New site staff and Mod, TresDias/Squall_of_SeeD

[Ⓐaron]

If you don't respect the decision that's fine, and more than your right to. But if you're going to attack its validity, it'd be nice if you brought some valid reasons to the table, coupled with an understanding as to why said decision was made.

It'd be nice if YOU brought valid reasons to the table. Staff have been going on about how he wasn't just modded for his knowledge of FF and Japanese, and then it comes out that the reason he was selected over Terra/Celes/Tennyo/any other well known level-headed member is because he distinguishes himself from the other candidates by knowing Japanese. Sorry, but where I come from that's known as grade-A, major-league bullshit. And as for this crap other people have spouted about members allegedly wanting staff selected based on "popularity," have you even been reading our posts? Having a rapport with members - which is completely impossible for someone who's completely unknown to over half the forums' member base - has absolutely nothing to do with popularity. It just has to do with the person being well known and not being a dick. (Which, to be fair, is a trait several previous staff members don't even have, so I can't say I'm surprised that they ignored it when looking for an addition to their ranks).

And I'm sorry, but for every post Ryu quoted as being an alleged "blatant flame", I could find a worse quote from a member of staff. Do you want me to do so? 'Cause I've got nothing to do all day tomorrow.

 

[Marauder]

Pbobos, can I ask who you would make a mod? Or in your opinion, what makes Tres NOT mod worthy? Just cause people don't know him?

Wow. I didn't say TresDias wasn't mod worthy, maybe you should pay attention. In fact, maybe you should've been paying attention the whole time, since I didn't say he wouldn't make a great mod or anything of the sort. What I said was that it was out of the blue, no one knows him, and he's contributed to the site...but how does that equal mod experience? How does that equal deserving?

More like you don't agree, and can't think of any valid reasons to bitch about it, actually. For one, I couldn't care less if you or anyone kisses my or anyone else's ass here. Number two, the fact we as staff made our choice to make him a mod based on who he was, his experience in other FF communities we've been apart of, his past postings, contributions, helpful actions for our own projects, and positive attitude is more than enough reason in our eyes to see he is qualified to be on staff and fill the vacated spot of another good staffer we had before. It hardly amounts to bullshit, and if you really can't wrap your mind around such a judgment, then I don't know what else to tell you.

If you don't agree, that's fine, and your right. But it'd be nice if you gave a valid and constructive reason for said disagreement other than popularity, entitlement, and antagonism.

Popularity isn't the scope here, but you're ignoring that in favor of us turning this into a popularity contest. Which we're not, by the way. Basically, see Aaron's post.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Like... what about Aaron for instance?

Thanks, but we all know I won't be made a staff member because I actually call them on their bullshit. And really, even if I were offered the position I'd turn it down, because of the preponderance of said bullshit lately. I wouldn't want to represent that.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It'd be nice if YOU brought valid reasons to the table. Staff have been going on about how he wasn't just modded for his knowledge of FF and Japanese, and then it comes out that the reason he was selected over Terra/Celes/Tennyo/any other well known level-headed member is because he distinguishes himself from the other candidates by knowing Japanese. Sorry, but where I come from that's known as grade-A, major-league bullshit. And as for this crap other people have spouted about members allegedly wanting staff selected based on "popularity," have you even been reading our posts? Having a rapport with members - which is completely impossible for someone who's completely unknown to over half the forums' member base - has absolutely nothing to do with popularity. It just has to do with the person being well known and not being a dick.

I don't know what you want us to tell you Aaron. He didn't take a test. No money changed hands, and we don't think Terra, Celes, Tennyo, or any other member here is automatically entitled to suddenly get slid into a mod position when one opens up. You're just basically saying you think X member should be mod, instead of Y, and not accepting the fact that we were looking at another member/person that could fill in said position just as well. In essence, a difference of opinion and ideals. He's just as good a contributor, can give us content, is a great person whom we've had experience and knowledge of for awhile, and a great poster. That's who we saw and felt was capable of being a mod. The end.

And I'm sorry, but for every post Ryu quoted as being an alleged "blatant flame", I could find a worse quote from a member of staff. Do you want me to do so? 'Cause I've got nothing to do all day tomorrow.

Good for you. I don't have any clue how that has to do with the subject at hand in this thread, but if that's how you want to fill your time arguing with Ryu, that's your prerogative.

 

[Marauder]

How is it the end? Of his 155 posts, how does that make him a 'good' poster? Please explain how someone so unfamiliar to anyone besides contributing to the site (which is a separate entity to the forum in the first place,) displays all the good traits of a moderator?

 

[Dashell]

Wow. I didn't say TresDias wasn't mod worthy, ... What I said was that it was out of the blue, no one knows him, and he's contributed to the site...but how does that equal mod experience? How does that equal deserving?

...

Okay so my bad... it's not that he's not worthy... he's not deserving...
Yeah really no comment... just... wow...

And just for the record I thought Aaron did good when he was on staff. I wouldn't mind seeing him as a staff again, but I guess I was under the impression he removed himself thus didn't want to be a staff. If he's changed his mind, I wouldn't mind seeing him back.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Popularity isn't the scope here, but you're ignoring that in favor of us turning this into a popularity contest. Which we're not, by the way. Basically, see Aaron's post.

Then give me the reason you don't agree with Tres being made a mod, that doesn't use popularity, post count, "he wrote essays, lol" and "I don't know him" as your base arguments.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I don't know what you want us to tell you Aaron. He didn't take a test. No money changed hands, and we don't think Terra, Celes, Tennyo, or any other member here is automatically entitled to suddenly get slid into a mod position when one opens up. You're just basically saying you think X member should be mod, instead of Y, and not accepting the fact that we were looking at another member/person that could fill in said position just as well. He's just as good a contributor, can give us content, is a great person and a great poster. That's who we saw and felt was capable of being a mod. The end.

I'm saying that I think someone who already has rapport with members should be a mod. How many times do we have to repeat this before it sinks in? And no, Tres can't fill in the position as well as Celes or Terra or Tennyo could, because no one knows him yet. Maybe after he's been a member for more than a couple of months and has made an appreciable amount of posts outside the number of posts he'll be a great mod. But right now, he's a completely unknown quantity.

Good for you. I don't have any clue how that has to do with the subject at hand in this thread, but if that's how you want to fill your time, that's your prerogative.

It points out the blatant hypocrisy of staff in attacking members for conduct they routinely engage in themselves. If the quoted posts are so so severe, then you, M.O.G., Dacon, and myself should have been fired from the staff ages ago, because all of us routinely posted things that were much worse, and some of you still do.

 

[Marauder]

The whole point is that hardly anyone knows him. How are you overlooking that in favor of popularity?

...

Okay so my bad... it's not that he's not worthy... he's not deserving...
Yeah really no comment... just... wow...

And just for the record I thought Aaron did good when he was on staff. I wouldn't mind seeing him as a staff again, but I guess I was under the impression he removed himself thus didn't want to be a staff. If he's changed his mind, I wouldn't mind seeing him back.

You truly are stupid.

 

[Ⓐaron]

...

Okay so my bad... it's not that he's not worthy... he's not deserving...
Yeah really no comment... just... wow...

She didn't say he's not deserving. She asked how he was more deserving than other candidates listed. To which staff's answer is apparently, "He knows Japanese, lol."

And just for the record I thought Aaron did good when he was on staff. I wouldn't mind seeing him as a staff again, but I guess I was under the impression he removed himself thus didn't want to be a staff. If he's changed his mind, I wouldn't mind seeing him back.

For the record, I don't want to join this staff. If a number of changes were made in the staff roster I might consider it, but honestly I quit from FFR where I still like everyone because I don't care about Final Fantasy enough to bother staffing a board based around it, so I probably wouldn't staff here either even if I did agree with everything the staff were doing.

Then give me the reason you don't agree with Tres being made a mod, that doesn't use popularity, post count, "he wrote essays, lol" and "I don't know him" as your base arguments.

Why is "I don't know him" not a valid base argument? To perform staff duties effectively, a member needs rapport with members. A two-month-old member can't just come in and hand out infractions to people who have been there since the beginning of the forum. It'd be seen as a joke and widely lambasted. If a person is to be taken seriously enforcing the rules, he already needs to be respected by the community, or else his decisions are going to be constantly questioned. Not that this staff doesn't do a good enough job getting itself questioned with the people who had already been on staff, but really, do you need to add to your work load? Seriously.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm saying that I think someone who already has rapport with members should be a mod. How many times do we have to repeat this before it sinks in? And no, Tres can't fill in the position as well as Celes or Terra or Tennyo could, because no one knows him yet. Maybe after he's been a member for more than a couple of months and has made an appreciable amount of posts outside the number of posts he'll be a great mod. But right now, he's a completely unknown quantity.

Tres has demonstrated rapport since he's been here, and more positive bonds and interactions can be established now and in the future. Do you think he's suddenly not going to post, or talk to members here now that he's not a mod now? Do you think he'll disappear from the forum and only appear to hand out warnings or bans to members? Rapport is not the only factor that establishes who can and can't be a mod here. That essentially falls under nepotism and popularity. The nice popular people here on the site who have a total of thanked posts over 1000 don't automatically get put on the fast track for mod hood. We look at the total picture of who we feel would work best within staff. If they're new, then they can learn and get acquainted. Because they're members too and every bit as part of the community as everyone else.

It points out the blatant hypocrisy of staff in attacking members for conduct they routinely engage in themselves. If the quoted posts are so so severe, then you, M.O.G., Dacon, and myself should have been fired from the staff ages ago, because all of us routinely posted things that were much worse, and some of you still do.

That was never Ryu's point in the first place. It was more along the lines of, staff were never ones to instantly ban, suspend, or be apt to hostility towards humor or criticism in the first place. But why are you having me argue Ryu's points in the first place. Take your e-argument to the person it belonged to, not me.

 

[Celes Chere]

I've repeated that now 5 different times and it's as if its not even been read.

Sorry, I guess I just wasn't getting it through my head? :c Thanks for responding and being nice about it, but I definitely still don't agree (I agree with Aaron... I just would have said it... 'nicer'?) , but like I said before Tres isn't a bad decision- just a random one. I'm sticking by that.

So, sorry if you've already said this because I don't recall reading it, but what exactly were these... 'skills' Ms. Kitty had, that the other members don't? All you've said is that none of the members met the requirements that Tres has, but all you've said is that Tres is level-headed, has experience, etc etc that all of the other members ALSO have. What made him so perfect for the position, or is that an Admin/Mod only discussion? X_x You're fond of saying "He was chosen, so there" I noticed. I just wanted a real explaination instead of "we found him the most fitting" but I still don't see how he differs from anyone else.

 

[Dashell]

You truly are stupid.

lol what? Seriously, are we in third grade?

She didn't say he's not deserving. She asked how he was more deserving. To which staff's answer is apparently, "He knows Japanese, lol."

aahh well in that case, I don't have the specific answer obviously, but I am surprised so many people are objecting. I was under the impression that everyone really liked this guy...

I don't want to join this staff. If the roster were cleansed of certain undesirables I'd probably be willing to join again.

I understand, but just wow, I think this is being blown out of proportion. It's not like Tres is the worst choice they could have made. could they have done better? Yeah probably, but they also could have done a lot worse.

 

[Marauder]

So basically, if you like them, they get modded? Great, chief.

lol what? Seriously, are we in third grade?

Clearly we are, if you couldn't understand my very simple post.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Tres has demonstrated rapport since he's been here, and more positive bonds and interactions can be established now and in the future. Do you think he's suddenly not going to post, or talk to members here now that he's not a mod now? Do you think he'll disappear from the forum and only appear to hand out warnings or bans to members? Rapport is not the only factor that establishes who can and can't be a mod here. That essentially falls under nepotism and popularity. The nice popular people here on the site who have a total of thanked posts over 1000 don't automatically get put on the fast track for mod hood. We look at the total picture of who we feel would work best within staff. If they're new, then they can learn and get acquainted. Because they're members too and every bit as part of the community as everyone else.

Way to go attacking a number of straw men. I specifically asked what made Tres more qualified than other candidates mentioned who already have rapport. You completely dodged the issue. Apparently, it's because he knows Japanese.

That was never Ryu's point in the first place. It was more along the lines of, staff were never ones to instantly ban, suspend, or be apt to hostility towards humor or criticism in the first place. But why are you having me argue Ryu's points in the first place. Take your e-argument to the person it belonged to, not me.

If you don't want me to take my e-argument to you, then don't carry it up in the first place. I respond to what's addressed to me.

No one ever argued staff were ones to instantly ban, suspend, or be apt to hostility towards humour or criticism. However, I note that no one who is currently on staff has ever expressed criticism of the staff, and I consider that to be very suspicious.

 

[Makoeyes987]

She didn't say he's not deserving. She asked how he was more deserving than other candidates listed. To which staff's answer is apparently, "He knows Japanese, lol."

If you think that was the only reason he was appointed then you have missed the point.

For the record, I don't want to join this staff. If a number of changes were made in the staff roster I might consider it, but honestly I quit from FFR where I still like everyone because I don't care about Final Fantasy enough to bother staffing a board based around it, so I probably wouldn't staff here either even if I did agree with everything the staff were doing.

Okay.

Why is "I don't know him" not a valid base argument? To perform staff duties effectively, a member needs rapport with members. A two-month-old member can't just come in and hand out infractions to people who have been there since the beginning of the forum. It'd be seen as a joke and widely lambasted. If a person is to be taken seriously enforcing the rules, he already needs to be respected by the community, or else his decisions are going to be constantly questioned. Not that this staff doesn't do a good enough job getting itself questioned with the people who had already been on staff, but really, do you need to add to your work load? Seriously.

Because that's based entirely on popularity, and if the only members who can be staff are those that are popular and well known to others, then that just makes the position a glorified popularity puppet position. It doesn't matter how long the member's been here or how popular they are. If you can't accept and respect enforcement of the forum's rules, regardless of who the person is in the position to respectfully and fairly shepherd and ensure compliance with said rules, then there's a problem. A police officer fresh out of the academy and new to a precinct where they've never lived before is to at least be acknowledged and respected in the position they're in because they're fulfilling their duty, regardless of how green they are.

 

[Ⓐaron]

aahh well in that case, I don't have the specific answer obviously, but I am surprised so many people are objecting. I was under the impression that everyone really liked this guy...

Everyone who knows him, maybe. Meanwhile there are plenty of people who've been here since the start of the forum or shortly thereafter who don't know him. That's the issue. The only time I've seen him post outside this thread was the V for Vendetta thread, and to be quite honest, his first couple of posts weren't the best first impression. Though he improved after that.

I understand, but just wow, I think this is being blown out of proportion. It's not like Tres is the worst choice they could have made. could they have done better? Yeah probably, but they also could have done a lot worse.

Yeah, they could have done worse. They could have staffed Vendel. But let's face it, staffing a relative unknown is still a pretty bad decision no matter how nice, level-headed, and Japanese-knowing a member is.

 

[Marauder]

As far as I'm concerned, they may as well have staffed Vendel. At least then no one would have asked questions and they (the staff) could've gone on with their fingers blissfully up their asses.

 

[Ⓐaron]

If you think that was the only reason he was appointed then you have missed the point.

Or maybe you just haven't expressed the point. You explicitly said that he was staffed because he was the one candidate who could fulfil all of the traits Schala managed. The only trait that distinguishes Tres from other individuals mentioned in this thread is his knowledge of Japanese, therefore simple deductive reasoning fills in the rest.

Because that's based entirely on popularity

No, it really isn't. Rapport and popularity are two completely different things. Rapport just means a person gets along with everyone. Which a person who's completely unknown can't do.

If you can't accept and respect enforcement of the forum's rules, regardless of who the person is in the position to respectfully and fairly shepherd and ensure compliance with said rules, then there's a problem. A police officer fresh out of the academy and new to a precinct where they've never lived before is to at least be acknowledged and respected in the position they're in because they're fulfilling their duty, regardless of how green they are.

You guys aren't a police force, and the fact that you're taking yourselves so seriously as to think your rules honestly deserve the same respect as the law explains a large part of what's wrong with this place. This is a message board. That's all.

 

[Celes Chere]

I was under the impression that everyone really liked this guy...

You I love you but..... RAGE. We've all said we like Tres JUST FINE! -rips hair out-

 

[Dashell]

... I can pretty much guarantee I would have asked questions if Vendel had been modded. Namely, "What are you fucking smoking?"

You I love you but..... RAGE. We've all said we like Tres JUST FINE! -rips hair out-

Lol I mean everyone as in... well EVERYONE. I'm not saying anyone doesn't like him. I mean I was under the impression he was totally famous. So this surprised me.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Way to go attacking a number of straw men. I specifically asked what made Tres more qualified than other candidates mentioned who already have rapport. You completely dodged the issue. Apparently, it's because he knows Japanese.

No, you're basically asking, "why don't you agree with me?" Because, I don't. For one, there's no entitlement check here. Number two, our experiences with SoS and how we've known him as staff, is what had us base our judgment in appointing him here. What part of that do you not understand? Way to go at assuming he just walked in here, and we appointed him mod cause of his Japanese skills. The fact we wanted someone new to the staff with fresh ideas, a positive attitude, and experience doesn't seem to be sticking here.

No one ever argued staff were ones to instantly ban, suspend, or be apt to hostility towards humour or criticism. However, I note that no one who is currently on staff has ever expressed criticism of the staff, and I consider that to be very suspicious.

Umm, that is blatantly false. We've had numerous arguments between other staff members on various opinions and shit on policy. Road, MOG, Yop, and others have gotten into heated debates on how we've done things.

 

[Marauder]

... I can pretty much guarantee I would have asked questions if Vendel had been modded. Namely, "What are you fucking smoking?"

I would've chalked it up to the staff just being the staff, really.

 

[Ⓐaron]

No, you're basically asking, "why don't you agree with me?"

No, I'm not. Don't put words in my mouth.

Because, I don't. For one, there's no entitlement check here.

I never said there should be. I simply said a staff member should already be well known to the member base.

Number two, our experiences with SoS and how we've known him as staff, is what had us base our judgment in appointing him here. What part of that do you not understand? Way to go at assuming he just walked in here, and we appointed him mod cause of his Japanese skills.

I'm sorry, but that's the only trait you've mentioned that distinguishes him from other candidates.

The fact we wanted someone new to the staff with fresh ideas, a positive attitude, and experience doesn't seem to be sticking here.

Celes, Tennyo, and Ninira all have fresh ideas, a positive attitude, and experience. So you still haven't answered what distinguishes Tres from the other candidates mentioned.

Umm, that is blatantly false. We've had numerous arguments between other staff members on various opinions and shit on policy. Road, MOG, Yop, and others have gotten into heated debates on how we've done things.

Yes but none of them had started criticising the staff before they were appointed to it, so you haven't actually countered my point.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Or maybe you just haven't expressed the point. You explicitly said that he was staffed because he was the one candidate who could fulfil all of the traits Schala managed. The only trait that distinguishes Tres from other individuals mentioned in this thread is his knowledge of Japanese, therefore simple deductive reasoning fills in the rest.

If it was just about having a mod who knew Japanese, I could find a friend of mine who knows Japanese, have them register, appoint them mod, and be done with it. I'm sorry, but no. Him knowing Japanese isn't even the point. We're looking at the whole picture, and I'm sorry, but you keep coming back to other members here, when that's irrelevant. No one's entitled. If we want someone with those qualifications, who we've known before to be a positive, level headed and mature member, who also is fresh to the community in terms of ideas and experience, we're gonna go with who we see as exemplifying those traits.

No, it really isn't. Rapport and popularity are two completely different things. Rapport just means a person gets along with everyone. Which a person who's completely unknown can't do.

He can if people give him a chance, and he presents himself in a courteous, kind, and professional manner, all of which he's shown himself capable of doing, and is doing.

You guys aren't a police force, and the fact that you're taking yourselves so seriously as to think your rules honestly deserve the same respect as the law explains a large part of what's wrong with this place. This is a message board. That's all.

You took a simple analogy and blew it out of proportion....

No we don't think of ourselves as a police force. We don't have a fucking subforum jail we throw you in to post in to state your case and justify your membership here. But the fact is, is that we are in place to enforce the forum rules here. Which police officers in a simliar vein...enforce the rules of society. Not that big of a stretch. Way to go at assuming an unwarranted sense of authority and importance for our positions here.