The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[null]

Don't click if you've had any recent surgery or stitches that could bust.

 

[null]

Ah memories.

Alas, no one ever found the definition for "envolped."

 

[Zee]

Not safe for work, school or home

holy jesus fuck, my eyes


the goggles, they do nothing

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

someone should shoop taliface as that fic and shepard doing reverse pleased look

 

[Strangelove]

oh god

that

has possibly made me even gayer than before

and i've already read it

 

[Splintered]

I love how infamous badfic can unite a fandom.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ah memories.

Alas, no one ever found the definition for "envolped."

I swear it has something to do with a fox.

 

[null]

I swear it has something to do with a fox.

My best theory is that it has something to do with the Volp, a river in southwestern France. The question is, what would Cloud be doing putting his member in the warm mouth of a French river?

 

[Dashell]

Kinda OT but on topic with the original topic, this is a quote from my notes but I was stupid and didn't label it and can't find where I got it >_<

&#24651;&#24859;&#12395;&#38306;&#12375;&#12390;&#12411;&#22885;&#25163;&#12290; &#12463;&#12521;&#12454;&#12489;&#12395;&#24819;&#12356;&#12434;&#23492;&#12379;&#12394;&#12364;&#12425;&#12418;&#32032;&#30452;&#12395;&#12394;&#12428;&#12378;&#12289;&#12394;&#12363;&#12394;&#12363;&#27671;&#25345;&#12385;&#12434;&#20253;&#12360;&#12425;&#12428;&#12378;&#12395;&#12356;&#12427;

It talks about how Tifa can't convey her feelings easily... I don't think it's the UO =/
Does anyone recognize it off hand?

 

[Celes Chere]

.. Numerous amounts of things have stated that Tifa can't convey her feelings well... xD Does it matter?

 

[Ryushikaze]

My best theory is that it has something to do with the Volp, a river in southwestern France. The question is, what would Cloud be doing putting his member in the warm mouth of a French river?

The same thing you do with the mouth of anything french.

Kinda OT but on topic with the original topic, this is a quote from my notes but I was stupid and didn't label it and can't find where I got it >_<

&#24651;&#24859;&#12395;&#38306;&#12375;&#12390;&#12411;&#22885;&#25163;&#12290; &#12463;&#12521;&#12454;&#12489;&#12395;&#24819;&#12356;&#12434;&#23492;&#12379;&#12394;&#12364;&#12425;&#12418;&#32032;&#30452;&#12395;&#12394;&#12428;&#12378;&#12289;&#12394;&#12363;&#12394;&#12363;&#27671;&#25345;&#12385;&#12434;&#20253;&#12360;&#12425;&#12428;&#12378;&#12395;&#12356;&#12427;

It talks about how Tifa can't convey her feelings easily... I don't think it's the UO =/
Does anyone recognize it off hand?

U20, talking about the dates? Even though she has trouble, she's getting better about expressing them?

 

[Dashell]

You're right it's the U20... and no Celes in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, but I want to make sure I have all the right sources for my site and that one was stuck with my Dismantled notes for some reason and I was fairly certain it wasn't from there.

You may now continue talking about Alex if you like

 

[Dashell]

Come ooooonnn!

Continue
I so did not mean to ruin the fun D:

 

[Vendel]

Come ooooonnn!

Continue
I so did not mean to ruin the fun D:

Eh? Uh...oh yeah. I had a brief encounter with her on youtube once. Basically linking the land of pink out of nowhere. I guess someone ran home to mama to complain about me. I commented that I only visit that site for a good laugh.

 

[Tifabelle]

The person on the front page has returned again. It's becoming increasingly difficult to follow along. Besides not actually making any points, she seems to be losing more and more command of basic english language as time goes on.

 

[Dashell]

Eh? Uh...oh yeah. I had a brief encounter with her on youtube once. Basically linking the land of pink out of nowhere. I guess someone ran home to mama to complain about me. I commented that I only visit that site for a good laugh.

I see what you did there.

 

[Eerie]

The same thing you do with the mouth of anything french.

Swear a lot? Because I swear that's what we do I don't think English can top us on that. XD

 

[Ryushikaze]

I see what you're saying now. I'd disagree, though, that Maiden implies the specific energy of those dead Cetra had already been recycled.

Diluted, sure. Melded with the stream as a whole, sure. But not necessarily recycled. For that matter, if it's diluted and melded with the stream as a whole, it's not likely to be as simple as sending Cetra A's spirit out to be recycled, then sending out Cetra B's, etc.

It'd be more like sending out 1/125,000 of Cetra A's spirit, and so on and so forth.

The interesting thing is that Maiden treats merging with the stream as basically the end of a Cetra's (and presumably other people's) individual consciousness, noting that her Mother was already merged and gone in 15 short years.

Fair enough, and we can let go of that particular point of contention since there's no way of knowing the level of awareness of the consciousnesses -- but that still doesn't address my primary point on the matter of the quote about Tifa being "the only witness to Cloud's blurry memory": that it was talking about the first half of the game, since it seemed to speak of being a witness to his screwed up memories and helping fix him as two separate events.

But the 'only witness' part can't really describe any other time, unless it's trying to say 'Tifa is the only one who knows Homeboy's head is screwed on wrong' which is really, really awkward.

"Bewitched" is something of an exception. Where no supernatural "poofs" are going on, and no POV psychological perception issues are at work, a jump cut occuring in the same place always involves a change in time.

Again, not always. They can just be used to highlight a dramatic moment, flashing two nearly identical POVs, or skipping the shot immediately back and forth without the specific intentional discontinuity aspect.

You're right about the second point, by the way. It's technically wrong to call it a jump cut if the angle is more than 30 degrees, because the viewer is less likely to believe the intention was to call their attention to the shift.

The scene with Seph, though, was still a fade and not a cut. A jump cut requires there be no fade out.

Point, Though the camera angle in the end FMV has jumped from the angle at the end of the battle, which is making me itch to make a lame 'cut and fade' joke.

I'm still fuzzy on what you meant by this. The opening shenanigans of DC took place the night that Hojo died and Shin-Ra fell.

Yeah, it originally was written to have taken place post-Sephy's demise, but that was a continuity blunder for so many reasons, and Case of Shin-Ra retconned it.

I'm trying to remember exactly what the reasons it was a blunder, aside from 'Yuffie and Vincent in Midgar instead of with the rest of the party, which they apparently weren't for the final cirling.
As well, CoShinra is pretty vague about how long Rufus spends in his saferoom, but implies it is some time from when he first fell in, but doesn't quite say how long. They do mention that Meteor had started whipping up a storm by that point. It does seem to be moved back a bit temporally, given Tifa is seen helping with the Evac, but it doesn't sound like it's moved that far back from the actual fall.
With the placid winds in the wastes north of Midgar during the under the highwind scene, it seems odd to be before then, if there was already a meteor induced windstorm in the area.
I suppose it could be in the time between under the Highwind and the final battle, which make the Hojo/Aerith scene happen.

Fades have often been used during boss battles to cover undepicted time, like when enemies scurry off.

I'm not sure what battles you're referring to, since I recall several times where the enemies scurry in boss battles and they can be visually seen to scurry away in battle. Which battles are you thinking of?

In fairness, I don't think the expressions on the faces of the battle animations ever change.

True, but if we're being anal about continuity, why stop at half measures?

I'll admit its fudging only in so far as one can reasonably assume -- due to the graphical limitations -- that Seph was smiling there despite there being no smile shown.

Fair enough.

It's one thing to let somebody go on thinking something stupid in the hope that they figure it out and better themselves for it. It's quite another to determine, "Oh, that goof thinks his girlfriend is dead. We'll just let him figure it out on his own. *giggle*"

Well, Bugen did kinda do just that with regards to his father.

In any case, unless the whole of Cosmo Canyon was in on making Nanaki look like an utter buffoon, and had planned this beforehand in case he ever returned, it's inconceivable that no one would have said something like, "Oh, yay, Nanaki's back! He'll be here when his bitch comes out of the shrine!" if sheactually existed.

Actually, here's a question- does he mention it to anyone other than Bugen? I mean, them omitting her is odd, though understandable, but I don't think he mentions to anyone else that he's the last of his ilk, or anyone ever comments on it.
Man Bugen's a dick, though. Just, period.

I'm happy you agree.

It's part of why I don't think Maiden is worth keeping, even if you can kludge it in.

I would enjoy that very much. And they really need to hire somebody for the job, since they're clearly not up to the task themselves.

It definitely needs to be someone capable of telling them 'No, that's just retarded.'

I feel like he'd have figured it out either way. She didn't know about Holy until she got to the Ancients' city, and he decided to kill her based just on the fact that she was going.

So regardless of sending Cloud the message, he'd have known she would learn of Holy when she got there. She was dead the moment she set out for the city.

Would he know she was going without overhearing the message from Cloud, though? It might be betraying her position that 'sealed her fate' rather than just going.

He was only gone for a prolonged period once he left and started staying in the church. Case of Tifa says he was home every night after work, right up until he exiled himself.

Yeah, Cloud was actually content right up to the point where his happiness and his guilt came to a head and he had to do something to save Denzel to 'make good.'

Sephiroth had the element of surprise any time he wanted it, though. That's the point.

He could look like anyone, fly, cast illusions so that no one would even know he was there, arguably phase through solid floors/walls, etc.

Now I have the Danny Phantom song going through my head and I must FILK IT. The worst part is how little I need to alter the lyrics.

As well, pg. 658 of the Dissidia Ultimania speaks of the heroes all going home to their respective worlds at the end of the game:

http://thelifestream.net/final-fant...-plot-of-final-fantasy-dissidia-012-duodecim/

It's definitely treated as canon for the characters featured.

As to when it fits into the timeline of each character's life, I think that's been rightly left up to the players to figure out. Not that it's difficult to come up with an answer.

I rather like the idea that for a number of folks, it's right after their final boss fights, especially Squall. Him being sucked into the Dissidia conflict between the last battle and arriving in that field has a real narrative appeal to it.
Of course, for WOL, it's the start of the final cycle.

The person on the front page has returned again. It's becoming increasingly difficult to follow along. Besides not actually making any points, she seems to be losing more and more command of basic english language as time goes on.

That is to be expected, actually, yes.
I will respond to ES later on.

Swear a lot? Because I swear that's what we do I don't think English can top us on that. XD

English is a Germanic language with a penchant for borrowing whatever it likes from any other language. It can top French swearing by the simple expedient of stealing French swearing and mixing it in with all our other stolen curses.

The correct answer, BTW, was ignore the mouth and make the attack from a completely different direction.
Usually Belgium.

 

[Ryushikaze]

My response to Eddie will be in this post (and I figure the chance for a double post is better than doubling the length of my last post. Look here for the post I am responding to.

So this makes people qualified to bash people for having an opinion? :/ OK then. Net nanny it ain&#8217;t, you sure are doing a horrible job and letting people think that it&#8217;s alright to bash people with different opinions.

Who said anything about qualified? I just said they can. That's one of the other sides of free speech. People get to say things you don't like. Sometimes horrible and hateful things. But you get to say things they don't like, either.
I do like the idea of a certification to qualify people to say horrible things. An asshole license if you were. Just to make sure you know how to do it right.

>>The hyperbole of &#8216;horrible turn&#8217; aside<.> and I am already saying for like ever since Vendel got on my case for that&#8230;just drop it. It&#8217;s there. No matter how much we hate it, it&#8217;s there.

Your response here seems to have become garbled and incoherent. You seem to skip between two or more trains of thought and your grammar and sentence structure take a nosedive.

But you are arguing for CloTi here aren&#8217;t you? :/ explain yourself. You just contradicted yourself.

The C/T conclusion is actually only a small part of what I am 'arguing for' which encompasses quite a lot of the narrative. That includes pointing out that for a time, Aerith was indeed gunning for Cloud because of her feelings for Zack.

So. Do you have a rule outlining what an opinion is too and what isn&#8217;t? :/

It's not my rule, but part and parcel of the language.

OK so how DOES that even count in the LTD? :/

Because it points out that the reaction to and treatment of Zack, an entirely non romantic relationship, post mortem is the much the same- and in some places identical to- the reaction to and treatment of Aerith, post mortem.

I amNOT even arguing that Cloud didn&#8217;t see Zack or whatever it is you&#8217;re arguing in here.

Actually, you did. You said he saw Aerith before he saw Zack. This is untrue. His flashbacks to Zack happen first. Now, his live conversation with Aerith happens first, but then it has to be contrasted with his later conversation with Zack, with both of them, and their leaving.

And yet why Aerith mattered so much for Cloud&#8217;s forgiveness of himself in the movie is something I&#8217;d like to know too and how you can explain it away.

Because she is the symbol of everyone he's failed. QED.

No, you&#8217;re guilty on that one, not me. If you can point out some canon wherein everybody was happy with it and had no shipping/ shipping bashing each other, then you can even actually win an argument like that. This is of course disregarding other types of shipping too, you know (yaoi, yuri, what else floats their boats). Heck, even giving someone a book and ask how it was for them has different experiences for different people. How this is any diffeent is rather laughable.

How is that even relevant to the subject of the Ultimanias and other officially Square/Square-Enix released materials being in extreme agreement on the subject? Yes, there's all sorts of stupid shipping out there- Avatar: The Last Airbender and Harry Potter are two excellent examples- but that's completely irrelevant to the point that the official sources all go 'Yes, this is the goddamn correct pairing.'

The Highwind scene is optional &#8211; HOW you get to spend it with Tifa IS optional. The feelings required to get certain events in the scene is optional.

And so too are the decisions and actions required to get Vincent and Yuffie in your party. But they are canonically in your party. In the game, yes, the highwind, the dates, the sidequests, are optional. But in the storyline, with the exception of apparently the date scene, the option vanishes. There IS a set path that happened. Cloud got Vincent and Yuffie in the party. He did go and kick Ruby weapon's ass, and he did confirm his feelings with Tifa underneath the highwind.

Oh really? Try and prove it.

Joke







Your head.
Princess Bride.
Of course, you're reminding me of Miracle Max as much as Vizzini. "To Blave"

And getting the high affection rating was pretty much OPTIONAL for the player right? :/

Getting Vincent and Yuffie is optional for the story. But in the official narrative, they joined the party. Same with the High Highwind scene.

In the Compilations you mean? :/ I had no problem recruiting McDohl in Suikoden 2 and it doesn&#8217;t do anything for the story, unless it is of course unlocking the protagonist&#8217;s 4th level spell, or some other. That and I love McDohl to death. That pretty much covers it all.

Canon, continuity, compilation, whatever you want to call it- there's a 'correct' version of the story. An example- in the remake of the original Fire Emblem, you have the option to sack one of two party members to cause a diversion in the tutorial prologue you keep the other one. In the hard mode of the game, which skips the prologue, you begin with one of these two characters in your party, meaning that there is a canon outcome to that choice.

Anyway if it WAS like that, you&#8217;d still get to know what the Wutai Wars were, or even Lucrezia, based on the Compilation&#8217;s recent games, even without recruiting those 2. It&#8217;s not like the FF 7 world stopped just because you didn&#8217;t recruit them. :/ that world&#8217;s history would still be there. They&#8217;re easily missable if you don&#8217;t like going after that mysterious ninja girl or even visiting a vampire zombie thing in the Shinra Mansion basement (which lets you lose some important Materia/weapons/accessories on the side).

All of which is entirely irrelevant. It's not that 'the story stops if you don't get these characters,' but 'The story says you DO get these characters, you DO get these things.

Seeing the first posts of this debate prove otherwise. :/ some people didn&#8217;t agree with it clearly.

Some people disagree with the Theory of Evolution. Some People think 9/11 was an inside job. Some people think Flouride is a communist plot. I don't care about some people. I care about the evidence of the games, movies, novellas, and guides, in other words, the canon, the continuity, the things that explain the continuity.

Wow. Where to begin. >.> You are claiming you aren&#8217;t making Cleriths feel bad, but the way you spout such CloTi even in your first post here against what I wrote &#8211; that I got my facts wrong and even going for the OG says it&#8217;s blatantly CloTi argument &#8211; is making me think otherwise.

Wait, when did I say I wasn't making them feel bad? I believe I said you wouldn't be censored, and that I don't think they should be made to feel bad about their pairing. I made no claims that no one wouldn't feel bad or be offended, but neither is my goal.

:/ If you&#8217;re going to keep at your stance, just do it and don&#8217;t backtrack/backpedal when one point is already pointed out for you.

That would require me actually backtracking. My position re: you feeling bad is pretty much the same as it ever was, I.E.- "I am not actively trying to make you feel bad."

Yeah, and having an ending canon like the other couples ARE for different FF games makes you think something must be wrong. And the people who posted before me who thinks that something probably is a bit different when you guys translated the entire thing. If they were consistently canon, you wouldn&#8217;t have them bashed and so am I. :/ and the shipdom wars across all genres will be gone forever.

J.K. Rowling calling the Harmonians delusional didn't stop Harry Potter ship wars. And your attempt to use the fact that there is a disagreement to argue the lack of a correct answer is as fruitless here as it is when IDiots use it when trying to Wedge strategy Intelligent Design into the classrooms.

>.>

<..> WAT.

You heard me. These aren't opinions. And I recognize that. It's a very useful thing to be able to discern.

Again, please refer to the first posts of this debate. :/ People suggesting some translations, all shot down.

Because they weren't actually offering translations. There was no actual discussion of the translation, no work shown, no pointing to Kanji and meanings and combinations thereof.

People who make otherwise innocent posts about other things get dragged out. Now, if you can pretty much explain to me what happened before I posted here and say that it&#8217;s all because of their &#8220;wrong&#8221; translations, then I will believe you.

Except they weren't innocent posts. And yes, they were largely because of wrong and incoherent translations, and plenty of confrontational arguments, like LadySephiroth.
Hell, I hesitate to call those translations.

Also that is rather a bad way of putting it. If this were a debate in real life, you could even get hurt or killed for being VERY rabid about disregarding people&#8217;s opinions when it came to your own beliefs. This does not make you entitled to cuss at people, or even outright bashing them because they are wrong. The way you wouldn&#8217;t LIKE it if a teacher or some generic rival singles you out for not knowing the right answer and then you get laughed at or bashed for it. Well this is how you guys run this site, and you probably have your own ways how to handle things here. But for me, taking spam, pornographic materials and illegal activities OVER basic decent human socialization skills is rather a bit off putting.

We don't 'take them' over basic human skills. We aren't POLICING basic human interaction. It's unnatural and unnecessary. We POLICE spam, pornography, and illegal things because those things need to be policed. Noth thought.

Dohohohohohohoho. Well Cloud IGNORED all her efforts to EVEN accept that light (and he&#8217;s more of a Sephiroth fanboy I guess).

Except for that part, where, you know, he finally did accept the light. And she is his light, according to Nojima and Nomura, the writer and director.

Also if Cloud knew that already, he wouldn&#8217;t even be doing run around travelling just so he can get to know more about that light.

Cloud was running about to find and defeat his darkness, though. He was running from the light 'from something warm' like he was in AC/C, and for similar reasons, we're told. He runs from the warmth and the light to protect it, even though it's the warmth and the light he needs to overcome his ordeals.

:/ traveling to explore his options and his reasons? Given the background of the Compilation and Ultimanias you are so mighty proud of, you sure as hell would actually realize that Cloud didn&#8217;t HAVE to wander about anymore, if they were already OMG TRUE LOVE for each other.

I'm sure you think this is an amazingle devastating point, but it's terribly incoherent, and you seem to shoot yourself in the foot with it by pointing out that if Cloud had found his 'OMG true love/light' in KH, he wouldn't be off again. And yet he is.

Of course, KH is again at best tangentially relevant to FF7's continuity, with FF7 influencing KH a lot more than the reverse.

And we have Aerith waiting for him at the end of KH2, they did promise to see each other and Aerith even telling him to &#8220;OK, you go ahead and do what you have to do, I&#8217;ll always just be here when you sort all things out&#8221;. Just one scene totally made you believe it WAS Tifa huh? WOW!

The scene where Tifa is revealed to be Cloud's light did make us believe that Tifa was in fact Cloud's light, yes.
That and Nomura and Nojima confirming the idea. Of course, light and love are two distinct but not exclusive things, but you wouldn't have known that for the 'ZOMFG AERITH IS HIS LIGHT TRUE LOVE' coming from the Pink camp before KH2 dropped.

Themselves? >.> I didn&#8217;t know there exists an entirely new me in another forum. Anyway Quexinos already invited me to her forum (if you saw her post too on this LTD page), if that would clear up your assumptions about me and that ES over there as a pair of&#8230;well&#8230;&#8221;themselves&#8221;&#8230; >.> I wouldn&#8217;t go as far as seeing what you also are on that so&#8230;yeah.

I said 'themself.' Singular. Yes, 'them' is often a plural indistinct gender personal pronoun, but I am decidedly an advocate of the use of 'them' and 'they' as singular gender indiscriminate personal pronouns. Additionally, I used 'self' which is a singular only construction. It is incidents like these that lead us to think your reading comprehension is not exactly optimal.

And yes, I've seen you joined Quex's forum.

 

[ForceStealer]

I find it hilarious that Bewitched has found its way into the LTD.

Carry on.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I find it hilarious that Bewitched has found its way into the LTD.

Carry on.

I can work the entire early Nick at Night lineup in there if you like.

"I love Yuffie" pretty much writes itself.

 

[Dana Scully]

I have nothing constructive to contribute, but I just have to say:

I saw this a few hours ago, and thought PRESS X TO DASH, and then proceeded to hum that retardedly fantastic song and now it's stuck in my head forever and fuck you, man, fuck. you.

allllways, i wanna beeee with you, and make belieeeeeve with you, and live in harmony harmony oh love!

 

[Splintered]

If this were a debate in real life, you could even get hurt or killed for being VERY rabid about disregarding people&#8217;s opinions when it came to your own beliefs. This does not make you entitled to cuss at people, or even outright bashing them because they are wrong.

Oh please.

Arbitrary victim complexes on the net are sort of my pet peeve.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Oh please.

Arbitrary victim complexes on the net are sort of my pet peeve.

It's also an odd message. 'People might attack you if you don't care what they think about what you think.' I'm still not sure why we need an extra entitlement to swear and call a spade a spade.
Of course, 'You're wrong' is what's being cast as bashing in the whole exchange, so yeah.

 

[Tifabelle]

If disagreeing with someone or pointing out that they're wrong is considered bashing, then she is equally guilty of it.

Also, since she keeps referring to her first post as opinion, I would point out exactly what is not opinion. She said something along the lines of CxA overtones and you would have to be blind not to see it. Something like that. Which apparantly she considers an opinion? There were other things, but I can't remember off the top of my head.