Man, a big beef I have with this game are two things...

[Cat Rage Room]

The war with Wutai being confined to the first few minutes of the game, and the other SOLDIERS getting so little fight time. The only time we really see the SOLDIERS do their thang is when they're laying face down on the pavement somewhere or standing around.

It sucks that Zack is a lone wolf all of the time; it would have been awesome to see him in a squad or something, not only to better display the brotherhood between the rank and file SOLDIER, but to better display Zack's fighting prowess and give him (and the player) something to compare to.

 

[Max Payne]

inb4crying about opinions

 

[Makoeyes987]

M.O.G. you make no damn sense. The game was perfect and I am offended by your opinion. Go to hell and quit criticizing. If you think it was so bad, make your own game. Oh wait YOU CAN'T.

Crisis Core was made for us fans. It wasn't made for critics. It's not for you. So shut up.

Spoiler: .

Yeah, you're probably right...that would've been a good idea.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Er...so what's your point exactly?

Not that I think you're wrong... I'd have thought about those things had I cared. But I just kind of figured that since the game was mostly in Zack's POV, things would really be focused only on those happening to and around him. Since Zack wasn't directly involved in the Wutai war besides the first few minutes of the game (I think), SE didn't bother showing it. You do get mails on updates though.

I agree about the other SOLDIERs thing though. I kind of wanted to see how the SOLDIER system really worked, but I barely saw any of that. What I got from CC, however, was that SOLDIERs tend to take on missions alone (like Zack having all those missions to himself, and that 3rd class SOLDIER you're helping who seems to actually be doing his missions alone too). So...yeah, SOLDIERs tend to be "lone wolves", unless they'e trainees or with a mentor or something.




Or IDK.

 

[S and G]

Mako, that was fucking raw!!!

Anyway, I think M.O.G. has a point. I really enjoyed CC, but it never quite lived up to the promise of fully exposing all there was to expose about SOLDIER and the Shinra hierarchy. At the first mission at Tamblin, Zack (a rookie 2nd) is left to take care on a fortress head on by himself. They could maybe have changed the script slightly and incorporated Angeal running about as well. (Obv the psp's power would not have allowed that, but you get the idea). It would have been good to actively fight alongside Sephiroth or Cloud or Tseng. But what MOG said is right. Other than discussions at HQ and emails from Kunsel and Luxiere, there is no real interation with other SOLDIERs. Pity. And I was really disappointed that the only reference Yishay and Sebastian got was that 3 and a half sec DMW. They could have used that as break from the story; showing his friendship with SOLDIERs outwith Kunsel and Angeal.

But perhaps that's the point...SOLDIERs are supposed to be lone wolves.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

M.O.G. you make no damn sense. The game was perfect and I am offended by your opinion. Go to hell and quit criticizing. If you think it was so bad, make your own game. Oh wait YOU CAN'T.

Crisis Core was made for us fans. It wasn't made for critics. It's not for you. So shut up.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Not that I think you're wrong... I'd have thought about those things had I cared. But I just kind of figured that since the game was mostly in Zack's POV, things would really be focused only on those happening to and around him. Since Zack wasn't directly involved in the Wutai war besides the first few minutes of the game (I think), SE didn't bother showing it. You do get mails on updates though.

But that's only the case because Square wrote it that way. Understandably, Zack's age and the time of the war prevents him from being displayed BATTLE HARDENED VETERAN, but he could have easily been deployed to Wutai before he did. He was already Second Class, and he's been to Wutai, what, once during the entire war? They could have easily wrote in him being in quite a few Wutai battles.

I agree about the other SOLDIERs thing though. I kind of wanted to see how the SOLDIER system really worked, but I barely saw any of that. What I got from CC, however, was that SOLDIERs tend to take on missions alone (like Zack having all those missions to himself, and that 3rd class SOLDIER you're helping who seems to actually be doing his missions alone too). So...yeah, SOLDIERs tend to be "lone wolves", unless they'e trainees or with a mentor or something.

You would think, except for that fact that SOLDIER operates in units, and when you do see piles of dead SOLDIERS around, they're in groups. If SOLDIER really does operate alone, than thats also something else I don't really dig. Fine, so Zack took out Fort Tamblin by himself (which I thought was silly, the final battle should have been much larger scale), but it was silly that Shinra expected him to.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Silly....

Dear Mog
Well, if we are going to criticise a game, or our glorious Square Enix, for being silly.... where would we stop? Delightfully silly, however.
I agree with you, though, and I agree with IAmNotMe. Either SOLDIERs are trained to operate individually (and I did always get that impression) or SE should have shown more of them working together, eg in missions. It wouldn't have been that hard to program. But it does seem that, at most, they get sent out in pairs. I got the impression that the generic army dudes (to borrow a phrase) did the bulk of the actual fighting, and SOLDIER were a bit like a secret weapon (except not secret). But aside from the Wutai War there aren't actually a lot of wars going on - it's more guerrilla and terrorist stuff, or tracking down stolen items and weapons etc... than pitched battles, and for that you don't need big platoons (except to take our Zack, of course.)

Oh, and no platoon can operate if some of its members are free to opt out at will, as 1sts are in SOLDIER. Since Sephiroth, Zack etc... have the right to turn down missions, this strongly suggests that only oen or two are ever needed.

I always wondered just how many SOLDIERS there were, altogether.

But to insist that it makes sense in the reality that is OUR world may be asking too much....

 

[ForceStealer]

Well there are significantly less after the mass desertion. But even so I would imagine there aren't all that many. I never got the impression there was a SOLDIER Army, they're like Navy SEALs or something (which operate in squads, I know). A very very elite unit of whom I wouldn't be surprised if there were less than one hundred. But Crisis Core also portrays some chicken-shit 3rd Classes that don't appear to have any place in SOLDIER, so who knows.

And Deepground kinda flies in the face of all that as there appear to be hundreds of Deepground SOLDIERs.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Well, if anyone is curious to know, there are about 2,000 Navy SEALS presently enlisted.

As an aside, I wish there was some sort of way to compare the strength of the different SOLDIER Classes. How strong is say, a 3rd Class compared to someone else?

 

[ForceStealer]

Well I know game mechanics are tricky to go by, but you fight 3rds in the Shinra building near the beginning of 7 when AVALANCHE is around level...13-18? (that's a guess) And Sephiroth immediately before the Nibelheim incident was pegged at level 50, which was supposed to be leaps and bounds over all the other SOLDIERs. (It's also true that Cloud is placed at level 1 and he's a 1st Class...)

EDIT(found my strategy guide): According to the Bestiary, the SOLDIER: 3rd enemy is level 13 and the SOLDIER: 1st is level 44.
The SOLDIER: 2nd though is only level 5, because you fight them in Junon when you could be using characters you don't usually, but it could be safe to say they're in between at the late 20s, early 30s.

I know that doesn't solidly answer anything, but its a bit of the scaling that took place in the game.

 

[Celes Chere]

I also agree that Moggy has a point. A very good point, actually. And I wouldn't say Crisis Core is necessarily a good GAME. It was more like a movie. In the case of it being a movie, it was EXCELLENT. The game play was dull, though the hard mode missions were at least a bit more difficult. Speaking of missions, those were redundant and annoying, but terribly addictive sadly. xD

 

[Tetsujin]

Comparing "strength" of the different classes doesn't make a lot sense. A 3rd could be as "strong" and skilled as a 1st, but just didn't go through enough successful missions yet.

 

[Makoeyes987]

A SOLDIER's rank is based on their combat efficiency, capabilities and strength, so it wouldn't make sense for a 3rd to be as strong as a 1st...otherwise, they'd be in 1st to begin with.

 

[Tetsujin]

No, you dumbass, because they would have to prove their abilities during various missions first.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Uh...

SOLDIERs are ranked from 1st, to 2nd, to 3rd according to combat efficiency, and included within 1st is Sephiroth, the figure ranked highest of all.

***Lifestream Relation 3: SOLDIER*** (005.5C)
Shin-Ra's elite soldiers. The Turks scout to gather those who would be capable
of handling being injected with Jenova's cells and exposed to mako; those who
are gain a massive artificial increase in strength and ability. It is not
common to impose this procedure on one against their will, as the resulting
changes to their mind and body can be large, and they must be able to bear the
experiment's process in order to become a SOLDIER.

Those who are selected to become these elite soldiers will join SOLDIER in
either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Class, as based on their capabilities.

I have no idea what you're talking about. SOLDIERs are placed in a rank based on their capabilities and combat prowess.

 

[Tetsujin]

Fuck off with your stupid Ultimania quotes you fucking nerd.

I'm talking about them having to prove their fucking combat prowess first before they can be put in any class.
I'm sure they don't have some sort of foolproof method to decide whether one is to be put into 1st class immediately after joining SOLDIER, unless they've already observed them in combat mode, or even fought against them themselves (Turks or whatever).

So there might be people recruited into 3rd class who are theoretically awesome enough to be 1st class, but have to prove it first by showing their awesomeness during various missions because they haven't had the chance to show it before.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I have no idea what you're talking about. SOLDIERs are placed in a rank based on their capabilities and combat prowess.

But considering that a SOLDIER can get promoted to a higher rank, it's not set in stone. Surely those combat capabilities are tested somehow. The real military is somewhat similar, some people start off their military careers as just regular old Privates, and some are tough enough to star off as Navy SEALS, but still, right?

 

[Makoeyes987]

They prove their rank by undertaking a virtual reality test, as seen in the opening. Which allows them to demonstrate their combat prowess and strength and thus earn their rank. They also take this test to see if their worthy of a promotion.

Missions aren't just the factor. You have to actually prove your strength. If your strength is 1st Class, then you get put in 1st Class, and thus take 1st Class missions.

Virtual Reality System

Equipment developed to allowed test subject to interact with prepared data in a virtual environment. Any variety of virtual simulations can be created, all sorts of monsters for example, so it is mostly used for ShinRa Army training and special experiments. However, since the wounds one receives when using it are real, there is danger involved with its usage.

Now, the goggles that Zack wore in the opening of the game, those were equipped to collect data from directly from his body. Thus, because all of the details of the of the training are able to be measured in real time, they must be worn during SOLDIER Class promotion tests.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I have no problem with someone being put in a rank that befits them, that's what the real military does (to a degree) what I'm saying is, its not set in stone. If someone joins SOLDIER at 3rd Class, but over time they develop the skills, strength, and leadership that befits a 1st Class, they'll eventually get there over time. It would suck to be stuck 3rd Class for years and years when you eventually be badass enough to be first.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Of course its not set in stone, because you can advance

Case in point: Zack.

 

[Celes Chere]

Fuck off with your stupid Ultimania quotes you fucking nerd.

WIN. XD

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I assumed they all started as 3rds and got promoted up the ranks in acordance with ability, length of service, and need. For example, I always kind of took it as read that the immediate reason Zack got promoted when he did was because the loss of Genesis and Angeal and the mass defections had left the upper echelon looking kinda thin.
Seriously, I have only played this game once and have not actually finished it - though I've watched someone who has - because (sadly) I have become addicted to the missions and now aim to complete them all. So... just how many first class SOLDIERs do we ever know by name? Zack, Angeal, Sephiroth, Genesis... anyone else? Kunsel? Essai and Sebastian were 2nd class, to the best of my knowledge.
Sorry for rambling; very jetlagged. Must go play mind-numbingly boring Dokepon Kingdom with 12 year old. Bye

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yishay, and Sebastian were SOLDIER 1st Class as well. And Luxiere became a SOLDIER 1st Class at the end.

I don't think that was the only reason Zack was promoted but I definitely think it was a contributing factor.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

By the way, when I was asking how strong SOLDIERS were by class relatively, I mean in comparison to normal people and other fighters we've seen in the FF7 universe.