SPOILERS Predictions for Part 2? (*Open Spoilers for Part 1*)

[Roundhouse]

Now that a lot of us have finished or nearly finished playing part one, what are your predictions for how part 2 will go? What will it cover, and what sort of things do you expect to see happen?

 

[Scribe]

I expect Tifa to be the surprise death and Aerith to not die at all. It was my impression that the entire purpose of part one is to acknowledge that since everyone already knows the events and how they are supposed to take place, they are instead opting for a completely new story or heavily altered one.

Elements I expect to see:

• More Neo Midgar
• Additional playable characters that weren't featured in the OG
• Locations that weren't in the OG
• Possible redemption for Sephiroth or the Turks
• More Linear game play ???
• No actual globe travel like in OG
• A lot more bland NPC usage like the community center in sector 5's 3 reused character models right next to each other
• Zack being alive and what he would be up to if he survived being played out
• Zack and Aerith getting back together
• A war between Midgar and Wutai being a major plot point
• A reference to Covid-19 using Mako poisoning or something like it
• Nomura Fuckery
• Shitty pop-techno versions of classic OG tracks
• A pretty CGI at the beggining and end to make us feel like it was worth it

 

[Theozilla]

I’ve said this in the other spoiler threads but I am confident in expecting that the skeleton of the OG story/plot will be retained going forward but the meat of it can/will be very different. Some I am definitely looking forward to, e.g. rewriting Cid and Shera’s relationship so it doesn’t come off as an emotionally abused woman settling for Cid after years of putting up with his shit. I am confident Aerith is still going to be killed, I am just a little anxious of her being aware of her death before it occurs, like Noctis in FFXV, but ultimately I do have faith that SE won’t have Aerith doing a “Jesus/Noctis” death.
I definitely expect the Huge Materia subplot to be extremely rewritten/changed. Likewise I think Wutai will be significantly expanded upon and have more gravitas to the main plot too.
And presuming trilogy format, I expect the next installment to either end at Aerith’s death or Meteor being summoned.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I expect Tifa to be the surprise death and Aerith to not die at all. It was my impression that the entire purpose of part one is to acknowledge that since everyone already knows the events and how they are supposed to take place, they are instead opting for a completely new story or heavily altered one.

Elements I expect to see:

• More Neo Midgar
• Additional playable characters that weren't featured in the OG
• Locations that weren't in the OG
• Possible redemption for Sephiroth or the Turks
• More Linear game play ???
• No actual globe travel like in OG
• A lot more bland NPC usage like the community center in sector 5's 3 reused character models right next to each other
• Zack being alive and what he would be up to if he survived being played out
• Zack and Aerith getting back together
• A war between Midgar and Wutai being a major plot point
• A reference to Covid-19 using Mako poisoning or something like it
• Nomura Fuckery
• Shitty pop-techno versions of classic OG tracks
• A pretty CGI at the beggining and end to make us feel like it was worth it

....What is this, I don't even.

Half of those I can't tell if they're a joke or not. While the other half seems like an expectation that the game function as some sort of baleful time capsule.

Demanding the strictest adherence to the OG's story & progression while simultaneously complaining about linearity is the epitome of saving the cake and eating it whole. You don't get both.

 

[Kratos]

I expect Tifa to be the surprise death and Aerith to not die at all. It was my impression that the entire purpose of part one is to acknowledge that since everyone already knows the events and how they are supposed to take place, they are instead opting for a completely new story or heavily altered one.

Elements I expect to see:

• More Neo Midgar
• Additional playable characters that weren't featured in the OG
• Locations that weren't in the OG
• Possible redemption for Sephiroth or the Turks
• More Linear game play ???
• No actual globe travel like in OG
• A lot more bland NPC usage like the community center in sector 5's 3 reused character models right next to each other
• Zack being alive and what he would be up to if he survived being played out
• Zack and Aerith getting back together
• A war between Midgar and Wutai being a major plot point
• A reference to Covid-19 using Mako poisoning or something like it
• Nomura Fuckery
• Shitty pop-techno versions of classic OG tracks
• A pretty CGI at the beggining and end to make us feel like it was worth it

So how did you feel about Part 1, Scribe?

 

[Scribe]

....What is this, I don't even.

Half of those I can't tell if they're a joke or not. While the other half seems like an expectation that the game function as some sort of baleful time capsule.

Demanding the strictest adherence to the OG's story & progression while simultaneously complaining about linearity is the epitome of saving the cake and eating it whole. You don't get both.

Strictest? Dude they flat out made the characters aware that the first game had already taken place. What many are speculating to be premonitions are very obvious to me as flashbacks. It lends itself to the revelation that the whispers are the fans/players will and expectation to keep the key moments on track. Jenova being powerful enough to see worlds and being a galactic parasite it isn’t surprising she can tell this “Remake” is an entirely new thing where she is meant to be defeated again. Sephiroth is very aware of the loop. The entire game is about going off the rails and they make you defeat your own nostalgia to allow it to be possible.

So how did you feel about Part 1, Scribe?

BEST FF EVER! ? I’m cynical at this point. I have more than issues of trust with SE after this.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Strictest? Dude they flat out made the characters aware that the first game had already taken place. What many are speculating to be premonitions are very obvious to me as flashbacks. It lends itself to the revelation that the whispers are the fans/players will and expectation to keep the key moments on track. Jenova being powerful enough to see worlds and being a galactic parasite it isn’t surprising she can tell this “Remake” is an entirely new thing where she is meant to be defeated again. Sephiroth is very aware of the loop. The entire game is about going off the rails and they make you defeat your own nostalgia to allow it to be possible.

They aren't aware that the first game happened. That's a theory one may hold to explain the plot, but there's a myriad of explanations as to what's going on and why. That's one interpretation of many.

The meta-textual reading of the Whispers being the players/fans is possible but that's neither confirmed or denied as well. It's an interesting premise but again, that's an interpretation.

Sephiroth carrying knowledge of the future can be explained in many different ways. And I certainly don't think defeating one's own nostalgia to make room for new experience, is inherently malicious theme at all. That's how one is able experience fresh and unpredictable experiences with already used concepts or stories. There's cynicism and then there's misappropriated maliciousness. Just humanistically speaking, one would have to hold a very bizarre mind set to be so willing and wanting to annihilate their own creative endeavor, nevermind wanting to purposefully ruin it for the people who enjoyed it before. That just doesn't even make sense or comport with reality.

 

[Scribe]

They aren't aware that the first game happened. That's a theory one may hold to explain the plot, but there's a myriad of explanations as to what's going on and why. That's one interpretation of many.

The meta-textual reading of the Whispers being the players/fans is possible but that's neither confirmed or denied as well. It's an interesting premise but again, that's an interpretation.

The whispers cannot serve any other purpose. If the OG never happened they would be pointless.

Sephiroth carrying knowledge of the future can be explained in many different ways. And I certainly don't think defeating one's own nostalgia to make room for new experience, is inherently malicious theme at all. That's how one is able experience fresh and unpredictable experiences with already used concepts or stories. There's cynicism and then there's misappropriated maliciousness. Just humanistically speaking, one would have to hold a very bizarre mind set to be so willing and wanting to annihilate their own creative endeavor, nevermind wanting to purposefully ruin it for the people who enjoyed it before. That just doesn't even make sense or comport with reality.

My issue is the betrayal I feel as a customer. I bought a remake of FF7 not a reboot of the FF7 world/story. There’s a deception that’s been done here, good intent or not. Obviously I’m not an ecstatic customer and I am very critical of their choice to take liberty with the title. I didn’t enjoy the other strange stuff they added in the compilation either.

From where I’m standing the ”Remake” was a big fuck you to the people who have been greatly disappointed with modern FF entries and who were expecting a faithful remake of one of the last A+ titles in the franchise. But it could be awesome.... it’s just not very likely as SE is predominantly owned by businessmen and not gamers, they haven’t put out a game that comes even remotely close to the single digit entries, and their Walt Disney is 20 years absent. Not to mention their incredible support for gacha games... what was that one that became known as the worst ever cash grab?

All I’m trying to say is they don’t care about us. We‘re fish on a hook and they are fine with letting us know it. The creatives pouring acetone over their canvas to spite their corporate masters isn’t unrealistic from an artists perspective. If you consider games art.

But I digress. I do not have high hopes that they will be satisfying my cravings for part 2. I’ll happily be wrong.

 

[oty]

Okay okay, the uh "Square has done shit for the last 20 years" is mad disrespectful tbh

FFXIV? DQXI? Nier? I mean cmon. Thats just plain lack of knowledge in 2020. FFXIV amd its expansions are a definite top5 in the whole FF franchise for anyone that actually played or heard of the damn game.

Besides, do you actually think that stabilishing this crazy "meta narrative" into a game is something shareholders and executives (businessmen) like? There is no way you actually believe that. This was a 100% creative decision, and you have to blame your heroes if you dont like it. Im talking the same people who made the original.

I mean, look at FFXIV:ARR development process. There is just no.freaking.way you see what happened with that game and still blurt out that Square doesnt care about its fanbase. It is literally a lie. SE went through one of the most troublesome and risky development hurdle in all of gaming history to make up for what they did with the fans. And thats something that comes from within the company's philosophy. It's a decision approved by the "businessmen". I completely understand complaining about this game's own hurdles, but blurting out stuff about the whole company? Nah thats too far

 

[Scribe]

Okay okay, the uh "Square has done shit for the last 20 years" is mad disrespectful tbh

FFXIV? DQXI? Nier? I mean cmon. Thats just plain lack of knowledge in 2020. FFXIV amd its expansions are a definite top5 in the whole FF franchise for anyone that actually played or heard of the damn game.

Besides, do you actually think that stabilishing this crazy "meta narrative" into a game is something shareholders and executives (businessmen) like? There is no way you actually believe that. This was a 100% creative decision, and you have to blame your heroes if you dont like it. Im talking the same people who made the original.

I mean, look at FFXIV:ARR development process. There is just no.freaking.way you see what happened with that game and still blurt out that Square doesnt care about its fanbase. It is literally a lie. SE went through one of the most troublesome and risky development hurdle in all of gaming history to make up for what they did with the fans. And thats something that comes from within the company's philosophy. It's a decision approved by the "businessmen". I completely understand complaining about this game's own hurdles, but blurting out stuff about the whole company? Nah thats too far

I played FFXI for an entire decade of my life and am well aware that their concerns were not the customers. We got screwed there too. With XIVARR they had NO CHOICE but to bow to gamers demands and submit an entirely new game that was actually gamer friendly. Calling that a win for them is like saying the oil Companies forced to clean up spills are environmentalists (since we’re talking FF7). They would have gone bankrupt if they didn’t fix that game. From what I’ve heard ARR recycles a ton of old ideas from the franchise anyway.

Trying to add other franchises in this discussion isn’t furthering your point. My beef is with the handling of the FF games. So for clarification I’m refrencing all non-mmo FF Titles. And no they only care when the money isn’t coming in. It’s historical fact.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The whispers cannot serve any other purpose. If the OG never happened they would be pointless.

Nope. That's.. Not really true at all, actually.

My issue is the betrayal I feel as a customer. I bought a remake of FF7 not a reboot of the FF7 world/story. There’s a deception that’s been done here, good intent or not. Obviously I’m not an ecstatic customer and I am very critical of their choice to take liberty with the title. I didn’t enjoy the other strange stuff they added in the compilation either.

That's your own fault then. They never ever said they were going to be doing a Remake that was 1:1 of the original story. A Remake by its definition means re-creating something from scratch. It's not a deception at all. They were actually quite honest about it

From where I’m standing the ”Remake” was a big fuck you to the people who have been greatly disappointed with modern FF entries and who were expecting a faithful remake of one of the last A+ titles in the franchise. But it could be awesome.... it’s just not very likely as SE is predominantly owned by businessmen and not gamers, they haven’t put out a game that comes even remotely close to the single digit entries, and their Walt Disney is 20 years absent. Not to mention their incredible support for gacha games... what was that one that became known as the worst ever cash grab?

Square has absolutely zero reason to feel anything for anyone who would hold disdain for their modern, successful work. They're proud of it. Their fans are proud of it. They have nothing to prove or redeem themselves over. They're successful and have grown phenomenally since their beginnings. Why would they hold a self-flagellating perspective over their own hard work? Why would they even countenance an opinion of someone who thinks they've never done anything good since the PS2 era???

That's again, a highly unrealistic perspective that's divorced from reality or human experience.

And if Square and the writers were primarily motivated by financial interests, they would have taken the path of least resistance and effort. They would've done the game 1:1 and saved themselves the energy, time, and creative exertion. They'd have rehashed the original game with updated graphics and voice acting. End of story. Your premise there makes no sense because it takes exceptionally more effort, resources and money to do what they're doing now. It a shows a devotion and desire to create an exemplary product and experience, expenses be damned.

All I’m trying to say is they don’t care about us. We‘re fish on a hook and they are fine with letting us know it. The creatives pouring acetone over their canvas to spite their corporate masters isn’t unrealistic from an artists perspective. If you consider games art.

But I digress. I do not have high hopes that they will be satisfying my cravings for part 2. I’ll happily be wrong.

Clearly they don't care which is why they took painstaking effort to modernize and recreate the iconic moments of the game, studied their own work, re-wrote the dialogue for voice acting/facial features, captured memorable easter eggs from the original.... Yeah, totally. They just dropped a upscaled remaster of the original and called it a day and..

Oh wait.

 

[Scribe]

Clearly they don't care which is why they took painstaking effort to modernize and recreate the iconic moments of the game, studied their own work, re-wrote the dialogue for voice acting/facial features, captured memorable easter eggs from the original.... Yeah, totally. They just dropped a upscaled remaster of the original and called it a day and..

Oh wait.

You have to buy the OG to understand the Remake. Why isn’t this obvious to more people? Its another cash grab. Stop defending it for one second and think about them maybe, just maybe feeling like they could put Cloud and Co on anything and people would buy it. Look at from a non fan perspective, this game is convoluted trash to them. If I were a first timer I would feel heavily manipulated into giving them more money for the quasi-same game with dated graphics. No matter which way it’s sliced, they were reckless with customers.... again.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You have to buy the OG to understand the Remake.

No you really don't have to buy the OG to enjoy or understand the Remake. I know two friends who haven't touched FFVII until this Remake and they're enjoying it on it's own. So no, you don't need it. You're projecting your own perceptions and beliefs about the game onto others. There are fans who got into FFVII from playing Crisis Core and Kingdom Hearts. There's a myriad of ways people enter and enjoy the world of FFVII, the OG is not the only entry point. And given the fact the Remake is going in directions that are unknown at this time, people like yourself who've played the OG first aren't really that much aware of what's going on now either.

Why isn’t this obvious to more people? Its another cash grab. Stop defending it for one second and think about them maybe, just maybe feeling like they could put Cloud and Co on anything and people would buy it. Look at from a non fan perspective, this game is convoluted trash to them. If I were a first timer I would feel heavily manipulated into giving them more money for the quasi-same game with dated graphics. No matter which way it’s sliced, they were reckless with customers.... again.

This is what I find completely bizarre. I'm not even defending the game's plot direction or adaption choice. That's subjective and YMMV on that choice. I'm literally just speaking logically about what they've made as a product.

If they were attempting to just perform a "cash grab" and were willing to just patch together anything that had Cloud in it, why the hell would they go all out in making a AAA game this extensive, detailed and polished for a cash grab?

Why would they not simply patch together an anime styled remaster/remake that copies every single moment from the OG, changed the graphics to cell-shaded anime, kept the script of the OG minus translation errors, and call it quits? If what you were saying was the truth, why would they go out of their way to make this huge AAA production project that requires new writing, new characters, a new battle system and bust the budget through the totality of this project?

You're the one that needs to stop. Look at this from a non fan perspective. And stop projecting animus towards the same writers you apparently have this hatred and loathing towards, who have paradoxically given you your favorite RPG. Your logic collapses on itself.

And don't try to equate Sakaguchi as the missing element to this because FFVII was not the FF he held the most oversight or writing for. It's partly why he reused the concept of Spirit Energy in FFIX, the FF he did do the most production and writing for.

 

[oty]

I played FFXI for an entire decade of my life and am well aware that their concerns were not the customers. We got screwed there too. With XIVARR they had NO CHOICE but to bow to gamers demands and submit an entirely new game that was actually gamer friendly. Calling that a win for them is like saying the oil Companies forced to clean up spills are environmentalists (since we’re talking FF7). They would have gone bankrupt if they didn’t fix that game. From what I’ve heard ARR recycles a ton of old ideas from the franchise anyway.

Trying to add other franchises in this discussion isn’t furthering your point. My beef is with the handling of the FF games. So for clarification I’m refrencing all non-mmo FF Titles. And no they only care when the money isn’t coming in. It’s historical fact.

What? Did Bethesda patch their mess of a Fallout game while still working on a new one? Did Valve did that with Artifact? Ubisoft and Anthem? No, they didnt. At best, they are working on a new version right now while the old one sits in dust.

There are literally interviews where Square staff admits that they had 2 choices: to more or less abandon the game, or to rework it. They state their reasoning towards the second was to not lose the trust of the fanbase. Not only did they rework it, they upholded months of payment from people while still fixing the mess of a game.

And if you dont believe that that situation was one of most humiliating and difficult situations a developer can go through, these videos should. Or better, they have to. Since its right there.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

I dont have to say much. These videos hold a powerful enough message for anyone to understand. They went through hell and back. Nobody does that just for money. Specially not a whole development team that isnt paid the salary of a executive.

 

[Scribe]

What? Did Bethesda patch their mess of a Fallout game while still working on a new one? Did Valve did that with Artifact? Ubisoft and Anthem? No, they didnt. At best, they are working on a new version right now while the old one sits in dust.

There are literally interviews where Square staff admits that they had 2 choices: to more or less abandon the game, or to rework it. They state their reasoning towards the second was to not lose the trust of the fanbase. Not only did they rework it, they upholded months of payment from people while still fixing the mess of a game.

And if you dont believe that that situation was one of most humiliating and difficult situations a developer can go through, these videos should. Or better, they have to. Since its right there.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

I dont have to say much. These videos hold a powerful enough message for anyone to understand. They went through hell and back. Nobody does that just for money. Specially not a whole development team that isnt paid the salary of a executive.

I thought I was pretty clear that I was around for all of that. I’ve been apart of the whole SE ride start to finish. This is factored in when I make my opinion of them.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You've not even replied to the point they made, so regardless of you being around for it or not, your point is heavily distorted and unreasonable. The logic doesn't carry water. If they didn't care and were doing a cash grab, why try to fix or improve what they can simply cash out on?

A "cash grab" business model prioritizes returns and profits, over anything else. An attempt at meeting fan expectations to improve trust and goodwill, is not indicative of creators or a company attempting to simply go by the numbers. You're outright contradicting yourself.

 

[Scribe]

You're projecting your own perceptions and beliefs about the game onto others.

Let’s keep the facts as facts bro, you came in here quoting me and my PERSONAL opinion with extreme rejection. If anything you are projecting your positive opinion on me, unwilling to accept my negative opinion.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Let’s keep the facts as facts bro, you came in here quoting me and my PERSONAL opinion with extreme rejection. If anything you are projecting your positive opinion on me, unwilling to accept my negative opinion.

I just pointed out your projection because you made a false claim that you have to have played the OG to understand or enjoy the Remake. That's demonstrably false. You're projecting that hurdle based on your own subjective belief of how the Remake's plot is going to play out, which you have zero idea of in the first place.

I've accepted your negative opinion, however I'm pointing out how heavily distorted it is in your desire to ascribe animus to simple creative choice. And they are certainly not doing a cash grab with this Remake. That flies in the face of all objective evidence.

 

[Scribe]

I just pointed out your projection because you made a false claim that you have to have played the OG to understand or enjoy the Remake. That's demonstrably false. You're projecting that hurdle based on your own subjective belief of how the Remake's plot is going to play out, which you have zero idea of in the first place.

I've accepted your negative opinion, however I'm pointing out how heavily distorted it is in your desire to ascribe animus to simple creative choice. And they are certainly not doing a cash grab with this Remake. That flies in the face of all objective evidence.

You say potato, I say denial. ??‍

Can this thread go back to the topic and leave me be already? The world isn’t going to end with a person disappointed in this game, let it rest.

 

[Kratos]

(My reply was mostly redundant, but I do wanna keep this last part, even if it is a little off-topic)

From what I’ve heard ARR recycles a ton of old ideas from the franchise anyway.

The Remake team and FFXIV team are totally different, but 99% of the "recycled" stuff is actually painstakingly recontextualized and written into the lore of XIV's world, the unique elements of which already make it probably the most fleshed out in the franchise (yes, even moreso than XI). It's far from the lazy approach you seem to imply.

 

[Scribe]

(My reply was mostly redundant, but I do wanna keep this last part, even if it is a little off-topic)



The Remake team and FFXIV team are totally different, but 99% of the "recycled" stuff is actually painstakingly recontextualized and written into the lore of XIV's world, the unique elements of which already make it probably the most fleshed out in the franchise (yes, even moreso than XI). It's far from the lazy approach you seem to imply.

I guess if I have to pay a monthly fee and dedicate years of my life to get a decent FF than count me out. How much money does it cost for game (when it started), each expansion, and monthly fee? I don’t think it’s fair to have included the online entries in this argument for either party.

 

[oty]

You literally stated that SE hasnt made a good FF in the last 20years and FFVIIR was just another title in SE's cashgrabs. We gave you facts and numbers to prove you otherwise, which you all dismissed.

It's okay to dislike the ending, it is not okay to imply that Square has become a soulless, greed driven machine. That's disrepectful to the many staff in FFXIV and FFVIIR. I mean, it is almost like you are purposely unaware of the development process that these games are comprised of, or what these games entail.

 

[Kratos]

The argument was more about whether or not Square, as a company, actually applied passion and care to their projects. FFXIV was an example that they totally do, and have been for like 7 continuous years now (more, if you count Yoshida's time on 1.0).

Then again, I also think the love and passion of the team behind the Remake is on full display throughout that entire experience too, so.

Spoiler: Off-topic stuff

But to answer your questions:
It's $15 US monthly, after the first month free. The base game is $20, and the latest expansion - which comes with all previous ones - is $40. Buying the full package is $50.

Yes, the game is a time investment - at a good clip, it'd probably take you 4-6 months or so to get through the latest expansion - and the story does have its ups and downs. But I'd hardly consider that a barrier to checking it out.

 

[youffie]

I’m almost as annoyed at the ending as the developers seemed to be annoyed at me as an older fan during that passive-aggressive meta mindfuckery they pulled on us, but even I can't in good conscience say that there was no love for their work or the original game.

I’d also add that yes, these characters and their stories have been in our minds for decades and we have every right to feel very protective of them. But some of the people working on this remake have been writing them and giving them life for even longer than that, and while I can and I will disagree with many of their choices, I just can't believe they wouldn't care about something in which they poured so much of their lifework. Nojima has been writing about FFVII and its characters for more than twenty years, and I think it shows.

Going back to the title thread. My hopes go somewhere along the lines of what Theozilla said, but I really need to see a new trailer or read some new interviews to be able to say what my expectations can reasonably be.

 

[Eerie]

I think that Theozilla's scenario is mayhaps the best outcome and we're all crossing fingers to it: the beats from the OG will still be there, but there will be twists and added thing - I expect Wutai to be completely different, for one example, but we can bet on added stuff on every location too.

I'm just remembering how I hated Junon though so that's one point I'm not particularly looking forward to lol. But Costa del Sol, Gold Saucer, think about it, many sheningans can happen there, they are such fun locations! And Cosmo Canyon is a good one for lore, not to mention Gongaga and expanded Zack info, etc. There are so many things to look forward, that we oft more than not forget, but the part could be huge.

Also, since the Gold Saucer exists in FFXIV, I'm curious to see if it'll look similar?