Site Design

[Flintlock]

I think it would be easier to make our front page comments linear to suit the forum than it would be to make our forum posts non-linear to suit the front page.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I think you're right

 

[Lex]

^I agree, but then the question becomes "what happens to the previous wordpress comment threads" and will it break them, because if you look at an article with a lot of comments (LTD) then it might be OK or it might be broken.

Wait

Is this plugin going to create a thread for every article we've ever written? Probably not right?

 

[Flintlock]

Only new ones, I think.

 

[Cthulhu]

We have $15, BUT! we (i.e. I) also have just spent $200 on a new vB license and I haven't yet installed a vB 5 demo thing anywhere. I think $200 is rather steep for some tiny patches to make vB work with modern web servers, and I'd rather look into VB 5 bridges, if any.

 

[Ⓐaron]

If we upgrade to vB5 we need to be sure that we can port the skins easily and that there are good replacements for the functionality we've added on the current version of the board (thanks, statistics hack on front page, etc.). I honestly don't really care for vB4 so unless they've improved vB5 a lot an upgrade might not even be an improvement.

 

[Fangu]

So the $200 was for vB5? Or was it for 3.x? The comment thing works with 3.8

 

[Ⓐaron]

The $200 was for the upgrade which includes the most recent versions of 3.8 as well as 5.0 (it's not possible to buy them separately).

 

[Mage]

Please don't delinearise the forums, my brain can't deal with that.

 

[Cthulhu]

Well like I said, I should at the very least install it somewhere so we can take a look. Worst case scenario we'll have to redo the style (I think that took a couple of hours last time, I forgot how much) and either restart with the thanks stuff or start over. I don't know if the upgrade scripts take over the customized stuff like the user titles and whatnot, will have to fiddle with it.

On the one side I want to say I don't mind if you guys want to stick to 3.8 since it's donation money and shit, on the other hand the donation money vs my own expenses in server costs are rather skewed towards my own expenses, so it's my own money and I don't think spending all that on a patch release was worth that much, .

tl;dr IDK. I think we'll have to upgrade at one point anyway, because old software is old.

 

[Fangu]

Please don't delinearise the forums, my brain can't deal with that.

Yeah, same. Linear is gold.

I guess what I meant to imply was - if we install that comment thingy, there won't be an option to respond to individual comments on the news post/ front page post, like is possible today with WP. It will be one linear output. But I don't mind - quotes will take care of that, just like in the forums.

 

[Ⓐaron]

If vB5 is anything like vB4 then it'll take literally weeks to make the styles again. vB4's style editor is the worst thing ever invented. Barely even exaggerating.

I'd much rather stick with 3.8 if it's all the same to everyone else. I really can't stand vB4 and I doubt vB5 is much better.

 

[Lex]

Well like I said, I should at the very least install it somewhere so we can take a look. Worst case scenario we'll have to redo the style (I think that took a couple of hours last time, I forgot how much) and either restart with the thanks stuff or start over. I don't know if the upgrade scripts take over the customized stuff like the user titles and whatnot, will have to fiddle with it.

On the one side I want to say I don't mind if you guys want to stick to 3.8 since it's donation money and shit, on the other hand the donation money vs my own expenses in server costs are rather skewed towards my own expenses, so it's my own money and I don't think spending all that on a patch release was worth that much, .

tl;dr IDK. I think we'll have to upgrade at one point anyway, because old software is old.

Yop <3

I've made my feelings on upgrading clear, I want us to have the latest software and as soon as I have money I'd gladly chip in for it. If it's bought before I can properly contribute I'll donate money later.

I know it'd be a (probably horrible) adjustment Aaron, but the benefits outweigh it IMO. On top of the usual stuff (secure etc.), the price Yop quoted includes access to the forums via a mobile app that's actually designed for browsing forums. There are members here who mainly browse by mobile - I tend to avoid it unless I'm in bed and there's something I really want to read but yeah, I still think upgrading is a good idea and will happily help in whatever way I can when we do upgrade.

I know there's worries re: style stuff, but train me or something beforehand. You and me, one to one, tell me how to do this stuff and I will help you. I pick this stuff up quickly, I'm sure the admins would want to get stuck in aswell. We cannot stay on 3.8 forever.

Yop if you're going to install it on a test server I'm happy to help with that in any way I can too.

 

[Ⓐaron]

The benefits don't outweigh the adjustment, though; that's what I'm trying to tell you. vBulletin 4 is a horrible, horrible piece of software that is a downgrade from 3.8 in pretty much every way imaginable (for starters, it's way slower, especially on my phone where searching for new posts literally causes the damn thing to freeze for at least ten seconds). I suppose it's possible that 5 is better than 4, but that still doesn't mean it'll be better than 3.8.

I browse from my phone all the time. I just use the desktop style. It means a bit of resizing at times but it's not a big deal. The mobile style might be nice to have but not if it means it comes at the expense of the thanks system (which is TLS as far as I'm concerned), the wonderful statistics we have for the forum, and the overall speed of the forum (seriously, I can't emphasize how much slower vBulletin 4 is and how much more memory it uses), and all the other custom features we've built over all the years.

And I'm not sure I can show you all the things necessary to port the style over. The current skin has literally years of code I've put into it, some of which uses some advanced programming. The postbit is nearly illegible because of how complex it's gotten with all the style modifications I've put into it through the years (so people can use their own custom font formatting, disable everyone's custom font formatting, etc.).

Set up a test server with vB5 if you must but I won't approve of "upgrading" until it can be proved that it actually will improve everyone's experience and that we won't lose anything in the transition.

Basically, things are fine as they are and I don't see any sense in putting in tons of work for something that may well make people's experiences worse overall. Unless they've severely stepped up their game from vB4, the mobile style won't be worth it. If it's really that big a deal to people I can try to work on our existing mobile style.

 

[Ⓐaron]

oh, and remember how I said vB4's style editor requires you to edit literally hundreds of elements to make it look good last time someone brought up upgrading? I wasn't exaggerating. Each CSS element has its own page you have to edit separately. And there are hundreds of elements. Literally the worst design for a piece of software I have ever seen.

Don't upgrade for the love of god. We'll never successfully maintain the styles again.

 

[Lex]

I understand what you're saying Aaron, I really do. But without knowing how this stuff works I can't agree or disagree with what you're saying, because I can't properly form my own opinion.

TRAIN ME XD

I know it's cumbersome, I know it's annoying, I know it's going to be very hard. But at least one other person should know how all this shit you're talking about is implemented/ works. I keep asking you to tell me how to do things and you just go ahead and do them. I get it, the shit gets done that way, but if you disappear and we're left in the lurch it'd be good if at least one other person could sort this stuff out. I know you're not going anywhere and I'm not trying to replace your usefulness or anything, but I don't think it's right that no one else knows how all this stuff works. I've asked Yop about it and even he doesn't know off the bat.

If not me then someone else, but for the love of god Jenova teach SOMEONE.

EDIT: ^My "non-denominational" (i.e. Christian/Protestant/Non-Catholic) upbringing shows through sometimes. It always surprises me.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Well I can explain some of it but when it comes to how the postbit template works you'll probably need a programming background to explain the whole thing, if only because there are so many nested if statements and so on. :/

Not tonight though. I need to sleep.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Don't know if this matters to anyone, but I almost exclusively browse the site on my phone, and I just use the regular forum presentation. Looks and loads great.

On the topic of all that programming talk, I think it's excellent that Lex wants to take some initiative, and I encourage you to teach him what you feel capable of, Aaron. I have just enough familiarity with this stuff, though, to understand your trepidation about upgrading and your doubts about being able to effectively teach the material. I'm not sure a casual-yet-capable interest in the topic is even possible. That's why I never learned much. I just couldn't give a shit, fuck or a damn about programming itself.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Here's mock-ups of the first index.

Not many changes on this one as the page is so short. Mostly it was removing the redundant headline, and changing the sub-headlines to not be in All-Caps and removing their underline (they're links, but I still think we can work around that). I prefer the headings in the middle of the page to still be green as opposed to grey as I find that helps the reader (or at least it helps me) notice section headings better then font shape changes.

Spoiler: Index 1 current

Spoiler: Index 1 with changes

Spoiler: Index 1 with notes

 

[Flintlock]

All I see is three broken images.

 

[Lex]

^I can't see those images for some reason.

 

[Tetsujin]

Copypasting image links gives me a 403.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Woops! linked you guys to my Dropbox instead of dA!

Should be fixed now.

 

[Cthulhu]

The postbit is nearly illegible because of how complex it's gotten with all the style modifications I've put into it through the years

You say that like it's a good thing, . I'm gonna put my software developer hat on here and say that if a piece of software (or in this case a small section thereof) is so complex it would block all progress, then either the implementation was done poorly, or the feature itself needs to be rethought.

I'm gonna be harsh here. I know you (and probably a few others, IDK) get raging hard-ons for billions of postbit customizations and titles and colors and shit, but IMHO they're dumb and I wouldn't mind tossing them all.

Second, I took a glance at it and TBH it can probably be easily refactored; instead of all those 'or $post['usergroupid']==54' times 9000 you can probably do a 'if $post['usergroupid'] in [54, 62, x, y z]'. Instead of 'if usergroupid = x <b>', you can (read: should) assign CSS classes to the things that need customization and delegate the styling to CSS (you know, where it belongs).

If your solution to a problem is too complicated, it's probably wrong. I'm sure the customizations can be rebuilt with much simpler rules, without even needing to upgrade to vB 5 which I'm sure / I hope has a better template language (although IDK).

As for the style editor, as long as I can add a <link rel="stylesheet"> somewhere we can disregard it completely and work in a proper style editor, i.e. a text editor.

As for speed, I don't know, I'd have to benchmark it. Do note that since vB 4, technology hasn't stopped; the newer versions of PHP have much higher performance than the first 5.x versions, MySQL has become a significant percentage faster compared to older versions (see the upgrade thread), Facebook has released and is actively developing HHVM, a VM for PHP that gives another speed boost (random benchmark here, also look at the performance differences between php-fpm 5.4 and 5.5 - we're on 5.5 btw). Plus I'm sure there's a bunch more performance optimizations we can do; more aggressive caching, memory mapping (we're using <50% of available memory atm), etc.

TL;DR some of your arguments are invalid. I'd have to actually install and test vB 5 to confirm the speed issue though.

Here's the actual template code btw; the complicated bit you're talking about is probably at the '<tr valign="top">' bit.

$template_hook[postbit_start]
<table id="post$post[postid]" class="tborder" cellpadding="$stylevar[cellpadding]" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%" align="center">
<tr>
  <if condition="$show['announcement']">
    <td class="thead" style="font-weight:normal; border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]" colspan="2">
      <img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_statusicon]/post_$post[statusicon].gif" alt="$post[statustitle]" border="0" />
      <phrase 1="$post[startdate]" 2="$post[enddate]">$vbphrase[x_until_y]</phrase>
    </td>
  <else />
    <td class="thead" style="font-weight:normal; border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; border-$stylevar[right]: 0px" $post[scrolltothis]>
      <!-- status icon and date -->
      <a name="post$post[postid]"><img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_statusicon]/post_$post[statusicon].gif" alt="$post[statustitle]" border="0" /></a>
      $post[postdate]<if condition="!$show['detailedtime']">, $post[posttime]</if>
      $post[firstnewinsert]
      <!-- / status icon and date -->
    </td>
    <td class="thead" style="font-weight:normal; border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; border-$stylevar[left]: 0px" align="$stylevar[right]">
      &nbsp;
      <if condition="$show['postcount']">#<a href="showpost.php?$session[sessionurl]p=$post[postid]&amp;postcount=$post[postcount]" target="new" rel="nofollow" id="postcount$post[postid]" name="$post[postcount]"><strong>$post[postcount]</strong></a></if>
      <if condition="$show['inlinemod']">
        <input type="checkbox" name="plist[$postid]" id="plist_$postid" style="vertical-align:middle; padding:0px; margin:0px 0px 0px 5px" value="$post[checkbox_value]" />
      </if>
    </td>
  </if>
</tr>

<tr valign="top">
  <td class="alt2" width="175" style="border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; border-top: 0px; border-bottom: 0px">
    <if condition="$bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0"><if condition="$post['field24']"><span class="$post[field24]"></if><if condition="$post['field22']"><span style="color: $post[field22]"></if></if>
      <div style="text-align: center;">
      <div id="postmenu_$post[postid]">
        <if condition="$bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0"><if condition="$post['field20']"><span style="font-family: $post[field20];"></if></if>
        <if condition="$show['profile']">
        <a class="bigusername" href="member.php?$session[sessionurl]u=$post[userid]"<if condition="$bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0"></if>><if condition="$post['field18']"><font color="$post[field18]"></if><if condition="($bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0) and $post['field18']!='' and ($post['usergroupid']==23 or $post['usergroupid']==24 or $post['usergroupid']==5 or $post['usergroupid']==6 or $post['usergroupid']==18) or $post['usergroupid']==54 or $post['usergroupid']==62 or $post['usergroupid']==63 or $post['usergroupid']==55 or $post['usergroupid']==50 or $post['usergroupid']==48 or $post['usergroupid']==49 or $post['usergroupid']==47 or $post['usergroupid']==57 or $post['usergroupid']==40"><if condition="$post['usergroupid']==5 or $post['usergroupid']==6 or $post['usergroupid']==18 or $post['usergroupid']==54 or $post['usergroupid']==40"><b></if><if condition="$post['usergroupid']==6 or $post['usergroupid']==24 or $post['usergroupid']==40"><i></if>$post[username]<if condition="$post['usergroupid']==6 or $post['usergroupid']==24 or $post['usergroupid']==40"></i></if><if condition="$post['usergroupid']==5 or $post['usergroupid']==6 or $post['usergroupid']==18 or $post['usergroupid']==54 or $post['usergroupid']==40"></b></if><else />$post[musername]</if><if condition="$post['field18']"></font></if></a>
        <script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_$post[postid]", true); </script>
        <else />
        $post[musername]
        </if>
      </div>
      <if condition="$bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0"><if condition="$post['field20']"></span></if></if></div>

      <div class="navbar"<if condition="$bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0"><if condition="$post['field29']"> style="font-size: $post[field29]px;"</if></if>>
      <if condition="$bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0"><if condition="$post['field20']">
        <span style="font-family: $post[field20];">
      </if></if>

      <if condition="$post['rank']"><div style="text-align: center;">$post[rank]</div></if>
      <if condition="$post['usertitle']"><div style="text-align: center; font-weight: bold;">$post[usertitle]</div></if>
      $template_hook[postbit_userinfo_left]

      <if condition="$show['avatar']">
        <div style="text-align: center;">
          <a href="member.php?$session[sessionurl]u=$post[userid]">


<img src="$post[avatarurl]" $post[avwidth] $post[avheight] alt="<phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[xs_avatar]</phrase>" border="0" />
</a>
        </div>
      </if>

        <if condition="$post['joindate']"><div><strong<if condition="$post['field21'] and ($bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0)"> style="color: $post[field21];"</if>>$vbphrase[join_date]:</strong> $post[joindate]</div></if>
        <if condition="$post['age']"><div><strong<if condition="$post['field21'] and ($bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0)"> style="color: $post[field21];"</if>>$vbphrase[age]:</strong> $post[age]</div></if>
        <if condition="$post['field7']"><div><strong<if condition="$post['field21'] and ($bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0)"> style="color: $post[field21];"</if>>Sex:</strong> $post[field7]</div></if>
        <if condition="$post['field2']"><div><strong<if condition="$post['field21'] and ($bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0)"> style="color: $post[field21];"</if>>$vbphrase[location_perm]:</strong> $post[field2]</div></if>
        <if condition="$post['field5']"><div><strong<if condition="$post['field21'] and ($bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0)"> style="color: $post[field21];"</if>>AKA:</strong> $post[field5]</div></if>
        <!--<div>
          <strong<if condition="$post['field21'] and ($bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0)"> style="color: $post[field21];"</if>>$vbphrase[posts]:</strong> $post[posts]
        </div>-->
        $template_hook[postbit_userinfo_right_after_posts]
        <if condition="$show['infraction']"><div><strong<if condition="$post['field21'] and ($bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0)"> style="color: $post[field21];"</if>>$vbphrase[infractions]:</strong> $post[warnings]/$post[infractions] ($post[ipoints])</div></if>
        <if condition="$show['reputation']"><div><strong<if condition="$post['field21'] and ($bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0)"> style="color: $post[field21];"</if>>Rep/Power:</strong> $post[reputation]/$post[reppower] <!--$post[reputationdisplay]--></div></if>
        <!--<if condition="$show['reppower']"><div><strong<if condition="$post['field21'] and ($bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0)"> style="color: $post[field21];"</if>>$vbphrase[reppower]:</strong> $post[reppower]</div></if>-->
        $template_hook[postbit_userinfo_right]
        <div>$post[icqicon] $post[aimicon] $post[msnicon] $post[yahooicon] $post[skypeicon]</div><if condition="$bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0"><if condition="$post['field24']"></span></if><if condition="$post['field22']"></span></if></if>
      </div></span>
  </td>
  <if condition="$show['moderated']">
  <td class="alt2 postbit" id="td_post_$post[postid]" style="border-$stylevar[right]: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]">
  <else />
  <td class="alt1 postbit" id="td_post_$post[postid]" style="border-$stylevar[right]: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]">
  </if>
    $template_hook[postbit_messagearea_start]
    <if condition="$bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0"><if condition="$post['field24']"><span class="$post[field24]"></if><if condition="$post['field20']"><span style="font-family: $post[field20];"></if><if condition="$post['field19']"><span style="color: $post[field19];"></if><if condition="$post['field27']"><span style="font-size: $post[field27]px;"></if></if>
    <if condition="$show['messageicon'] OR $post['title']">
      <!-- icon and title -->
      <div class="smallfont">
        <if condition="$show['messageicon']"><img class="inlineimg" src="$post[iconpath]" alt="$post[icontitle]" border="0" /></if>
        <if condition="$post['title']"><strong>$post[title]</strong></if>
      </div>
      <hr size="1" style="color:$stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; background-color:$stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]" />
      <!-- / icon and title -->
    </if>

    <!-- message -->
    <div id="post_message_$post[postid]">
      $ad_location[ad_showthread_firstpost_start]
      $post[message]
    </div>
    <!-- / message -->

    <if condition="$show['attachments']">
    <!-- attachments -->
      <div style="padding:$stylevar[cellpadding]px">

      <if condition="$show['thumbnailattachment']">
        <fieldset class="fieldset">
          <legend>$vbphrase[attached_thumbnails]</legend>
          <div style="padding:$stylevar[formspacer]px">
          $post[thumbnailattachments]
          </div>
        </fieldset>
      </if>

      <if condition="$show['imageattachment']">
        <fieldset class="fieldset">
          <legend>$vbphrase[attached_images]</legend>
          <div style="padding:$stylevar[formspacer]px">
          $post[imageattachments]
          </div>
        </fieldset>
      </if>

      <if condition="$show['imageattachmentlink']">
        <fieldset class="fieldset">
          <legend>$vbphrase[attached_images]</legend>
          <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="$stylevar[formspacer]" border="0">
          $post[imageattachmentlinks]
          </table>
          </fieldset>
      </if>

      <if condition="$show['otherattachment']">
        <fieldset class="fieldset">
          <legend>$vbphrase[attached_files]</legend>
          <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="$stylevar[formspacer]" border="0">
          $post[otherattachments]
          </table>
        </fieldset>
      </if>

      <if condition="$show['moderatedattachment']">
        <fieldset class="fieldset">
          <legend>$vbphrase[attachments_pending_approval]</legend>
          <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="$stylevar[formspacer]" border="0">
          $post[moderatedattachments]
          </table>
        </fieldset>
      </if>

      </div>
    <!-- / attachments -->
    </if>

    $template_hook[postbit_signature_start]
    $ad_location[ad_showthread_firstpost_sig]

    <if condition="$post['signature']">
    <!-- sig -->
      <div>
        __________________<br />
        $post[signature]
      </div>
    <!-- / sig -->
    </if>

    $template_hook[postbit_signature_end]

    <if condition="$show['postedited']">
    <!-- edit note -->
      <div class="smallfont">
        <hr size="1" style="color:$stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; background-color:$stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]" />
        <em>
          <if condition="$show['postedithistory']">
            <phrase 1="$post[edit_username]" 2="$post[edit_date]" 3="$post[edit_time]" 4="posthistory.php?$session[sessionurl]p=$post[postid]">$vbphrase[last_edited_link_by_x_on_y_at_z_postid]</phrase>
          <else />
            <phrase 1="$post[edit_username]" 2="$post[edit_date]" 3="$post[edit_time]">$vbphrase[last_edited_by_x_on_y_at_z]</phrase>
          </if>
          <if condition="$post['edit_reason']">
            $vbphrase[reason]: $post[edit_reason]
          </if>
        </em>
      </div>
    <!-- / edit note -->
    </if>

    <if condition="$bbuserinfo['field25']=='No' or $bbuserinfo['userid']==0"><if condition="$post['field20']"></span></if><if condition="$post['field19']"></span></if><if condition="$post['field24']"></span></if><if condition="$post['field27']"></span></if></if></span>

  </td>
</tr>
<tr>
  <td class="alt2" style="border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; border-top: 0px">
    $post[onlinestatus]
    <if condition="$show['reputationlink']">
      <span id="reputationmenu_$post[postid]"><a href="reputation.php?$session[sessionurl]p=$post[postid]" rel="nofollow" id="reputation_$post[postid]"><img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/reputation.gif" alt="<phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[add_to_xs_reputation]</phrase>" border="0" /></a></span>
      <if condition="$show['popups']"><script type="text/javascript"> vbrep_register("$post[postid]")</script></if>
    </if>
    <if condition="$show['infractionlink']"><a href="infraction.php?$session[sessionurl]do=report&amp;p=$post[postid]" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/infraction.gif" alt="<phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[add_infraction_for_x]</phrase>" border="0" /></a></if>
    <if condition="$show['reportlink']"><a href="report.php?$session[sessionurl]p=$post[postid]" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/report.gif" alt="$vbphrase[report_bad_post]" border="0" /></a></if>
    $post[iplogged]
    &nbsp;
  </td>
  <if condition="$show['moderated']">
  <td class="alt2" align="$stylevar[right]" style="border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; border-$stylevar[left]: 0px; border-top: 0px">
  <else />
  <td class="alt1" align="$stylevar[right]" style="border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; border-$stylevar[left]: 0px; border-top: 0px">
  </if>
    <!-- controls -->
    <if condition="$post['editlink']">
      <img style="display: none" id="progress_$postid" src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/progress.gif" alt="$vbphrase[loading_editor_please_wait]" />
      <a href="$post[editlink]" name="vB::QuickEdit::$post[postid]"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/edit.gif" alt="$vbphrase[edit_delete_message]" border="0" /></a>
    </if>
    <if condition="$post['forwardlink']">
      <a href="$post[forwardlink]"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/forward.gif" alt="$vbphrase[forward_message]" border="0" /></a>
    </if>
    <if condition="$post['replylink']">
      <a href="$post[replylink]" rel="nofollow"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/<if condition="$post['forwardlink']">reply_small<else />quote</if>.gif" alt="$vbphrase[reply_with_quote]" border="0" /></a>
    </if>
    <if condition="$show['multiquote_post']">
      <a href="$post[replylink]" rel="nofollow" onclick="return false"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/multiquote_<if condition="$show['multiquote_selected']">on<else />off</if>.gif" alt="$vbphrase[multi_quote_this_message]" border="0" id="mq_$post[postid]" /></a>
    </if>
    <if condition="$show['quickreply'] AND !$show['threadedmode']">
      <a href="$post[replylink]" rel="nofollow" id="qr_$post[postid]" onclick="return false"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/quickreply.gif" alt="$vbphrase[quick_reply_to_this_message]" border="0" /></a>
    </if>
    <if condition="$show['moderated']">
      <img src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/moderated.gif" alt="$vbphrase[moderated_post]" border="0" />
    </if>
    <if condition="$show['spam']">
      <img src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/spam_detected.png" alt="$vbphrase[spam_post]" border="0" />
    </if>
    <if condition="$show['deletedpost']">
      <if condition="$show['managepost']">
        <a href="postings.php?$session[sessionurl]do=managepost&amp;p=$post[postid]"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/trashcan.gif" alt="$vbphrase[manage]" border="0" /></a>
      <else />
        <img src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/trashcan.gif" alt="$vbphrase[deleted_post]" border="0" />
      </if>
    </if>
    <if condition="$show['redcard']">
      <a href="infraction.php?$session[sessionurl]do=view&amp;p=$post[postid]"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/redcard.gif" alt="$vbphrase[received_infraction]" border="0" /></a>
    <else />
      <if condition="$show['yellowcard']">
        <a href="infraction.php?$session[sessionurl]do=view&amp;p=$post[postid]"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/yellowcard.gif" alt="$vbphrase[received_warning]" border="0" /></a>
      </if>
    </if>
    $template_hook[postbit_controls]
    <!-- / controls -->
  </td>
</tr>
</table>
$template_hook[postbit_end]

<!-- post $post[postid] popup menu -->
<div class="vbmenu_popup" id="postmenu_$post[postid]_menu" style="display:none">
  <table cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" border="0">
  <tr>
    <td class="thead">$post[username]</td>
  </tr>
  <if condition="$show['profile']">
    <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="member.php?$session[sessionurl]u=$post[userid]">$vbphrase[view_public_profile]</a></td></tr>
  </if>
  <if condition="$show['pmlink']">
    <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="private.php?$session[sessionurl]do=newpm&amp;u=$post[userid]" rel="nofollow"><phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[send_private_message_to_x]</phrase></a></td></tr>
  </if>
  <if condition="$show['emaillink']">
    <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="sendmessage.php?$session[sessionurl]do=mailmember&amp;u=$post[userid]" rel="nofollow"><phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[send_email_to_x]</phrase></a></td></tr>
  </if>
  <if condition="$show['homepage']">
    <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="$post[homepage]"><phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[visit_xs_homepage]</phrase></a></td></tr>
  </if>
  <if condition="$show['search']">
    <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="search.php?$session[sessionurl]do=finduser&amp;u=$post[userid]" rel="nofollow"><phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[find_more_posts_by_x]</phrase></a></td></tr>
  </if>
  <if condition="$post['userid'] AND $show['member']">
  <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="profile.php?$session[sessionurl]do=addlist&amp;userlist=buddy&amp;u=$post[userid]"><phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[add_x_to_contacts]</phrase></a></td></tr>
  </if>
  <if condition="can_moderate($forum['forumid'])"><if condition="!isset($btu[$post[userid]])"><tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="postings.php?$session[sessionurl]do=btu_ban&amp;t=$post[threadid]&amp;u=$post[userid]">$vbphrase[btu_ban]</a></td></tr><tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="postings.php?$session[sessionurl]do=btu_ban&amp;t=$post[threadid]&amp;u=$post[userid]&amp;days=$vboptions[btu_default]">$vbphrase[btu_ban] ($vboptions[btu_default] $vbphrase[days])</a></td></tr><else /><tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="postings.php?$session[sessionurl]do=btu_ban&amp;t=$post[threadid]&amp;u=$post[userid]">$vbphrase[btu_unban]</a></td></tr></if></if>
  $template_hook[postbit_user_popup]
  </table>
</div>
<!-- / post $post[postid] popup menu -->

 

[Ⓐaron]

I don't know if the "usergroup in [whatever]" is even possible with vBulletin's scripting language. It's pretty primitive.

And yeah, the implementation is a mess. Unless the scripting language supports stuff llike you said, though, I don't really know how to clean it up much.

As for the customisations, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would miss them considering how many people use them.

Using a text-generated style sheet is a good idea but doesn't solve the problem of there being entirely too many definitions to deal with.

The speed thing is definitely the sort of thing one wouldn't need to test, at least when it comes to my phone. One version freezes my phone's browser for ten seconds, the other does not.