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Shinra's Rocket Plan

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#51
The North Corel encampment is at the foot of Mt. Corel, where a looming Mako Reactor sits. The railroad tracks start at the decommissioned station where coal was collected from the mountain, where now the Corel Mako Reactor sits at the beginning of those tracks. No train was in commission in all the time since North Corel was constructed after Corel was razed to the ground. It served as a makeshift replacement town after the original Corel areas was made into a wasteland prison. Shinra certainly didn't care about this shanty town, and the tracks from the reactor served as transportation for the train holding the Huge Materia, where it was certainly going to crash into the remaining shacks and tents that made up the town. Shinra didn't know or care what was at the end of those tracks. They simply started the train from the Reactor and would absolutely have just rammed through the crap in the way, collect the materia and go on about life. There was a town on the tracks and Shinra made no attempt to warn, or relocate the people in the way.

This is the same company that dropped an entire plate with a city on top of it, holding mostly Shinra employees no less, to kill 6 people in the slums below. The same company that burned an entire town to the ground, and spent the resources to recreate the entire town entirely to hide the evidence. Yeah, they gave no fucks ramming a train into a makeshift tent city to get the Huge Materia.
 
#52
It would be totally in character for Shinra to behave in this way. What really makes no sense is why they didn't just load the huge materia into a helicopter. The reactor has a landing pad.

Anyway we can't assume, nor can the inhabitants of Corel assume, that the original, Shinra driver of the train was just going to crash right into them. He'd have killed himself, apart from anything else, and I never got the vibe that Shinra's ordinary employees were willing to die meaninglessly for the company on its say-so. He'd be more like, "Fuck that, I'm gonna stop this baby and LIVE!!!!" The reason the train doesn't stop is because Cid can't figure out how to make it stop. Except when he does. I reckon the Corellians just assumed Shinra were going to wreck their lives again because that's what Shinra always does.
 

JBedford

Pro Adventurer
AKA
JBed
#53
There are three scenarios with the Corel Huge Materia mission.

1: The party catches up to Shinra's train, kills the monsters, the driver, and stops the train.
2: The party does not catch up with Shinra's train at all. The train stops at North Corel and doesn't crash into it.
3: The party catches up to Shinra's train. If the party doesn't stop the train, that train is crashing.

I assume the reason the train crashes into North Corel is just meant to assume the player kills/distracts the driver and so the train can't be stopped.

If we try to put logic into this, the reason the driver makes the decision to intentionally crash into North Corel if the party so much as boards the train is to heroically martyr himself to kill the party and prevent them from getting the Huge Materia. If that driver stops the train normally, the party would easily seize the Huge Materia from the stopped train. Although the driver does fail in taking the party down with them, he does incapacitate them long enough for Shinra to recover the Materia from the train debris.

Edit: This doesn't explain the "The Shinra was just about to destroy our lives again." thing. Although I guess the people seeing the party stop the driverless train in the nick of time would make them think that Shinra were about to destroy their lives again.
 
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Legend

Rookie Adventurer
#54
I agree that the Shinra train driver would have stopped the train if AVALANCHE hadn't interfered in the first pace. Crashing into town would have served no purpose considering that (1) the train ends up falling over and stopping anyway and (2) the driver most likely would have killed himself.

Also, a helicopter may not have been necessary since Rocket Town is actually pretty close to North Corel. Maybe Shinra had a truck coming to pick up the Huge Materia after the train had reached its destination. (In this case, their destination would have been North Corel, since Old Corel is further away from Rocket Town. Not like the train would have made it there anyway.)
 
#55
It's just, if it was me and I really needed that huge materia, I'd choose the most expeditious way. I wouldn't load it onto an old train, run it across a decommissioned railway littered with broken sleepers, take it through a tent-city full of economic refugees who hate me, load it onto a truck, drive it to a port, load it onto a ship, and sail it to Midgar. Too much could go wrong; too many chances for Avalanche to interfere. I'd put it in a chopper and fly it straight to HQ. I probably wouldn't put the Turks on the job, though. They seem rather incompetent.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#56
Shinra didn't know the residents of North Corel parked themselves on the railroad. They just simply used the train tracks that were there since they were trying to extricate the Huge Materia.

And considering the Reactor is high in the mountains a helicopter would not be a safe means of transportation at all. Helicopters and mountains usually don't mix.
 
#57
What makes you think Shinra didn't know that the Corel refugees had created a tent city on the railway line? To me that seems very unlikely. That area is strategically important to them.
I live in Switzerland and we have a helicopter rescue service lifting people off mountains; it flies past my apartment on a regular basis because I'm close to a major hospital. Helicopters take people on scenic tours over the Alps. They drop crazy ski bunnies on high glaciers. In short, helicopters and mountains seem to mix well enough here. In any case, the Corel reactor is more in the foothills of the mountains than high up in them, unlike the reactor at Nibelheim, which doesn't seem to have its own landing pad.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#58
If you go by the map, the ascending direction you go and the peaks of the Corel Mountains surrounding the Corel Reactor itself, the impression you get is its deep in the mountains and surrounded by them from all sides. And while helicopter tours in mountains like the Alps can happen, a lot of helicopter crashes happen due mountain strikes due to difficulty maintaining lift in higher altitudes and navigating terrain. Not to mention it takes particular skill and training for it.

Shinra would not take the risk especially when the reactor has a train system to use that conveniently ends at a station they can pick it up.

And I don't think Shinra fully realized the tracks would end at a makeshift camp. They probably only realized it by the time the whole plan began and it was too late to stop. Hence why the villagers were surprised by it as well. Why would Shinra potentially crash or at least risk driving partially through an entire tent settlement?

And if they were gonna stop the train entirely before hitting the town, then that means the train would have to stop right on the overhang bridge outside North Corel. Which makes no sense, and would be dangerous seeing as how there's no where for any person to unload the train over the dangling bridge that hangs over a crevice. Shinra HQ simply wasn't aware of the fact that train station was now occupied by the refugees they created burning down an entire town.
 
#59
I think Shinra probably have some altitude trained helicopter pilots. Seeing as how they're so dependent on helicopter travel. Also, the railway was in a poor state of repair, and yet if one discounts helicopters it's the only way to get supplies to the reactor. We're left with one of two conclusions: either Shinra flew supplies in using helicopters, or they just didn't care if the manky railway track collapsed under the supply train, at great cost to themselves.

I disagree with your reasoning re. the train. The train could and did stop once it was over the bridge and before it came to the settlement. It was a close thing, but it did stop. That could easily have been Shinra's plan all along. Being unaware of a settlement in that area makes even less sense. I suppose it all depends on how you characterise Shinra. It's hard, though, to imagine how a company like Shinra could come to dominate the entire world if it had so little regard for its strategic regions and its assets that it didn't know the one means of transport to one of its key reactors was on the point of falling down and had a tent settlement built right over it.
 

Shaun

Lv. 25 Adventurer
#60
At the very least, people have to walk through the tent village to get to the Gold Saucer Ropeway Station. Given the general economy shown in the game and shinra's monopoly over pretty much everything, it's a fair bet that the majority of Gold Saucer visitors work for Shinra in some way (and they are probably involved in the management of the place to begin with, given what is likely enormous power requirements). I agree that it would be unlikely that Shinra didn't know.

The train would have to stop right on the overhang bridge outside North Corel. Which makes no sense, and would be dangerous seeing as how there's no where for any person to unload the train over the dangling bridge that hangs over a crevice.
I'm pretty sure that safety was never a consideration when they built that railway. Just about everything on it is dangerous in some way, even if it wasn't falling apart.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#61
I disagree with your reasoning re. the train. The train could and did stop once it was over the bridge and before it came to the settlement. It was a close thing, but it did stop. That could easily have been Shinra's plan all along. Being unaware of a settlement in that area makes even less sense. I suppose it all depends on how you characterise Shinra. It's hard, though, to imagine how a company like Shinra could come to dominate the entire world if it had so little regard for its strategic regions and its assets that it didn't know the one means of transport to one of its key reactors was on the point of falling down and had a tent settlement built right over it.
If they knew North Corel was living on the railroad tracks, why didn't they get the people to move their crap out the way? Why didn't they demolish it? Why would they purposefully stop a train on the bridge and take a risk of stopping it on the tracks instead of having it dock at a proper stop?

The easy answer for why Shinra's higher ups wouldn't know of North Corel, is that they simply overlook the downtrodden just like they do the population of the slums. They may be vaguely aware of their presence but not their precise comings and goings. They have no reason to.

At the very least, people have to walk through the tent village to get to the Gold Saucer Ropeway Station. Given the general economy shown in the game and shinra's monopoly over pretty much everything, it's a fair bet that the majority of Gold Saucer visitors work for Shinra in some way (and they are probably involved in the management of the place to begin with, given what is likely enormous power requirements). I agree that it would be unlikely that Shinra didn't know.
General employees might be aware of it, but why would Rufus Shinra be aware of the plight of North Corel? The Huge Materia extraction was his plan. The last time Rufus has been to Corel was when it was a proper village and the Reactor was being built. Shinra wouldn't care or be cognizant of such minute details. If they were, why wouldn't they move the people and their crap to make room for the train?

.....Do people really believe Shinra was somehow going to be considerate and try to stop their train on a precarious bridge without proper walkways, just to avoid inconveniencing the North Corel village and their shanty town?
 
#62
Well, it doesn't look as if those train tracks are in regular use, does it? While Shinra may be happy to treat its employees as expendable, it wouldn't make financial sense for them to leave a railway in disrepair if they rely on it. Since it also seems impossible for them not to know that the tent city exists - since, as Shaun pointed out, you have to walk through it to get to Gold Saucer - the only logical conclusion is that Shinra had let the railway fall into disuse and didn't care if people built a shanty town on it.

Whether or not Rufus knows the shanty town is there is irrelevant, unless you want to assume he planned every detail of the Huge Materia Retrieval Missions himself. However, it's more likely that he issued the order, "Get me the huge materia", and this order was passed down the chain of command until it reached the people on the ground who were actually in a position to organise the operation.

Anyway, like I said, they don't need to move the people to make room for the train, because there is already room for the train. If there weren't, then when Cid's in charge the train would stop on the suspension bridge, but it doesn't, it stops right outside North Corel, as you can see at the beginning of this video clip:

 
AKA
Mr. Ite
#64
Shinra owns the Gold Saucer? I always imagined it was like Cloud City, owned by Dio. Hmmmm I suppose that could be headcanon though...!
 

youffie

Pro Adventurer
#66
Well, I think Dio says he's the owner of the Gold Saucer, but that might be a slight mistranslation and he might just be the curator/director or something. If you check the map at the main "hub" terminal in Gold Saucer, you can read a series of promotional messages on the various attractions. The main message is this:

"Welcome to Gold Saucer!
Many attractions await you here at Gold Saucer.
You will be moved and excited, thrilled and terrified! Led from one zone to another... unlike anything you've ever experienced! Make your memories...today. Shinra"

This should be from the original PSX version of the game. In the PC version, I think there's a "Dio" instead of "Shinra" at the end, but the Japanese apparently does say Shinra, implying Dio is just the person they put there to manage it.
 

Legend

Rookie Adventurer
#69
Even if Dio has no affiliation with Shinra, they do have troops patrolling the area. And Shinra owns pretty much everything in their world, so there's that too.

It's just, if it was me and I really needed that huge materia, I'd choose the most expeditious way. I wouldn't load it onto an old train, run it across a decommissioned railway littered with broken sleepers, take it through a tent-city full of economic refugees who hate me, load it onto a truck, drive it to a port, load it onto a ship, and sail it to Midgar. Too much could go wrong; too many chances for Avalanche to interfere. I'd put it in a chopper and fly it straight to HQ. I probably wouldn't put the Turks on the job, though. They seem rather incompetent.
I thought they wanted the Huge Materia in Rocket Town, not Midgar? Unless they were going to ship it to Rocket Town all at once, but that seems inefficient.
 
#70
Oh yeah, you're right. I don't know how they were planning to get it from North Corel to Rocket Town. By road? It just doesn't make any sense. Of course, that's part of the charm of the game. I wonder if they're going to try to fix all these nonsensical elements in the hyperealistic Remake?
 

youffie

Pro Adventurer
#71
As much as I love the game and its silliness, I have to say I wouldn't mind it terribly if the whole Huge Materia subplot got heavily rewritten. It's not just that some things don't make sense (which they don't, as this thread proves), it's all a bit… unconvincing? The Corel segment in particular feels like a waste because even if you bring Barret along and he has his tiny final moment of closure with his hometown, it falls a bit flat because it's not properly built. All these inconsistencies sure don't help.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#72
North Corel isn't really far from Rocket Town at all. They presumably would just escort it just like they did the other pieces.

Anyway, like I said, they don't need to move the people to make room for the train, because there is already room for the train. If there weren't, then when Cid's in charge the train would stop on the suspension bridge, but it doesn't, it stops right outside North Corel, as you can see at the beginning of this video clip:
I mean... There's room for the train in the sense that it just barely squeezes into the space inhabited by the town before it taps a broke-down pick up truck parked on the rail.

Beneath the makeshift town banner signifying it's border, there's immediately an obstruction on the track. They'd have to purposefully use the emergency brakes to stop right before the proper station stop. That requires such precise timing that it's just about as much risk as not caring for what the train hits, given how difficult it is to stop a full-speed train in the first place.

The train tracks themselves are broken in North Corel proper by the way, if you look at the town. The tracks leading to the presumed former station are derelict which would cause a derailment anyways.

Going back to the game and looking at the dialogue, the dude you see upon entering the town says,

Shinra soldiers came around sayin' they were gathering up all the Huge Materia. I think they're gonna bring it here by coal train, from the Corel Reactor.
So the Shinra military went through North Corel, saw the people there and warned them Corel's train was coming. Which meant Shinra either intended to have the Corel train stop exactly before the town border before the proper stop or they simply didn't care and were giving the town a warning to move or risk getting run over. Either scenario meant Shinra were gonna take the risk of possibly hitting the town anyways.
 
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#74
Because it used to be a coalmine, and since there already was a rail network, Shinra decided to use it rather than building a second one for no reason.

It's probably fair to assume that they scouted the track before putting the materia on a coal train.

Re not using a heliopter, Weapon already shot down the Gelnika, maybe they just went 'if a train crashes, we have some chance of salvaging the wreckage.'
 
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