More Female Main Protagonists In Final Fantasy

[Splintered]

Edit: Splintered, I wrote this before I saw your videos. They're made by someone much more knowledgeable than me and they pretty much address everything, so, I'm done here. And thanks for posting them, I got a lot out of them.

Just going to say that Extra Credits is seriously one of my favorite videogame analysis web series and I really think people should watch them. Especially if any talk of videogames interests you.

Even if it's not the gender issue or whatever- they have tons of awesome videos ranging from videogame music, why the West dominated FPS, and choice in games.

Everything they have to say is informative and interesting.

And so my post is not off topic:

Yeah,maybe they should use more older women characters as well.Mainly I have seen lots of older men characters while older women charactes are often in the background.By older women I mean females over 40.It would be fun seeing more middle aged/elderly women who can also kick butt.

You know when these topics pop up, I think what bothers the people who argue against topics like these aren't that they want diversity.

People are worried about checklists trumping actual character creation. Where developers are more interested in checking off aspects of characters rather than saying "hey, lets make six interesting characters and see how they bounce off each other."

It's not that having a female main character that is feminine, and a female villain, and a older female bothers people here, it's the fear that they are mandated and forced in, sometimes at the exclusion of other things. Honestly I think the fear is unfounded, you can be totally conscious of your diversity issues and have it seam naturally into it if you're a good writer.

And that's all what the majority of people want here. Good writing.

 

[jazzflower92]

It is true that Kratos is not sexy.

But I think it's undeniable that Square are pretty good at designing male characters who are quite definitely eye candy for the ladies. In fact Japanese designers seem to be better than western ones at designing male characters who appeal physically to women. All us yaoi shippers and drooling Turk fans can't just be wrong, can we? If only they'd all gone shirtless in ACC, what an awesome movie that would have been!!

I'm definitely (or defiantly) expecting some disgreement on this IMHO.

As a Sephiroth fan girl I can to agree to that.They have can make Sephiroth seem so bishonen but also be so manly as well.Yeah,Sephiroth I think is the poster guy for sexy villians by Square.And man his pre-insane personality just draws me in even more.

 

[looneymoon]

Now that I know what you're describing, I think I misunderstood you before. As you were using "exploitative" earlier, you don't necessarily mean it's negative to use sexuality for profit, aye?

Not necessarily no! I mean, it can be and has historically been used in a negative way, but I don't think displays of sexuality are inherently bad. It's more about the danger of boxing in a woman only by what she means sexually, which is something pervasive media that does appeal to sexuality is very guilty of. A woman isn't a woman because she's a woman - she's a woman because boobs because ass because her body is welcome for anyone to consume. Sexuality is not what's harmful when it comes to these things. It's about power and control.

I mean, I'm a huge fan of cult/grindhouse type cinema and to me that's an example of how sexual provocativeness is taken to extreme offensiveness as a way to subvert the whole structure. I brought up Bayonetta for that reason as well. While I haven't actually played that game, it seems to be trying to do to the video game industry the same things like Stephanie Rothman films do to the film industry.

I have to wonder, though, to what extent the medium actually treats them differently. I won't say it doesn't, but it seems to me that the designs of most in-game male avatars could be argued to be fanservice as well. Even old-as-dirt characters like Edgemaster and Heihachi could make somebody's Stacked and Packed calendar.

Is getting to control such avatars seen as being as much a fanservice for dudes who get to fantasize about being these characters as the hot chicks put on display in-game are? If so, is it not the public who brings the double-standard to the table when they argue that character designs in games are offensive and exploitative because female gamers don't have characters who look like them to play as?

I think there is definitely a limitation as to how the male gender is defined by the media (which is, as stated, run by men for men), particularly in gaming. There's a good documentary that explores the concept called "The Tough Guise." It's available for free, but it was made in the 90s so it's a little dated, but the ideas behind it are still relevant, especially in the gaming community. Males too suffer under the patriarchy that boxes in their own gender, even if it is men doing to each other (the same way women can harm other women). The enforcement of dominant, even violent sexuality in males is harmful to the gender, and is as anti-feminist and exploitative as the super sexy video game chick.

It's not really a man vs woman thing as Splintered said, it's more understanding how these gender identities are imagined through how they're portrayed in things like video games. Capitalist-fueled media especially expects people to buy into these construction en masse, and expects us to reject them en masse as well. But things like gender isn't a conglomerate, it's a very personal, individually-defined thing.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Splintered, I find it very funny that you brought up Tsunade from Naruto and then JazzFlower92 said she thought more older women would be a good idea... then again, plot and good character development are more important in that series then anything else.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It's more about the danger of boxing in a woman only by what she means sexually, which is something pervasive media that does appeal to sexuality is very guilty of.

...

Males too suffer under the patriarchy that boxes in their own gender, even if it is men doing to each other (the same way women can harm other women).

I think these are the concerns we can all agree on that usually get overlooked amongst the claims that these media portrayals are bad for us because they're not realistic. We hear that and we call bullshit, because every day we see very real people who very realistically look like those characters.

And not just celebrities. These are normal people we see at the mall. At the gas station. At work. We know people can and do look like that. The rest of us often can't, though. lol We just don't have the genetic blueprints that would ever let us look that way.

Knowing that these people exist, we call b.s. on these "Be yourself!" talking points and obsess with what we can't be.

And if the people fighting negative perceptions of self-image really want to be effective, they need to stop using phrases like "Real people don't look like that" and "Those figures are unattainable." They need to be honest -- some real people do look that way, and those figures are attainable if you come from the appropriate genetic stock.

They need to cut the crap and be honest: you can't look that way, even though others can and do. Accept what you were given and make the best of that. You've got nothing else to work with. Now go enjoy your ice cream (in moderation).

 

[jazzflower92]

Splintered, I find it very funny that you brought up Tsunade from Naruto and then JazzFlower92 said she thought more older women would be a good idea... then again, plot and good character development are more important in that series then anything else.

I remember she is over 50 but she uses gengistu to make herself look like she is still in her 20's.I kinda of gotten away from Naruto and switched to One Piece for many reasons.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^Funny, I did the opposite...

@Tres: Thank you for bringing this up. One of the insecurities I have is that people will assume that because I'm skinny, I'm anorexic. I've also had random people ask me if I model and where I got my hair coloring done. I find it very unfortunate that people have a preconceived idea of what is natural and what is fake and that if someone conforms to the ideal of beauty, they must have faked it.

 

[jazzflower92]

^^Funny, I did the opposite...

@Tres: Thank you for bringing this up. One of the insecurities I have is that people will assume that because I'm skinny, I'm anorexic. I've also had random people ask me if I model and where I got my hair coloring done. I find it very unfortunate that people have a preconceived idea of what is natural and what is fake and that if someone conforms to the ideal of beauty, they must have faked it.

Yeah,stereotypes are hurtful.

 

[Cthulhu]

Who here said Kratos wasn't sexy? Your lier, and I say that as a straight male person dude, . He's also the only video game character (barring porn games) that bones two women in a minigame. Or well, technically, grunts while he and his womenz try to knock a vase off of a cupboard while the player spams a button.

Where was I going again? Oh right. Stereotypes suck, people suck.

 

[jazzflower92]

Who here said Kratos wasn't sexy? Your lier, and I say that as a straight male person dude, . He's also the only video game character (barring porn games) that bones two women in a minigame. Or well, technically, grunts while he and his womenz try to knock a vase off of a cupboard while the player spams a button.

Where was I going again? Oh right. Stereotypes suck, people suck.

Yeah,thats why I follow the teaching of if they are not making that stuff why not make it yourself.It is why I visit TV Tropes reguarly on how to make good stories and characters.Tropes Are Not Bad but they are not always good.Its how its executed which will make these characters beloved to the audience years/decades after their games are released.You become a icon character by appleaing to something that touches the people who have played the game.You are cheering for this character and you want them to win.

 

[Danseru-kun]

I can definitely agree that there should be more older females around, kicking ass, taking names, and so on. My mother-in-law just turned 44 and can be one of the biggest bamfs (also a total milf, but that's another story) ever.

That's one of the things that pissed me off about "Soul Calibur V" -- most of the female cast we had always known was retired and replaced with younger versions, or replaced in other ways.

Agree with this! I'm frustrated with Talim, I mean I wanted to see a grown-up version of her. But I guess they don't want to change her loli image so they removed her ;_; She's the only Filipino game character and she's gone.

Tekken too. Anna and Nina can't age, they have to go to sleep. Jun had to disappear. Michelle had to be replaced by Julia. Women can't be old in videogames.

Though I'm happy they added Jun in TTT2 and probably for the first time a fighting game had a woman in her 40's still kicking ass.

 

[jazzflower92]

Agree with this! I'm frustrated with Talim, I mean I wanted to see a grown-up version of her. But I guess they don't want to change her loli image so they removed her ;_; She's the only Filipino game character and she's gone.

Tekken too. Anna and Nina can't age, they have to go to sleep. Jun had to disappear. Michelle had to be replaced by Julia. Women can't be old in videogames.

Though I'm happy they added Jun in TTT2 and probably for the first time a fighting game had a woman in her 40's still kicking ass.

Yeah,why can't old women be shown as major characters as well.Plus it would be fun seeing some cool old lady kicking butt and taking names as well.Yeah,thats whats fustrating that the message it seems to be if you are over 40 you are not able to be in the game when old guys have been starring in fighting games since forever.I mean that is blatant double standards.

 

[Cthulhu]

Random poast, but I can only recall one older~ish important female character that doesn't look like a 20-some year old (Katherine Marlowe, Uncharted)

 

[Fangu]

Another one - Elise Riggs has been in all of the SSX games, and she's 33 I believe in the last edition. Which isn't 'old' (or, it depends on who you ask ofc) but it's still a decent age.

But generally I agree that there are far too few female leads in games, and I think it boils down to the marked not willing to risk losing money, because they believe that most guys that see a girl on the cover think it's 'a chick game'. (And, unfortunately, quite often it is, some might say.) Marketing, demographics, money; that's what it's all about. This is just one of those things that has to take its time. When the producers realize that guys don't mind playing female heroines, even if they're not all tits and ass, there will be more games.

 

[jazzflower92]

Another one - Elise Riggs has been in all of the SSX games, and she's 33 I believe in the last edition. Which isn't 'old' (or, it depends on who you ask ofc) but it's still a decent age.

But generally I agree that there are far too few female leads in games, and I think it boils down to the marked not willing to risk losing money, because they believe that most guys that see a girl on the cover think it's 'a chick game'. (And, unfortunately, quite often it is, some might say.) Marketing, demographics, money; that's what it's all about. This is just one of those things that has to take its time. When the producers realize that guys don't mind playing female heroines, even if they're not all tits and ass, there will be more games.

Plus I think there should be games also catering to the female democraphic as well.Not just the cutesy stuff but making games that female gamers truly do like as well.I mean teen girls like gaming as much as teen boys.

 

[Alex Strife]

For that, they need female designers. Because if you asked me to design something that catered to the female demographic, I would implode.


Also, joke part: You women are so complicated, so how do you expect other women or even men to design a game you like?

 

[jazzflower92]

For that, they need female designers. Because if you asked me to design something that catered to the female demographic, I would implode.


Also, joke part: You women are so complicated, so how do you expect other women or even men to design a game you like?

That is what make us girls so fun to write about.In that case I can I say its great to be a woman.I also think with female protagonists there could also be underused ideas that could be utilized as well.It worked for My Little Pony FIM why can't it work for the gaming world.Don't make all the females one type of girl because girls as a gender are diverse set of personalities and appaerance.

 

[Alex Strife]

I'm not sure I understand your answer in relation to what I said.

It's not about "making all the females one type of girl". It's NOT specifically about women. You just don't make all characters the same type anyway, right? Who would carbon-copy all the females?

Males have a diverse set of personalities and appearances as well. I just do not see how females are different from males, in this.

 

[looneymoon]

related

 

[Lex]

I'm sorry about this post in advance purely because I haven't read this thread so most of my points have probably been covered.

Hopefully gaming is moving forward in this respect. I recently played through an amazing game called "Gravity Rush" in which the main character is a female. The other main protagonist is also female.

There's still a ways to go (Assassin's Creed now has a female assassin but it's not a "main" game) but at least progress is being made. I'm still amazed by the fact that I was able to have a gay/bi Shepard in Mass Effect 3 with two different characters and it was a complete non-issue in the in-game world, which was nice and made the experience more immersive for me.

IDK, maybe it's because I'm not a 14 year old hormone bucket that's obsessed with women, but the sex of the lead character never determines my enjoyment of the game. There are plenty of guys who prefer playing with a Female Shepard and vice versa, I think it's just going to take the big companies to see that.