Star Wa- I mean FFXII Love discussion Thread

[Zealkin]

Hmm Romance was almost entirely tossed aside in ff12 imo, the only thing you absolutely know that is canon is AshexRasler, and in RW PeneloxVaan(PeneloxLarsa 4evuh though)

I didn't see any AshexBalthier Romance going on at all, and him giving back her ring seemed to cut everything that even remotely hinted at them being together.

Fran and Balthier did have more hints with Balthier's flirting in RW and the original game, but I guess you can't automatically assume they're canon.

 

[Edley]

Old thread is old. Just got done playing this again and my opinions didn't really change. It's homeless Shakespeare, but it's pretty homeless Shakespeare.

AshexRasler. It's a pretty flimsy romance imo even if you read the manga, but she's not really over arrow boy. Balthier gives her ring back at the end and really their connection is based more on the fact that Balthier helps her see past her grief enough to save her kingdom. She cares about Basch and he would probably miss her, but their relationship is one of knight and ward and it's not developed upon.


Fran/Balthier. It sneaks up on you because they stick to the business associate side of it, but Fran's really the only character who could tolerate Balthier's cheekiness for any extended period. She mentions Balthier's wooing techniques in RW and tells Balthier he's more of a supporting role as he carries her out of the sky fortress. It's a bit more than friends with benefits and less than wedded bliss.

Vaan/Penelo. They're inseparable. "Every sky pirate needs a pirate" She kisses him in RW.
I think Larsa had a bit of a crush on Penelo, but it's not developed. But that one's easy to see.

 

[Carlie]

How bad is it that it took me this long to realize that my post from the LTD was split into this thread?

I think Fran and Balthier have a friends with benefits relationship and I can't really see it as more than that. I think Vaan and Penelo are the only actual canon couple besides Ashe and Rasler. I'm fan of the pairing, I think they're cute and adorable together unlike someone here that refuses to even admit they're canon because of delusions that Larnerlo is the OTP of the game

 

[Zealkin]

It's a bit more than friends with benefits and less than wedded bliss.

This. You know they're close and have something going on, and they just seem too cool for school to even talk about it. It's not really relevant to the plot either so why bother.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Am I the only one here to liked BaschxAshe?

Before you judge me I must say I never played FFXII and has only watched FMV's and I'm a sucker for princess-knight pairings. I ship them because Judge Basch plus Ashe looks good at the ending with the and the "she misses you" is shiptastic. Their story is also a good setup for a star-crossed lovers fanfic (Basch being a false judge of another country and Ashe being queen.)

But that was before I learned that Basch is 17 years older than her and that his default outfit has a potholder and is not as cool as the judge armor. Now...sometimes I want to forget that I shipped them.

 

[Celes Chere]

unlike someone here that refuses to even admit they're canon because of delusions that Larnerlo is the OTP of the game

Bitch, that's not why. Vaan and Penelo feel like siblings to me... it's hard for me to ship them together. They're always picking at each other like brother and sister too. IDK, I preferred the family bond I feel like they had. :c

 

[Flintlock]

^ I completely agree. I never thought of Vaan and Penelo as being even potential love interests, because they felt like siblings. I thought Balthier and Fran were obviously involved with one another, but don't ask me to give proof, because that game was far too long for me to remember all of it.

All things considered, the only thing we can really say is that the game didn't have much of a romantic thread to its story. I don't think that's a terrible thing; it can be excruciating when you know after the first hour of gameplay that the main male character is going to hook up with the main female character eventually, but they spend the whole rest of the game dancing around each other and never making a definitive move.

 

[Marle]

For the first time in a FF, I did not give a fuck about romance in this. xD The only thing I sort of ship is Vaan and Penelo because just from the opening sequence, I knew something was going on and it was cute. I never felt like they were siblings, I always got the childhood friends turned to lovers vibe from them. :T

I love Balthier but I ship him with no one. I just can't see him being...romantical and shit. It's Balthier. If anything, he'll have some casual sex, show that he cares by saving your life if you're ever in danger but otherwise...don't expect flowers and chocolates and dinner dates.

The only person he seems to really care for on a more than friends level is Fran, imo. I don't like nor care for the ship because I prefer seeing it as this awesome bro/friendship/partner thing instead. If they had had sex at one point, so be it. The friendship endured and they're partners for life.

Honestly, I never really saw where Balthier/Ashe even came from (I'M SORRY BB I STILL LOVE YOU)? I never saw it. If anything, I saw some implied Ashe x Vaan and that shit is just. Fuck no. No.

And if I have to ship someone with Ashe, it would be Basch. Pft, like age matters to me when it comes to shipping. I feel like Ashe is an old soul and she needs someone older. But truthfully, I don't care about Ashe all that much. Don't hate her but didn't love her, either?

In the end, when it comes to shipping in FFXII, Vaan and Penelo had many moments and I'm happy with that.

 

[Masamune]

But that was before I learned that Basch is 17 years older than her and that his default outfit has a potholder and is not as cool as the judge armor. Now...sometimes I want to forget that I shipped them.

If you feel the characters make a good match, then I fail to see why you would change your mind because of the age gap. Seems rather prudish to me.

 

[Carlie]

Bitch, that's not why. Vaan and Penelo feel like siblings to me... it's hard for me to ship them together. They're always picking at each other like brother and sister too. IDK, I preferred the family bond I feel like they had. :c

I never said it was you sweetie.

I never saw them as siblings, like Ava I saw them as childhood friends that liked each other in a 'more than friends' kind of way. Now Larza and Penelo gave me the big sister little brother vibe.

 

[Danseru-kun]

If you feel the characters make a good match, then I fail to see why you would change your mind because of the age gap. Seems rather prudish to me.

They look good on the ending when I don't know much about them and there are good fanfics about them. At first I didn't mind that Basch is way older than her, but once I got to know them more and get the picture that Basch is a way more mature, dedicated guy who is probably married to his kingdom I turned away from viewing them romantically. Next time I'll elaborate stuff better.

 

[Zealkin]

But that was before I learned that Basch is 17 years older than her and that his default outfit has a potholder and is not as cool as the judge armor. Now...sometimes I want to forget that I shipped them.

Doesn't stop me with Yuffentine age doesn't really matter to me

I have to agree with Celes too, when they kissed in RW I was more than disappointed, I liked the Larnelo dynamic way better, but hey what can you do except read fanfiction and eat junkfood

 

[lithiumkatana17]

REEEEEVIIIIIIIVAAAAAAAL!!!!!!!!!!!


About the canon pairings--I thoroughly enjoyed the fact that there weren't any--gives me the complete freedom to ship anyone with anyone. And what's weird is that you could pair Ashe with Vaan, Balthier, or Basch and it wouldn't be that outrageous.

But Basch is mine. She can't have him.

It's hilarious, an old buddy of mine recently bought some old games to play on PS2, and one of them, coincidentally, was XII. One of the first things I told him (besides how much he'll love it, and he did), was to count as many Star Wars parallels as he could.

Also, on May 4th this year, when I spammed my Facebook feed full of Star Wars shit, I posted this lovely video, I'm sure some of you have to have seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nWqEymWfCc

Does anyone remember how many hours they spent on their first playthrough? I think mine was around 127... I'd have to check my memory card to be sure though, I still have it saved on there.

 

[Ghost X]

I don't remember how many hours I spent, but I made sure to thoroughly complete the game in my first outing.

 

[Fangu]

REEEEEVIIIIIIIVAAAAAAAL!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I spent about 80 hours on my first playthrough, but I'm not sure if that's with or without Yaguy Darkblade farming and killing Yiazmat... since then I must have clocked in like a thousand hours on this game, I kid you not. Currently I'm playing IZJS for the first time - I've got only the Bahamut to go, haven't done a lot of side questing.

I should do a completionist run soon.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

I think I got a lot of the side quests done during my first play through, with a lot of grinding done too. I know I hunted a lot of marks, both regular and elite, but I never got to Yiazmat until I started another playthrough down the road.

I know after I got those Embroidered Tippets I just dropped the mission at hand and started to level up the whole party. I know some strategy guides try to tell you just to level up your three main fighters, but I could never do that--not in XII, not in any game. Everyone always has to be on par with each other.

I applaud you Fangu for playing the IZJS; I don't think I'd have the patience to play through it when everything is in Japanese. I have to be able to read my menus, dangit!

 

[Clement Rage]

Penelo/Vaan was one of my favourite relationships in 12, whether romantic or not, because of how unflashy it was, there were no declarations of undying love, no insecurities, no significant conflicts (beyond playful snark or "Vaan, stop doing stupid stuff"), they just had that bond and it was never in doubt.

Larsa I think takes his relationship with Penelo more seriously than she does.

Ashe/Rasler was fine, although I think maybe she doesn't know him as well as she thinks.

Ashe: You were not one to seek base revenge!

Rasler's last words : For my father! For my fatheeeer!

Never particularly thought about anything else. Had a hard time taking Balthier and Fran seriously because I kept drawing Star Wars parallels. Then that big dogfight at the end happened. You could really transcribe a lot of dialogue.

Vayne: You want this, don't you? Give in to your hatred! Strike me down with it!

Larsa: No.

Ondore: My God! That thing's operational! Focus all fire on the Alexander!

Ondore's aide: We won't last long against imperial star destroyers at that range!

Ondore: We'll last longer than we will against that Sky Fortress.

Gabranth: Take off this mask. Let me look upon you once with my own eyes.

Basch: But you'll die.

Gabranth: Nothing can stop that now.

 

[Flintlock]

One day, I'm finally going to watch the Star Wars films and think "holy shit, there are so many Final Fantasy XII references in here!"

Does anyone remember how many hours they spent on their first playthrough? I think mine was around 127... I'd have to check my memory card to be sure though, I still have it saved on there.

Well over 100 hours.

 

[Dragonslayer Ornstein]

The canon pairings were Balthier x the whole female cast and Vaan x his hand.

 

[Fangu]

Balthier x The Strahl.

There is fanfic

 

[Lex]

I came across this comment on Kotaku and I'm in love with it:

Final Fantasy XII is a tale of ideological feud between immortal demigods regarding the mortal races capacities for self-governance. The Occuria by and large believe that unless they periodically use puppet kings to forcefully reunify Ivalice, the mortal races will cause their own extinction, with Venat playing the role of Prometheus by basically telling its peers “Fuck You! I’ll make you give up your hegemon by giving the blueprints of our magic nukes to the mortals”

 

[lithiumkatana17]

I came across this comment on Kotaku and I'm in love with it:

Final Fantasy XII is a tale of ideological feud between immortal demigods regarding the mortal races capacities for self-governance. The Occuria by and large believe that unless they periodically use puppet kings to forcefully reunify Ivalice, the mortal races will cause their own extinction, with Venat playing the role of Prometheus by basically telling its peers “Fuck You! I’ll make you give up your hegemon by giving the blueprints of our magic nukes to the mortals”

Ahhhhh I love it!!

 

[Flare]

I didn't know this thread existed until now, and since I'm currently playing Star--er, FFXII, I have to put in my 20 cents.

Lithium, I agree with you on that you can ship the characters together in several different ways and, oddly enough, you could see most of them working out.

My thoughts on Balthier/Fran: I think the fact that they have this unbreakable bond is the best part, whether or not they're just buddies/comrades or whether they've been in a relationship or actually ARE in one during the game.
However, saying that, I always felt they were more than just comrades. I think a couple parts between the two makes it seem like they are in a sort of romantic relationship. Not one where they're making out in public, but it seems so... I dunno, subtle. Like they don't have to show it off for it to be there, they don't have to tell people or anything. It's just there, between the two of them.
Now, interesting to note, there's an NPC in Rabanastre's aerodome that comments on seeing Baltheir standing nearby. He says Balthier is the most famous sky pirate and whatnot for the deeds he's done, but stops short of mentioning them all, instead ending with "But you'll have to wait until you're older to hear those." Makes me think Baltheir's probably stolen some women's virginity or something close. Now this does seem like him, so does this mean him and Fran are not in any romantic relationship? Well it is open to interpretation in the game, but to me, it just seems like they're together in that way to me.
Like someone above said, not like a 'married' relationship, but still, they seem like soul mates to me in a way.

Oh, and Ashe... at times she seems like she could go with Vaan or Baltheir, but I never pictured her with Basch. I'll keep playing and see if there's anything worth noting in the game between them.
She just seems hung up on Rossler. Which is kind of nice, as it shows she actually loved him, but it doesn't open up much room for other romances.

Vaan and penelo is canon, right? But Penelo and Larsa are cute together... When I first played the game, I thought those two would get into a relationship in the future. As for Vaan and Penelo, they do seem like friends forever or childhood-friends-turned-sweethearts.
As for that being odd to some, at least it's the childhood sweetheart taking over sibling-like relationship, and not them becoming sweethearts but finding out their siblings.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

I think the closest to canon couple in XII has to be Vaan and Penelo. I think the relationship with Balthier and Fran borders on romance, but I think it's more of a really strong bond, that they complete and total faith and trust with each other. You can have strong friendships without it bordering on romance. Which is why it irks me some times when people constantly pair characters up romantically, whether it be same sex or not, just because they're really good friends. But that's neither here nor there.

I like the fact that there aren't any clear cut pairings. Leaves me free to pair Basch up with anyone I want in fanfics!

 

[Fangu]

Yeah, the only canon couple in XII really is Ashe and Rasler.

Re: Balthier and Fran - I started writing them as a smut ship, went on to romantic smut, then to romantic shipping (my 80k fic is a what if Balfran), then back to a more experimental (better!) erotica, and finally landed on comrade/ friendship/ partners/ comfort, and to be honest, writing the latter is so much more rewarding. Out of all the stories I've written of them, this kind of angle ended up being my favourite. Because there is so much to their personalities that make the one compliment the other. So much fun can be poked at both ends. So much comfort and trust can be found.

That being said, they were a great source for writing relationship/ romance smut as well. They are so versitile.