The Genesis Sequel

[OWA-2]

[quote author=Dacon link=topic=488.msg29713#msg29713 date=1236913638]SE isn't retarded enough to do such a thing, and if they do I will lose all respect I ever had for them as creators of inventive fantasy.[/quote]

Will you blame the whole company, for the bad decision of one team?

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=OWA-2 link=topic=488.msg29715#msg29715 date=1236914169]
[quote author=Dacon link=topic=488.msg29713#msg29713 date=1236913638]SE isn't retarded enough to do such a thing, and if they do I will lose all respect I ever had for them as creators of inventive fantasy.[/quote]

Will you blame the whole company, for the bad decision of one team?
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure the ideas have to be approved by some higher up. But no, I suppose it won't the fault of the entirety of the company.

 

[Suzaku]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=488.msg19206#msg19206 date=1234910095]I have no words. I...still think Sephiroth's will is gone but if they want to bring it, as you said...[/quote]

I'm pretty sure Sephiroth's will is still around. After all, at the end of AC, it's not like he was killed or anything, he basically just tells Cloud, "retreating for now, bbl."

Keep in mind that he's been killed twice, and both time he's brought himself back together. I don't really expect that we'd see Lucrecia become an avatar of Sephiroth, but I could see her being used as a puppet.


I like the general idea, though. I do think Genesis trying to bring back Zirconiade might be a bit much, especially if it's to save the world -- Zirconiade is known as the "World Burning Summon". If it's just a "save the Planet from its inhabitants" it would basically become a rehash of the villains from BC and DC.

I also couldn't see Genesis abandoning his SOLDIER pride and pulling a Fuhito to "save the world" by killing innocents. Genesis has a lot more options to be an original than that. There are still secrets to his DNA, and exactly what it means for his degeneration to be cured is unknown -- did Minerva remove the influence of Jenova from his body, has he become a "success" in the same regard as Sephiroth, or something else?

I'd rather see less indiscriminate role and, perhaps, more benevelont, but working on his own in a manner that may or may not be at odds with the heroes. His relationship with Cloud could especially be interesting, considering that in the end, he greatly respected Zack and even considered him a sort-of-replacement for Sephiroth in his lifelong wish. With Cloud having become Zack's living legacy and protecting the Planet after his death, they could have a very interesting dynamic.


In closing, I would like to clarify some timeline discrepencies in your idea.

Genesis was recovered by Nero and Weiss in early Autumn [ ? ] - ??? 0007, almost a month before Zack was actually killed, about three months before Final Fantasy VII began.

The Multiplayer Mode of Dirge of Cerberus at least starts two years before DC, roughly at the same time as Final Fantasy VII, and certainly before Meteorfall, as new recruits are still being brought there. At the time of Multiplayer Mode, Genesis had to have already declined to help Weiss and Nero and sealed himself away, as Weiss and Nero had already been captured and restrained by the Restrictors as they were considered to great a threat.

 

[Makoeyes987]

If Sephiroth's will was still around though, Geostigma would be too. That doesn't really make any sense. Why would Sephiroth willingly let go of Geostigma and his entire negative lifestream when it would be the perfect avenue of his revival and him achieving his goal?

It just doesn't mesh. The Negative Lifestream is connected to his presence and will. If its gone. He's gone. So if he were to come back, he'd have to start from scratch. His defeat, while ominous, isn't any different than any of the other villains of Final Fantasy who essentially said the same thing.

 

[Masamune]

His will could be weakened, not necessarily annulled. All of his remnants were destroyed, and Aerith found a pore to release the holy water, therefore Sephiroth probably has little say in the matter.

I think part of his will is there, lurking in the Lifestream, waiting for an opportunity. If you think about it, he only returned in AC because of a lucky fluke.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Goddamn you Masamune, not you too!!! *head desk*

Let's see what ACC says on the matter. I still think he is gone, but let's see how they do his fight and defeat now. Maybe they'll do something more in the vein of the original FFVII. Who knows.

 

[Suzaku]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=488.msg30051#msg30051 date=1236985585]If Sephiroth's will was still around though, Geostigma would be too.[/quote]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there still people with Geostigma in DC? The DGS basically scan for clean people since they need untainted Lifestream to call out Omega, and simply kill those infected with Geostigma, right? It might not be actively damaging people, but Sephiroth might simply be giving it a rest.

I've got to agree with Masamune on this. Sephiroth appears, at least to me, to have willingly retreated, giving the "I will never be a memory" line. Morikawa's voice acting was even supposed to give a sense that Sephiroth wasn't done yet.

 

[Makoeyes987]

They have Jenova cells, but they aren't suffering from the disease. They don't have the marks, the symptoms and they aren't even dying. The disease itself is gone, and is listed as only appearing in AC in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania. So I think it was a mistake for them to refer to Jenova cells as Geostigma.

And while he appeared to willingly retreat, he's listed as having been defeated because he was. It's no different than Necron "retreating" or Seymour stating ominously that Spira's sorrow would never end, even if he were defeated. It's typical villain bravado.

 

[Masamune]

It's not retreating. It's "advancing in another direction".

I don't think he retreated anyway. He lost - plain and simple. But that doesn't stop me believing his will is out there somewhere in the spirit world.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well his will is naturally in the lifestream but its going to eventually get diluted into the natural order of things.

Or become a materia.

 

[Masamune]

Well his will is naturally in the lifestream but its going to eventually get diluted into the natural order of things.

Not unless he performs another escape act!

Or become a materia.

I CHOOSE YOU - SEPHIROTH!!

 

[Tetsujin]

Nomura said they already have an idea regarding the next game.

Even though nothing will be happening anytime soon, I'd still like to know what exactly it is that they have in mind.

I just hope it'll be PS3.

 

[BWAngel]

To be or not to be?

And while he appeared to willingly retreat, he's listed as having been defeated because he was. It's no different than Necron "retreating" or Seymour stating ominously that Spira's sorrow would never end, even if he were defeated. It's typical villain bravado.

I guess we won't really know until ACC comes out. Anyway, SE has to keep the Sephiroth fan girls/boys happy, so either he is going to come back again or he has an unknown son/daughter somewhere (Riku not included.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Anyway, SE has to keep the Sephiroth fan girls/boys happy,

No they don't.

 

[BWAngel]

No they don't.

Ah, true, but still they are going to suck as much money as they can out of the hype so, what better way then draggin' a dead, sexy dog in the mud?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

The more they focus on telling a story (and finishing it. For good. For ever. Ever) and the less they focus on pandering to fans/money the better off they'll be.

I know that sounds completely opposite to what people think it should be, but I believe that in the long run, producers need to focus more on telling their story instead of making money.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Honestly, if you go by the creator interviews, they really go into making these Compilation titles with the intent of making a fun game first. They think of the story details second. Honestly, I don't think that's a problem because they obviously are thinking of the enjoyment of fans and players first, as they should. Their first goal is making a game.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Ah, of course. What I was thinking of, however, was the factor of telling a story vs. making (continuous amounts) money, which really applies to all fictional media but fun factor is first and foremost in a video game. I know that enjoyment of the fans and players is first priority in THAT regard, but what I meant is the fault that I see when companies (and not just video games) pump out sequel and story after story just to appease fans.

Sometimes the mark of a great storyteller is just to go; "The story is over, deal with it."

 

[Neo Bahamut]

A little late into the thread, here's what I have to say on all of this:

Compilation of Final Fantasy VII. As was stated earlier, "Sephiroth is the iconic villain of FFVII." I don't believe Sephiroth is undergoing Badass Decay, but to those who do, wouldn't it just be finalized if he was overshadowed by some third-rate predecessor like Genesis or Weiss? I'm not saying they're bad characters, but they were never designed to usurp Sephiroth, so if Sephiroth didn't make a reappearance, we'd have:

No conclusion.
A spoiling of the original plot.
An entirely new plot, completely unconnected to the original.

The last thing doesn't sound so bad, but it's essentially a giant asspull to make money. Now, while I don't like that criticism, because EVERYTHING is to make money, if it doesn't add to Final Fantasy VII in any way, it has no place in the Compilation.

Save that shit for Final Fantasy XIV.

The additions to the Compilation are numerous, & a tad superfluous, but they all keep up an engaging story. That's important.

Throw out all the hints that Sephiroth is going to come back, & you lose that edge. The Compilation will have, at last, become the self-fulfilling prophecy of overrated suckage that many people are determined to make it out as.

Now, Nomura has stated that the Compilation isn't over yet, but it's difficult to come up with new ideas. And I can see that. If you make Sephiroth a calculating & manipulative villain from the start, you have FFVII. If you do a prequal before he goes batshit insane, you have CC. If you have him show up at the end for a final showdown, you have AC.

I think that Nomura will be able to come up with something good, but that's just me. All of these recent titles strike me as not only setting something up, but polishing his story weaving skills for the big one(s?). Again, just me.

Now, as to the return of Sephiroth: Yeah, he can do it. As long as he retains will in the Lifestream, he will always have some power. Aerith showed that when she released Great Gospel to heal Geostigma, & the Case of the Lifestream: Black novella emphesizes this, among many other things about Sephiroth's character.

He has, in short, gone off the deep end. He considers memories of his childhood, his friends, & even his appearance "irrelevent." He's left with the basics: Hatred & pride.

If he follows suit with other villains like Genesis & Rufus, he will be redeemed in the end, & finally diffuse into the Lifestream, of his own free will. Jenova will likely still be around, but at an even MORE reduced threat level. I have mixed feelings about this, but this is the only way I can see Sephiroth being "defeated."

It is, however, not the only possibility for a resolution to him. It is just the only possibility that I can foresee.

Well, there you go. A TL;DR post for a TL;DR thread. Take it as you will, but it won't be a true sequal without Sephiroth. To make a point about how upstaging the original is not a good idea: How many people in this thread said they wouldn't play a game starring Genesis? There wasn't nearly as much objection to him being added as a party member.

 

[loverofCloud]

even if i really hope in another sequel but please.. enough of Sephiroth,it's always the same story.. and Genesis .. Well i can't stand Gackt LOL.. but they showed us Vincent,Sephiroth and Zack's past.. so i would to see more about Cloud's past (about his parents etc ) considering that he is the main ff 7 character.

 

[NoenGaruth]

but they showed us Vincent,Sephiroth and Zack's past.. so i would to see more about Cloud's past (about his parents etc ) considering that he is the main ff 7 character.

Well really they've already showed us all the relevant details about Cloud's past, anything more and it'd start to ruin things just like in dirge with the whole thing about Vincent's father.

Methinks Square has covered enough about the past during the compilation and so in a final sequal game they should be looking towards the future instead and wrapping up al the unanswered questions rather than just opening the door to even more.

 

[Smaddy]

If they made a FFVII-2, I often wondered if they'd explore having Denzel and Marlene being the main characters. They certainly seem to set up a very basic parallel of Denzel & Marlene and Cloud & Aerith. Of course that would mean the game would be set 10 years after AC/C, since both of them (D&M) are quite young.

There's the Genesis hint there. And it seems to me like Shinra isn't exactly playing nicely, as seen in AC/C, when it comes to Cloud/Avalanche. Then again, Rufus is apparently funding parts of the WRO/the Sierra.

I would not want Sephiroth to return in a sequel. They've exhausted that already, and to have him return again would just be too much of a stretch. Same goes for Aerith and Zack. Enough. But not that my little post here means anything to SquEnix, and therefore they'll probably do it anyhow.

At first, you think a lot is resolved. But then when you look at it, there's a lot that isn't resolved.

 

[Max Payne]

If they made a FFVII-2, I often wondered if they'd explore having Denzel and Marlene being the main characters. They certainly seem to set up a very basic parallel of Denzel & Marlene and Cloud & Aerith. Of course that would mean the game would be set 10 years after AC/C, since both of them (D&M) are quite young.

no.

 

[Smaddy]

no.

I should say that that's not what I want, but it's just kind of presented itself in AC/C a little bit.

I'd be all for a game where it's Avalanche again. But with more involvement from everybody, not just like 2 or 3 of them at a time.

Actually, Red XIII should be the star, if anything. Poor guy had one line in AC/C, and yawned at the end of DOC.

 

[Max Payne]

I should say that that's not what I want, but it's just kind of presented itself in AC/C a little bit.

Nothing in AC implies "OH HEY DENZEL AND MARLENE ARE JUST LIKE CLOUD AND AERIS AND OH THEY'RE GONNA BE FUTURE HEROES AND MAIN CHARACTERS".