Political entities in FF7

[Clement Rage]

It's worse than you think. According to the Reunion Files, Cloud woke up at 5:30 p.m. It wasn't yet dark then, he hung around until Tifa woke up (at which point it was already dark), and was still at the Ancients' city by 9:30 p.m. on the same night.

Em, timezones?

I always just figured the whole 'saving the world' thing meant he had enough pull with the WRO to get flown there. Making the jouney in four hours, though..., is somewhat more problematic.

Now that we are talking about illogical matters, I've always wondered this: How in the fuck's sake do the people in Icicle Inn have any contact with outside world? I mean, the only way to get there is through air. There are no ports or beaches (case Wutai).

If you go into that level of detail, pretty much any worlds doesn't work. Licorice kinda answered it earlier. Just substitute geography for history

Square built the world they needed in order to tell the story they wanted to tell. With the exception of Jenova and the Ancients, there was no need to provide this world with a history that went any further back than the Wutai War, and no point in trying to fill in the 2,000 year gap between the two; it would simply have cluttered up the story with irrelevant detail. In the same way, there was no point in putting towns, cities and other locations on the map if they weren't used in the story. If you can see a location on a map you expect to be able to visit it. I think it's a shame they didn't give more interesting names to the places you pass through, or to rivers and mountain ranges at least. But to assume that the places named on the map are the only places that exist, or even the most important places, is like reading Harry Potter and assuming that England consists entirely of London, Little Whittering, and that village where the Weasleys live.

No beaches in Wutai? Because the world had to accomodate the materia subquest. They built the world to stop the player skipping ahead, you shouldn't read too much into it.

hat way the travel time would make sense and we could introduce the character to people unfamiliar with the story rather than having them show up with the only explanation for them given being "They're our friends".

That actually didn't bother me, it's easy enough to explain with a few offscreen phonecalls. And they had their cards on the table from the beginning
'to those who loved this world, this reunion is for you.'

In general, I ignore timeline issues. It depends on how often you stay at an inn.

Re Nibelheim: So, when Vince was shot and stuffed in the basement, the Mako reactor already existed? Wasn't Shinra still a manufacturing company back then? I feel like the Shinra Mansion formerly being the Prez's home would be a bigger deal if it was true. There'd be tourists and stuff, little signs about the great company's humble beginnings.

Okay, so I as under the impression that it was pretty much only when mako energy started becoming more popular that monsters became especially ferocious to the extent that it became downright perilous to travel

I'm not sure about that. The most dangerous monsters of all are in the North Cave, which has abundant Mako and is nowhere near a reactor.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

It's like with trains - it simply isn't possible that Midgar would have a well-developed rail system while the rest of the world has no trains at all (except between the Corel reactor and the buffers in North Corel.) if we were to pretend for a moment that their world is real and that what we know of it is all that remains of a vanished civilisation, then I would argue that since the railway line at Corel was obviously built to service the mines, the invention of railways almost certainly pre-dates Shinra; railways are not a technology Shinra invented for Midgar, but a pre-existing technology which they applied to Midgar.

Since railway technology pre-dates mako energy, the arrival of mako energy would have led to a huge growth in railway building: the technology was already there, just waiting for a power source to make it feasible on a massive scale. The expansion of the railway network would have led to a concomitant growth in their economy as raw materials and finished goods could be transported around the world in bulk much more cheaply.

If their world were real (and when we write fanfic we try to make it more real, or flesh out its realness, so to speak) there would definitely be a train running between Kalm and Midgar - and probably plenty more commuter dormitory towns like Kalm in the pleasant rolling land beyond the badlands; once upon a time there must have been coal trains running from the Corel mines all the way to the sea and the freight ports from where the coal was shipped round the world. The route Cloud and his party took to Icicle Inn isn't the only way to get there; there must be port towns on the Northern Continent, and trains and road systems leading from the coast to the winter resort towns.

If their world were real, it would have an extensive rail network. When writing fanfic, I think it's fair to give them that network. The reason we never see the trains in the game is because Cloud and his party travel by other means, so putting the railway lines on the map would be useless clutter. As for why Cloud and Co don't travel by train, your idea is as good as mine. Because Shinra guards all the trains? Because they'd have to produce IDs? Because Aerith is hiding? Because they wouldn't meet any monsters and could never level up?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Now that we are talking about illogical matters, I've always wondered this: How in the fuck's sake do the people in Icicle Inn have any contact with outside world? I mean, the only way to get there is through air. There are no ports or beaches (case Wutai). You need a fucking lunar harp to pass through the forest. To my knowledge there exists only 1 Lunar harp, which is in the possession of Cloud's party.

Apparently Bone Village is littered with the damn things. One of the diggers mentions that Aerith dug one out before entering the forest.

Em, timezones?

Would be a fast bike that could outrun planetary rotation. =P From the look of things, the city and Edge are probably at least in adjacent time zones.

Even if we had that to fall back on, though, the big ruckus in Edge begins at 11:00 a.m. the next morning.

 

[Keveh Kins]

If their world were real, it would have an extensive rail network. When writing fanfic, I think it's fair to give them that network. The reason we never see the trains in the game is because Cloud and his party travel by other means, so putting the railway lines on the map would be useless clutter. As for why Cloud and Co don't travel by train, your idea is as good as mine. Because Shinra guards all the trains? Because they'd have to produce IDs? Because Aerith is hiding? Because they wouldn't meet any monsters and could never level up?

Mayhaps the party that isn't in use travels via public transport and the like. Barret does say that it's too conspicuous to have a large group traipsing across the plains when they leave Midgar. It would also explain how they always seem to get to places before Cloud's half of the party does and have to wait around for him. That said, melikes your idea that they don't use them because of the ID issue better, ties in more with the train system we do get to experience in Midgar as well as Shinra having a schneaky monopoly over the major industries in the world.

On that note, we know that Shinra is the be all and end all of electricity for most of the world and thus they get to set whatever prices they want, and the ignorance of the general populace in regards to Mako production and the like entails they accept the price hikes without protest. But how much does Shinra influence other industries? Red XIII mentions in Kalm that Shinra are probably to blame for the increase in monster activity lately as a result of their experiments. But it's never really mentioned how the monsters got out of Shinra's grasp in the first place. Methinks it's possible that Shinra, also being a weapon's manufacturer and presumably the primary supplier of standard weapons and equipment to a lot of the world, would release the leftovers from their experiments in order to increase the demand for weaponry they produce.

Going on that, they wouldn't be too happy that the miners in Kalm had their own little monopoly on Mythril as a resource and were producing better quality weapons with it at competitive pricing. Thus they let loose a bunch of monsters in the Mythril Mine and possibly chuck the Zolom into the marshland in front of it to drive the miners out, ceasing Mythril production and driving prices up, which is why Mythril weapons are more expensive than the equipment you get in Midgar and also why a lot of the miners are laying around the bar in Kalm.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That's an especially good theory considering the unused battle with the Midgar Zolom inside the Shin-Ra building.

 

[Novus]

I don't think there is any immediate political identity in FF7 realised. I think like any other artwork, it is designed to raise questions and thoughts and have people think and research these topics.

I don't think fiction makes for good political reading, but works best to proliferate ideas. I haven't read Atlas Shrugged, but when I do I won't be reading it to increase my political knowledge of libertarianism; I would use Nozick for that.

 

[SirVival]

If you go into that level of detail, pretty much any worlds doesn't work. Licorice kinda answered it earlier. Just substitute geography for history

This is true.
But this problem is much more present in VII and the earlier installments than it's in VIII or IX. In FFVII the aerial technology seems to be a rather new invention. The ships are only traveling from Junon to Costa Del Sol and back. FFIX and especially FFVIII are in this sense much more logical.

Apparently Bone Village is littered with the damn things. One of the diggers mentions that Aerith dug one out before entering the forest.

Oh yeah, I had forgotten about that. So basically they should just start to sell that shit if they are so easy to find. I remember it was the only place where I got stuck as a kid. For months.

 

[SirVival]

I don't think fiction makes for good political reading, but works best to proliferate ideas. I haven't read Atlas Shrugged, but when I do I won't be reading it to increase my political knowledge of libertarianism; I would use Nozick for that.

Let me just confirm: In this context by fiction you mean science fiction or fantasy? Because if you are referring to any fictional novel or roman, I have to say you are wrong. I think fiction is the best kind of political reading. There is a reason why Orwell, Huxley and even Dr. Seuss are so unbelievably popular in schools and universities.

 

[Novus]

, I have to say you are wrong. I think fiction is the best kind of political reading. There is a reason why Orwell, Huxley and even Dr. Seuss are so unbelievably popular in schools and universities.

Their essays yes, their novels- not so much. Animal Farm is not an accurate account of the Russian revolution. Nor is 1984 accurate in representing a socialist goverment.
Stories are a good way of filtering out the noise and disruption that comes from study because their framework is appealing. If they weren't they would cease to be a popular form of fiction. Note the difference in popularity between 'The Island of Dr Moreau' and 'Modern Utopia'.
This is why films get criticised often today for having too much style over substance, because the meaning is no longer there as its creators haven't been steeped in the political culture as the older generation of filmmakers have. Overall it's a form of communication to bounce around and then retreat into deeper reading on the subject.

I'm not saying they aren't as important. Gulliver's Travels survives whereas most enlightenment thinkers aren't immediately recognizable to the general public.

 

[Skan]

On that note, we know that Shinra is the be all and end all of electricity for most of the world and thus they get to set whatever prices they want, and the ignorance of the general populace in regards to Mako production and the like entails they accept the price hikes without protest. But how much does Shinra influence other industries? Red XIII mentions in Kalm that Shinra are probably to blame for the increase in monster activity lately as a result of their experiments. But it's never really mentioned how the monsters got out of Shinra's grasp in the first place. Methinks it's possible that Shinra, also being a weapon's manufacturer and presumably the primary supplier of standard weapons and equipment to a lot of the world, would release the leftovers from their experiments in order to increase the demand for weaponry they produce.

Going on that, they wouldn't be too happy that the miners in Kalm had their own little monopoly on Mythril as a resource and were producing better quality weapons with it at competitive pricing. Thus they let loose a bunch of monsters in the Mythril Mine and possibly chuck the Zolom into the marshland in front of it to drive the miners out, ceasing Mythril production and driving prices up, which is why Mythril weapons are more expensive than the equipment you get in Midgar and also why a lot of the miners are laying around the bar in Kalm.

Similar to an idea from the early draft of the game (though I think your spin makes more sense):

Wastelands surround the pizza-shaped circular city, and monsters sent out by Shinra keep the people of the slums from escaping.

Another interesting idea that I think they shouldn't have cut out is the idea that ShinRa exported weapons to Wutai during the war for profit. Honestly, I can see the entire war as having been drawn on as long as possible without anybody realizing it.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I love FFVII, but its worldbuilding is pretty fucking terrible, and I don't think its the result of any artistic view; they just sucked at it, but told a good narrative otherwise. Compare FFVII and FFXII, even if you hated the latter, most people will concede that FFXII's atmosphere and attempt to make an interesting, breathing world was pretty fantastic.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

It doesn't help that even if SE wanted to do better world building in the earlier titles, that video game technology was working against them. They've done a much better job of world building in later titles, so they probably could have done better with the earlier ones as well. It just that the earlier titles were squeezed for memory space as it was.

 

[Keveh Kins]

FFIX had decent world building, and on the Mist Continent very definite political powers, borders and kingdoms. Though it always bugged the shit out of me that after you get an airship you never need to fly through any of the Border Gates despite the big hubbub they made about border crossing in the first disc

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Fortunately, it still made sense, though. The ships we get to control can fly higher than the mist since the don't rely on it.

 

[Lord Kesharq]

it could just be that when ShinRa took over everything they wiped out all/most of the old stuff from the places which we can go to in FF7 and replaced it all with "love for the company" shit lol.

Well its not like they have had plenty of time to do such a thing, kinda communist like??. Also i agree with the people who said this game is missing stuff like more towns ect ect, am 100% (and have always felt this way) that this game was ment to be "bigger" in a way that there should have been more towns, cities ect but they just never added them in for one reason or another at the time this game was made.

Pray for a remake with a ton of new stuff added in?


(note am posting at 5:10 am my time again COFFEEless...sorry guys ! xD)

 

[Novus]

This just reminded me, it's really amusing that there are people living in sewage pipes, trailers and shanty homes on one side, looking at the ground for anything salvageable to eat or sell. And Aerith's luxrious home with its own waterfall and 1/2 acre of land on the other.
I often wonder about the creative decision behind that.

 

[Yuri Lowell]

This just reminded me, it's really amusing that there are people living in sewage pipes, trailers and shanty homes on one side, looking at the ground for anything salvageable to eat or sell. And Aerith's luxrious home with its own waterfall and 1/2 acre of land on the other.
I often wonder about the creative decision behind that.

As a lore and world building enthusiast I'm more interested in knowing this than the LTD's canonical answers. I think there is some kind of twisted reasoning to it as she has flowers there, but it's peculiar they could apply that detail without noticing what you pointed out.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I always assumed Aerith brought the flowers from the church since she said they only grew there. Doesn't explain the luxury of that house, though, unless selling flowers funded it.

 

[Yuri Lowell]

edit: nm, she had the house before they found Aeris

yeah that house is some cracker shit

 

[Keveh Kins]

^Inherited house, left over from the original town before it became a Sector maybe? Elmyra's hubbie was a soldier, maybe by slum standards his pay was better

 

[Ite]

Headcanon: Elmyra is a teacher/doctor so no one fucks with her shit.

 

[Clement Rage]

Mine is that the last person to try mess with them got nailed to something by the Turks.

 

[Wolfhart]

I think maybe it is related to the fact that Shinra is interested in Aerith...