Putting the bullshit behind us

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
What? The only reason I didn't request to join the msn chat is because I got jumped on for weighing in on the previous discussion, when people were asking the people who disagreed to come forward. Tiff, if you've got a problem, tell me so I can defend myself. Again, I'd be more than happy to work it out via PM if you want to. If you don't, that's up to you.

At no point have I set out to be an annoying fuck, but I'll stick up for people where I feel it's justified just as you guys would. I'm not out to stir shit or cause aggravation but I can see how some people might think that based on the fact that I was basically agreeing with the other side.

And I'm sure what I've said doesn't just go for you. I'm sure I piss off a lot of people. But I want people to tell me about it instead of posting a ton of passive aggressive stuff, because that gets us nowhere.

If I'm honest, I feel like I can't post an opinion these days without someone jumping on it right away and posting something dicky. I'm so over it. Let's just all be nice to each other instead?

Well, it would actually be nice to have you (and perhaps GLD?) join in the conversations because obviously we butted heads. Everyone should just get all the issues they have off their chest. I would really appreciate it if you'd join into the next convo because I would like a more direct response, I have found PMing gets me no where with people I have had an issue with. MSN however is on the spot, no bullshit, laying it all out there. I believe we were thinking about a Skype chat next, though? (Typing not talking) To be honest, there was no real problem I felt I needed to contact you about. It's simply we have very opposite view points when it comes to the Forum and the way you word your views rubbed me the wrong way every single time. Sometimes I feel like you act that myself and my friends are just the scum of the earth. That is why I never had an interest in speaking with you and spoke against your views. Because I heavily disagreed with them - however - I don't feel like I was ever passive aggressive towards you. I feel like I was straight up aggressive, lol.

And I'm sorry I worded it so harshly, I was rather upset at the time and to be honest I still sort of am. I'm sure you are not the happiest with me, either. Anyway if you join in on chat, then I would be more than happy to discuss everything with you.

To be honest, I won't post something 'dicky' unless the opinion is worded rudely, seems patronizing, etc, which is how a lot of your posts strike me as. And I would much rather be nice and hope to get along, but if someone posts something that is really off putting to me I won't walk on eggshells to spare their feelings.

To be honest, I thought you were posting drunk. Even proposed a 'Username rule' for folks who were posting drunk and disorderly to give them time to sober up.

I was drunk when I was misspelling things. ^^; I'm talking about when we posted the Homestuck pictures and made obviously attacking comments towards staff. I can't speak for the others who also participated in this, but no matter how much I agreed with what I was posting I do regret lashing out in a rash way.

shut down the secrets site, or at least give it a very long time before opening it back up. Keep whatever fucktard with a bone to pick with the forum from getting their kicks out of stirring shit up. Once they realized they either have to speak openingly (and get justifibly flamed) or stop with this.

Yes, there are tons of rude messages. We're just going to ignore those, and probably delete them. I'd advise whoever's doing it to kindly stop filling up my tumblr inbox with that nonsense.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Basically people who aren't directly involved in personal altercations or conflicts should not try to interject themselves because it muddles up the resolution.

Likewise, people should feel free to involve themselves in conflicts that involve the forum/site as a whole and warrants the opinions and thoughts of all members.

It seems there's some sort of miscommunication or something going on, since a couple members seem to feel hurt or that they're not supposed to voice themselves. But I know that's not what anyone is saying here at all and I just wanted to throw this out here clearly and succinctly. No one is being told to just shut the hell up if you haven't been her more than a year, or whatever.

The jist is what I posted above. Please don't misunderstand and think that you're not wanted or your word means less than anyone else's. I know through this entire conflict things may have been said that were not kind, but please do not let that keep you from joining in on the resolution and healing. Since we need everybody and from what I've seen first hand, everyone is interested in making amends and getting to know each other.
 

Tifabelle

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Tifabelle, Nathan Drake, Locke Cole, Kain Highwind, Yamcha, Arya Stark
Before I even get into anything, I won't be around at 7-8pm central, I'll only be home around 9pm central, but we'll see what happens.

As for the other stuff, Ryu I wish you'd stop saying that people shouldn't be excluded from tonight's chat. I don't think anyone even remotely implied that, and we've all said that everyone's welcome. I didn't see anything in Dacon's post to suggest that people weren't welcome in tonight's chat. He was talking about what had already transpired, and even included himself to say that he shouldn't have gotten involved.
Besides, I had already said that everyone was welcome in response to one of your posts and how they could be included. If one person makes people feel like they aren't welcome, then I'm not even sure what to say to that.

I did suggest waiting until tonight's chat to really get into things. Mostly because I think things aren't as black and white as we sometimes think they are. I mean, I don't completely disagree with dacon on some of his points, but I don't completely agree with them either.
I think the stuff that happened the other day was multiple issues that stemmed from one. Also as a result of some past things not ever having been resolved.

Dacon said:
I'm going back into the cave I came out of.

The bat cave?
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
So we're gonna compare two completely different situations now? I made how I felt about one separate issue clear, I even clarified that I didn't mean to say that people's opinions weren't wanted or needed on forum policy and actual board issues. That is why I proposed the group chat to begin with, and why I told mako to schedule another for whoever to attend.

What exactly are you reaching for here?

I'm not directly comparing them. I'm just saying that the 'what you mean and what you come off as saying' being different and being aware of that apply here too.

I already said that in the walls of text that I posted. Maybe not in those exact words but I don't see why I would need to qualify it as exactly that.

Because folks have gotten an entirely different message out of your posts than intended.

Are you of Bajor?

I could well Be. Get me a Motherfuckin' Sisko and let's do this thing.

Well, it would actually be nice to have you (and perhaps GLD?) join in the conversations because obviously we butted heads. Everyone should just get all the issues they have off their chest.

This. Very much this.

I was drunk when I was misspelling things. ^^;

You weren't so much misspelling things so much as occasionally typing a word amidst a giant pile of letters in a blender.

I'm talking about when we posted the Homestuck pictures and made obviously attacking comments towards staff. I can't speak for the others who also participated in this, but no matter how much I agreed with what I was posting I do regret lashing out in a rash way.

It was mostly in reaction to the comments by you and Sami with the gif, though your earlier post of occasional words was also part of thinking about a drunk tank status.

Yes, there are tons of rude messages. We're just going to ignore those, and probably delete them. I'd advise whoever's doing it to kindly stop filling up my tumblr inbox with that nonsense.

Now I'm morbidly curious.
 

Lex

Administrator
Well, it would actually be nice to have you (and perhaps GLD?) join in the conversations because obviously we butted heads. Everyone should just get all the issues they have off their chest. I would really appreciate it if you'd join into the next convo because I would like a more direct response, I have found PMing gets me no where with people I have had an issue with. MSN however is on the spot, no bullshit, laying it all out there. I believe we were thinking about a Skype chat next, though? (Typing not talking) To be honest, there was no real problem I felt I needed to contact you about. It's simply we have very opposite view points when it comes to the Forum and the way you word your views rubbed me the wrong way every single time. Sometimes I feel like you act that myself and my friends are just the scum of the earth. That is why I never had an interest in speaking with you and spoke against your views. Because I heavily disagreed with them - however - I don't feel like I was ever passive aggressive towards you. I feel like I was straight up aggressive, lol.

And I'm sorry I worded it so harshly, I was rather upset at the time and to be honest I still sort of am. I'm sure you are not the happiest with me, either. Anyway if you join in on chat, then I would be more than happy to discuss everything with you.

To be honest, I won't post something 'dicky' unless the opinion is worded rudely, seems patronizing, etc, which is how a lot of your posts strike me as. And I would much rather be nice and hope to get along, but if someone posts something that is really off putting to me I won't walk on eggshells to spare their feelings.

I appreciate everything you said. For the record, I've never considered you and your friends (I'm not even sure who your friends are besides.... Serah maybe?) scummy or anything like that, and I'm sorry if I've come across that way. I know I have a tendency to post in a way that seems slightly condescending and this is something I've tried to work on, and I'm sure both you and I can think of a few occasions now where specifically you and I rubbed each other up the wrong way for no good reason (for me it started in my donator thread where you asked who I was and I didn't really get it) and I think from then on we each kind of formed a little opinion in the back of our heads that may have festered. At least I think that's how it is for me.

I feel similarly about your posts, because I generally tend to feel targeted when you respond to one of my posts and that feels shitty, even if you haven't meant it. But I'm just glad we're communicating this now instead of being snarky. I'll definitely be joining in on the chat later so I hope we can at least get some of this out in the open with each other. I know you're not the only one who feels that way about the way I post and I do totally understand why you would feel that way.

EDIT: I forgot to add, I'm the same with the cba walking on eggshells when posting thing so that probably hasn't helped my case either lol.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
I'm not directly comparing them. I'm just saying that the 'what you mean and what you come off as saying' being different and being aware of that apply here too.

No, I flat out said what I meant. I don't see how anyone could misunderstand that. I said people shouldn't have gotten involved in the drama, myself, and my friends included.

That doesn't translate to "you shouldn't be involved in anything" especially when I already said member input is necessary in my posts. I can't take responsibility for any misunderstanding at that point.

Because folks have gotten an entirely different message out of your posts than intended.

I don't see how. I said what I meant. At that point it's up to them to dictate how they interpret it.
 

Tifabelle

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Tifabelle, Nathan Drake, Locke Cole, Kain Highwind, Yamcha, Arya Stark
Ryu said:
You weren't so much misspelling things so much as occasionally typing a word amidst a giant pile of letters in a blender.

rofl, omg. Take that! hahahahaha.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Before I even get into anything, I won't be around at 7-8pm central, I'll only be home around 9pm central, but we'll see what happens.

The idea is to start around then. I have no clue how long it goes.

As for the other stuff, Ryu I wish you'd stop saying that people shouldn't be excluded from tonight's chat. I don't think anyone even remotely implied that, and we've all said that everyone's welcome. I didn't see anything in Dacon's post to suggest that people weren't welcome in tonight's chat. He was talking about what had already transpired, and even included himself to say that he shouldn't have gotten involved.

I kept saying it because people kept telling me they felt like that. I wanted to stress it as much as I could that anyone would be welcome or have their concerns aired as best I could.

Besides, I had already said that everyone was welcome in response to one of your posts and how they could be included. If one person makes people feel like they aren't welcome, then I'm not even sure what to say to that.

It wasn't just one person, and it's not just this thread. People were already feeling alienated last night. I want us to work through that because I also think that's at the heart of the forum's issues, including a lot of what was said in the recent forum drama.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Now I'm morbidly curious.

I can PM them if you really want. :monster:

for me it started in my donator thread where you asked who I was and I didn't really get it

That was really nothing against you, I legitimately had never seen you post around before. In the Skype chat I was asking "Who's Alex?" and someone had said "Prince Lex" on TLS. Then I'd heard you mostly post in the Mass Effect thread and I don't play Mass Effect so I never saw ya around. When I saw you posting in other parts of the Forum, I really was just wondering who you were, lol. xD

But yeah, I agree with everything you said and thanks for replying and everything. Hopefully you will come to chat? If you don't that's cool too at least we have come to an agreement here. :monster: I guess we both feel the same about one another. ^^; Hopefully we can put that behind us???
 

Lex

Administrator
I can PM them if you really want. :monster:



That was really nothing against you, I legitimately had never seen you post around before. In the Skype chat I was asking "Who's Alex?" and someone had said "Prince Lex" on TLS. Then I'd heard you mostly post in the Mass Effect thread and I don't play Mass Effect so I never saw ya around. When I saw you posting in other parts of the Forum, I really was just wondering who you were, lol. xD

But yeah, I agree with everything you said and thanks for replying and everything. Hopefully you will come to chat? If you don't that's cool too at least we have come to an agreement here. :monster: I guess we both feel the same about one another. ^^; Hopefully we can put that behind us???

I can totally understand that. I'll be in the chat later anyway but yeah hopefully we can put this behind us now ^_^.
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
I kind of skimmed the last few posts, so sorry if I'm treading old ground.

I think with this situation specifically, I made it very clear that I didn't care for nor want anyone else's opinion on whether or not the offending post was offensive. Which was what 99.9% of the "noise" posts were commenting on. It was really, really pissing me the fuck off.

In fact, I found it kind of puzzling that most people were talking about that rather than the lack of transparency of the staff, which was really the highlight of my issue.

Though in all fairness I am not completely faultless for this. At the time the giant thread was made I was at a level of frustration where I was just about done posting on these boards altogether. At that point I did give my consent for other people to speak on my behalf. That probably didn't help matters, but what's done is done.
 

Sprites

Waiting for something
AKA
Gems
I'd just like to point out my only reason for getting involved ( I say involved but I made one post) and I already pointed out that I've rarely got involved in any drama before except to watch from the sidelines and thank a few posts was because as a member I felt uncomfortable watching another member/mod get villified they way they did, true I do know Ryu but I would have said the same if it was anyone else. Honestly you can't blame someone for getting involved if it makes them feel uncomfortable like that and I did PM a mod to say that was how I felt.

Then watching a lot of stuff get dragged about in the GC thread where I would tend to read and post a lot in got me annoyed because it was really disruptive (I know it's been addressed already) but again it's hard not to notice when it takes away from the stuff you normally do.

Again and this might go off topic but I've already explained how I feel on the stance when stuff like this takes precedence over other stuff going on in the forums...I dunno how much that input was worth and I feel I went off topic...I just I dunno I feel weird about this because I've been here so long and know so many people on this forum and from the ACF days though I doubt they know me so much but when something like this does flare up I can't help but feel a little affected. I'd never wanted to get involved in any drama before but there was just something about it this time that made me want to go enough is enough you know?
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
I had about five tl;drs in that old thread. I wrote them out carefully, read them over twice, then deleted every single one of them. Because more reasons I care to mention.

I knew it wasn't really my place to say. But the reason I wanted to was because I had mentioned before, it was there and it was interfering with everything. With the decisions that were made, with the way people were being treated, with the levels of tension between different members. It was like hitting a brick wall every so often. It was frustrating, and I wanted it fixed.

I think, genuinely, the worst part of this was that it split the forum. I could see it on the forums, I could see it on irc, and i could see it on tumblr. And just the amount of disrespect and namecalling from both sides. And to people who weren't even directly involved, they came in to say their piece, and I felt that they were shit on. Yeah they probably shouldn't have, but no one deserves being crapped on with such intensity.

It was a never ending downpour of good people shitting on good people, then other good people seeing that and shitting on them, and holy crap that's a terrible mental image but I hope people see why others were so genuinely upset. I considered saying my bit and leaving the forums simply because I didn't want to be in a place where that happened. Especially since a lot of the people here, I actually really like.

And then this thread appeared. And yeah, thank you for everyone who worked this out. It must not have been easy. And it probably was hundred times more emotionally exhausting to be in it.

So thanks. You effectively restored my hope for people in this forum, because I always knew that they were good people and fun to be around. This just made me forget temporarily.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
In all honestly I still feel pretty fatigued of this place and think it'd be better served if I just went my own way.

I feel like I don't mesh with the people here anymore and I don't think that incompatibility is something that can be "fixed".
 

Fangu

Great Old One
I'm just dropping by to say I won't be around the next few days. Thanks for the replies I had. I really appreciate them and I wish I had time to sit down and comment, but I'm on a trip with friends and since I see them like every 3 months I have to focus on charging my batteries.

Also Lex and Tiff talking and stuff = :joy:
 

Carlie

CltrAltDelicious
AKA
Chloe Frazer
Demona said:
also shut up kripey you ho

You know it's true. :monster: Tiff be careful if you speak with Lex you might end up seduced by his Scottish accent like Kripey.


Adding my two cents:

I agree with both arguments regarding the involvement in the drama. I think partially the reason why people who were not directly involved posted was because the drama escalated in a thread that started about something regarding the forum.
 

Joker

We have come to terms
AKA
Godot
To anyone who feels ad though they get involved regardless of whether or not the person being treated shittily or unfairly is their friend - I hate to make myself a martyr here (I really, really hate it), but where was all that during the numerous occasions staff felt like making me their bitch? I realize people want to just be over all of this and they certainly don't need me causing more trouble, but as it stands I was not able to be present last night and will not tonight, either, and (surprise!) I have a very great deal that I would like to say about a great many things. I'm sorely tempted to bring up gld's warning here, but that's really not going to do anyone any good.

I'm not unreasonable. Once upon a time, people liked and respected me at this forum because I was outspoken about members' rights here, and did all that I could to improve the forum NOT for the frontpafe, but for the community. I remember the days when I was actually friends with all of the staff and about 95% of the memberbase. All that's changed is that I kept trying to fight the good fight and got really, really fed up with what I received back from the communuty and staff for my efforts to improve things. I got a pm from a staff member recently saying that staff didn't listen to me or take me seriously because they didn't trust my intentions - the thing is, I don't beat around the bush and i dont hide my intentions. I have labored to make this place enjoyable for as many people as possible, and I accept all of the consequences of that - I know that as time passed, my frustrations and anger and everything else have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but if I would not do it differently were I given the chance to do it over.

And while its nice to see that people seem to be working things out, I'm going to be bluntly honest and say that I have very deep, grave misgivings about everything that I've seen and heard here. I've been at this forum for over three years - three years that i have watched and listened. I may forgive people for things (I say may but really I forgive just about anything), but I dont forget, because that would mean forgerting the lesson. The honest truth is that I have no faith in staff anymore, or their word. I have seen this 'resolution' of conflicts.several times, and it always ends like this. The thing is that after every bout of drama, staff continues to behave in the same manner and slags off members. The difference now is that the members know, but I do not have the trust in the moderation team to not sinply create a more secret secret section and continue to carry on as they have.

I would like to believe in all of this, and I will certainly give it its fair shake. But, like always, I watch, and I listen. I really dont want to be right this time. My.mother may have raised a fool, but she certainly didn't raise an idiot.

All of this typed from my phone - which took about thirty minutes. Let none doubt my sincerity, especially when i say that I want what is best for the board, up to and including vacating the premises if that is wgat is best.

edited because my phone feels that derp is better than deep. wow phone, thank you so much
 
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Cookie Monster

NOM NOM NOM
sinply create a more secret secret section and continue to carry on as they have.

I'm cool with everything you said man, especially after being through these situations several times. Having doubt is perfectly natural. But this thing about creating a new section is ridiculous. Just sayin'.
 
AKA
L, Castiel, Scotty Mc Dickerson
The issue that I seen about making the full staff section viewable for members is that as soon as you do that then all the bs that is KNOWN to have been said will then be reported and then all that's going to happen is more drama.
 

Cookie Monster

NOM NOM NOM
There's also the issue of member privacy. But that's why we created the new section. If you guys bring up something with us there, we won't have to use the staff section and you'll see how we handle things. Other than that, there isn't much else to show. Mako brought up some good points. Do you really need to know our discussions on problem users like Username or WoI? Or how many more infractions so and so have before their next banning (I know you'd love to see this Scott :awesomonster:)? Or how we intend to keep TLS Secrets project drama free? And even that is on route to be discussed publicly since it was a user generated activity. There isn't much else in there. :/
 
AKA
L, Castiel, Scotty Mc Dickerson
Oh I know what's been said about me behind closed doors.

I just don't believe there will ever be full transparency between members and staff regardless of what happens in the next few skype convos.
 
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