Shinra's Rocket Plan

[Smaddy]

The whole Sephiroth-Meteor thing, the fact of the matter is... everyone was totally screwed anyhow. Look at later parts in the Compilation, Meteor was destroyed, Sephiroth was destroyed, yet they were still stuck with Geostigma... which as I understand it, was an effect of the destruction of the Meteor (greatly simplifying things here).

But yeah, I think I'm sticking to my opinion that even IF they could've exploded the Meteor using the Rocket and/or Huge Materia (any amount), the leftover pieces would still cause big issues.

And then there's a question- I suppose you could re-activate Meteor/ black materia. Asuming the black/white Materia generally work the same as other colors and you can just re-cast the spell if you had the right person/conditions...

So where is the Black Materia, post FF7? We know where the White Materia is, assuming it's still there.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Somehow I don't think Sephiroth is that baller. He couldn't even use the spell in the first place under his own power.

Still, being in the Northen Crater, he could use the Lifestream to utilize the Black Materia again.

So where is the Black Materia, post FF7?

First of all, we would have to know where was it after Cloud delivers it to Sephiroth.

Some people seem to believe that the Black Materia was fused into Sephiroth (apparently, those people think that the orb in Safer Sephiroth's black wing is the Black Materia). I that was the case, it was probably destroyed along with Safer Sephiroth.

If not, maybe after Sephiroth's defeat, it fell in the Lifestream and dissolved in it.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Does he have the energy for that, though? I'm not saying he definitely CAN'T, but wouldn't repeated uses of a soul sucking spell that you needed external assistance with in the first place weaken him?

 

[Dark and Divine]

Does he have the energy for that, though? I'm not saying he definitely CAN'T, but wouldn't repeated uses of a soul sucking spell that you needed external assistance with in the first place weaken him?

Probably, unless he didn't used any of his spirit energy in the first place, using only the Lifestream for it.

 

[Smaddy]

Probably, unless he didn't used any of his spirit energy in the first place, using only the Lifestream for it.

That's what I was thinking too. Because technically, being "dead", does he even have much of his own energy?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Being 'dead' gives him more energy than he ever had.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Trying to waste materia to blow up an unstoppable spell like Meteor would only fail. Just because the Huge Materia is materia, doesn't mean its nearly powerful enough to completely negate the entire spell. Holy, which is Meteor's equivalent, was the only ultimate spell capable of stopping that, and only if it was far enough. It took an extreme amount of the planet's only Lifestream to destroy. Which is certainly more than the amount of spirit energy housed withing Huge Materia.

And the Black Materia is somewhere back with the planet. And if Sephiroth felt like going through the same old plan that failed before, I suppose it could be possible, since there's nothing to stop him from using it. He used the planet's spirit energy to supplant his own when casting Meteor the last time.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Trying to waste materia to blow up an unstoppable spell like Meteor would only fail. Just because the Huge Materia is materia, doesn't mean its nearly powerful enough to completely negate the entire spell. Holy, which is Meteor's equivalent, was the only ultimate spell capable of stopping that, and only if it was far enough.

This is true. Given the duality nature of the White/Black materia, I can see how someone would think its a waste of time (and it was). The thing is, Shinra should know this better than anyone.

 

[Ryushikaze]

It's more or less the size of the moon.

Not To Scale.

Meteor is certainly fuckallhuge, but using Bugen's model as a fact isn't really the best idea, since the moon is within the atmosphere in it.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Not To Scale.

Meteor is certainly fuckallhuge, but using Bugen's model as a fact isn't really the best idea, since the moon is within the atmosphere in it.

Well then, these might give us a more accurate idea of Meteor's size:

It took an extreme amount of the planet's own Lifestream to destroy [Meteor].

Not really, it was only a portion of it.

from Aerith's timeline in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania:

[ ν ] - εуλ 0008/1
· FFVII
She used a portion of the Lifestream to stop Meteor’s descent.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well, a portion of the Lifestream is still a lot.

I mean, look at its animation. It's enough lifestream to cover up the entire surface of the globe. That's still a significant amount compared to just the Huge Materia.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Well, a portion of the Lifestream is still a lot.

I mean, look at its animation. It's enough lifestream to cover up the entire surface of the globe. That's still a significant amount compared to just the Huge Materia.

Yes, but i was under the impression that, by your post, you were saying that almost all the Lifestream in the planet was needed.

But it makes you think that, if only a portion of it covers the entire planet, how much Lifestream does a single planet contains?

 

[Makoeyes987]

By the way, I just want to state that the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania's story playback of FFVII assumes you end up getting all of the Huge Materia. So according to the plot, Cloud and the others succeed at gaining all the Huge Materia from Shinra and keeping them out of the hands of Shinra.

 

[Shademp]

By the way, I just want to state that the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania's story playback of FFVII assumes you end up getting all of the Huge Materia. So according to the plot, Cloud and the others succeed at gaining all the Huge Materia from Shinra and keeping them out of the hands of Shinra.

Sorry Mako, but I can't find it in the compilation timeline for that ultimania. The only mention of Huge Materia is that Cid becomes the leader of the quest for it.

Edit: Since I can't find it, I'm going to assume we don't have it translated here.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's the story playback section. The section where they talk about the plot and playback/summarize it for each FFVII game, near the back of the book.

 

[Dark and Divine]

It's the story playback section. The section where they talk about the plot and playback/summarize it for each FFVII game, near the back of the book.

Was that bit translated?

I don't remember reading it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No it hasn't been translated, but hitoshura read it.

It's basically an entire synopsis of all the plot events of FFVII. And for every other Compilation title.

 

[Shademp]

Anyone who can read japanese is a god in any FF community
I'm highly irritated by this inconvenience. There are so many things I'd like to know if they are canon and if it happened at all. Like, did Cloud date Aerith? What happened to Emerald and Ruby weapon? Did Cloud buy a flower or not from Aerith? And so on.

 

[Makoeyes987]

FFVII Ultimania states Cloud and co. challenged all the WEAPONs in the story, as does the 10th Anniversary Ultimania section on them. The things regarding the date and affection value are iffy though. But its apparently assumed the high affection Highwind scene is the one that plays out for Cloud and Tifa.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Not trying to add any kind of pressure in Hito, but it would be nice to have an official retelling of FFVII's story in the site.

Though it probably wouldn't bring anything new, except for the canonicity of events such as the one with the Huge Materia.

 

[Makoeyes987]

To be honest, I thought it was pretty obvious that Cloud and the others did everything in the story, which includes saving all the Huge Materia, and wrestling with the WEAPONs. All the translations do is state the obvious.

It's nothing really esoteric or game breaking.

 

[Shademp]

To be honest, I thought it was pretty obvious that Cloud and the others did everything in the story, which includes saving all the Huge Materia, and wrestling with the WEAPONs. All the translations do is state the obvious.

It's nothing really esoteric or game breaking.

Even if all Huge Materia being retrieved by AVALANCHE is an intuitive idea, it means alot to have it stated as canon.
But is it stated that Cloud and the others defeated Emerald and Ruby? If they didn't, then did the WEAPONs just go back to rest after Sephiroth was defeated? (I'll try not to post anything more off-topic after this)

 

[Makoeyes987]

If they fought them to the death (which a WEAPON fight would be) why would Ruby and Emerald not be dead? The only WEAPON they were shown incapable of defeating was Diamond, which is the strongest WEAPON within the story.

Hell, the Jade WEAPON fight is considered part of the BC storyline and included within the plot.

 

[Legend]

Can I revive this thread? Yes? No? Why the heck not.

I've always thought that this part of the story was dumb - not that there was anything dumb on Shinra's part, but AVALANCHE going on to stop their plans. But this has been discussed a million times already, so here's something that I believe hasn't been discussed that makes zero sense:

After Shinra finds the Huge Materia in Corel, they load it onto the train bound for North Corel. If you manage to take the Huge Materia and stop the train from crashing into North Corel, the townspeople will praise you and one man even says, "The Shinra was just about to destroy our lives again." If you don't stop the train, the town itself will stop it.

So AVALANCHE saves North Corel from destruction. Does this mean Shinra was intending to just crash into town? Then what was the point of loading the Huge Materia onto the train? Where do the train tracks even go? Why was the town even built on the tracks in the first place?

Maybe Shinra wasn't aware that some idiots had built a town on the tracks, and the Shinra train driver may or may not have stopped the train from crashing into it. Or maybe Shinra was aware, and their plan all along was to stop it, and then wait for a helicopter to come to pick up the Huge Materia afterwards. This makes sense, I guess... but still. "The Shinra was just about to destroy our lives again." Really?

 

[Roger]

Can I revive this thread? Yes? No? Why the heck not.

I've always thought that this part of the story was dumb - not that there was anything dumb on Shinra's part, but AVALANCHE going on to stop their plans. But this has been discussed a million times already, so here's something that I believe hasn't been discussed that makes zero sense:

After Shinra finds the Huge Materia in Corel, they load it onto the train bound for North Corel. If you manage to take the Huge Materia and stop the train from crashing into North Corel, the townspeople will praise you and one man even says, "The Shinra was just about to destroy our lives again." If you don't stop the train, the town itself will stop it.

So AVALANCHE saves North Corel from destruction. Does this mean Shinra was intending to just crash into town? Then what was the point of loading the Huge Materia onto the train? Where do the train tracks even go? Why was the town even built on the tracks in the first place?

Maybe Shinra wasn't aware that some idiots had built a town on the tracks, and the Shinra train driver may or may not have stopped the train from crashing into it. Or maybe Shinra was aware, and their plan all along was to stop it, and then wait for a helicopter to come to pick up the Huge Materia afterwards. This makes sense, I guess... but still. "The Shinra was just about to destroy our lives again." Really?

I would assume the train tracks were meant to go to original Corel, and the end of those tracks and the station was burned down by Shinra along with everything else. I guess it's an automatic train between the two locations and Shinra was just quite stupid about how they setup this operation.