Site Direction: Everyone Get in Here

[Fangu]

What makes a thread "4 years old" though? 4 years from when it was created? 4 years since someone posted in it? 4 years since the last Thanks?

idk it would take some massive query'ing to decide which threads should be 'nuked'. Also, one does not delete stuff on the Internet, one hides it from regular users and calls it 'deleted'. It is known

(No srsly, 'tis the truth. Because deleting might fuck up stuff bco dependencies, so it's better to just flag it as invisible.)

((Also, I disapprove of erasing history in general. If you don't want to read it, don't read it.))

 

[Lex]

We as a forum are quite funny about that stuff though. I don't think I've ever been on a forum that just leaves all the shit sitting there like it's still a Real Thing(tm), most archive their stuff and go through a bit of reorganisation, but I agree full on deletion (or hiding) is a bad way to go. Maybe just move it all to an archived section?

I've never understood why some places have such strict rules about "Necro'ing" posts, it doesn't make any sense to me. If someone has something to add to a discussion, isn't it better that they do so in a thread that's already there? Nine times out of ten it revives the discussion and that's good.

 

[Airling]

I'm very conflicted about the idea of branching out to the rest of FF. On the one hand, we are running out of things to add concerning VII. And that could negatively influence the number of new readers/members we get. But on the other hand, I got here via this, a +-5 year old article.
The thing about what TLS has done up unto this point is, it's timeless stuff that every VII enthusiast who can google will stumble upon eventually.

And that helps exactly nothing with finding answers about the site's directions. So... *Scampers off*

 

[Lex]

Well something to consider (that Flint mentioned) is that we don't necessarily need new compilation titles to create new VII content - maybe we could come up with ideas about VII related articles?

We don't do a lot of gameplay discussion for example - we do on the forums, just not on the front page. I'd like to write something related to the materia system - not just discussing it, but going into detail about what's useful when and what my personal favourite combinations are. That kind of stuff is fun to read I think. The last completionist run I did, I set it up so that when I fought Emerald Weapon I didn't actually use any attacks. The idea was to see how long I could survive without using commands, but I ended up beating him very quickly just by being creative with counterattack and counter command and counter magic materia etc. That stuff is also fun to write about.

There's one idea - any more?

 

[Carlie]

Re: Forum - Aside from splitting the gaming section out of the general section which we should really do everything else is fine as it is. Also I too get nostalgic and look at some of my old posts from time to time. Except for 2009, I find most of my posts from that year embarrassing, I was such a n00b back then. Anyways my point is just archive them and don't delete.

Re: Site - I think we should absolutely expand to the other Final Fantasy games and Kingdom Hearts. FFVII will still be the site's main focus but the game is 17 years old, there's not a whole lot to talk about it at this point that hasn't been said before. My contributions the site so far have been podcasts, commentating on playthroughs and FFU, and that opinion piece I wrote earlier this year. The only FFVII I can think of writing is an opinion piece of my experience with the game one I finish it (it's gonna happen). But when it comes to FFIX, X, XII and KH I have a few ideas that I could write.

 

[Octo]

Well something to consider (that Flint mentioned) is that we don't necessarily need new compilation titles to create new VII content - maybe we could come up with ideas about VII related articles?

I don't know everything about FFVII, but I feel like TLS has almost covered everything about FFVII (except the details of the battle/materia system)

The only suggestion I can come up with is 'articles' with a humorous angle. WTF? Moments, glitches, top 5 NPC's....I dunno, stuff like that? I don't know if that kind of thing is appropriate or not.

 

[Airling]

I just realised that there's a total lack of a walkthrough. With the knowledge shared here I think we could make an epic walkthrough.

 

[Shademp]

TLS has covered FAAAAAR from everything FFVII-wise. The problem is that nobody is obsessed enough to create the content. Examples:

- Comparing trailer footage with final game/movie
- Collecting, scanning and analysing early game/movie footage from magazines
- Translating a bazillion Japanese things that have not been translated
- Version Guides for CC and DC
- Cataloguing unused content for CC (not currently possible for DC due to the required software not being available)
- Digging into debug rooms and similar for both CC and DC, along with other code-digging
- Cataloguing unused animations, field models in the original game
- Complete English and Japanese script transcriptions/rips for OG, BC, CC, DC, Last Order.

I could list more stuff, but the red thread here is that A LOT of work and willingness to explore is required for the stuff I want to see on TLS.

I just realised that there's a total lack of a walkthrough. With the knowledge shared here I think we could make an epic walkthrough.

Absolute Steve already created the masterful walkthroughs for the original FFVII and for Crisis Core, so that ground is covered. As for Dirge of Cerberus, I *could* make a guide, but it would take a lot of time to make a guide that only even a small portion of FFVII fans would care about.

Version Guides for CC and DC are still to be created, but people are essentially waiting for me to make them (which I can't blame them for)

 

[Tetsujin]

I'd personally be for at least branching out to FFXV coverage (haven't we done that a few times? It seems a bit random sometimes what gets posted as news on the frontpage and what not. )

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I always browse by newest posts, so the index doesn't get that much use by me. I just click on threads I'm interested in.

One thing that slightly bugs me is how much of the form is labeled as private if you don't log in. It's pretty much everything that isn't Final Fantasy related. While I do get why some of it is that way (the Awards we do every year, the Debates section, etc.) some of it could really be public. I'm mostly thinking of the Gaming section, but the Entertainment, Music and Technology sections could probably be public as well with no trouble. If all you're going off of is our Final Fantasy forums, the forum doesn't look like it get's much use. If you were to take a look at a lot of our general discussions sub-sections, we're pretty lively.

I really think we should expand to other FF stuff. Not all of us were of gaming age when the originals came out.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

I know TLS has avoided becoming a hosting site for fan art and fanfiction for a while, but if we wanted to feature a spotlight on exceptional fan works I could certainly be the curator of that.

I do a bit of FF7 fan works curating already in the three groups that I manage on deviantART— one for Dirge of Cerberus, one for Lucrecia, and one for the Turks. While the submission acceptance criteria of the Lucrecia club and some of the Turks are fairly-to-incredibly liberal (due to the scarcity of fan works of those characters), general DoC fan art acceptance criteria and that of some of the more popular Turks (Reno, Rude, Tseng, Vincent) are a little tighter.

In other words, I am not shy about laying the smack down re: quality control.

And I do think that if we were to spotlight fan art (and/or fanfiction?), it would have to pass the test of "Is it so rewarding looking at this thing I'm looking at that I feel it's worth bringing to the attention of the entire community at large?" In other words, weeding out what will benefit the viewer by sharing it from what will benefit the artist by sharing it. This will separate "site that spotlights worthy fan art" from "site where anyone can upload any shit drawing they just made with crayons."

Point of this suggestion being that fan works are likely to be all that there is of new FF7 “content” at this point, at least until/if/when they decide to make another game.

 

[Lex]

That's definitely a thought, and it's a section that's been considered before but ultimately didn't pan out for various reasons.

I agree that there's a lot of great fan art out there that deserves attention, and a good idea is for authors to write articles that spotlight some of that art and fanfiction based on voting polls in the forums - a top 5 or 10 as voted by TLS if you like.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^We've definitely got enough people who read fanfics to determine what is good FFVII fanfics, and what aren't...

 

[Octo]

I like the idea of voting for stuff that we think is worthy of spotlighting - though for some of that we might need the permission off the original artists/authors -eg that amazeballs stuff Shademp posted in the Favourite FFVII fanart thread.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

I like the idea of voting for stuff that we think is worthy of spotlighting - though for some of that we might need the permission off the original artists/authors -eg that amazeballs stuff Shademp posted in the Favourite FFVII fanart thread.

Yes, generally we would need their permission to host it on our own site, but not to link to it where it exists elsewhere. I prefer the former, but the latter is always an option.

And when there is communication with the artist, we could always feature something like an artist statement with it, too. "What were you going for with this piece?" or "How long did it take you to create this?" or "What is your favorite thing about this character you drew?" or "What are some important themes from FF7 that you wanted to include in this writing?" Something relevant to whatever is being featured.

 

[Cthulhu]

Re: how people use the forums, I do what Lex does, ctrl+click ALL THE NEW POASTS! But I'm not everyone, I'm sure some people (especially new people) prefer to use the sections, so they shouldn't be neglected. More modern forum software like Discourse has a flat list of threads with perhaps tags to differentiate areas, I guess that would work if I were to start a new forum (because it's simpler / moar straightforward and shit).

Re: non-VII coverage, I don't see how it'd be a problem, as long as it's done right and consistently - and I guess as long as the focus for our special features stays with VII. But, I won't lay down no laws about where the site should head, that's not something I can decide.

Re: site development, yeah, Wordpress is kinda old fashioned (and confusing as fuck) when it comes to editing how it looks like. At least on the forums you can create a new skin and hack away with it while others use the default skin - although then you end up having to fight with vB's template system, . With that in mind I quite like how I've been building webapps for a couple years now - relatively simple codebase (get data, send to template) and whatnot. Not to mention a local development environment, which TBH is the best place to do actual development beyond flipping a color or something here and there.

And why anyone would still voluntarily work in Eclipse is beyond me, . Jetbrains' products are better.

I'm okay with putting General Gaming and Entertainment and whatnot onto the front page. I know when we set up the forums as they are back in the day we wanted to emphasize on the FF forums (whilst not making those too split up, hence the bigger categories), but at the same time if we go by activity, those general sections deserve to be on the front page as well. I'm okay with moving them.

Re: purging old posts, I'm against it; there's no technical reason to do so (there used to be, but database technology improved), and old posts are good for lulz. I'm not going to be the one that decides people's old posts no longer deserve to exist (which is probably also why I've half-arsedly kept FFOF up, ). I'm okay with moving certain topics to sections that aren't searchable though, if they clutter up search results or bring up sadfeis memories.

Re: hosting fan stuff, I think way back in the day I fiddled around with a gallery system, but the main issue was that it would be 3rd completely separated software system from the rest of the site - and for me personally, something I wouldn't visit that often. It could work, but only if it was properly integrated with the rest of the site, preferably the forums. Maybe vB 5 has a feature we can use for that?

On the other hand, fanfiction can already be hosted here, they can be posted in the forums. Of course, that takes a bit more manual management, plus we'd have to move that section out into the public so that search engines can index it (I think all the non-FF sections have been hidden from guests because of reasons).

 

[Fangu]

And why anyone would still voluntarily work in Eclipse is beyond me, . Jetbrains' products are better.

Oh my god, the point wasn't the software but the work process you fucking twat

 

[Blade]

As someone who is relatively new to this particular community (though I've been in and out of RPG communities and Fighting game communities over the years)... I'd be happy if there was just consistent and dedicated archives of information/analysis from the Ultimanias made available and accessible for everyone to discuss here.

If there's one thing I learned from hanging out with Twilight Mexican over the years... it's that content is everything. Especially canonical content and the ability to analyze and discuss it thoroughly and logically.

I never cared for pairings or shipping, I just want the facts laid bare.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Regarding putting stuff out in public, I don't really see any reason the music, entertainment and gaming forums can't be public. Everything else should stay private, especially general discussion and the debate forum. It should probably be put to a wide community discussion though. If people have content they want hidden, it seems reasonable that since it's been hidden from search engines for this long it should stay hidden.

I'm with Flint on the idea of splitting up GD. I always wondered why so many of those things were subfora of GD. Entertainment and music discussion (music can be made a subforum of entertainment if need be) don't really have much to do with the general chit chat that goes in that section, nor does the talk that goes in General Gaming (or whatever we call that section). Both those areas of discussion probably get enough attention that they're fine being out on the main site. There are possibly other sections that belong there but cba listening.

I don't really have much else in the way of thoughts right now but probably later.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Re: hosting fan stuff, I think way back in the day I fiddled around with a gallery system, but the main issue was that it would be 3rd completely separated software system from the rest of the site - and for me personally, something I wouldn't visit that often. It could work, but only if it was properly integrated with the rest of the site, preferably the forums. Maybe vB 5 has a feature we can use for that?

On the other hand, fanfiction can already be hosted here, they can be posted in the forums. Of course, that takes a bit more manual management, plus we'd have to move that section out into the public so that search engines can index it (I think all the non-FF sections have been hidden from guests because of reasons).

Not a gallery; spotlights. As in there's a blog post saying, "Hey look at this thing. Here is a picture of the thing. Here is where you can find the thing," and if someone wants to find that again they can go look for the old blog post (or, more intelligently, whatever tag will be used on all such postings). Less deviantART, more New York Times Best Sellers List.

 

[Cabaret]

Re deleting posts / hiding them etc, yeah I see your points and fair enough

I think doing other FF stuff would be cool but if there's still a lot to do on FFVII then I guess that should be padded out. Also if other areas/games were considered it'd probably be wise to get someone highly motivated to drive that area forward, or else you might end up with a lot of titles announcing very little.

 

[Ⓐaron]

The problem with saying "we should do all the FFVII stuff we haven't done yet before working on any other games" is that we might not have anyone motivated enough to do any of it. As Shademp said, a lot of that will require a lot of work. If we have people who are motivated to write content for other FFs but not for the FFVII stuff, it seems logical to focus on what people are actually motivated to write about. Not to mention that there's a metric tonne of supplemental material for other games that hasn't been translated.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Agreed with that. Most of the stuff Shademp listed, while interesting, is going to take a particular kind of person with a particular mindset (e.g. someone like Shademp =P).

Just like only particular people are going to do translations, plot analyses, thematic essays, fanfiction, etc.

 

[Octo]

So what you're saying is.......it will probably take 120 years. It's probably impossible to finish in our lifetime.

So we need to breed Shademp?

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Incidentally, wouldn't it be amazing if Hojo was totally just trolling everyone in that board room? "Lol I wonder if I can get them to actually approve this. Shits'll probably believe anything I say."