The Final Fantasy VII LTD Thread (Round 4)

[Tifabelle]

I think your missing the point in Tifa's character arc where she comes to terms with the reasons for her joining AVALANCHE. The group stopped caring about mako energy and Shinra more or less after their encounters with Sephiroth, and the greater danger to the Planet. Their objectives changed. And Tifa later found her place with the bar and her family - that was how she was dealing with her guilt over her participation in AVALANCHE. (see beginning of CoT)

As for Barret, I don't think his leaving diminishes his role as Marlene's father. She's even seen at the end of AC/C holding his hand. I think Barret didn't see a role for himself at the bar, and felt he needed a different way to atone for his sins. In Case of Barret, it states that Marlene gives him peace of mind, and that she's "his heart's crutch". That's the reason they give for him leaving. Whether it's a good one or not (sounds not good to me), I guess Barret feels like being with Marlene makes him not atone for his past sins because she takes his mind off it, and that makes him feel guilty.

 

[Zee]

My point is that yeah, I get Tifa's the kind of character that would rather settle down (I don't think she'd fight if she didn't have to) but there's a serious lack of follow up to all the shit they caused in FF7. I mean ffs, she was about to be executed on national television for treason. Wouldn't somebody on the street remember this? I mean, even if she wasn't going to run around with Barret looking for oil, shouldn't she have had more of a personal redemption arc as well? We get that one moment in CoT and then it's pretty much dropped.

More things her novella could have included instead of Cloud angst.

 

[Tifabelle]

My point is that yeah, I get Tifa's the kind of character that would rather settle down (I don't think she'd fight if she didn't have to) but there's a serious lack of follow up to all the shit they caused in FF7. I mean ffs, she was about to be executed on national television for treason. Wouldn't somebody on the street remember this?

This was something Ryu mentioned in recent past. An interesting point of mention would be family members of those killed by AVALANCHE's response to them, especially them being called heroes. Or how the general public feels about their AVALANCHE actions.

More things her novella could have included instead of Cloud angst.

Agree.

 

[Splintered]

More things her novella could have included instead of Cloud angst.

I loved her novella and thought the Cloud dynamic was appropriate because of the family theme. But yeah, lack of follow up and it did feel like a hijacking sometimes. I wonder if it was because originally it was only hers and Denzel's story, and Tifa's was like a direct prequel to AC/C.

I'd love to see independent Tifa arcs. But at the same time I would find it out of character not to worry about the family around her. Maybe some sort of nice balance. Or a pre-Cloud Tifa thing.

As for Barret, I don't think his leaving diminishes his role as Marlene's father.

I don't think it does either, but it dminishes his role in the story as Marlene's father. I'm in favor of the Cloud/Tifa/Marlene/Denzel family thing, but Barret as the father and probably the closes to Tifa and maybe Cloud, I just felt that he was almost put on the bus.

More Barret please. And none of his AC/C idiot nonsense, but the heartwarming, rough around the edges but best-friend role.

AND SINCE I PROMISED:

Spoiler: For Splintered: wintery Titning

ngl, I couldn't remember what Lightning's outfit looked like =\

hurrr tifa looks kinda weird but whateva, I like how Lightning came out ;_;

<333333333333333333333333 Awesome

By the way you have great handwriting.

 

[Dashell]

My point is that yeah, I get Tifa's the kind of character that would rather settle down (I don't think she'd fight if she didn't have to) but there's a serious lack of follow up to all the shit they caused in FF7. I mean ffs, she was about to be executed on national television for treason. Wouldn't somebody on the street remember this? I mean, even if she wasn't going to run around with Barret looking for oil, shouldn't she have had more of a personal redemption arc as well? We get that one moment in CoT and then it's pretty much dropped.

More things her novella could have included instead of Cloud angst.

Well I think Case of Barret should have covered the Barret redemption story... but from what I can tell it didn't happen then either

and just to put my two cents in, I think Denzel has a lot of potential. I liked his story and such. I wouldn't mind having some Cloud and Denzel training moments in the future. I realize I'm rather alone on this but he really didn't bother me that much at all

I was also really glad they added that scene in ACC where he is running back to the bar and there's chaos and he takes out that Shadow Creeper. It used to really bug me that it didn't show how he got back, what with him having Geostigma and there being Shadow Creepers and all. So good on them for adding that.

 

[Tifabelle]

and just to put my two cents in, I think Denzel has a lot of potential. I liked his story and such. I wouldn't mind having some Cloud and Denzel training moments in the future. I realize I'm rather alone on this but he really didn't bother me that much at all

I think that'd be fun. I like Denzel too, so you're not alone.

 

[Dashell]

I always felt he was the target of much hate he didn't deserve. He's one of the main characters in my fanfic too (also some Cloti stuff in there)

/shameless plug

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I too want to see moar of Denzel. Cloud met him in the church and he uses a metal rod as his weapon. Iz Clerith proofz, kthxbai.

 

[Dashell]

I'd say he used the fire hydrant more than the rod

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

My point is that yeah, I get Tifa's the kind of character that would rather settle down (I don't think she'd fight if she didn't have to) but there's a serious lack of follow up to all the shit they caused in FF7. I mean ffs, she was about to be executed on national television for treason. Wouldn't somebody on the street remember this? I mean, even if she wasn't going to run around with Barret looking for oil, shouldn't she have had more of a personal redemption arc as well? We get that one moment in CoT and then it's pretty much dropped.

I think CoT implied that her redemption was raising Denzel. ::goes to check:: Yeah:

(From LH Yeung/XComp's translation)

After Denzel recovered, she listened to Denzel's story about everything that happened to him before he arrived here. Then she thought to herself that he was meant to come here. He was one of the victims when Sector Seven was destroyed.
Sector Seven was destroyed was because of us. That's why I had to take responsibility and raise him. He didn't go to Cloud's place. He met Cloud so that he could come to my place.

This was something Ryu mentioned in recent past. An interesting point of mention would be family members of those killed by AVALANCHE's response to them, especially them being called heroes. Or how the general public feels about their AVALANCHE actions.

I thought ACC was going to address this with that added scene of Denzel recalling the destruction of Sector 7. Shame it didn't do that.



By the way, everyone should watch the newest episode of "iCarly," entitled "iStart a Fan War." Highly relevant to the LTD.

 

[Madame Mayor]

By the way, everyone should watch the newest episode of "iCarly," entitled "iStart a Fan War." Highly relevant to the LTD.

Cloud met him in the church and he uses a metal rod as his weapon. Iz Clerith proofz, kthxbai.

I thought it was adorable the way he swung the rod around, looked like Cloud taught him that.

Also - Hey Denzel, I know your parents just died and everything, so now we are going to give you a new mommy and daddy... but the mommy's already dead so you are going to live with another woman who will insert herself into your daddy's life to the point that he abandons you to go in flower fields to hang out with your new dead mommy. Enjoy!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm totally serious. Watch it, yo.

 

[Vendel]

Also - Hey Denzel, I know your parents just died and everything, so now we are going to give you a new mommy and daddy... but the mommy's already dead so you are going to live with another woman who will insert herself into your daddy's life to the point that he abandons you to go in flower fields to hang out with your new dead mommy. Enjoy!

Gotta love that Cloud. He so loves Aerith that he would abandon the (sick) child that she brought only to him, just to be with her.

Truly a man to be desired. Right ladies?

I'm totally serious.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

http://icarly.wikia.com/wiki/IStart_a_Fanwar

 

[Ryushikaze]

tbh I never understood why Barret was the only one actively looking for another energy source. I get that Cloud was more of a tag along to Avalanche, but Tifa was a key member and really seemed to care about their goals.

Seems irresponsible to go out of your way to destroy a nation's prime energy source and then let someone else deal with finding a new one. It's like trashing a restaurant and leaving one guy with the bill for the damages.

Except when that restaurant is a front for the mob. I get what you're saying, but you're ignoring the other implications of the energy source. And it wasn't the only source, they just lacked an equivalent one.

This was something Ryu mentioned in recent past. An interesting point of mention would be family members of those killed by AVALANCHE's response to them, especially them being called heroes. Or how the general public feels about their AVALANCHE actions.

That's one reason I figure they went mundane. I have a 'druthers' explanation where Cloud and Tifa, at least, gave their share of the credit to Zack and Aerith in 'official reports' just to avoid the fallout.

I loved her novella and thought the Cloud dynamic was appropriate because of the family theme. But yeah, lack of follow up and it did feel like a hijacking sometimes. I wonder if it was because originally it was only hers and Denzel's story, and Tifa's was like a direct prequel to AC/C.

I'd love to see independent Tifa arcs. But at the same time I would find it out of character not to worry about the family around her. Maybe some sort of nice balance. Or a pre-Cloud Tifa thing.

Post DoC finding Zangan before he dies could work well. A Modern, Training, and AVALANCHE era combined story.

I don't think it does either, but it dminishes his role in the story as Marlene's father. I'm in favor of the Cloud/Tifa/Marlene/Denzel family thing, but Barret as the father and probably the closes to Tifa and maybe Cloud, I just felt that he was almost put on the bus.

More Barret please. And none of his AC/C idiot nonsense, but the heartwarming, rough around the edges but best-friend role.

What was your thought on CoB?

Well I think Case of Barret should have covered the Barret redemption story... but from what I can tell it didn't happen then either

It did. But it was very subtle. His redemption Arc is doing things to help others, to find a way to make things better without fighting.

I too want to see moar of Denzel. Cloud met him in the church and he uses a metal rod as his weapon. Iz Clerith proofz, kthxbai.

So... Denzel is Aerith? Aerith is Cloud's adtoped son?
This is getting confusing.

Also - Hey Denzel, I know your parents just died and everything, so now we are going to give you a new mommy and daddy... but the mommy's already dead so you are going to live with another woman who will insert herself into your daddy's life to the point that he abandons you to go in flower fields to hang out with your new dead mommy. Enjoy!

In less sarcastic terms, making Aerith the symbolic replacement mother for his dead mother makes no sense, especially when ACC goes out of its way to reinforce the Cloud/Tifa/Denzel family dynamic, especially emphasizing she's his replacement mom.
And IF Aerith sent Denzel to be with Cloud, she wouldn't want him abandoning the kid to be with her. She would have sent him to Cloud so as to be a part of Cloud and Tifa's family.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Hey Denzel, we heard your first dead mom was defective, so we've replaced her with a new dead mom.

Enjoy

 

[Splintered]

What was your thought on CoB?

I liked CoB from what I remember.

I think I've always had some problems with the writing (though I attributed that to the fact that whoever writing is not an experience novelist and translation issues) but as far as character studies go, it was much needed. I think people too quickly attribute to that big, angry, not very smart guy. But as much as he is hot headed, there's a part of him that really is introspective, he just doesn't show it to other often.

Him leaving Marlene did jarr me a little. I mean, Marlene is such a big part of who he is, I can't see him as complete without her, she's suppose to be his balance. I mean, even his official cg image is with her (the one at the church- Oh shi- BARRETxAERITH OTP). I still have problems with it tbh. Even if I "get it."

The only part that redeems it for me is his reasoning, he went to find himself as a person. Barret has some serious issues he needs to address, like that time with DYne where he also believes he killed too much to be allowed with Marlene (my hands are too stained- or something like that).

I think it's liek Barret to go and try to do something good. He's never been a passive character, and I always thought that without Barret, there would be no Final Fantasy. He's the one that started Avalance (when most of the characters started out with little motivation whatsoever). And although he never took charge after Cloud left, it's him that essentially got the ball rolling by appointing Cid as the leader- and without Barret, I don't think Cid would have particularly cared to be leader. He's also the one that got Tifa on her feet to make the second Seventh Heaven. Him looking to do good makes sense, and II find it appropriate to see that he was around to find oil, and that's he's actively finding energy sources.

I liked how awkward it was for him, especially since all he's ever known is violence. And that he's self aware, even if he is a bit bumbling, because he doesn't know how quite to react to a peaceful/reconstructivist society.

tl;dr I like how they presented him, I liked the way he went, but I really don't like how they separated Marlene from him. I suppose it was necessary for him to find redemption and grow as a character- but he will never be complete as a character until he is with Marlene again and can live his life with his daughter. Him being a father is too important to who he is, he needs that balance.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Hey Denzel, we heard your first dead mom was defective, so we've replaced her with a new dead mom.

Enjoy

yo dog we herd you like dead moms so we replaced your dead mom with a dead mom so you can cry while you cry

 

[Dashell]

Here's a question, let's say Aerith did lead Denzel to Cloud... why? What's so special about Denzel? Why not some other kid?... Why do I have this feeling we're going to find out someday... i really kinda hope not.

wait that's not LTD related uhm...

okay here, here's something someone on another forum said:

Her name, Orihime, it was in an interview about her character. In that interview, the fan asked him about Orihime and Kubo, the writer, said that "Orihime is a sweetheart isn't she?"--the word used was koibito. And I can tell you right now, Orihime has never been the lover(or girlfriend)of anyone.

Just curious, any thoughts?...

 

[Ryushikaze]

Here's a question, let's say Aerith did lead Denzel to Cloud... why? What's so special about Denzel? Why not some other kid?... Why do I have this feeling we're going to find out someday... i really kinda hope not.

wait that's not LTD related uhm...

okay here, here's something someone on another forum said:


Just curious, any thoughts?...

Citation seriously needed.
Also... Which of her 'sisters' was it?

 

[Dashell]

HOLY FUCK! A while back I sent someone some stuff to tranlsate from the UO, I don't remember WHERE this one was but:

By the way, with Tifa, she did not realize Cloud held feelings towards her until he confessed in the life-stream. Even though she was called out and it was only the two of them, she can be quite clueless.

OH PLEASE DEAR GOD LET IT BE REAL THIS TIME! I'm looking into it to be sure.

EDIT:
Okay it comes after this one
Despite Cloud having a good will, Tifa did not have any interest towards Cloud, and it was only at the time when they exchanged their promises that she started to take more notice in him. Part of that reason may be because of her loneliness of losing her friends around her, but more than that, him saying he will become a hero had the biggest impact of all.

So Cleriths will probably say it's just saying he told her he had feelings for her as a kid. But we know the older Cloud would be happy to hear that she started looking for him soo

 

[Eerie]

Here's a question, let's say Aerith did lead Denzel to Cloud... why? What's so special about Denzel? Why not some other kid?... Why do I have this feeling we're going to find out someday... i really kinda hope not.

wait that's not LTD related uhm...

okay here, here's something someone on another forum said:


Just curious, any thoughts?...

Lies, I know every single interview of Kubo, and he never spoke of Inoue in those terms.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Lies, I know every single interview of Kubo, and he never spoke of Inoue in those terms.

Doesn't surprise me. The speaker of Quex's quotation is a known liar. Arguably pathologically.

 

[Dashell]

Wow you guys, Do you not realize the significance of the quote I just posted that says Cloud confessed to liking Tifa in the lifestream? Okay here's the text for that one I just posted:

&#12385;&#12394;&#12415;&#12395;&#12486;&#12451;&#12501;&#12449;&#12399;&#12289; &#12463;&#12521;&#12454;&#12489;&#12363;&#33258;&#20998;&#12395;&#22909;&#24847;&#12434;&#25265;&#12356;&#12390;&#12356;&#12383;&#12392;&#12356;&#12358;&#12371;&#12392;&#12395;&#12289; &#12521;&#12452;&#12501;&#12473;&#12488;&#12522;&#12540;&#12512;&#12391;&#21578;&#12370;&#12425;&#12428;&#12427;&#12414;&#12391;&#12414;&#12387;&#12383;&#12367;&#27671;&#12389;&#12356;&#12390;&#12356;&#12394;&#12363;&#12387;&#12383;&#12290;

The bolded part is what this person translated into "feelings." It's a word that means "good will" or "favor." I remember Hito telling me that &#22909;&#12365;&#12394;&#20154; is used for when you like someone romantically. in both cases the kanji &#22909; is used.... but... I don't know if it's the same both times or not. I guess we'll have to wait for Hito's verdict on the matter... or someone else maybe?

 

[Eerie]

I can googletranslate or babelfish if you want, those are hilarious

And Ryu, you'd be surprised at how many fake interviews from Kubo exist down there x______X" Which is exactly why I hunted the real ones down, to be able to say "bullshit" and give the right ones right away.