The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[The Twilight Mexican]

My article on FFVII canon and continuity is all-but-ready, guys. Just waiting on something from Mako to finalize it.

I dunno if he screams, but yeah, that's what he says during the date.

I like Yuffie's just cause Cloud has absolutely no time for her, lol.

Yuffie: "Cloud, say something. Say something!"
Cloud: "...something."

That was because she kissed him and he didn't know what to say.

It's the UO dude trust me, I was looking at it last night.

村を出る前、 好きな子であるティファを思い切って呼び出し、 ソルジャーになると宣言。 「俺はみんなとはちがう」というセリフからは. 「自分は特別」と言い聞かせることで、 素直になれない孤独な自分を守ってきた様子が透けて見える


that part means he likes her romantically.

I just wanna know if it's done so I don't have to do it

DO EET.

It's nothing special. That first line just says, "Before leaving the village, he resolutely called out his childhood love, Tifa, and made his declaration to become a SOLDIER."

It's one of those quotes we saw, went 'Yeah, we already know that' and forgot about for the longest time.

Really, that was the appropriate reaction. It's nothing we didn't already know.

He had a secret hard-on for Tifa the way he talked about it.

The self-loathing kind of secret hard-on.



Response to Ryu time:

The interesting thing is that Maiden treats merging with the stream as basically the end of a Cetra's (and presumably other people's) individual consciousness, noting that her Mother was already merged and gone in 15 short years.

It does seem to treat them that way, but as long as enough of them is still around, it seems possible to "wake" them up, as Aerith did with Zack. He didn't seem to have any awareness, really, until she accidentally caused his remaining energy to coalesce.

But the 'only witness' part can't really describe any other time, unless it's trying to say 'Tifa is the only one who knows Homeboy's head is screwed on wrong' which is really, really awkward.

Not if you're treating "witness" in the simple sense that she's the only one who notices. In any event, "witness" would be awkward for the Lifestream sequence too since she wasn't a passive observer, but was actually involved.

I also think it would be more awkward to describe her being a witness to his blurry memory, with "blurry memory" being a single event, than it would be to use "witness" for ongoing instances of his blurry memory.

Again, not always. They can just be used to highlight a dramatic moment, flashing two nearly identical POVs, or skipping the shot immediately back and forth without the specific intentional discontinuity aspect.

Even when highlighting a dramatic moment, there's the necessary assumption that some measure of time has passed if the perspective of the shot hasn't changed more than 30 degrees. Good point about the nearly identical POVs, though.

I'm trying to remember exactly what the reasons it was a blunder, aside from 'Yuffie and Vincent in Midgar instead of with the rest of the party, which they apparently weren't for the final cirling.

It was a disaster because it required assuming either that Vincent and Yuffie weren't with the rest of the party for the final battle with Sephiroth, which would be an inconsistency (AC/C showed them in the Northern Crater), or that the Highwind got back to Midgar at an earlier time than it was shown arriving in the ending of FFVII (the city was already being torn apart when the airship got close in the game), which would also be an inconsistency.

Not to mention it was just retarded for Rufus to have been in the ruins of the Shin-Ra building for a week before he was pulled out.

As well, CoShinra is pretty vague about how long Rufus spends in his saferoom, but implies it is some time from when he first fell in, but doesn't quite say how long. They do mention that Meteor had started whipping up a storm by that point. It does seem to be moved back a bit temporally, given Tifa is seen helping with the Evac, but it doesn't sound like it's moved that far back from the actual fall.

With the placid winds in the wastes north of Midgar during the under the highwind scene, it seems odd to be before then, if there was already a meteor induced windstorm in the area.

Case of Shin-Ra mentions the powerful storms from the game's ending kicked up after Rufus had been rescued and the Turks had already settled him in at Kalm. They were already back in Midgar to help with last-minute evacuations when those particular storms kicked up:

http://ffviinovels.lhyeung.net/caseofshinra/page08.php

You may be thinking of an earlier line ("With the Meteo closing in, a powerful storm was blowing") that also mentions a storm on the night the Turks were trying to rescue Rufus, but even the original game depicted such a storm that night. It begins raining after the Proud Clod explodes.

What's clear from Case of Shin-Ra is that the Turks looked for Rufus until they found him on the night Diamond attacked the city, that Rude and Reno saw Tifa and Yuffie assisting civilians during that time, that a storm was going on before the Turks found Rufus and after ("Rude stood in the darkness with the rain and harsh winds blasting against him"; the opening of DC also showed that there was a storm up while Rufus was being loaded into an ambulance), that there was a break in the storms, and that more then kicked up during Meteor's final approach.

As you said, the wasteland outside of Midgar was calm for the scene under the Highwind with Cloud and Tifa, so even the original game showed that the storm from the night Diamond attacked had let up.

To summarize: Rufus was rescued on the same night that he was injured by Diamond, the Turks relocated him to Kalm, and a week later, the Turks returned to Midgar on the night that Meteor closed in on the city.

I'm not sure what battles you're referring to, since I recall several times where the enemies scurry in boss battles and they can be visually seen to scurry away in battle. Which battles are you thinking of?

No immediate examples come to mind for FFVII other than Palmer, but it's been done in other games.

True, but if we're being anal about continuity, why stop at half measures?

Continuity isn't limited by the graphics of its time.

Well, Bugen did kinda do just that with regards to his father.

His dad was already dead, and Bugen apparently wanted Red to learn to love him without knowing the truth. It's far more extremely fucked up to let someone think a person who's still alive is dead. Not to mention it would be a much harder ruse to play.

Actually, here's a question- does he mention it to anyone other than Bugen?

Pretty much anybody who would listen would be my guess. I mean, if he's going to start blubbering about being the last of his kind when he has no reason to even think so, I'd expect to find him at the Starlight pub drunk and telling everybody in whining distance.

I mean, them omitting her is odd, though understandable, but I don't think he mentions to anyone else that he's the last of his ilk, or anyone ever comments on it.

Which, again, doesn't change that people around town would be likely to talk to him about it unless the whole town is already in on playing a sick trick on Red in case he ever comes back.

Man Bugen's a dick, though. Just, period.

He would have to be an emotional sadist of the highest order.

It's part of why I don't think Maiden is worth keeping, even if you can kludge it in.

At least worth as much as most titles that are canon. Hell, I'd definitely argue it's worth more than BC and CC.

It definitely needs to be someone capable of telling them 'No, that's just retarded.'

It seems pretty obvious that their quality assurance guys are capable of presenting nothing more than an awestruck expression and a rubber stamp.

Would he know she was going without overhearing the message from Cloud, though? It might be betraying her position that 'sealed her fate' rather than just going.

If he knew what she was capable of, he'd be keeping an eye on her anyway.

I rather like the idea that for a number of folks, it's right after their final boss fights, especially Squall. Him being sucked into the Dissidia conflict between the last battle and arriving in that field has a real narrative appeal to it.

It kind of does, actually.

Of course, for WOL, it's the start of the final cycle.

Yeah, he's the only one who shouldn't have already gone through his game already.

 

[Dashell]

It's nothing special. That first line just says, "Before leaving the village, he resolutely called out his childhood love, Tifa, and made his declaration to become a SOLDIER."

...

It's nothing special.

his childhood love, Tifa

It's nothing special.

...

Did you turn into a Clerith momentarily? How is that not special? O_O

 

[Tifabelle]

I think she he means because it's not news. We know Tifa is his childhood love.

 

[Dashell]

Tres is a girl now?

I didn't mean to imply that it was something NEW AND EXCITING!... but just that it said he liked her romantically as a kid. That's big because some people will try to argue against that or say it was just a crush he got over really fast

 

[Tifabelle]

Tres is a girl now?

I don't know what you're talking about

I didn't mean to imply that it was something NEW AND EXCITING!... but just that it said he liked her romantically as a kid. That's big because some people will try to argue against that or say it was just a crush he got over really fast

Or that you can't feel love at 14?

 

[Ryushikaze]

My article on FFVII canon and continuity is all-but-ready, guys. Just waiting on something from Mako to finalize it.

I already have dibs on his firstborn, man.

It's nothing special. That first line just says, "Before leaving the village, he resolutely called out his childhood love, Tifa, and made his declaration to become a SOLDIER."

Dammit Tres, QUEX was supposed to do that! The DO EET was more of a 'GET TO THE CHOPPA' joke than an actual demand/need for it translated.

Really, that was the appropriate reaction. It's nothing we didn't already know.

The things we have learned and forgotten probably outweighs what we still remember.

The self-loathing kind of secret hard-on.

The kind where you beat it with a stick?

It does seem to treat them that way, but as long as enough of them is still around, it seems possible to "wake" them up, as Aerith did with Zack. He didn't seem to have any awareness, really, until she accidentally caused his remaining energy to coalesce.

The point though, is that Aerith acts in Maiden like they are all gone to the point where they can't be roused, to the point of not even trying to call up Mom, the nearest to fresh there is, but casually calls them up in COLW.
Sure, that can be explained away by 'Stupid Aerith tricks' but like with the 'I totally know Cloud and Zack are different now/ What's something unique about Cloud? Thing about Zack!' I'd rather just cast it from the record.

Not if you're treating "witness" in the simple sense that she's the only one who notices. In any event, "witness" would be awkward for the Lifestream sequence too since she wasn't a passive observer, but was actually involved.

Maybe they mean it in the revival sense.
Either way, it's an awkward expression of 'Only Tifa knew Cloud's memories were jiggier than a puzzle'

I also think it would be more awkward to describe her being a witness to his blurry memory, with "blurry memory" being a single event, than it would be to use "witness" for ongoing instances of his blurry memory.

I considered it was referring to his memory as a whole being blurred and distorted, rather than a single memory.

Even when highlighting a dramatic moment, there's the necessary assumption that some measure of time has passed if the perspective of the shot hasn't changed more than 30 degrees. Good point about the nearly identical POVs, though.

General, not necessary, but that's hair splitting.

It was a disaster because it required assuming either that Vincent and Yuffie weren't with the rest of the party for the final battle with Sephiroth, which would be an inconsistency (AC/C showed them in the Northern Crater), or that the Highwind got back to Midgar at an earlier time than it was shown arriving in the ending of FFVII (the city was already being torn apart when the airship got close in the game), which would also be an inconsistency.

Yes, I was trying to make sure I was remembering it all.

Though it's hard to say when the airship actually arrived, given the disjointed nature of the final FMV. You could kludge it so that the gang landed, led an evac/shelter run at the last minute, then ran themselves, and there is sufficient timeskip between the daylight of the crater and the night sky of Midgar to make it happen in, but that's a pretty bad kludge.

Not to mention it was just retarded for Rufus to have been in the ruins of the Shin-Ra building for a week before he was pulled out.

Unlikely, but hilarious.

Case of Shin-Ra mentions the powerful storms from the game's ending kicked up after Rufus had been rescued and the Turks had already settled him in at Kalm. They were already back in Midgar to help with last-minute evacuations when those particular storms kicked up:

http://ffviinovels.lhyeung.net/caseofshinra/page08.php

You may be thinking of an earlier line ("With the Meteo closing in, a powerful storm was blowing") that also mentions a storm on the night the Turks were trying to rescue Rufus, but even the original game depicted such a storm that night. It begins raining after the Proud Clod explodes.

What's clear from Case of Shin-Ra is that the Turks looked for Rufus until they found him on the night Diamond attacked the city, that Rude and Reno saw Tifa and Yuffie assisting civilians during that time, that a storm was going on before the Turks found Rufus and after ("Rude stood in the darkness with the rain and harsh winds blasting against him"; the opening of DC also showed that there was a storm up while Rufus was being loaded into an ambulance), that there was a break in the storms, and that more then kicked up during Meteor's final approach.

As you said, the wasteland outside of Midgar was calm for the scene under the Highwind with Cloud and Tifa, so even the original game showed that the storm from the night Diamond attacked had let up.

To summarize: Rufus was rescued on the same night that he was injured by Diamond, the Turks relocated him to Kalm, and a week later, the Turks returned to Midgar on the night that Meteor closed in on the city.

My issue is more that the storms caused by Meteor's approach would Abate, since the meteorological effects would only get worse as it got closer, instead of calming down after a few hours. If they hadn't said the storm was Meteor induced, it wouldn't be nearly confusing.

Anyways, my point is more technically that CoS doesn't literally retcon the affair with specific dates, though it logically does.

No immediate examples come to mind for FFVII other than Palmer, but it's been done in other games.

Yeah, I'm not denying it ever happens, it just isn't the norm for FFVII.

Continuity isn't limited by the graphics of its time.

Warrior or Light has no mouth and you DAMN WELL KNOW IT. But it's one thing to say 'we can't tell because shitty graphics' and 'what happened is different than what we actually saw'

His dad was already dead, and Bugen apparently wanted Red to learn to love him without knowing the truth. It's far more extremely fucked up to let someone think a person who's still alive is dead. Not to mention it would be a much harder ruse to play.

Idunno, it seems pretty fucked up either way. I also disagree that it's harder to tell just go 'Yeah, they're dead' to someone who's already convinced of it.

Pretty much anybody who would listen would be my guess. I mean, if he's going to start blubbering about being the last of his kind when he has no reason to even think so, I'd expect to find him at the Starlight pub drunk and telling everybody in whining distance

'Oh there's Red again, blubbering about something again'
'What is it this time?'
'He thinks he's the last of his kind'
'Err, isn't his girlfriend sealed behind that rock but otherwise fine?'
'You know how he gets, man. Just let him work out his funk. Remember when Bugenhagen ate the last Pudding cup?'

Which, again, doesn't change that people around town would be likely to talk to him about it unless the whole town is already in on playing a sick trick on Red in case he ever comes back.

Well, they might think 'His girlfriend's stuck behind a rock, it's a sore subject, how'd you like to be reminded your chick was in prison' but yeah, epicycles upon epicycles.

He would have to be an emotional sadist of the highest order.

He has the laugh for it.

At least worth as much as most titles that are canon. Hell, I'd definitely argue it's worth more than BC and CC.

Most of BC, sure, but CC definitely rises a lot higher than Maiden does.
I still think there's shit that needs to be cut or tweaked, but Maiden is just written badly. It needs a redo from the ground up. Like BC.

It seems pretty obvious that their quality assurance guys are capable of presenting nothing more than an awestruck expression and a rubber stamp.

Well, maybe With Wada's recent 'ohshits' that might change.
Should still hire us.

If he knew what she was capable of, he'd be keeping an eye on her anyway.

I don't doubt. But she might have gotten him clued in on her position faster than otherwise.

It kind of does, actually.

For OK, I think it fits best if it's right after he's lost to CoD the first time.
I wonder what works best for Firi.
There are actually generally a number of good gaps in the ends of games for folks to Dissidi-ize during. Like the Timeski at the end of 9 for P. Ziddy, or as Tidus falls at the end of 10.

Yeah, he's the only one who shouldn't have already gone through his game already.

Not successfully, anyways.

 

[Winter]

aki and i read that fucking fanfiction, it was possibly the worst piece of writing i've ever read

hold me, aki, hold me

SEMEN WAS THE ONLY THING AERITH HAD EATEN SINCE SHE DIED

GOD WHAT THE FUCK

 

[Ryushikaze]

aki and i read that fucking fanfiction, it was possibly the worst piece of writing i've ever read

hold me, aki, hold me

SEMEN WAS THE ONLY THING AERITH HAD EATEN SINCE SHE DIED

GOD WHAT THE FUCK

That, AND the phrasing actually suggest the opposite too. 'Among other things, it was' as opposed to 'among other reasons, it was' implies she's eaten something else.
I wager Zack.

It's so fucking terrible it's hilarious. If you can stomach it, I can show you the MST.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

aki and i read that fucking fanfiction, it was possibly the worst piece of writing i've ever read

hold me, aki, hold me

SEMEN WAS THE ONLY THING AERITH HAD EATEN SINCE SHE DIED

GOD WHAT THE FUCK

IT WAS ARTISTIC NUDITY

AND YET HE GOT A BONER

CLOUD MUST BE FUCKING TERRIBLE AT ART MUSEUMS

'CLOUD--YOUR PANTS--' 'ITS JUST SO INSPIRING'

 

[Tifabelle]

It's so fucking terrible it's hilarious. If you can stomach it, I can show you the MST.

What's MST?

 

[Winter]

haha I actually would like to see the MST, I was considering MST-ing myself.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

aki and i read that fucking fanfiction, it was possibly the worst piece of writing i've ever read

hold me, aki, hold me

SEMEN WAS THE ONLY THING AERITH HAD EATEN SINCE SHE DIED

GOD WHAT THE FUCK

Even in death she's a cum-guzzling whore.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

What's MST?

MST is short for mystery science theater in reference to mystery science theater 3000 which would make fun of old, bad movies.

i watched the mst of manos:hands of fate while bedridden with ms. i think watching it so many times actually drove me slightly insane.

 

[Ryushikaze]

What's MST?

Mystery Sciency Theater 3000. A show in which three commentators (two of them operating puppets) make fun of old crazy B movies.

haha I actually would like to see the MST, I was considering MST-ing myself.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=107370

In all its 'glory'

 

[Vendel]

My article on FFVII canon and continuity is all-but-ready, guys.

Great. More essays telling us why Maiden should matter.

 

[Tifabelle]

I like the part where Cloud doesn't know where to kiss her, but yet knows that she's supposed to have a hymen. Still my favorite is how the junk that comes out of her vagina is the lifestream. That's really the gold right there.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

by that logic, aeriths vag should taste leik president shinra's dick

just think about that for a sec, cloud

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Great. More essays telling us why Maiden should matter.

Wait and see/read.

by that logic, aeriths vag should taste leik president shinra's dick

just think about that for a sec, cloud

Why do you think he couldn't sop up enough of that shit?



Also, I'm not the only one endlessly annoyed by the term "her sex," am I?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

i was bothered by how inspired cloud got

you'd think he'd paint the mona lisa right there on aerith's face with how inspired he got

 

[Tifabelle]

Also, I'm not the only one endlessly annoyed by the term "her sex," am I?

Just be glad he doesn't use the phrase "her flower". "Her sex" is less offensive than "Cloud's hole".

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I already have dibs on his firstborn, man.

Food or slave?

Dammit Tres, QUEX was supposed to do that! The DO EET was more of a 'GET TO THE CHOPPA' joke than an actual demand/need for it translated.

Your mistake.

The things we have learned and forgotten probably outweighs what we still remember.

Somebody ate Chinese tonight, I see.

The kind where you beat it with a stick?

"With," "like," take your pick.

The point though, is that Aerith acts in Maiden like they are all gone to the point where they can't be roused, to the point of not even trying to call up Mom, the nearest to fresh there is, but casually calls them up in COLW.
Sure, that can be explained away by 'Stupid Aerith tricks' but like with the 'I totally know Cloud and Zack are different now/ What's something unique about Cloud? Thing about Zack!' I'd rather just cast it from the record.

In the one case, though, Aerith was still pretty new to the whole Lifestream scene. In CotL White, she'd had a couple of years to figure stuff out.

And I still say Aerith was desperately walking through all her memories of Cloud trying to find things about him that were unique to him when she woke up Zack.

Maybe they mean it in the revival sense.

That must be it.

Either way, it's an awkward expression of 'Only Tifa knew Cloud's memories were jiggier than a puzzle'

It's Japanese.

I considered it was referring to his memory as a whole being blurred and distorted, rather than a single memory.

I worded it badly, but that's kind of what I meant. It would be weird to say that she became a witness to his blurry memory if referring to a single event (the Lifestream sequence) when she was noticing for much of the game that he was off.

My issue is more that the storms caused by Meteor's approach would Abate, since the meteorological effects would only get worse as it got closer, instead of calming down after a few hours. If they hadn't said the storm was Meteor induced, it wouldn't be nearly confusing.

I don't disagree that it's stupid that the storms would have ever stopped once they started.

Warrior or Light has no mouth and you DAMN WELL KNOW IT. But it's one thing to say 'we can't tell because shitty graphics' and 'what happened is different than what we actually saw'

Okay then. We can't tell because shitty graphics.

Idunno, it seems pretty fucked up either way. I also disagree that it's harder to tell just go 'Yeah, they're dead' to someone who's already convinced of it.

It is pretty fucked up either way, but I guess Bugen thought he had his reasons. Anyway, even if Red already believed she was dead, there's still everybody else who presumably isn't in on helping Bugen's little glow worm sprout by making Red cry.

'Oh there's Red again, blubbering about something again'
'What is it this time?'
'He thinks he's the last of his kind'
'Err, isn't his girlfriend sealed behind that rock but otherwise fine?'
'You know how he gets, man. Just let him work out his funk. Remember when Bugenhagen ate the last Pudding cup?'

Sad that our making fun of the Compilation is more fun than the Compilation. =(

Good work, by the way.

Most of BC, sure, but CC definitely rises a lot higher than Maiden does.

Really now?

Well, maybe With Wada's recent 'ohshits' that might change.

They've only just realized they're fallible. It's a long road to redemption.

For OK, I think it fits best if it's right after he's lost to CoD the first time.

Not a bad time for it.

I wonder what works best for Firi.

He's definitely post-game altogether.

There are actually generally a number of good gaps in the ends of games for folks to Dissidi-ize during. Like the Timeski at the end of 9 for P. Ziddy, or as Tidus falls at the end of 10.

I've never really thought about where Tidus could have been plucked from, being on the Farplane for two years like he was anyway. That's a good suggestion for Zidane, though.

Not successfully, anyways.

Ouch. Below the belt much?

 

[Winter]

i still don't understand how he swallows aerith's she jizz (which he "caught in his mouth", mfw alex doesn't understand female orgasms at all) and then magically inherits her memories

what the dicks

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

i thot that was how sex worked

man i am so confused now

 

[Zee]

Or that you can't feel love at 14?

 

[Tifabelle]

Lolz. I was hoping you'd catch that.