SPOILERS The Case for a OG Lore-Based Explanation for REMAKE

[Theozilla]

So isn't this a piece of evidence that all the battles against Arbiters and Sephiroth were within the Lifestream? This scene transforms into Midgar again, but with visions of Meteor and Sephiroth sucking up all that black stuff (which I think are the Whispers)

I mean the final two boss battle all occur in the "Singularity", that's literally what the location subtitle lists it as when the group crosses over to start the final boss fights. Whether or not the Singularity should be considered part of The Lifestream is up to player interpretation for now.

 

[Rydeen]

Since they're being so meta, I'm just gonna call the "Edge of Creation" singularity the "Debug Room" from now on.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Maybe the Singularity itself was made of Whispers. That would explain the Whisper Dome around Midgar in Zack's Flashback. And that glow after Cloud's attack on Sephiroth could tie-in with the explosion that Zack witnessed at the end.

 

[Theozilla]

Since they're being so meta, I'm just gonna call the "Edge of Creation" singularity the "Debug Room" from now on.

I hate to cause you even more distress but the "Singularity" and "Edge of Creation" are also supposed to be two distinct locations I believe, the Singularity is everything the party as a whole is present with Cloud for, the Edge of Creation is specifically just the realm Cloud and Sephiroth are in where Sephiroth is giving his "seven seconds" dialogue.

Maybe the Singularity itself was made of Whispers. That would explain the Whisper Dome around Midgar in Zack's Flashback. And that glow after Cloud's attack on Sephiroth could tie-in with the explosion that Zack witnessed at the end.

Oh there's no doubt it's made out of Whispers, Sephiroth literally slashes the Whisper dome to create the portal/pathway into the Singularity.

 

[ultima786]

Maybe the Singularity itself was made of Whispers. That would explain the Whisper Dome around Midgar in Zack's Flashback. And that glow after Cloud's attack on Sephiroth could tie-in with the explosion that Zack witnessed at the end.

That brings up a new question. What is the yellow glow? Aeirth also has this glow when she does something to Sephiroth's portal to make it yellowy and golden:

 

[Rydeen]

I hate to cause you even more distress but the "Singularity" and "Edge of Creation" are also supposed to be two distinct locations I believe, the Singularity is everything the party as a whole is present with Cloud for, the Edge of Creation is specifically just the realm Cloud and Sephiroth are in where Sephiroth is giving his "seven seconds" dialogue.

 

[Wol]

CoMpLEx StORyLiNeS

 

[Theozilla]

That brings up a new question. What is the yellow glow? Aeirth also has this glow when she does something to Sephiroth's portal to make it yellowy and golden:

View attachment 5735

Guess Aerith somehow made it safer to cross through for them? Guess the implication was that the portal was dangerous to go through before Aerith "cleansed" it?

 

[Dark and Divine]

That brings up a new question. What is the yellow glow? (...)

The glow immediatly after Cloud's attack? I took it as the Singularity being disrupted, since the Sephiroth the party faced took control of it after absorbing the Whispers. And Cloud striking him caused that pocket dimension to be destroyed.

As for the glow that Aerith displays, probably some Cetra power, but what it does and what it did to Sephiroth's portal is still a mistery.

 

[ultima786]

Guess Aerith somehow made it safer to cross through for them? Guess the implication was that the portal was dangerous to go through before Aerith "cleansed" it?

Hmm, yeah I wonder. It is obvious it's something significant because these yellow glowy lights show up all over the ending. It's almost like removal of the whispers from events manifests as a yellow glow.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Is there a way to dismiss something without being mean? That is what I would like to do. I genuinely believe some theories involving time-travel are not substantiated.

Sort of. You can point out that it's unsubstantiated and why rather than putting it at "everybody needs to stop watching 'Endgame' so much"-style assessments.

But at that point you're no longer being dismissive anyway.

All we know is that the Arbiters time-travel. Everyone else time-traveling is just a guess, unless if what they really mean is that these characters have access to the Lifestream (that would be kinda cool).

In a manner of speaking, that is what most folks referring to time travel are saying. At least those saying it here, I think. I can't speak for anywhere else, as I haven't much looked anywhere else.

What I'm suggesting has traveled through time is knowledge/memories, and that it has done so via mechanics of the Lifestream. So, in that sense, yes, Sephiroth has only gained his awareness of the future from becoming a traveler of the Lifestream. Similarly, Aerith has gained her (more limited than Sephiroth's) insight through her communion with the planet.

I do also have a stake in this. I really want the OG to be honored and having Sephiroth and Aerith as time-travelers seems to dishonor the original.

I would suggest that it very much honors the original by leaving it in another universe, safe from being affected by any of this. Leaving it the hell alone is probably the greatest possible dignity it could be paid by a remake. =P

 

[ultima786]

Comparing Zelda: Ocarina of time and Remake

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

Am I wrong in assuming the remake's ending is actually presenting us a deeper layer of the original plot, finally leading into this?

AERITH
「SEPHIROTHは、ちがう。
古代種じゃない」

CLOUD
「約束の地は
見つけられないはずだ」

SEPHIROTH
「……が、私は見つけたのだ」

「私は古代種以上の存在なのだ」

「ライフストリームの旅人となり
古代の知識と知恵を手に入れた」

「古代種滅びし後の時代の
知恵と知識をも手に入れた」

「そしてまもなく未来を創り出す」

AERITH
「そんなこと、させない！
未来はあなただけのものじゃない！」

SEPHIROTH
「クックックッ……どうかな？」

「さあ、目をさませ！」

CLOUD
「だ、だまれ！」

[...]

SEPHIROTH
「さあ、CLOUD……
良い子だ」

『黒マテリア』をセフィロスに手わたした！

May Sephiroth be tricking them into being free to forge their own future while actually working towards his own goals?
May the developers be doing the same with us?

That's a little piece to my personal theory.

Keep digging!

 

[Tetsujin]

AERITH
「SEPHIROTHは、ちがう。
古代種じゃない」

CLOUD
「約束の地は
見つけられないはずだ」

SEPHIROTH
「……が、私は見つけたのだ」

「私は古代種以上の存在なのだ」

「ライフストリームの旅人となり
古代の知識と知恵を手に入れた」

「古代種滅びし後の時代の
知恵と知識をも手に入れた」

「そしてまもなく未来を創り出す」

AERITH
「そんなこと、させない！
未来はあなただけのものじゃない！」

SEPHIROTH
「クックックッ……どうかな？」

「さあ、目をさませ！」

CLOUD
「だ、だまれ！」

[...]

SEPHIROTH
「さあ、CLOUD……
良い子だ」

『黒マテリア』をセフィロスに手わたした！

 

[ultima786]

Am I wrong in assuming the remake's ending is actually presenting us a deeper layer of the original plot, finally leading into this?



May Sephiroth be tricking them into being free to forge their own future while actually working towards his own goals?
May the developers be doing the same with us?

That's a little piece to my personal theory.

Keep digging!

Can you translate?

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

AERITH
—Sephiroth is wrong.
He's not an Ancient.

CLOUD
—Then he shouldn't be able to find the Promised Land.

SEPHIROTH
—...I did so, however.

—I am way ahead of the Ancients.

—I grabbed the knowledge and wisdom of antiquity while I traveled the Lifestream.

—And from the ruins they left behind. (Not 100% sure about this one, actually:「古代種滅びし後の時代の知恵と知識をも手に入れた」)

—And thus, soon I'll be forging the future.

AERITH
—No, you won't!
The future doesn't belong to you and only you!

SEPHIROTH
—Heh... Really?

—Come on[, Cloud!] Wake up!

CLOUD
—S-shut up!

[...]

SEPHIROTH
—Come on, Cloud... good boy.

You handed over the "Black Materia" to Sephiroth!

Feel free to correct it.
Feel very free to correct me, also.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Feel free to correct it.
Feel very free to correct me, also.

This line...

—And from the ruins they left behind. (Not 100% sure about this one, actually:「古代種滅びし後の時代の知恵と知識をも手に入れた」)

...in the western versions, it reads something like: "I also gained the knowledge of those afther the extinction of the ancients."

Anyway, here's the entirety of that dialogue...

Spoiler: ...@19:04

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

This line...
...in the western versions, it reads something like: "I also gained the knowledge of those afther the extinction of the ancients."

Thanks.
So, it could be:

—And the wisdom and knowledge which came after their extintion.

(at least if linked with previous lines).

Cool. Yet it doesn't change the obvious point I was trying to make when relating this scene with FF7R 'defying fate/clearing the future' shenanigans.
Anybody?

 

[Ryushikaze]

So, I just had a realization. When Sephiroth appears in Chapter 2, and touches Aerith, there is a brief moment of the green static, of the same sort that she later passes to Red 13. I think Sephiroth may have passed knowledge of other timelines to her.

 

[Theozilla]

So, I just had a realization. When Sephiroth appears in Chapter 2, and touches Aerith, there is a brief moment of the green static, of the same sort that she later passes to Red 13. I think Sephiroth may have passed knowledge of other timelines to her.

I'm pretty sure the Ultimania confirmed that Sephiroth in Chapter 2 is just an illusion in Cloud's head and not an actual physical presence.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I'm pretty sure the Ultimania confirmed that Sephiroth in Chapter 2 is just an illusion in Cloud's head and not an actual physical presence.

Fair point. I don't know if an illusory sephiroth could pass the information along, it was just a thing I had noticed.

 

[argent_angel]

I felt like the stamp bag and how it was shown in slow motion across the screen was to imply that this is a different time and place than what you are playing through currently. The Ultimania also says that it is assumed Zack is alive in a different time and place also which tells me timelines are coming into play here. The great thing about timelines in a big story game like FF7 is that it gives the developers freedom to explore and imagine new scenarios to a developed story while not directly affecting or changing the canon of the original story the timeline would be based off of.

https://www.thegamer.com/final-fantasy-vii-remake-zack-appearance-ultimania/

 

[Makoeyes987]

I thought that's what Kingdom Hearts was for.



Whoops, nevermind!