair ribbon that Zack bought for her. And then when Aerith dies, her legacy is symbolized by even more pink ribbons.

I forgot to mention, Zack's Buster Sword...that's a HUGE symbol as well.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Given that the narrative doesn't call Cloud a symbol of her koibito, that isn't a parsimonious conclusion to draw about that line, though. He's called a symbol of what's important to her.

There are, of course, various ways to read the word "symbol," but I think -- given that we know Cloud himself is not an object unrelated to Aerith's concerns, and given that he's not arbitrarily selected as the symbol -- that it's safest to say the reading should be "representative," "summary" or "example."

Him being called her friend and koibito then explains why he's a symbol of what's important to her.

The thing though, it does call him a symbol of friend and beloved, or at least it's perfectly possible to read the sentence in a way where 'friend and beloved' are part of the 'everything to protect' Cloud symbolizes.
But then again, you and I spoke about all this before, and as I said, it's not terribly important, and as other folks have mentioned, it could represent a snapshot in time before she has managed to reconnect with Zack.

 

[Vendel]

it could represent a snapshot in time before she has managed to reconnect with Zack.

The vibe I get is that she wasn't trying to reconnect with anyone after she died. Not until she sensed him. That awoke all her feelings and worries.

But if SE wanted to show us Aerith over Zack and still trying to be with Cloud. Then they did a piss poor job. Almost like they wanted to show exactly the opposite.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Sephiroth.

He was the only one she let impale her with his "sword".

Trufax.

 

[Vendel]

Sephiroth.

He was the only one she let impale her with his "sword".

Trufax.

Ah but Zacks sword is piercing her flower in the church at the end of ACC.....

 

[Makoeyes987]

The thing though, it does call him a symbol of friend and beloved, or at least it's perfectly possible to read the sentence in a way where 'friend and beloved' are part of the 'everything to protect' Cloud symbolizes.

That's pretty much how I read it, which clearly leads one to think of Zack. Doesn't mean Aerith doesn't care about all her other friends, but honestly, it's not hard to accept or realize Cloud and Zack are probably one of the two closest people to her.

But then again, you and I spoke about all this before, and as I said, it's not terribly important, and as other folks have mentioned, it could represent a snapshot in time before she has managed to reconnect with Zack.

LOL you're right, it really isn't.

And that's a good point too, regarding this being before she reconnected with Zack in the lifestream.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I'd say she loved Zack and also Cloud. The reasons behind her affection for blondie are definitely quirky--she admits herself to being drawn to him due to his similarities to Zack--but those reasons don't negate the emotion. Even after she realized Cloud wasn't entirely himself and that she didn't really know him, she wanted to--because she loved him. There is no question Aerith loved Zack, nor (to me) any real question that she held love for Cloud--on his own, regardless of the initial reasons. However, being an LTD question, I would assume the real question is "who did she love more?" and that, answered by compilation, is Zack.

People can feel free to run a million and one "what ifs" or "could have" scenarios, but the facts remain the same. Zack was and is number one in her heart.

 

[Tennyo]

The cat is still a pet and still a friend, is it not?

Seeing as how the cat was a gift from his wife it would be easy to assume that the cat had become a symbol of their love and unity. His wife herself, basically.

Sure the cat is still a pet and a friend, but that's not all that it is, nor should that fact mean the cat can't be a symbol of something else.

Yay basic English Lit comprehension.

 

[Vendel]

I'd say she loved Zack and also Cloud.

Yes but by the time AC rolls around she is with Zack and is an "affectionate mother" towards Cloud.

Just like all of Avalanche loves Aerith. Cloud included. But Cloud only wants to pet Tifa's kitten.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Seeing as how the cat was a gift from his wife it would be easy to assume that the cat had become a symbol of their love and unity. His wife herself, basically.

Sure the cat is still a pet and a friend, but that's not all that it is, nor should that fact mean the cat can't be a symbol of something else.

Yay basic English Lit comprehension.

As the cat is a gift from his wife, it could be indicative of sexual suggestion...

The thing missing when people dissect CoLW is comprehension and compilation. Taking a piece of the puzzle and trying to make a new picture.

 

[Vendel]

The thing missing when pinkers dissect anything FFVII related is comprehension and compilation. Taking a piece of the puzzle and trying to make a new picture.

Fixed that for you

 

[Tennyo]

As the cat is a gift from his wife, it could be indicative of sexual suggestion...

i c wut u did thar

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Yes but by the time AC rolls around she is with Zack and is an "affectionate mother" towards Cloud.

Just like all of Avalanche loves Aerith. Cloud included. But Cloud only wants to pet Tifa's kitten.

Her "being with" Zack doesn't in anyway negate the romantic interest she had in Cloud. At all. Yes, it serves to point out that her feelings for Zack were stronger than her feelings for Cloud--her being dead is irrelevant for all those CiC troopers out there--but trying to completely remove the very 'non-platonic' affection she had for Cloud and convert it into something completely maternal...that's as wrong as when the Clerith's calling Tifa Cloud's roommate.

And there is never--in my mind, anyway and backed up by compilation--any question in regards to whom Cloud loves. So that's irrelevant to this 'debate'.

 

[Vendel]

Her "being with" Zack doesn't in anyway negate the romantic interest she had in Cloud. At all.

No. Zack and Aerith together along with Aerith's actions towards Cloud are what remove her romantic feelings for him.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

No. Zack and Aerith together along with Aerith's actions towards Cloud are what remove her romantic feelings for him.

But she did have romantic feelings for him prior. That's what FHS is saying.

 

[Vendel]

But she did have romantic feelings for him prior.

Did she now? The real Cloud? The one she wasn't projecting her feelings for Zack on?

Funny that once she dies and Cloud becomes himself we have nothing that suggest current romantic feelings. And she is once again with Zack.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Did she now? The real Cloud? The one she wasn't projecting her feelings for Zack on?

Funny that once she dies and Cloud becomes himself we have nothing that suggest current romantic feelings. And she is once again with Zack.

She thought she loved Cloud, that's all I'm saying.

 

[looneymoon]

Looney, just wanted to say I agree 100% with your take on the symbolism thing. That's how I read it as well. I've never seen it as Cloud representing Zack directly. To me that's far too literal.

I'm actually a little puzzled as to the amount of people reading it that Cloud symbolizes Zack. Maybe indirectly yes, but I'd say normally when discussing symbolism it's usually something concrete that represents something abstract.

Granted I read the story once when it was first put up, but from what I remember the focus was on the earth/saving the planet/helping Cloud/stopping Sephiroth. Just going by the rest of the story, it just seems... i dunno, weird and maybe even irrelevant for Square to stick a Zack reference in there.

Him being called her friend and koibito then explains why he's a symbol of what's important to her.

Yeah, that's how I read it. Though as Ryu said, reading it the other way is not wrong either, it just didn't occur to me given the rest of the story.

it could represent a snapshot in time before she has managed to reconnect with Zack.

That makes the most sense to me.

The reasons behind her affection for blondie are definitely quirky--she admits herself to being drawn to him due to his similarities to Zack--but those reasons don't negate the emotion.

 

[Dashell]

I'm actually a little puzzled as to the amount of people reading it that Cloud symbolizes Zack.

Yeah I dunno where this came from all of a sudden. To me it just seems like a way of getting out of the fact that it says Cloud is Aeriths koibito/lover/monkey person.

Are we not using the third person limited argument anymore?

 

[Strangelove]

Are we not using the third person limited argument anymore?

I guess you'll have to ask the hive mind to find out what our collective opinion on the matter is

Are they two mutually exclusive arguments? I've probably missed something since I cba keeping up with all this, but I don't see why you can't have both the argument/factual observation about the writing style and this interpretation on that line at the same time.