SPOILERS The Case for a OG Lore-Based Explanation for REMAKE

[X-SOLDIER]

Aerith cannot be a willing sacrifice. She cannot be Pink Jesus who dies so that we may live. She just can't. That would be a complete travesty, and Nojima and Nomura know this. I am willing to accept that she foresees the possibility of her death. Death is always a possibilty, after all. But she has to go to the Forgotten Capital believing she will triumph and return. She has to.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

Aerith's motivation is that she's doing what she has to no matter what, but she's very much afraid of it. She's even more afraid of it now that she doesn't know what's actually out there for her, hence her line about missing the steel sky and being afraid of not knowing what will happen. I think that her leaving the party to go to the Forgotten Capitol, is her trying to protect them from any potential consequences, so that they're all kept safe for when she returns. I think that she's doing it with the belief that she can't let the others be in danger as a result of what she's trying to do, because she doesn't really know what that danger actually is. It's why her path parallels and balances Cloud's path.

Aerith goes alone to summon Holy and expects to tackle those challenges on her own to keep the others safe against an unknown danger – but she dies & Holy gets trapped in the core of the Planet by Sephiroth, forcing the party to continue going into danger to face him.

Cloud finally commits to leading everyone else to go up against the clearly known danger of Sephiroth against all odds, and because it's a point of no return he's fully prepared to die while trying to save the world – and instead of dying heroically like everyone else he's known who did that, he's left to survive.

It's why their awkward relationship in the story always pulls on each other so hard – because there's never any way where both of them live together or both of them die together. One of them is always left without the other, which is what makes both of their sacrifices ultimately selfless – because they each lose each other by committing to the more important path, and they have to go their separate ways.


(Plus, Tifa & Zack exist in their respective realms, so it's not all bad once they get past the guilt of not being able to be there for the other person, and it's still got a way to paint that as a fate for both of them where they're not constantly mourning for the other person).




X

 

[Eerie]

Translation note: I went with "Fileur" rather than "Feeler" for the Japanese term for the Whispers because I feel like it would work better if it's the French word for "spinner"/"weaver."

For what it's worth, it's how they were named in French IIRC

 

[Clean Cut Chaos]

If they alter the big death in any meaningful way, SE could face a riot of angry aging nerds armed with homemade Buster swords. Nobody wants to see that (yes I do).

I want to be in PAIN over it. I want my tears to burn like acid. I want to take a day of bereavement from work because of the anguish festering in my SOUL.

 

[ultima786]

They use the term timeline because the game itself uses the term timeline to explain the Whispers.

Someone just told me that in the Japanese translation, they dont use the term "future timeline" but rather just "future." There may be a translation issue here, which if it is a mistake I hope the story rectifies it in a patch and the next installment.

 

[Roger]

Someone just told me that in the Japanese translation, they dont use the term "future timeline" but rather just "future." There may be a translation issue here, which if it is a mistake I hope the story rectifies it in a patch and the next installment.

Regardless, the poor Youtubers aren't getting the term from Avengers or Back To the Future or other non-canon material, they are getting it from the game.

 

[Theozilla]

The plate has already dropped, the president is already dead, Jenova has already escaped and the crew is already on their march to stop Sephiroth. I feel at this point Wedge's existence, who has already missed the elevator, isn't doing much to harm the Planet. Aerith has already decided that Sephiroth is the greater threat to the Planet, Cloud is gonna follow due to Reunion instinct, that'll put them on the path to finding the Black Materia, and using Holy in response and so on. I feel Wedge is still being harrassed by the Whisper cause he was fated to die, not because he is still the greatest threat to the planet in Midgar.

Oh I don't think the Planet views Wedge as a threat either, but rather since the Planet is finally reacting to "fate" collectively on the assumption the danger to the Planet has finally reached a tipping point, and because of that Wedge surviving is something that is "not allowed" for the cryptic meta reasons others have discussed, not because of any individual significance Wedge might pose.

 

[ultima786]

crazy theory here that the start of remake’s Aerith staring at the mako pipe is actually her at the end of ff7 og, and OG is a vision she receives at the start of remake.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

See, the problem with this theory is that it has to become so complicated to make it work. Now, complicated theories is Square Enix's middle name, so it could well be the case that they are thinking along these lines. But they have never been all that good latterly at reconciling the "cool" elements and set pieces in their games with the meta world-building, because honestly I don't think it matters to them all that much that the world-building is coherent and consistent. Even within the Remake, the world's physics and Cloud's own abilities vary from chapter to chapter. They don't care. They're visual people. The first thing they think about is the visual impact. Going down the road of logic in the hopes that you'll find sense at the end of it will only lead you to a dead end.

 

[Eerie]

Exactly, I do expect plotholes in their story tbh, because, even if the writers are more meticulous about the characters and compilation as a whole (since they're integrating it to FFVIIR it seems), Nomura thinks a LOT about visual appeal (hey that's his job). So to reconcile everything, they will allow plotholes, IMHO. Just like the Planet not acting before, etc.

 

[ultima786]

Night sky prince tries to be positive here but also espouses this idea that Sephiroth and Aerith are time traveling.

I don’t see a single piece of clear evidence what so ever to suggest Sephiroth and Aerith travel through time. The only possible time “travel” is by the whispers. No idea why folks are resorting to baseless ideas to explain the narrative.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Time travel is like a hole.

Once you open that possibility up, it widens and lends itself to being stretched to accommodate and explain more and more.

 

[oty]

Night sky prince tries to be positive here but also espouses this idea that Sephiroth and Aerith are time traveling.

I don’t see a single piece of clear evidence what so ever to suggest Sephiroth and Aerith travel through time. The only possible time “travel” is by the whispers. No idea why folks are resorting to baseless ideas to explain the narrative.

Is it that surprising? To them, characters seemingly know of future events, and there are the visions. Completely understandable that some would think it's time travel.

 

[ultima786]

Is it that surprising? To them, characters seemingly know of future events, and there are the visions. Completely understandable that some would think it's time travel.

Why not just refer to the original game? Where over and over again they show that Aerith speaks to the planet? Even the flash forwards are always accompanied by glitches and such. Is Cloud also from the future? Is Jenova from the future? Obviously not.

I feel like these marvel movies are coloring everyone’s perspective.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I don't think Marvel has anything to do with it.

If the planet's somehow traveling through time, how in the world is it inconceivable that the people on it can't as well?

 

[ultima786]

I don't think Marvel has anything to do with it.

If the planet's somehow traveling through time, how in the world is it inconceivable that the people on it can't as well?

Who said the planet is traveling through time? The planet has this thing within it called the lifestream. The lifestream is a flow of life through eternity. It’s knowledge is perhaps eternal and has foresight.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Time travel is like a hole.

Once you open that possibility up, it widens and lends itself to being stretched to accommodate and explain more and more.

It also doesn't help optics that some of these same key developers have recently utilized everything from time travel to rewinding time to jumping to alternate timelines in the KH franchise.

I feel like these marvel movies are coloring everyone’s perspective.

I think it's coloring your perspective since you keep bringing it up, but you're way off base that people aren't basing their interpretation of this story on this story that makes explicit reference to the future, features explicitly time-traveling ghost plot police, and utilizes the word "timeline" in its English localization.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Who said the planet is traveling through time? The planet has this thing within it called the lifestream. The lifestream is a flow of life through eternity. It’s knowledge is perhaps eternal and has foresight.

.... The game itself.

The Arbiters of Fate, coming from the future, to protect the destiny that shaped them.

That's like, explicit time travel. There's no hand-waving it away. They're agents of the Lifestream, the planet. So if the planet can send entities back through time to preserve the course of destiny it wishes for itself, then that means.. It's traveling time.

At the very least, the planet is creating time travel for it's own ends. At most, it's not just the planet but other beings as well. But time travel is explicitly part of the narrative in some form or fashion.

 

[ultima786]

.... The game itself.

The Arbiters of Fate, coming from the future, to protect the destiny that shaped them.

That's like, explicit time travel. There's no hand-waving it away. They're agents of the Lifestream, the planet. So if the planet can send entities back through time to preserve the course of destiny it wishes for itself, then that means.. It's traveling time.

At the very least, the planet is creating time travel for it's own ends. At most, it's not just the planet but other beings as well. But time travel is explicitly part of the narrative in some form or fashion.

Not to mince words, but that isn't the planet traveling through time. That is the planet creating something that has this ability.

 

[ultima786]

I think it's coloring your perspective since you keep bringing it up, but you're way off base that people aren't basing their interpretation of this story on this story that makes explicit reference to the future, features explicitly time-traveling ghost plot police, and utilizes the word "timeline" in its English localization.

Seems like you are taking this personally. Apologies for that...

The devil is in the details. Time is clearly a factor here, fate, destiny, all of these new themes are real. But Cloud, Aerith, Sephiroth are not time-traveling. Other entities are: the Arbiters.

I think I personally feel comfortable with the Lifestream having super-magical and fantastical powers. The game will still feel rooted in its own universe.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Seems like you are taking this personally. Apologies for that...

It's cool. Sorry if I seemed especially upset, but the sentiment struck me as reductive and unfairly dismissive.

 

[ultima786]

It's cool. Sorry if I seemed especially upset, but the sentiment struck me as reductive and unfairly dismissive.

Is there a way to dismiss something without being mean? That is what I would like to do. I genuinely believe some theories involving time-travel are not substantiated. All we know is that the Arbiters time-travel. Everyone else time-traveling is just a guess, unless if what they really mean is that these characters have access to the Lifestream (that would be kinda cool).

I do also have a stake in this. I really want the OG to be honored and having Sephiroth and Aerith as time-travelers seems to dishonor the original. That's why Im making such an attempt to root the Remake story in the lore, even if the remake lore is an expansion.

 

[ultima786]

What was this area after the arbiters were destroyed? Lifestream? You hear Sephiroth's voice here.

 

[Theozilla]

What was this area after the arbiters were destroyed? Lifestream? You hear Sephiroth's voice here.

View attachment 5732

Presumably that's still the singularity, but in flux because the Whisper Harbinger just got defeated. Sephiroth obviously still likes the Midgar ruins as much as the Whispers do as he starts throwing buildings at the party as soon as his boss phase starts.

 

[Rydeen]

Time travel is like a hole.

Once you open that possibility up, it widens and lends itself to being stretched to accommodate and explain more and more.

This is precisely why I prefer my time travel stories to be that and only that.

 

[ultima786]

Presumably that's still the singularity, but in flux because the Whisper Harbinger just got defeated. Sephiroth obviously still likes the Midgar ruins as much as the Whispers do as he starts throwing buildings at the party as soon as his boss phase starts.

So isn't this a piece of evidence that all the battles against Arbiters and Sephiroth were within the Lifestream? This scene transforms into Midgar again, but with visions of Meteor and Sephiroth sucking up all that black stuff (which I think are the Whispers)