(Tagged Remake Spoilers) OG Frustration Thread/Double Standards

[Odysseus]

Amusingly, my girlfriend played N64 back in the day and hasn't really played games since. So when seeing both she was more drawn to play the original because it was more in line with how she perceived video games

I kinda understand how she feels, even though I kept up with games until now. I find myself drawn to PS1/2 era games because that's how "video games" look in my brain still, since I grew up on those. That said, the remake's character models blow me away, they're so satisfying to look at even compared to the pre-rendered models.

Still, low poly 4 lyfe

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

You can use the path of least resistance because you know exactly where to find it in advance, though, which doesn't really apply to most first playthroughs.

"If I play through this in the most optimal way possible, it's easy to complete" applies to every game ever made.

Edit: I don't think the dev's intentions involve a specific playstyle at all. They want individual players to be able to use playstyles whatever way they want and not make the game impossible as a result. Most games are not designed to be played optimally at all (you don't need to get to level 99 to defeat Sephiroth, for instance. You can, if you like, but just because you can doesn't mean it's necessarily the dev's intentions that the player do so.

Ironically enough, FFVIIR is definitely the game that breaks this. They absolutely want you at Level 50 with maxed-out materia as soon as possible once you've cleared the game the first time. They practically hand all of that to you as soon as you've beaten it, assuming you weren't already there.

And -- much to my bewilderment as such a long-time fan -- I think that's part of why this combat system rocks so hard.

 

[Odysseus]

Ironically enough, FFVIIR is definitely the game that breaks this. They absolutely want you at Level 50 with maxed-out materia as soon as possible once you've cleared the game the first time. They practically hand all of that to you as soon as you've beaten it, assuming you weren't already there.

And -- much to my bewilderment as such a long-time fan -- I think that's part of why this combat system rocks so hard.

Hard mode is almost like a different game because of this. They want you maxed out, so the fights rely entirely on skill and having the right set-up. It's great.

 

[crazyrabbits23]

The materia system is absolutely broken in the OG if you know what you're doing. Get up to the weapons/armors with eight slots each and you could go ham. Even more so with Sources for stat manipulation. The Enemy Skill materia in particular made a lot of other materia obsolete too, so you could have more stat-based materia to pad things out with. And lets not talk about the Master Materia which made an already broken system even more broken...

I think I started out of Midgar with Cloud, Tifa and Red XIII and then switched out Red XIII with Vincent when I got him. I... really didn't have to use anyone else. Put Sprint Shoes on every one with an Enemy Skill materia and MAG and STR materia and you could beat just about any normal enemy configuration in the game. Add in the OP summons when they were gotten and it was a fun time.

For better or worse, FFVII was not a hard game. I have a hard time seeing people having so much trouble with it that they actually have to pay attention to character stats, but then I tend to over-grind like crazy...

> Max out your first "All" Materia, sell for 1.4 mil
> Beta/Matra Magic on first disc, chainsaw through everything
> Apocalypse for Cloud as soon as possible
> White Wind = Auto-save button that gets even better as you level up
> Morph everything on the Gelnika
> ????
> Profit

 

[Clement Rage]

Ironically enough, FFVIIR is definitely the game that breaks this. They absolutely want you at Level 50 with maxed-out materia as soon as possible once you've cleared the game the first time. They practically hand all of that to you as soon as you've beaten it, assuming you weren't already there.

And -- much to my bewilderment as such a long-time fan -- I think that's part of why this combat system rocks so hard.

Not...really? You can get through the first run fine at level 35 or so, I'd kind of regard that as being like levelling up to do bonus material a la the Weapons. You can if you like, but you don't need to.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm not sure what you're disputing? I'm referring to how the EXP and AP received are cranked through the roof after you've beaten the game.

 

[Clement Rage]

I was talking about how you didn't have to play a specific way or level up completely to play the game, and then you said that FF7R was different because of hard mode. I don't think that's the same, because it's basically bonus content after you complete the game.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I see your point, though I'm not sure I agree. Even replaying chapters on Normal sees us getting the same augmented EXP and AP, and doing some stuff (e.g. getting the other dresses or seeing the other Chapter 14 conversation variants) doesn't fall so much under "bonus content" as standard content you could have gotten on your first playthrough.

You don't even ever have to play specifically Hard Mode to get these things, but if you do get them, you will be receiving cranked-up EXP and AP that gets you closer to what I would argue is the developers' intended playstyle.

While we're on the subject, though, I think it's also worth consideration that games -- and especially FF games -- generally aren't known for locking their biggest optional content behind what essentially amounts to a New Game+ feature. Here, though, you can't even fight a Malboro, master the Enemy Skill materia, complete your Assess list, etc. without going into Hard Mode.

I mean, if you're speaking to just finishing the game on Normal, then whatever, yeah, you can blunder your way through a lot of it and leave a lot of content forever unaccessed. Doing an actual complete playthrough, though, is going to require making use of some intended playstyles the developers definitely shove you towards.

 

[Ite]

Edit: I realize nothing I say here was actually in reply to The Twilight Mexican, so I’ll leave it up as a separate random tangent, but delete the quote. :3

This is why Red XIII not being playable still irks me. The game is designed for you to play through twice — that’s four chapters of him as a party member, including swordipede twice, Arsenal twice, the Hard Mode combat simulator, and the final boss gauntlet twice.

 

[Clement Rage]

I feel like most good game design usually involves accommodating as many playstyles as possible. The main additional thing you get from Hard Mode is bonus bossfights (from what I understand), and the Assess, Enemy Skills etc follow naturally from that (new enemies mean different attacks and different assessments.)

Hard Mode is designed for the people that want to push themselves in the battle system, just like Easy Mode is designed for people that want to play the game for the story and not worry about the battle system. I would argue that both of those choices are a valid way to play and neither is more 'intended' than the other.