Suggestions for improvements

[Starling]

This thread is intended to provide everyone with a place to give general feedback on things they think could be improved, added, changed, etc on the forums. Lately, I've noticed member input on various things concerning the forums is rather low, exemplified by the rather low activity in this section and how no one in the mod nominations had any suggestions for improvements when asked, aside from vader mentioning reducing the amount of sub-forums. Hopefully this thread will help in that regard, though further input on other things that would improve member feedback and participation in matters concerning the forums would be appreciated.

For my part, I think the FAQ and general accessibility of basic information about the forums needs to be improved. New members are constantly asking the same questions when first joining because someone has to personally inform them of things they should've been able to look up on their own. I'm aware not all of them would think to do that but you also get more experienced members frequently wondering about other matters such as what the different user titles correspond to. Right now, clicking the FAQ button just gives you a search bar, where it'll only show you results corresponding to whatever you type in. However, if you type in a word it doesn't find anything for, such as rules, you have to leave the page in order to try again, as refreshing it doesn't return you to the search bar. A search option is nice and all but a menu listing the questions the FAQ answers instead of not seeing anything until you type the right word would be more effective, as well as allow people to see what the entire contents of the FAQ looks like, so they won't waste their time looking for information it doesn't have. From what I've seen of the FAQs, it also isn't very informative on anything outside of basic forum functions such as how to post, delete posts, use PMs and so on.

If not in the FAQs, then basic information about this specific forum could be put in a stickied thread the same way the rules are:

1. Basic information like new members not being able to edit their posts and how long it takes before they gain full member status to do that, upload images and such should be easily accessible for the benefit of new members. Likewise, a readily accessible reference for the user titles would be useful as well, for those who haven't memorized it or which post in what thread brought it up how many years ago.

2. There should be a place where members can look up stuff like how the different methods of contacting staff are processed, particularly the differences in the different methods, which method of contact is preferred under what circumstances and so on. This would cover the difference between reports, PMing a specific staff member and using the private feedback forums.

3. There should also be more detailed information about member privacy, such as the circumstances in which staff can view or pass along PMs, whether or not they require the member's notice and permission to post PMs in the staff section and such.

4. More detailed information about staff conduct (what staff can and can't do regarding their position and what it entails) so everyone has a common understanding of staff privileges and whether one has overstepped their bounds on something or acted in ways they shouldn't given their position.

5. Establish some basic guidelines about making changes to the forums that'll prevent a repetition of how the thanks thread was handled. It went from a simple poll gauging opinions regarding the thanks system to making changes to the forums in two days, assumed the poll was representative of opinions regarding suggestions made after its creation instead of making a separate poll with the various options to vote for, didn't take the time to properly discuss whether or not the thanks system was actually the root cause of the problems mentioned and instead assumed the thanks system was at fault without further examining the issue.

When problem solving, to assume something is the cause of a problem due to people associating the two isn't always correct, such as when people assume mass shooters are mentally ill instead of really amoral people willing to kill due to bigotry or just for the sake of it. You need to actually examine the issue, isolate the given problem from proposed causes and look at all the possibilities instead of the one you think it is. It's like the scientific method. There's a whole process of questions and observations that need to be made before you can come up with results that prove or disprove the initial hypothesis, which in this case would be that the thanks system is the cause of the problems people have had with debates.

The other issue with what happened was the assumption that implementing the thanks free section doesn't require re-verifying member input regarding changes to the forums, nor giving at least a week for said input to be made. Any less and people don't have time to respond with a thought out opinion on the matter because they're too busy rushing to keep up with it all to really think about it beyond gut reactions. If staff's going to improve the forums for the community, then the community should have the opportunity to give input about changes being made, no matter how benign they may seem.

Some of these could be added to the rules post, which hasn't been updated since 2012. If necessary, a separate thread could be made just to discuss what could be done to update it.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

I do have to agree with Starling on the issue of the FAQ. Although I know my way pretty well around the forums again, but a menu listing basic questions and branching off from there would definitely be a welcome change, and would really help out with new members (if any of them bother to stick around longer than a few days lol).

If I were any good at that type of stuff I definitely wouldn't mind helping facilitate that type of change.

 

[Flare]

Trying to think of things that I didn't know when I joined... As far as technical stuff goes, I remember the thing I knew nothing about was stuff like spoiler tags, youtube tags, and the like. I knew absolutely nothing about it all and had no clue how to do it. I think it'd be cool to have a handy chart of all the tags and how you do them, so anyone (especially newcomers) knows how to use them and has something to reference instead of asking others about it or trying to figure it out on their own (I think I did a mix of this whenever I could ).
This is presumably something that would belong in the FAQ.

As for anything else, I can't really think of anything right now.
It should be noted that I don't think I ever checked the FAQ and this is the first forum I ever joined in my life and was new at everything, so I kinda just felt my way along and observed the best I could to figure things out (because that's how I am), only asking questions when I really had to. Iirc I asked about spoiler tags and the like, and that's all I can think of right now that I was curious about at the time.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^There's a handy link to all the BBC coding avalable in the footer on every page (where it says "BB code is On"): http://www.thelifestream.net/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode

 

[Flare]

^....see I did not know that at all. Wow, that's pretty handy. Thanks!
Also I wouldn't have known that BB code stood for those things. Again, that's signs of my newbie-ness showing still

 

[Claymore]

The other issue with what happened was the assumption that implementing the thanks free section doesn't require re-verifying member input regarding changes to the forums, nor giving at least a week for said input to be made. Any less and people don't have time to respond with a thought out opinion on the matter because they're too busy rushing to keep up with it all to really think about it beyond gut reactions. If staff's going to improve the forums for the community, then the community should have the opportunity to give input about changes being made, no matter how benign they may seem.

To be honest, I would argue the other side of this. I personally think that this forum runs just a little too much on 'committee' or 'community' input. Everyone has their say on literally any tiny thing on this forum, and if one person disagrees, it usually quickly descends into chaos. Ultimately this leads to a lot of things just not getting completed or achieved, or in the case you specifically mentioned, a quick fix is just slapped on in order to appeal to both parties. But that just means that, a lot of the time, that issue isn't actually fixed, or it feels like the forum gets stuck in a rut with very little progress being made in any actual area.

This is a community, so it makes basic sense that everyone should have an input in the development of said community ... but only up to a point. I think that, after some community input, staff should be able to put their foot down and just implement something instead of (what I've seen here in the past) endless discussions and back and forths that end up creating nothing and satisfying no-one. If it doesn't work, then a different change can be made and more input sought, but, I don't know, there's just a little too much community input in everything at the moment. I think it's holding the forum back a little.

I never thought I'd hear a VII remake in my lifetime, but it's here. This place should be jumping with improvements, cleanups, discussions, new themes, new forums, etc... but, and I'm not blaming anyone here, so much goes through a committee of the community that not much progress has actually materialised.

That's just my thought anyway.

When problem solving, to assume something is the cause of a problem due to people associating the two isn't always correct, such as when people assume mass shooters are mentally ill instead of really amoral people willing to kill due to bigotry or just for the sake of it. You need to actually examine the issue, isolate the given problem from proposed causes and look at all the possibilities instead of the one you think it is. It's like the scientific method. There's a whole process of questions and observations that need to be made before you can come up with results that prove or disprove the initial hypothesis, which in this case would be that the thanks system is the cause of the problems people have had with debates.

I was more annoyed that the conversation seemed to be bolted only to 'the thanks system in debates' when there was a broader issue with the thanks system as a whole, but that's a beast that needs to be tackled another day. Let sleeping dogs lie and all that.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I think there should be a "New Members" officer (or "Welcome Officer", "Official Greeter",or whatever you want to call them), to whom new members can direct all their questions without feeling as if they're being a nuisance. When a new member makes an introduction thread the Welcome Officer can introduce himself/herself and encourage the new member to come to them with questions.

 

[Geostigma]

I'm going to preface this by just giving you a tl;dr : I think the majority of this is useless

P.S. Also drunk. Screw you guys this is my friday night don't look down on me I work weekends!

I will now go on to rant for about 2000 words or so about why I believe it's useless. Additionally I will repeat an almost year old Joke that only Lex may remember.

P.S. Lex. Just do it. Do it Lex. Just do it.

P.S. I know you wont but just do it anyway

This thread is intended to provide everyone with a place to give general feedback on things they think could be improved, added, changed, etc on the forums. Lately, I've noticed member input on various things concerning the forums is rather low, exemplified by the rather low activity in this section and how no one in the mod nominations had any suggestions for improvements when asked, aside from vader mentioning reducing the amount of sub-forums. Hopefully this thread will help in that regard, though further input on other things that would improve member feedback and participation in matters concerning the forums would be appreciated.

I mean other then your suggestion of tidying up FAQ what honestly is there to add or change? Not much to be quite honest. Especially when you consider the fact that the forum already runs rather fine as far as features and information sets goes.

Like the theme could it use an upgrade? Yeah. Does it need it? Not reaaaally.

New members are constantly asking the same questions when first joining because someone has to personally inform them of things they should've been able to look up on their own

I think you and I have very definitions for the word "Constantly" 1 or 2 new people asking when they can edit their posts like every other 4 months isn't constantly.

Honestly that's really the only thing new people ask about and tbh I think it's just easier to edit the new user usergroup to allow them to edit posts rather then have it arbitrarily set to change after they rank up.

I mean unless I'm missing something I'm pretty sure the Bots aren't going to get much use out of editing posts.

I'm aware not all of them would think to do that but you also get more experienced members frequently wondering about other matters such as what the different user titles correspond to.

When? Most of the time we bring up user titles it's just dicking around. Point in case me like 8 months ago looking for angles to get Lex to change me over to Great Old One even though my post count doesn't match it.

P.S. Screw you guys I know you can just add me to it or edit my post count so that I get the title. I made it to the ripe old age of 27 and am pretty great. I DESERVE IT GAIS.

Like honestly who here is asking whats up with user titles? It's just stupid titles for fun for the most part. That's it. Do you reaaaaally need to know which title your gonna get between 2000 and 3000 posts?

Do you reaaaaaaaallly need to be told wht Staff Emeritus means.

Right now, clicking the FAQ button just gives you a search bar, where it'll only show you results corresponding to whatever you type in

It will actually pull up every corresponding page that has the word you searched for rather then a single defined page set based on that word. I.E. Searching User Title brings up every FAQ page with the words User and Title in it giving you a lot of things to read up on.

So it doesn'y really "only show you results corresponding to what ever you type in" It actually does the opposite lol. It shows you everything FAQ page that has the words you searched for. It's actually not very robust and Yolo's the results.

However, if you type in a word it doesn't find anything for, such as rules, you have to leave the page in order to try again, as refreshing it doesn't return you to the search bar.

Umm. Or just click FAQ again? Which is also conveniently closer to the search bar on that page then the refresh button. No need to close the page just press FAQ again.

Also it makes sense that FAQ wouldn't bring up the Rules page. FAQ isn't a broad search engine for the forum, I can't just type in "Cthulhu" and expect it to bring up his profile page either.

You can how ever type Rules into the Search bar and get... Not what your looking for Mainly because vB search system is based on active time over relevancy and as the Rules thread hasn't had a post in years. So instead it pulls up any post or thread that has the word you searched for and order it by most recent post date.

Not entirely sure if that's something that can be tweaked. Though tbh I much prefer the current default sorting system vB uses.

A search option is nice and all but a menu listing the questions the FAQ answers instead of not seeing anything until you type the right word would be more effective, as well as allow people to see what the entire contents of the FAQ looks like, so they won't waste their time looking for information it doesn't have. From what I've seen of the FAQs, it also isn't very informative on anything outside of basic forum functions such as how to post, delete posts, use PMs and so on.

This is gonna come off as antagonistic. As if this entire post hasn't already

A ) It would stand to reason if someone actually has a question to ask they would know what to search for.

B) Who the fuck is actually using the FAQ system? Like honestly. I know we have it because it's a forum and were doing all the formalities and what not but logistically I would bet my bottom dollar its useless as fuck cause aint no one using that shit.

And don't come back with "Well if it was better it might get used".

I really don't think it would get used lol.

This is so bureaucratic lol. EVERYTHING must be filed and indexed so that the 1 new person we get every other month might on the off chance search for it!

Not to mention if someone legit has a question they can just ask lol. Like it's not going to ruin my day to reply with a "Yeah you can do that at 10 posts bro" lol.

I'll now be addressing your bullet points over quoting them.

1. I believe my post thus far has addressed my stance on this so I won't beat the horse anymore.

2. All of those things fall under common sense though.

"I wonder how I can privately message this person. Surely it not the button labeled "Private message"

Furthermore breaking down which scenario to use each method completely misses the point of each contact method. They are all perfectly fine to use in the capacity you feel comfortable with.

Staff isn't going to lose their shit if you use the private feedback forum to report a post etc.

"Nope used the wrong form to file your Feed back request#32, you're going to have to start the process all over again!"

This aint the DMV lol.

3. Again common sense. Did you privately send something to Staff? Yes. Well that shits private unless they get your permission to post it. And they ask if they want to share it in staff section.

4. It's called the Rules page. They don't have elevated rights or leniency in regards to fuck uppery. Again common sense but if you feel they crossed a line you can still contact other staff even if they didn't explicitly break a rule.


5. Good god. Stop. It was settled as well as can be. It's not even a big deal idk why you keep bringing this up. I really don't know what else to say on this subject lol.

Again this isn't a bureaucracy. This is just a forum we don't need to file everything and wait x amount of business days for it to clear. We gave it a few days and we went with what the majority voted for (in an iirc almost 3 to 1 vote ratio). Adding a week to that process changes literally nothing in that outcome.

I was more annoyed that the conversation seemed to be bolted only to 'the thanks system in debates' when there was a broader issue with the thanks system as a whole, but that's a beast that needs to be tackled another day. Let sleeping dogs lie and all that.

We asked multiple times in that thread for people who felt if the "issue" affected more sides of the forum other then just Debate to come forward in either PM to staff, Ghost or use the Private feedback forum.

To my knowledge no one ever did. Furthermore that thread was created by Ghost X for as far as I'm aware only like 2 people (excluding Ghost) who had an issue with the system.

We literally made new rules on the fly and set up a new sub forum for 2 people based on the votes of the majority who felt like it was a good enough idea to try out a new system to make the few anonymous users feel more comfortable.

I'm just replying to this part of your post due to the fact that we did try to get more people to give input regarding the system on the forum over all. How ever almost unanimously the community felt like it wasn't a big deal outside of debate and a good portion also didn't have issue with it in debate thus why the new section was made for more "blind" discussion.

@Licorice. While a cute idea I would argue that's all of our roles. This isn't kindergarden lol.

We don't really need a new mod for that role because that's something we should all be doing. Making new people feel welcome and helping them out if they actually need it.









TL;DR . TLS isn't getting a ton of new members who will actually need much or any of this. Additionally TLS is using old as fuck niche software (a Forum). People don't user forums anymore guys.

The only forums that actually thrive outside of TLS are specialty community forums like Blizzards Battle Net etc. Forums were effectively replaced by Facebook , Reddit etc. Years ago.

The reason I bring this up is basically because we aren't ever going to get a massive influx of ACF Tier new members (they legit were getting hundreds a day at peak). And as such I think creating systems that borderline are fringe common sense is rather useless and time consuming.

That effort is better used honestly creating more content for the front page rather then catering to the 1 of like 20 active new members we may get this year when the majority of their questions can easily be answered by any of us. That's even assuming they have a question.


This forum isn't falling apart or about to implode because we have a silly FAQ system and I doubt it ever will. Instead of having automated systems to depend on foster a community that makes people feel comfortable enough to ask us those silly questions instead.


There's a reason why people instantly ask for a Human when calling customer support instead of using the Automated System that can do everything they need for them.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Yeah but newbies feel embarrassed; they haven't built up relationships and don't know who to ask. If we had a designated "friendly face" to answer their questions I think it would help, as they would have a name and know exactly who to ask, and be guaranteed to get a friendly answer.

Most workplaces have a similar system in place, so it isn't just for kindergarten.

 

[Octo]

RE: Staff PM's

we don't routinely share every PM we get in the staff section, if something is a simple query it is usually handled by one mod. However often we have to because we as staff have to be able to discuss stuff and come to a decision on how to proceed. This has always been the case.

PM's between members are private, unless we have cause to investigate (eg instances of harrassment)

 

[Geostigma]

Yeah but newbies feel embarrassed; they haven't built up relationships and don't know who to ask. If we had a designated "friendly face" to answer their questions I think it would help, as they would have a name and know exactly who to ask, and be guaranteed to get a friendly answer.

Most workplaces have a similar system in place, so it isn't just for kindergarten.

Again drunk so sorry if I failed to relay my point effectively.

But what I mean is that anyone here mod or not can just as effectively say "Hey if you have any questions feel free to ask or pm me" and it literally does the same thing.

If someone is embarrassed to ask they are gonna feel embarrassed asking anyone regardless of staff status in my opinion.

Furthermore adding a role to a specific task like that on Staff kind of makes it seem more disingenuous I guess?

I feel like the same 1 person going to every newbie thread and saying they can help you makes it seem less like a community. The new user shouldn't feel like they have to hunt down 1 person for help, they should feel like they can ask anyone mod or not for help.

I think there is a world of difference as far as Quality of Life goes between 1 person going from thread to thread essentially saying "Hey it's my job to baby sit you ask away" , versus everyone on the forum just trying to be welcoming and helpful.

I realize the initial example in that comparison is very pessimistic lol, but over all I feel like it just makes things seem more manufactured or something. In my mind it wont have a sincere effect.

Like when X thanks my/everyones posts


Furthermore this isn't a workplace. Does a new member really need an onboarding package for what is essentially "Lets talk about Cloud".

I really just want to know why were taking this all so seriously lol.

This forums doing pretty damn fine and I feel these QoL changes don't really effect it over all in a meaningful or worthwhile way tbh.

 

[Lex]

I actually don't hate the idea of a "newbie helper" so to speak, but I also feel like everyone should be being friendly to newbies (note, everyone is) and the role shouldn't be necessary. Also I feel like it might get in the way of newbies forming bonds with other members. That first moment you send a PM or VM to someone you don't know that you think seems nice and kinda cool is important.

The point Claymore made is probably the most important/ sticking out to me:

To be honest, I would argue the other side of this. I personally think that this forum runs just a little too much on 'committee' or 'community' input. Everyone has their say on literally any tiny thing on this forum, and if one person disagrees, it usually quickly descends into chaos. Ultimately this leads to a lot of things just not getting completed or achieved, or in the case you specifically mentioned, a quick fix is just slapped on in order to appeal to both parties. But that just means that, a lot of the time, that issue isn't actually fixed, or it feels like the forum gets stuck in a rut with very little progress being made in any actual area.

100% agree.

Your proposed solution being that staff should be allowed to put their foot down and move forward is problematic, because right here we have a situation where exactly that happened (X made a decision re: thanks based on feedback from everyone and has had to explain it over and over and over again because some people aren't happy with it). It's a very damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but if we don't start actually doing this we're just going to stagnate.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

5. Establish some basic guidelines about making changes to the forums that'll prevent a repetition of how the thanks thread was handled. It went from a simple poll gauging opinions regarding the thanks system to making changes to the forums in two days, assumed the poll was representative of opinions regarding suggestions made after its creation instead of making a separate poll with the various options to vote for, didn't take the time to properly discuss whether or not the thanks system was actually the root cause of the problems mentioned and instead assumed the thanks system was at fault without further examining the issue.

When problem solving, to assume something is the cause of a problem due to people associating the two isn't always correct, such as when people assume mass shooters are mentally ill instead of really amoral people willing to kill due to bigotry or just for the sake of it. You need to actually examine the issue, isolate the given problem from proposed causes and look at all the possibilities instead of the one you think it is. It's like the scientific method. There's a whole process of questions and observations that need to be made before you can come up with results that prove or disprove the initial hypothesis, which in this case would be that the thanks system is the cause of the problems people have had with debates.

The other issue with what happened was the assumption that implementing the thanks free section doesn't require re-verifying member input regarding changes to the forums, nor giving at least a week for said input to be made. Any less and people don't have time to respond with a thought out opinion on the matter because they're too busy rushing to keep up with it all to really think about it beyond gut reactions. If staff's going to improve the forums for the community, then the community should have the opportunity to give input about changes being made, no matter how benign they may seem.

While you've been off to a decent start... once again, I'm going to have to HEAVILY correct you here on what actually took place with the Thanks reform, since you seem adamant about continually misrepresenting what took place, despite having had it explained to you multiple times.



• The Thanks system was polled (starting on 4/14) for general opinions on how we implement in on the forums. Within two days (by 4/16), we had the following results from 40 users:
- 24 people didn't want it changed at all.
- 12 thought it should be restricted it in certain sections.
- 4 wanted it gone completely.

• We let the users know that the people who wanted it gone entirely could utilize a browser plugin to disable it (which covers the minor 10% who voted and leaves the other 90% as-is).
- This is still an option for any users who dislike the system and would rather not use or see it, since we won't be removing it from the forum.

• I created the Blind Debate sub-forum. Within it, I generated an introductory thread with rules & guidelines for its use, and I moved the Presidential Debate thread in there so that the people affected by it who very much wanted partial restrictions (which was 30% of the vote) had a place to test it out there, as well as with any threads they wanted, in addition to being able to make new threads without the Thanks system in place. This meant that there wasn't any discussion needed on converting the entire Debate section to being Thanks-less, since all threads in there would be voluntarily moved by the minority representation who could benefit from a more sterile conversational environment.
- Secondarily I compiled a quick list of threads from the debate section to possibly also test, and that list was left in place for user feedback for two full weeks (until 5/4). This is also known as a re-verification of user input, where many of the quickly listed threads were deemed that they wouldn't be moved, and a couple others were moved immediately, before at the end of the two weeks, the remainders were moved into that sub-forum to give a more broad test set.

• The original polled Thanks thread was left to discuss any other potential issues related to Thanks, but not directly caused by them (clique-ish activity, groupthink, etc). WE ARE IN NO WAY way pushing off, ignoring, or saying that this conversation doesn't need to be had. We simply do not have enough substance to have a meaningful conversation yet, by which I mean – to this date – no one has come forward with concrete examples of this happening for the staff to work with for finding potential behavioural patterns to address this (currently) phantom issue. If ANY users have examples of anything like that, we are STILL waiting on them to be posted in that thread because the Staff absolutely cannot do anything with no physical evidence to review. If you have this stuff, please go post it now, so that we can finally have this blasted conversation and do something to get it settled.


If anyone would like to discuss why ANY of these above-listed, specific points as they came to pass were somehow unacceptable, ill-advised, too-hasty, etc. I'm here and I will be more than happy to detail what went into those decisions insofar as the limitations of related users' privacy is concerned, but I want everyone to have a clear understanding of how this ACTUALLY came about before moving on to my next point.





I've worked in tech support and the IT environment for the last decade, and I've been near-continually involved with this specific community (or versions of it) since December of 2003. I very well know what it takes when it comes to troubleshooting and problem solving especially in regards to this forum (because of all of what failed massively from ACF until now). Believe me when I say that there were FAR more things happening with the Thanks implementation than just who posted in the thread, including users interacting directly with me via PM about the Thanks issues they experienced, because not everyone wants their feelings displayed publicly like that. As an admin, that interaction means that I have a sufficiently different perspective than other non-Staff, and even some Staff users when it comes to how changes in the forum come about and are decided upon.

What I really, REALLY don't appreciate here is you continually re-telling a biased narrative of events despite the clarification that we've provided you, and ESPECIALLY making wholly inappropriate comparisons to how we operate when making minor changes on this forum with how people are responding to one of the most heinous incidents of mass death and homphobia in modern American history. That's flat-out disgusting, and you should be ashamed for writing that. In case you want to know (because it's tangentially related to the earlier topic) – that's why my Thanks isn't on your post despite you covering some helpful improvements & suggestions that we will continue to chat about and address.



Now that that's all been said.

If any of the current staff who knows how to actively respond to the Introductions section (i.e. certainly not me) wants to declare themselves as the "official n00b greeter" (official title name pending) I think that'd be rad, because while we're all more than happy to assist with whatever, some people are much more 1337 about quick interactions like that.

Also, if anyone wants to ask questions about my points here, or the other more helpful things that Starling addressed, I'm happy to listen. Keep in mind that Gabe made good (albeit rather drunk) points about what necessitates change, vs. what'd be cool if this were some official SE Website with a paid staff running it.






X

 

[Cthulhu]

I haven't reviewed the FAQs since errr, the start of TLS, so a rewrite or review may be in order; personally I'd like a quick introduction to TLS, etiquette, new member restrictions (and when they're lifted, and maybe why they're there in the first place (spoiler: it's not just to stop spambots)), etc. In addition, a review of the terms and conditions that members agree to may need to be reviewed, see if the legalese in there still matches up with today's day and age.

Off course, we should also upgrade forum software, but iirc the priority was to spruce up the front page first. IDK, I forgot / nobody's kicked me since the plans came up,

wrt contacting staff, I don't mind it being informal and arbitrary. My ideal has always been (and still is) that staff isn't some Group of Higher Ones, but just regular members that happen to have a few extra permissions to ban spambots. The infraction system? I'd rather get rid of it completely, instead, have forum culture prevail - bad behaviour be frowned upon, people being pricks being called out on their behaviour, and at worst a mod PMing a misbehaving member. Or just banning them if that didn't work; there's really no point in warning people because infractions don't mean shit, and there's some people with whom trying to talk to just won't work. They can fuck off, good riddance, nobody will miss them.

(That does off course assume the rest of the members agrees, which in larger forums (like ACF was) isn't the case, and which may cause a major divide in the member base. But that's a natural thing; if a group of people isn't comfortable, they can either try and convince the others, or leave to somewhere they like betterer.)

If we are going for another rules review, I'd really like the only edits to be removing shit. It's TL;DR right now, and all of it just boils down to "don't be a dick". If we have people that don't understand that simple rule, we'd rather them not be a part of our community. We're a community and we're people, not a country and lawyers. The problem is that the more rules you add, the more gaps there are (as in, "your rules tell me I can't insult people, but what exactly is your definition of an insult?", or shit like that. Yeah CBA playing those games m8.

anyway, stuff. Feel free to draft a new FAQ or whatever.

 

[Geostigma]

Keep in mind that Gabe made good (albeit rather drunk) points

All things considered I think my grammar may have been better drunk than when I'm sober. Not sure if I should feel accomplished or really really sad

Thanks for addressing 5 better then I could ever have drunk or sober. I'll be honest last night I'm pretty sure I facepalmed when I saw that point brought up (yet again). It basically sparked a "nope" to everything in that post attitude in me just because of the way it was framed.

If theres any take away from your post I hope it's that people read that section of it because at best that event was forgettable. It was no big deal that was handled well aside from this one person bringing it up often because reasons.


With that said again though back to the topic at hand I still for the most part agree with Drunk Gabriel. Except now your dealing with just woke up Gabriel


IDK to me it's just priorities/necessities. There's better stuff to work on and create over revamping the FAQ and creating an onboarding package for let's be real here the very few newbies we actually get.

Like who's going to sit down and do that actual work. There isn't a button that can just be pressed to revamp the FAQ. Someone has to type everything out at the end of the day etc. And I'm pretty sure it's not going to be as simple as simply typing out 20 different relevant pages.


Idk. I feel like revamping it is like getting a Piano for your living room. It's pretty and wow's new guests but nobody is actually going to use that shit.
Nobody ever reads stickies on forums. Ever. Since like 1974. You reaaaally think people are gonna click the FAQ page?

I bet the FAQ page probably got the most views in its lifetime on TLS after this thread was made lol.


Anyway aside from that yeah making sure the proper stuff etc. is updated and stickied on the Forum news and information section is valid. But honestly I kinda think disabling the FAQ might actually be more worth while then making it better

edit:

Also I like your thoughts over all on the rules etc. Yop.

 

[Lex]

Honestly didn't know the FAQ even had anything on it tbh. As in, I genuinely thought it was some generic vB thing that came with the software. I will not be touching it, for the record. And I won't expect anyone else to do it either. There's a reason it's a relic.

We could update the rules, but we don't/ never have/ shouldn't operate on "you have violated paragraph 9 section b" type scenarios. If someone is a dick they face the consequences, and that's simple enough for everyone to follow. I don't think people get how lenient we are XD. Compare this to any other board and there are a choice few people who would have been banned ages ago, but we all try to do the thing Yop is talking about (allow to self govern and step in only when necessary). Even then there are people who complain that we step in too much.

Once again going to repeat ye olde "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

There just isn't a happy medium. There are people who give no shits, people who give too many, people who think we're too lenient and people who think we're too strict. We govern by consensus/ a kind of free-for-all democracy and examine everything on a case-by-case basis. No system is perfect, but we're a hell of a lot better in most respects than any other board I've been to.

 

[Channy]

If any of the current staff who knows how to actively respond to the Introductions section (i.e. certainly not me) wants to declare themselves as the "official n00b greeter" (official title name pending) I think that'd be rad, because while we're all more than happy to assist with whatever, some people are much more 1337 about quick interactions like that.

I nominate our new forum mods, Joe and Force. Get their feet wet a bit

Re: The FAQ - Would anyone even notice if it was gone? The Search function works just as appropriately.

Re: The Rules - After finding them, which took a bit, may be worth putting a link to that on the forum header instead of FAQ... they seem fine. Maybe a bit long but they're solid and common sensical.

Re: The No-Thanks Sub Forum

 

[Geostigma]

Re: The Rules - After finding them, which took a bit, may be worth putting a link to that on the forum header instead of FAQ... they seem fine. Maybe a bit long but they're solid and common sensical.

o.O It's stickied and at the top of the Forum News and Information section. Super easy to find lol

but yeah I agree just have the Rules there instead of FAQ if anything.

 

[Elessar]

Edit the forum's PHP to make it look... modern. Like this for example. A quick mockup I did by deleting a bunch of HTML stuff I don't need, with a little bit of CSS:

It's dead simple and it boggles the mind as to why none of the staff here (with server access) have yet to do it.

Not complaining or anything. It something like... watching a friend play a game and the solution to the puzzle is right in front of them but they just don't see it.

 

[Geostigma]

Mainly because the last time the community talked about modernizing the theme the general consensus was we liked the way it looked lol.

Joe, Myself, Aaron (He was around then) , I think Yop and obviously you could easily do the work. We just decided we liked the way things currently looked.

IIRC last time it was brought up by Ravynn and that discussion actually lead to Joe and I being offered spots on staff to work on that stuff. Most of the general work went to the Front page IIRC.

 

[Fangu]

It's dead simple and it boggles the mind as to why none of the staff here (with server access) have yet to do it.

Not complaining or anything. It something like... watching a friend play a game and the solution to the puzzle is right in front of them but they just don't see it.

I can't wait for the day when you realise the challenge isn't actually doing the technical shit, but getting people to agree on the changes. <3

 

[Geostigma]

It's dead simple and it boggles the mind as to why none of the staff here (with server access) have yet to do it.

Not complaining or anything. It something like... watching a friend play a game and the solution to the puzzle is right in front of them but they just don't see it.

I can't wait for the day when you realise the challenge isn't actually doing the technical shit, but getting people to agree on the changes. <3

 

[ForceStealer]

Personally I tire of the "modern-means-everything-is-flat" aesthetic.
Not that it's something I would feel strongly enough to block, but there it is.

 

[Geostigma]

Personally I tire of the "modern-means-everything-is-flat" aesthetic.
Not that it's something I would feel strongly enough to block, but there it is.

It's also going out of style. It's kind of ironic that Tel called us out for not having a modernized theme when his set up is also quickly falling out of favor. I blame Win10

Forgot to link earlier but heres more or less the last time the discussion came up

http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16164&page=6

 

[Elessar]

Dude. I know its ugly. I make sites waaaaaaay prettier than that light green block I did in literally 5 minutes using Web Inspector. But this ugly is prettier than the current skin.

There have been many discussions about revamping the forums (using other newer software). I participated in them, failed to get anyone doing anything, and gave up (twice) IIRC. But this is different. It's just "hacking" what we already have.

I'm perfectly fine living in this "house". But I'd love a new coat of paint. That's all I'm saying.

EDIT: I also like how X likes everyone's posts except mine.