So what's your opinion on the new characters?

[spirit_chaser]

DoC revealed some new characters for FFVII, which mostly are DG's Tsviets, though. I didn't like them much, except for Weiss. He seems like an interesting character, I really look forward to see what role he's going to play in the next installment.
Reeve was also a relatively new character, I was glad that SE decided to give him a real role this time.
Shalua is my absolute favorite new character, though. I wish SE would keep her alive, she was really great. Unlike her sister, Shelke, which was totally annoying through the whole game. At least there is a hope that SE would make her more decent in the next game. :

 

[ForceStealer]

Azul was really the only Tsviet that didn't interest me, but he served his purpose as the big brute force f-you-up guy. I thought most of their designs were really cool. Weiss has sweet weapons. Rosso looks very cool and I really like her weapon too. Nero is very creepy looking.

Shalua didn't jump out at me but she wasa pretty good character, her design was a little less cool with clothes that are even a little impractical by FF standards. They may bring her back for all you know, I would prefer that they didn't, but they could. The only reason I wish she were still alive is because fangirls pairing her with Vincent would be better than the 10 year old girl. (Yeah yeah I don't care how old she "really" is, she's going to be aging from 10.)

A little OT, but when Shelke asks Vincent why someone would sacrifice themselves I was hoping for a mention of Aeris. Not angsting like Cloud or anything, it would just have been neat to see someone besides Cloud (especially Vincent) mention her.

I also agree that they did a great job with Reeve, not only do I think he was excellently cast, but thy even seemed to stick to his FF7 character pretty well, which is saying something considering they didn't have a whole lot to go on.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Shalua didn't jump out at me but she wasa pretty good character, her design was a little less cool with clothes that are even a little impractical by FF standards. They may bring her back for all you know, I would prefer that they didn't, but they could. The only reason I wish she were still alive is because fangirls pairing her with Vincent would be better than the 10 year old girl. (Yeah yeah I don't care how old she "really" is, she's going to be aging from 10.)

I think that Shalua wearing those weird clothes had something to do with her body being deformed/modified. She was wearing pretty decent clothes in BC when she was still healthy.

And I doubt that SE will bring her back to life, too. Shalua is not as important as Aerith and even she had a small amount of sceentime since her death.

As for pairings, I think that most fans like to pair up Vince with either Yuffie or Lucrecia, rather that Shalua or Shelke.
I also heard that SE is going to make her look older in the next game, but I still dislike Shelkentine, even as fanon, yuk.

A little OT, but when Shelke asks Vincent why someone would sacrifice themselves I was hoping for a mention of Aeris. Not angsting like Cloud or anything, it would just have been neat to see someone besides Cloud (especially Vincent) mention her.

This is a great idea, I think. But Shelke wouldn't understand, cos she knew nothing of Aerith.

Btw, I saw a screencap at Cloud x Aerith forums of Aerith's posters in DC. She wasn't completely forgotten

 

[Masamune]

I thought Shalua was cool (if horribly designed), and should have been the love interest in DC instead of...Shelke. :-X Her English voice actress was also perfect.

Didn't care for the Tsviets. Weiss was okay, but another silver-haired villain using katana. *yawn* Azul looked like Seymour's steroid-taking cousin, and Rosso annoyed me with her Transylvanian accent (because y'know, that makes sense growing up in Deepground). Shelke was a little punk too, and couldn't take her heel-face-turn seriously.

I'd like to see more of Argento.

 

[Max Payne]

They were all boring worthless characters with generic animu designs. Especially weiss.

 

[kunoichi]

[quote author=Dacon link=topic=397.msg10875#msg10875 date=1232817674] They were all boring worthless characters with generic animu designs. Especially weiss. [/quote]
So it's safe too say you didn't like the game then lol. But I got to agree with you, none of the characters really stood out for me either, making it an exceptionally poor game.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=kunoichi link=topic=397.msg10889#msg10889 date=1232824532]
[quote author=Dacon link=topic=397.msg10875#msg10875 date=1232817674] They were all boring worthless characters with generic animu designs. Especially weiss. [/quote]
So it's safe too say you didn't like the game then lol. But I got to agree with you, none of the characters really stood out for me either, making it an exceptionally poor game.
[/quote]

It had pretty cutscenes.

 

[kunoichi]

[quote author=Dacon link=topic=397.msg10875#msg10875 date=1232817674]It had pretty cutscenes.[/quote]
Oh of course! And if you had a few beers before playing the game it actually improved game play by 50%

 

[looneymoon]

I felt the DoC characters were one of the better concepts of the game, but they were just horribly wasted on a lame plot. I didn't even mind the game that much, but the characters and plot were just so weak. The Tsviets in particular seemed super cool but they didn't quite reach the cool potential that they had.

Shalua was decent for the role she played. I think she has the most hideous clothing of any FF character, by FAR.


[quote author=Masamune link=topic=397.msg10850#msg10850 date=1232804107]
I thought Shalua was cool (if horribly designed), and should have been the love interest in DC instead of...Shelke. :-X Her English voice actress was also perfect.
[/quote]

I never really pervieved Shelke to be any sort of love interest. Vincent seemed interested in no one but Lucrecia, it seemed. I sort got the impression of Vincent being more like a father or mentor to Shelke more than anything. She may have had a bit of a crush on him, if anything.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

If Shelke has a crush on Vincent then I think it would just be because he was the only guy that spoke to her. If her character has any dignity she would outgrow it, because such feelings weren't based on anything else. Personally I find the idea of Yuffie having a crush on Vincent to be cuter. At least she actually knows him. Not that I would find the idea of him reciprocating to either young girl anything other than nauseating.

I don't think it's fair to call Reeve a new character. He was the same Reeve he was in FF7, and even though we didn't get to see much of him there, I'm sure they had prexisting notes on his character that they built upon for DoC.

All of the Tsviets bored me. I'm honestly not sure why people like them. Shelke is a Mary Sue that I would roll my eyes at if DoC were a fanfic, and Weiss was an empty antagonist with no further depth than "hi im uber LOL"

Of course, if you consider Reeve a "new character," I do of course find Lucrecia to be wonderfully complex. And she's "newer" than Reeve considering she 1) had even less screen time in FF7, and 2) they actually did lose the notes on her and had to rebuild.

I pretty much echo everyone else's thoughts on Shalua and her outfit. Were it not for the coma, she's the only girl I think I could tolerate being paired with Vincent if he absolutely had to be paired with someone other than, you know, the woman he's actually in love with. I also think she and Reeve would have made a cute couple while we're at the pairing game. They're both so dedicated to the WRO.

My favorite new character, with the keywords being "favorite" and "new," would be Grimoire, because he's a bit twisted and interesting, too.

 

[Makoeyes987]

....How is Grimoire twisted?

 

[spirit_chaser]

I think she has the most hideous clothing of any FF character, by FAR.

I remember when I first saw her design, I thought "how could SE make such a slutty looking character, wtf?!", but then I loved her so much that her outfit really didn't bother me any longer

If Shelke has a crush on Vincent then I think it would just be because he was the only guy that spoke to her.

What about Reeve and Cid too? They both spoke to her in a very respectful and trusting manner, to which I believe she wasn't used to during her years in DG.
I think if she had a crush on Vince it was due to Lucrecia's data in her and not her personal feelings.

I don't think it's fair to call Reeve a new character. He was the same Reeve he was in FF7, and even though we didn't get to see much of him there, I'm sure they had prexisting notes on his character that they built upon for DoC.

Sure, he's not a "new" character, but it's still his first real appearance in FFVII since the original game.

and Weiss was an empty antagonist with no further depth than "hi im uber LOL"

Something tells me that there is much more to Weiss than that and SE just saved it for the next game... or maybe I just expect to much from SE?

Of course, if you consider Reeve a "new character," I do of course find Lucrecia to be wonderfully complex. And she's "newer" than Reeve considering she 1) had even less screen time in FF7, and 2) they actually did lose the notes on her and had to rebuild.

I really liked the changes in her design and story.

My favorite new character, with the keywords being "favorite" and "new," would be Grimoire, because he's a bit twisted and interesting, too.

Grimoire is my least favorite, I think. He was a good character, but his design was just off (was it absolutely necessary to make him look like Dracula? :-\ )

 

[Shademp]

Well, considering I am one of those people who dream of all DoC copies being destroyed and Square declaring it non-canon it is not surprising I dislike the characters. (An extreme wish, I know)

The tsviets were not engaging because they were just mindless soldiers following Weiss. And Rosso's design is just ridiculous; that's not a battle outfit! Shalua's design never appealed to me either because it does not seem suitable for battle.
Then again we may start complaining about the inconvenience of having a large red cape (i.e Vincent)when fighting, but it is not as noticeable as Rosso's and Shalua's choice of clothes.

Shalua's motivations are ok and Shelke evolves as a character. (By the way, I don't mind Shelke's design)
The tsviets should have been better in both personality and design. Square also shouldn't introduce accents in this manner; I can take Reeve being from a place where the accent is 'Irish', but Rosso grew up in Deepground and no one else speaks an east-european accent.

 

[spirit_chaser]

I think SE just wanted to make Rosso as vamp and creepy as possible, hence the outfit and accent. She sounded better in Japanese, though.

As for Tsveits being mindless... they were taught to follow orders without any disobedience or questions, so naturally we don't see them acting on their own accord. There was just no need to give them much of a personality.

 

[RyougaSaotome]

[quote author=spirit chaser link=topic=397.msg11014#msg11014 date=1232866556]
As for Tsveits being mindless... they were taught to follow orders without any disobedience or questions, so naturally we don't see them acting on their own accord. There was just no need to give them much of a personality.
[/quote]

I disagree, if all non-main bad guy cronies were as devoid of interesting features as the Tsveits were, than games would generally be a helluva lot boring.

They don't need intense backstories necessarily, but having something that separates them from the average generic anime bad guy would be nice.

These guys were all cliches taken right out the book.

Hell, even Weiss had nothing particularly special about him. Of course, it didn't help that we barely ever interact with him in the game. When we do, it's freakin' Hojo.

 

[spirit_chaser]

[quote author=RyougaSaotome link=topic=397.msg11027#msg11027 date=1232878222]They don't need intense backstories necessarily, but having something that separates them from the average generic anime bad guy would be nice.[/quote]

Like what? ???

 

[RyougaSaotome]

Character quirks, things that hint at perhaps more than what is there I guess?

As it stands, the vast majority of the Tsviets are just blatant cliches. Rosso is just a typical batsh&t crazy female character, Azul is the big tank character, Weiss barely has a personality unless you play the online mode. Shelk is partially there to appeal to loli fans (And Square is normally good about NOT doing that).

Nero I guess is the only I can say was a bit weird and disconcerting to me. But he didn't have nearly enough screen time.

I guess a good example of bad guys that don't get developed but stick out is Organization 13. While many of them don't get a ton of screentime or development, Their designs and their personalities are all different enough that I generally remember them well. Well developed? Maybe not, but memorable? Definitely.

Tsviets felt like throwaway characters to me.

 

[spirit_chaser]

That's what I thought too and Tsviets played their roles of one-game villains quite well.
If you take SHB as example, weren't they too quite cliche of a villains? I remember that Nojima even said something on them being typical trio of antagonists from Japanese anime/manga culture.

There just couldn't be much of a backstory to them, cos they were born and raised in DG with only one purpose - to be ruthless and powerful killers and obey orders. In this sense their lifes were pretty dull, I think.
Shelke had her backstory exposed in the game and as for Azul, I don't really care to know anything about him.

I also think that there is more to Weiss than it was shown in DC. I mean with the secret ending and CC's appearance... doesn't it hint on some greater story still waiting to be made? I think SE did all those twists for a reason.

 

[RyougaSaotome]

Believe me, my problems with the SHB run far deeper than my problems with the Tsveits. My problem isn't the idea of them, it's the characters themselves.

And again, I'm not saying they even needed a backstory so much as they needed to not be generic throw away characters.

Final Fantasy villains always left a mark in some shape or form. Hell, even Garland, in all of his two scenes in Final Fantasy, made more of an impact than these guys.

Sure there may be more plans for Weiss, I don't doubt that. But do I care is the question. In the game where he is the central antagonist, we get barely any info on him, barely any scenes with him, and essentially no interaction between Vincent and himself.

I didn't care that he was the final boss because he'd been absent for most of the game. A greater story in mind doesn't mean that the writers can slack, especially in a game where he plays the central antagonist.

 

[Masamune]

If you take SHB as example, weren't they too quite cliche of a villains? I remember that Nojima even said something on them being typical trio of antagonists from Japanese anime/manga culture.

I thought they said something about them resembling a Jpop group.

The SHM were wasted potential really, and only served as a deus ex machina for the Sephiroth fanboy/girls.

I also think that there is more to Weiss than it was shown in DC.

Perhaps, but that's academic.

I think a good example are the villains in MGS, such as FOXHOUND for instance. They are all very unique, with their own personal fetishes and rationalization. Nero was probably the only one who could fall into this category.

 

[RyougaSaotome]

Foxhound is a perfect example. Thank you Masamune.

The characters have backstories, granted, but much of that is not explored in game. Most of them only appear for their boss fight, and perhaps a few other scenes. Yet each and every one of them is a memorable character.

 

[Dark and Divine]

I liked the fact that, if Snake contacts Naomi in the middle of a boss fight, she'll give the player a mini-biography of that character.

It was, imo, a very classy way of giving more background to a specific character.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

....How is Grimoire twisted?

He seems like such a nice guy, yet he was the one who did those experiments that resulted in Nero—experiments very similar to the Jenova Project that predated the Jenova Project. So as creepy and unethical as the Jenova Project was, Grimoire did it first. He probably inspired Hollander who then inspired Hojo/Gast.

Besides, he and Vincent didn't seem particularly close. Something caused that.

Grimoire is my least favorite, I think. He was a good character, but his design was just off (was it absolutely necessary to make him look like Dracula?)

Oh his physical design was hideous and makes no sense whatsoever. They were like "LOL LETS MAKE HIM DRESS LIKE VINCENT SO YOU CAN TELL THEY'RE RELATED." And it just makes fans try to attribute everysinglegoddamnthing Vincent now owns and/or wears to his father. About the only thing I liked about his design was that, without the get-up, he looked like Vincent. (Hair, eyes, face, etc.) But we already knew Nomura was smoking crack that week when he gave Rosso the furry crotch-cape. Wtf?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Grimoire did nothing in regards to the experiments that created Nero. The scientists of Deepground were responsible; they just used Grimoire's theories and research and took his words literally. "Life being born of Terra corrupt."

Nero was born many, many years after Grimoire's death. Grimoire was never a scientist in Deepground. While Grimoire was alive, Deepground wasn't even in existence- it wasn't the place where human experimentation ran rampant at all.

And we don't know if they were close or not. DC doesn't say jack about their relationship at all.

 

[ForceStealer]

[quote author=Dark and Divine link=topic=397.msg11066#msg11066 date=1232898068]
I liked the fact that, if Snake contacts Naomi in the middle of a boss fight, she'll give the player a mini-biography of that character.

It was, imo, a very classy way of giving more background to a specific character.
[/quote]

I liked even more that the boss would sit and wait for Naomi to give Snake that biography

And I agree Ravynne, I liked his design physically, but the clothes were pretty dumb. They should put Lucrecia in a black leather cloak and belts that criss-crossed an open front ;D