New forum for member feedback

[Ryushikaze]

Well like I said, if it was issues between members, then the members concerned should be allowed to view and post to resolve the issue with the mods. If nobody is satisfied with that, then theres nothing stopping them going public.

I certainly agree that for the new forum, the correspondence should be made public if the member wants it public.

But the old system is still in place, its not like anything is being taken away here. Nobody is being forced to use the new forum.

Yeah, it's just another option.

And I'm right in thinking, if I had a complaint about Fangs that you would contact her and she would also have access to the forum to respond right?

At the moment, we don't yet have a member to member function in place. I agree, however, that such a use for the forum is just as good.

As for why we went ahead and created it, because it took all of five minutes to do forumwise and we wanted a working prototype so folks could see what they were getting into.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Eh, no.

You were told several times you were banned for flaming another member.

From one of several PMs I sent you on FFOF:

I knew exactly why I was banned I merely disputed to you and staff that my banning wasn't covered within the rules at the time and was given a piss poor response of "It was decided as a majority, then was followed by your post back to me detailing how even though it wasn't in the rules it was the way it's always been."

THEN

two days later aaron changed the rules.

My point in this isn't bringing up my banning it'sthat I only had contact with you.
Even you yourself posted that you were pissed off that no-one else had got back to me regarding my complaints.

I just think it's stupid expecting members to air their complaints to one staff member for him/her to post it for the ENTIRITY of staff to discuss for that ONE mod to get back to the member and say "We had a discussion"

 

[Cookie Monster]

I knew exactly why I was banned I merely disputed to you and staff that my banning wasn't covered within the rules at the time and was given a piss poor response of "It was decided as a majority, then was followed by your post back to me detailing how even though it wasn't in the rules it was the way it's always been."

THEN

two days later aaron changed the rules.

My point in this isn't bringing up my banning it'sthat I only had contact with you.
Even you yourself posted that you were pissed off that no-one else had got back to me regarding my complaints.

I just think it's stupid expecting members to air their complaints to one staff member for him/her to post it for the ENTIRITY of staff to discuss for that ONE mod to get back to the member and say "We had a discussion"

Did you try adding any of them on MSN? o_O

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Isn't this exactly what you argued AGAINST when Dacon said staff could do that?

Also my net time is sporattic as fuck and I mostly pmed you while at work where I don't have msn access.
Thirdly, I think the majority of staff are incompetent so......yeah.

 

[Octo]

Implying that what people want is to just make mods their whipping boys. Using rare and extreme instances as examples of how to run a forum is pretty foolish. You'll find that most people are perfectly capable of being civil and reasonable. And the mods have to be able to accept criticism and respond accordingly. People don't like being ignored and dismissed, and so sometimes lash out. The mods aren't completely without fault, and saying things like this comes across as having a lack of faith in members (imo). The times where things have gotten out of hand are so few and far between that it seems irrational to me to use them as examples.

I agree that it's a two way street, and of course the Mod's aren't without fault, but I'm just making an observation based on what has happened in the past, just the same as people are cynical because of mod's past behavior/attitudes.

Every member here is capable of being civil and reasonable, but when shit gets heated it often goes out of the window, and yeah in some ways thats understandable when people get frustrated.

If a member has a complaint and wants to get that sorted quietly then they should have the option to do that, and if not they can make a public thread.

 

[Celes Chere]

But the old system is still in place, its not like anything is being taken away here. Nobody is being forced to use the new forum.

That's not the problem for me. I am seeing people already have an issue with the old system, and this new option doesn't really change or help anything.

 

[Joker]

But if someone wants something to be public theres nothing stopping them making that thread, this is just affording that level of privacy to those who want it.

And what if someone makes a public thread and staff decides to make it private or even just deletes it entirely?

And before you respond, it's happened before.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Isn't this exactly what you argued AGAINST when Dacon said staff could do that?

What? What are you talking about?

Also my net time is sporattic as fuck and I mostly pmed you while at work where I don't have msn access.
Thirdly, I think the majority of staff are incompetent so......yeah.

Wait, so are you asking for Corel Prison?

Actually, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to give temporary banned members access to this section. That way they at least can communicate with us if they think there's a problem.

 

[Sheva Alomar]

If the staff section isn't going to be gotten rid of, at least make it visible for everyone. There's nothing to hide and only staff will be allowed to post in the report/infraction threads.

I'm just gonna post this again.

 

[Cookie Monster]

And what if someone makes a public thread and staff decides to make it private or even just deletes it entirely?

And before you respond, it's happened before.

I don't believe we've ever deleted anything. Ever. I know someone moved a thread into the Donator section to prevent drama, which was a piss poor decision and we told him to move it back.

 

[Tifabelle]

I agree that it's a two way street, and of course the Mod's aren't without fault, but I'm just making an observation based on what has happened in the past, just the same as people are cynical because of mod's past behavior/attitudes.

Every member here is capable of being civil and reasonable, but when shit gets heated it often goes out of the window, and yeah in some ways thats understandable when people get frustrated.

If a member has a complaint and wants to get that sorted quietly then they should have the option to do that, and if not they can make a public thread.

Yeah, making an observation based on rare instances. People are cynical because nothing has changed. That's why people are frustrated. Because it feels like certain things have gone unchanged or ignored. And I think a lot of the negative feelings toward this new forum is an off-shoot of that.

I'm not in favor nor outright against the new forum, which is why I haven't said much in this thread. I'm just saying it seems pointless to me. I understand the thought behind it, and I can even understand why people might like it. But making a "secret" forum when people have openly voiced concerns about staff being too secret is not the way to go. And it still doesn't change the fact that some people feel less than confident in the way mods handle situations.

 

[Octo]

And what if someone makes a public thread and staff decides to make it private or even just deletes it entirely?

And before you respond, it's happened before.

Welp, in that instance - if it happened to me I'd let all of my friends know about it and we'd kick up a massive stink, which has also happened before I'm sure.

I don't think theres anyone here......besides a certain banned member who shall remain nameless (geddit?)...who doesn't have friends to back them up.

Edit@ Tifabelle: Yeah, it isn't going to please everybody clearly and obviously some members still have issues with how things are done, so that will still be an ongoing process I guess. But for the people who will get some benefit from it, thats no bad thing.

 

[Joker]

Actually, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to give temporary banned members access to this section. That way they at least can communicate with us if they think there's a problem.

Take out the temporary and I really like this idea.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

What? What are you talking about?



Wait, so are you asking for Corel Prison?

Actually, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to give temporary banned members access to this section. That way they at least can communicate with us if they think there's a problem.

Dacon stated previously that if staff really want to communicate on matters privately then they can always talk to one another on msn.
You then posted afterwards saying this isn't always convenient/possible due to time differences and such.

My point is, you can't expect members to msn one another if staff aren't willing to do the same thing.


Secondly a corel prison isn't a bad idea.


Thirdly, my point at the beginning and even now is still that the lines of communication between staff and members is shit.
It's one member getting one mod's response while ALL the mods gets to throw their 2 cents in on the matter within the staff section and the member doesn't get to see anything that was said regarding their complaint.

 

[Tifabelle]

I don't think theres anyone here......besides a certain banned member who shall remain nameless (geddit?)...who doesn't have friends to back them up.

The thing is... it's not about friends or not friends. I've stood up for plenty of people who aren't my friends before - not limited to Username, L, & Misty, to name a few. If I have more friends, I have more backup? No, it's about making sure the right thing is being done for ALL members, not just friends.

As an example, if a member who wasn't my friend had their thread deleted, and I felt it was unfair, I'd most certainly have something to say about it, and would want to know about it. It's how we exist as a community that is the focus.

 

[Joker]

Welp, in that instance - if it happened to me I'd let all of my friends know about it and we'd kick up a massive stink, which has also happened before I'm sure.

I don't think theres anyone here......besides a certain banned member who shall remain nameless (geddit?)...who doesn't have friends to back them up.

And then that gives you and your group of friends the stigma of being dramawhores and stirrers of shit. XD

Idk. From what I've observed in my time here, particularly the last...ehhhh, maybe 15 months?...my faith in the moderation team is at an all-time low, tbh. I mean, to further the point - here we are having this discussion, and, what, 4 people on staff have poked their noses in with something to say (Aaron, Road, Ryu, Tennyo)? Wait, Adri makes five. Meanwhile, the other *three* admins and uh...(Force, Hito...) two (?) smods have bupkis to share on the subject? That's half the team, and MOST of it is all Ryu and Road doing the talking. =/

@Road: yeah, you have (maybe not you personally, but it has happened)

 

[Ryushikaze]

L, your ban was always covered under the rules. The changes to the rules were clarifications on how we had been operating for quite some time, not notable changes to them. In your case, it was especially irrelevant since you were told you were going to face a suspension at your next offense, period.

Also, Aaron didn't change the rules. He was just the person who edited the post. All of the admins and moderators agreed that it was necessary to make clarifications to the rules.

Also, Adri, making reports and infractions publicly visible completely goes against the idea of those things being even remotely confidential.

Teef, if the current system isn't working and this isn't helping, what would? Seriously, toss us ideas.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Take out the temporary and I really like this idea.

Nah, that just gives Username and Words of Ivory a chance to make thread after thread after thread. There's no point if their permanently banned.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

L, your ban was always covered under the rules. The changes to the rules were clarifications on how we had been operating for quite some time, not notable changes to them. In your case, it was especially irrelevant since you were told you were going to face a suspension at your next offense, period.

Eh, no I wasn't.

 

[Joker]

As an example, if a member who wasn't my friend had their thread deleted, and I felt it was unfair, I'd most certainly have something to say about it

This. Although I'm sure that everyone can agree that my agreeing with this is hardly surprising.

Road: okay, so they create a thread in a private section that only they and the moderators can see. What's the problem? Less work running around the forum deleting stuff and handing out infractions for people being dicks to them, etc.

 

[Cookie Monster]

@Road: yeah, you have (maybe not you personally, but it has happened)

Deleted stuff? Can you give me any details? PM me if necessary. I will pounce on a motherfucker for doing that shit. But, I doubt it has happened since the ability to delete material has been removed. I think only two people have the ability to hard delete here.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Road: okay, so they create a thread in a private section that only they and the moderators can see. What's the problem? Less work running around the forum deleting stuff and handing out infractions for people being dicks to them, etc.

We've never done this dude, wtf. If someone has, you need to let us know now. Again, PM me.

 

[Joker]

Noooo, I'm saying that if permabanned members like Username had access to it, and ONLY that section, it would be less work for you guys running all over the place dealing with that because obv they wouldn't know that staff is the only people that can see it. If that makes sense? idk anymore I'm starting to feel dumb for suggesting it

Or do you mean that no infractions were handed out for people being dicks to the banned members, because if so I've gotta say, that's pretty disappointing =/

 

[Cookie Monster]

Noooo, I'm saying that if permabanned members like Username had access to it, and ONLY that section, it would be less work for you guys running all over the place dealing with that because obv they wouldn't know that staff is the only people that can see it. If that makes sense? idk anymore I'm starting to feel dumb for suggesting it

Ah I see, lol. But members that are usually permanently banned are IP banned. They'll just use a proxy server to make another account, which Username has done a hundred times.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Btw, temporarily banned members have officially been given access to the new section.