Star Trek Discovery

Cloud_S

Pro Adventurer
#26
Sorry if you're a fan of Discovery but... I wasn't impressed.

Intro was exceptionally...bland. CGI visuals were rather pretty, but that's about it. The "Klingons" were...very strange. The holo-communicator was way out of place for that time-period.

Also I learned that Discovery's budget was $8-8.5 million per episode or $125 million (give or take, possibly more...I'm not sure if that figure includes actor salaries, I doubt it) for the 15 episode 1st season. IMHO, money much better spent on remastering DS9.

FYI each episode of TNG cost $70k to remaster (thus if you buy the complete series blu-ray box set, each episode costs you less than $1...and yet people complained about the initial price tag), and it would've been easier to remaster DS9 had they kept the process going beyond TNG. If they do decide to remaster DS9, they have to redo the entire "pipeline" and hopefully get the integral parts of the crew back together.

So as DS9 has 176 episodes, and at about 70k an episode=$12.3 million.



 
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Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
#28
I'm pretty mixed. By the end of the two parter I felt I had gotten used to the look of the new Klingons in the main dude at least
but then he died and all the other Klingons look worse
, Disliked the OG Star Trek noises littering the bridge of the Shenshou but it was stated to be an old vessel so I have hopes the Discovery will leave that be.

The two parter really only introduced us to the new Number Two and the new Science Officer, one is contantly impulsive while rattling off Vulcan proverbs, the other a coward. They got an uphill battle this season. the CGI budget was nice.
 

Cloud_S

Pro Adventurer
#29
$125M for a first season of an as-of-yet unproven series that relies mostly on nostalgia? Flipping heck.
Worst part is that's only for 15 episodes. With that high figure, they could've remastered both DS9 and Voyager (basing calculations on the 70k per episode remaster cost of TNG, so 12.3 million for DS9, 12 million for VOY, and around 24.3-26 million for both), which combined have 348 episodes.

Even accounting for the cost of rebuilding the system they had in place in additon to the remaster at say... 40-60 million... that's far less than 125 million.

So instead of remastering nearly 350 episodes, they'd rather spend it on 15.

 
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Tetsujin

Ready for the mosh pit, shaka brah
AKA
Tets
#31
Even accounting for the cost of rebuilding the system they had in place in additon to the remaster at say... 40-60 million... that's far less than 125 million.

So instead of remastering nearly 350 episodes, they'd rather spend it on 15.
Because a new series has the potential to actually make that money back, the remasters most likely don't because they require people to buy the Blu-rays and TNG was already behind expectations.
 

Cloud_S

Pro Adventurer
#32
Even accounting for the cost of rebuilding the system they had in place in additon to the remaster at say... 40-60 million... that's far less than 125 million.

So instead of remastering nearly 350 episodes, they'd rather spend it on 15.
Because a new series has the potential to actually make that money back, the remasters most likely don't because they require people to buy the Blu-rays and TNG was already behind expectations.

That potential profit may be in jeopardy. It seems people aren't willing to pay for CBS All Access, and are pirating Discovery. If it continues, and more and more people download or watch it via an unofficial stream... they're not going to make much profit.

I can't argue that TNG didn't sell as well as they expected (I still don't understand why that happened... TOS sold well enough to warrant work on a TNG remaster). I feel like people didn't understand the reasoning behind the cost of the TNG blu-rays, or not enough was done to market it.

Certainly I think that if a casual Trek viewer were to watch this unofficial teaser for DS9 season 4 (more here), they'd want to see it in HD. Personally even though I've seen that season at least three times now, I had goosebumps. Just so well done and really does the job of grabbing the viewer.




Even these re-rendered scenes (done by one of the CGI modelers who worked on DS9, apparently still had the assets) alone are quite impressive:






A fan managed to recreate Voyager's title sequence in 4K. I know there are mixed opinions on Voyager... but it does have a very beautiful intro.



I honestly just want to see DS9 and VOY remastered for the sake of preservation. The film isn't going to last forever, and it would be great for present and future generations to be able to enjoy the entire line of Trek spin-offs in the same clarity as the TOS and TNG remasters have.
 
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Tetsujin

Ready for the mosh pit, shaka brah
AKA
Tets
#33
TOS was comparatively cheaper to remaster as everything was edited on film already. Also, that was just before streaming started dominating iirc.

TNG sets were pretty expensive (regardless if the cost is technically justified for the effort, it is still hecking expensive for your average consumer (like me :monster: )) and came out at a time where people would rather stream on Netflix.

And as much as I like the disc format for the better image quality, even I ended up not buying TNG as I had initially planned to because it was just more affordable to get a Netflix subscription and watch it there :monster:
And Netflix money apparently isn't enough for the remasters. They need those disc sales.
 
#34
I got the TNG blu-ray sets for Christmas, they're beautiful. Obviously Netflix is more than serviceable, but they are extra pretty when not being streamed. And it was SO much more reasonably priced than those old DVD sets used to be. It used to cost $700 to get the whole show on DVD, which was preposterous. The blu-ray set was like $150.
 
#35
Watched episodes 1 & 2 of Discovery last night and, overall, I really liked it. The cinematography and the CGI effects are stunning, and the pacing of the plot was handled with care. I completely understand and see the need to incorporate technology from today into the vision of Star Trek, so I have no issues with the holo-tech and the more advanced looking consoles. I thought all the switches and dials worked well, especially with the old sound effects.

Similarly, I loved the political message that was incorporated into this new sect / House of Klingons. They appear very menacing in their need for purity, let alone their visual appearance. I can see a lot of commentary coming off of this, and I'm glad that Star Trek is tackling this.

The character interplay was also extremely well done, and I love that we're still going to get some of those dynamics going forward.

It was never going to be something that we've just had before and I'm glad that they've taken the risk that they have. Really looking forward to seeing how the season develops.
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
#36
Just watched the first two myself yesterday. I can see where the criticism comes from, but I do think it'll stand on its own - it just doesn't seem to fit inside any of the other continuities. It does follow the trends / wossnames set by the recent films though, making the characters a bit more human. Although tbf it's been a bit campy so far, characters falling into stereotypes and shit. Also, why are there only three characters on the Starfleet side? Why are the two highest ranking officers the ones that go out and do the most dangerous missions?

Okay so yeah now I think about it, that annoys me the most - Star Trek has always had a rather wide and diverse cast, bigger than most series until series like Game of Thrones, Firefly and (comparably) The Expanse came along; those series (iirc) all got a bit of criticism for the first episodes for introducing too many characters at once, so maybe Discovery is trying to avoid that, but maybe they're overdoing it here.

Then again, Kirk did most of the hard / cool work in the recent movies too, so maybe they're going for that? Except they're not, because these guys are a bit more hard-assed / formal than the movies, especially the cap'n.

Not sure about the Klingon reboot/redesign, they used to be much more of a noble warrior race that could be reasoned with at least during/after TNG. Off course, this being a prequel to those, not sure how they used to be so. I'm just a Worf fanboy, he was cool. For a p'tach.
 
#37
I think one thing that's going to be difficult for the show to overcome is that so many of the niggling problems could have been so easily avoided by just setting it after Voyager. Just make it the next next generation, and now the tech is fine and the Klingon changes are more easily explained. You could still easily do the human-raised-on-Vulcan angle if you really need to. Hell, make her Tuvok's ward, if you need a connection that badly.

While I don't really care about the tech level (touchscreens and stuff), I wish they had at least made an attempt to have a similar color scheme to the original series. With reds and oranges, instead of black and blue everywhere. Especially combined with the TOS sound effects, it really calls attention to how it looks nothing at all like what it's supposedly going to in 10 years.
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
#38
Oh yeah, speaking of which, I watched a random YT video the other day that was about why Star Trek never went beyond Voyager, timeline-wise - and probably other sci-fi too. It's like, beyond Voyager things would be "too nice", or something? Can't find it anymore.

I think the / a problem with sci-fi is that on the one hand, what used to be science fiction in the last 50 years is pretty close to reality now. Any sci-fi made now is scrutinized by modern developments - TNG's "PADDs" are crap compared to current-day smartphones, for example. Maybe it's also that the writer's imagination has run out, and they can't think of something that is too much more advanced than what we have right now.
 

Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
#39
Another Klingon war right after DS9 would have seemed even more regressive. And a Starfleet crew that is at each others throats post Kirk and Picard in general seems to go against what we know of Star Trek.
 
#40
But if it's 80 years after Voyager (like TNG was 80 years after TOS), basically anything is fair game. Also the Klingons having cloaking tech wouldn't be an outright retcon :monster:
 

Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
#41
But if it's 80 years after Voyager (like TNG was 80 years after TOS), basically anything is fair game. Also the Klingons having cloaking tech wouldn't be an outright retcon :monster:
Anything set long after Voyager should have a Starfleet full of reverse engineered Borg tech and perfect Warp 10.
 
#42
Eh, the Warp 10 thing was dumb anyway. Just redo the warp scale like they did, again, between TOS and TNG.

Obviously there would still be inconsistencies, but they would be much more for the hardcore nerds than this, where it's blindingly obvious that there is no way Kirk's Enterprise is coming out 10 years later.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#43
But if it's 80 years after Voyager (like TNG was 80 years after TOS), basically anything is fair game. Also the Klingons having cloaking tech wouldn't be an outright retcon :monster:
Anything set long after Voyager should have a Starfleet full of reverse engineered Borg tech and perfect Warp 10.
Would they have anything of the Borg to do that with after "Voyager" ended? Or are you suggesting Seven of Nine would be able to do it with whatever normal stuff they have on Earth?
 

Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
#44
But if it's 80 years after Voyager (like TNG was 80 years after TOS), basically anything is fair game. Also the Klingons having cloaking tech wouldn't be an outright retcon :monster:
Anything set long after Voyager should have a Starfleet full of reverse engineered Borg tech and perfect Warp 10.
Would they have anything of the Borg to do that with after "Voyager" ended? Or are you suggesting Seven of Nine would be able to do it with whatever normal stuff they have on Earth?
Don't see why not. Seven's dronebay was just an empty cargobay before she walked into it.
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
#46
Plus Voyager has everything they learned stashed into a computer and, iirc (I'm sorta watching the last season now, never did manage to see the last episodes iirc), sent those over while flying around. So they have the tech, along with the tech and/or information about half a billion other species.

Still irrellevant though, the Borg are absolute and can't be beaten and shit. They will adapt. RIP universe. Resistance is futile.
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
#48
oh noes the whole crew and computer gets amnesia.

Or wait no, there was this Star Trek movie that did time travel shenanigans and retconned the whole continuity. As if any time travel shit didn't do that already :monster:. As if all of the series is not just one of many of Q's alternate dimension fuckeries.

Fucking Q, man.
 

trash panda

---m(O.O)gle---
AKA
Howl
#49
Dewd. Is anyone else watching this? I think last time I watched Star Trek was...hmmm....probably Voyager. This is the first one I've been able to get into since then. I'm a Paul Stamets groupie so seeing his namesake on the show is extra exciting. :awesome:
 
#50
Recently watched all available episodes of Star Trek Discovery. All and all, I quite enjoy the show. It's a neat modernization of Star Trek.

My main gripe is that there are too few quiet moments. The camera feels like it's always moving and spinning, sometimes to the point of making me dizzy even in scenes when people are just talking.

While waiting for new episodes of Star Trek Discovery I've now begun watching the original Star Trek show. This is the first time I feel motivated enough to do so. Let's just say that the pilot episode of the original show (the pilot with Christopher Pike) was laughably bad and I'm so happy that Discovery made me watch it.

The original show also gives me that nice change of pace I'm looking for. The camera is usually static or moving slowly and I just love it.
 
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