The Genesis Sequel
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Makoeyes987
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Masamune said:
Well, by the time that happens, I think an entirely new story and conflict would've emerged that would make Sephiroth returning out of place and inconceivable. I think AC is the true closing of the original story and conflict that was outlined in the original game.
A game that serves as the final installment of the Compilation of FFVII would be different and would have its own unique way of closing the saga.
Well, Kadaj *IS* a larval form of said character...
And he is extremely popular. He has his own fanbase despite being only in AC. He's been showcased a lot too.
The Alex said:
LOL true enough
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=488.msg17188#msg17188 date=1234390577]I don't think Zeromus meant he'd come back as just a weakened puppet that got beaten easily by the two people he was not only impervious to injury from, but was able to knock out with just a single casting of Meteor. His resurrection as a mere puppet for Minus is not the same, especially when he was only brought back for a chapter which was more of a nod to the original game than anything. The main antagonist was The Creator.[/quote]
Who cares? Zeromus hinted that he would come back, and he did. Sephiroth hinted he will come back, but he wont just because of what happened to Zeromus?
That doesn't make sense.
But he came back twice.
Who cares? Zeromus hinted that he would come back, and he did. Sephiroth hinted he will come back, but he wont just because of what happened to Zeromus?
That doesn't make sense.
But he came back twice.
Makoeyes987
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OWA-2 said:
So Zeromus knew he'd be revived as a puppet that would just die before he'd even exact revenge or do anything? Right, that's totally the same context Sephiroth meant in terms of his revival and never being a memory. Context is everything. Comparing it is not the same. And there's still 5 other FF villains who've said the same.
And no, Sephiroth has only come back once post FFVII.
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=488.msg17204#msg17204 date=1234393413]So Zeromus knew he'd be revived as a puppet that would just die before he'd even exact revenge or do anything? Right, that's totally the same context Sephiroth meant in terms of his revival and never being a memory. Context is everything. Comparing it is not the same. And there's still 5 other FF villains who've said the same.[/quote]
And strode78 said that Sephiroth could return in a different form. But you said he couldn't, using Zeromus as an example. The same Zeromus who DID return in a different form(by being a "puppet" of Minus).
And I could be wrong, but IIRC Zeromus was sealed, not dead. And Minus didn't control him, she just freed him from his prision.
But why ignore FFVII? I wont.
Sephiroth was killed in CC/BC, in FFVII, and in AC. That's 3 times Mako, 3 times that he got beaten. And to me, this already show us that he is coming back "again and again".
In my opinion, a villain being defeated 2 times is acceptable. But 3 times?! What is he, a Square-Enix villain or a Nintendo/Capcom one? Come on.
And strode78 said that Sephiroth could return in a different form. But you said he couldn't, using Zeromus as an example. The same Zeromus who DID return in a different form(by being a "puppet" of Minus).
And I could be wrong, but IIRC Zeromus was sealed, not dead. And Minus didn't control him, she just freed him from his prision.
But why ignore FFVII? I wont.
Sephiroth was killed in CC/BC, in FFVII, and in AC. That's 3 times Mako, 3 times that he got beaten. And to me, this already show us that he is coming back "again and again".
In my opinion, a villain being defeated 2 times is acceptable. But 3 times?! What is he, a Square-Enix villain or a Nintendo/Capcom one? Come on.
Makoeyes987
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I used Zeromus and the previous FF villains who said they would come back as an example of how their words foretelling their return for revenge doesn't mean they really will. Zeromus said he would exist as long as evil in the hearts of people existed.
But that's not why he returned, or how he returned. He returned because some puppet with the ability to summon was able to conjure him. And Zeromus returned not of his own free will but because he was summoned by Minus. That is not the same thing at all, and not what Zeromus foretold. And where does it say Zeromus was sealed? He died. He was destroyed at the end of the game and killed.
And I chose to ignore FFVII because this was a discussion of Sephiroth being revived post FFVII and recycled as an antagonist for the story. I never made this about how many times Sephiroth has cheated death. I'm talking about how many times he's been brought back as an antagonist in the Compilation of FFVII post FFVII and after his final defeat in FFVII.
Should they have had Sephiroth stay dead after the Nibelheim incident? His first "death" has no real significance in terms of the argument because it was part of the self contained story of FFVII and served as mere backstory in regards to explaining how he mutated, got stuck in the Northern Crater and why he hated Cloud so much.
But that's not why he returned, or how he returned. He returned because some puppet with the ability to summon was able to conjure him. And Zeromus returned not of his own free will but because he was summoned by Minus. That is not the same thing at all, and not what Zeromus foretold. And where does it say Zeromus was sealed? He died. He was destroyed at the end of the game and killed.
And I chose to ignore FFVII because this was a discussion of Sephiroth being revived post FFVII and recycled as an antagonist for the story. I never made this about how many times Sephiroth has cheated death. I'm talking about how many times he's been brought back as an antagonist in the Compilation of FFVII post FFVII and after his final defeat in FFVII.
Should they have had Sephiroth stay dead after the Nibelheim incident? His first "death" has no real significance in terms of the argument because it was part of the self contained story of FFVII and served as mere backstory in regards to explaining how he mutated, got stuck in the Northern Crater and why he hated Cloud so much.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Exactly, OWA, you can't use Sephiroth coming back after his "death" in the past as evidence that they'll keep reviving him. That previous "death" had already happened before CC and BC were made and doesn't count. If you REALLY wanna nitpick, he didn't come back to life because he had never died that first time. You can bold text "3 times" all you want, but it has almsot no bearing on SE bringing him back. If they had made Crisis Core in 1995 and Sephiroth was killed, and THEN released FF7 and Sephiroth was back, then it would count.
I totally agree with Mako on this one, Advent Children's purpose has always been a chance to see FF7's beloved characters again in a new medium, there is no way they would exclude Sephiroth from that. Sure they could have done just a 'threat' of Sephiroth and a bunch of stupid flashbacks, but I guarantee you the movie would have gotten far more criticism still if Sephiroth didn't come back. Besides, Cloud is leagues above Kadaj.
Contrived or not, the 'Genesis Sequel' has a completely different purpose than AC. Its purpose is to tie up all the new plot elements the Compilation has introduced. Sure, they COULD put Sephiroth in it, they COULD do anything. Kuja could show up, lol. But the final title isn't nearly as fanservice-focused as Advent Children was.
I totally agree with Mako on this one, Advent Children's purpose has always been a chance to see FF7's beloved characters again in a new medium, there is no way they would exclude Sephiroth from that. Sure they could have done just a 'threat' of Sephiroth and a bunch of stupid flashbacks, but I guarantee you the movie would have gotten far more criticism still if Sephiroth didn't come back. Besides, Cloud is leagues above Kadaj.
Contrived or not, the 'Genesis Sequel' has a completely different purpose than AC. Its purpose is to tie up all the new plot elements the Compilation has introduced. Sure, they COULD put Sephiroth in it, they COULD do anything. Kuja could show up, lol. But the final title isn't nearly as fanservice-focused as Advent Children was.
Arianna
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I guess it really comes down to if Sephiroth really died at Nibelheim.
We assume it's death, the characters would call it dead, but he's not totally human - and if Jenova can still be alive within a stratum for around two-thousand years, as well as possibly even when beheaded - then it's a good chance Sephiroth is not dead in the truest sense of the term.
His body may be gone, but like his mother (or should that be mothers?!) Lucrecia, his mind still remains. There's a part of his physical self that will not die.
Whatever that part is, it's very closely linked between body and spirit...
He was stopped several times from killing Cloud, but I think that's the best definition of what happened to him that we can come up with. *shrugs* :-\
As for Kadaj, Yazoo and Loz - I just wonder if they would have been reabsorbed by Sephiroth, or remain their own separate entity in and of themselves?
We assume it's death, the characters would call it dead, but he's not totally human - and if Jenova can still be alive within a stratum for around two-thousand years, as well as possibly even when beheaded - then it's a good chance Sephiroth is not dead in the truest sense of the term.
His body may be gone, but like his mother (or should that be mothers?!) Lucrecia, his mind still remains. There's a part of his physical self that will not die.
Whatever that part is, it's very closely linked between body and spirit...
He was stopped several times from killing Cloud, but I think that's the best definition of what happened to him that we can come up with. *shrugs* :-\
As for Kadaj, Yazoo and Loz - I just wonder if they would have been reabsorbed by Sephiroth, or remain their own separate entity in and of themselves?
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I think just reabsorbed, they reason three were formed at all was because Cloud had beaten Sephiroth's will enough that it lacked the strength to reform himself completely.
First of all, this isn't JUST a game about genesis. This is probably the end of the whole compilation, so they are going to want to harp on the nostalgia. That means rehashing old characters. Sorry, its just true.
Second of all, the original topic was about who would be in conflict with genesis? so if we take for granted that they will be bringing back old characters to cap off the compilation, who else would be in conflict with genesis? this, i think i the strongest point that no one has been able to answer. if genesis is on the "good" side in one way or another, who does he have to fight to redeem himself? if it wasn't someone that he had a deep rooted and established conflict with, then why make the game? And in my mind sephiroth is the only one that fits the bill. Sorry, but its true.
AND was anyone really satisfied with watching sephiroth get beat in a 10 minute sequence? including square? deep down, if sephiroth was to come back wouldn't YOU want to beat him as opposed to a cgi rendering of cloud?
Second of all, the original topic was about who would be in conflict with genesis? so if we take for granted that they will be bringing back old characters to cap off the compilation, who else would be in conflict with genesis? this, i think i the strongest point that no one has been able to answer. if genesis is on the "good" side in one way or another, who does he have to fight to redeem himself? if it wasn't someone that he had a deep rooted and established conflict with, then why make the game? And in my mind sephiroth is the only one that fits the bill. Sorry, but its true.
AND was anyone really satisfied with watching sephiroth get beat in a 10 minute sequence? including square? deep down, if sephiroth was to come back wouldn't YOU want to beat him as opposed to a cgi rendering of cloud?
its not conjecture, well the end was, but the meat of the post wasn't.
The actual point (the only logical, existing character for genesis to square off against is sephiroth, and a new threat wouldn't be nearly as compelling from genesis' perspective), still hasn't been substantially addressed beyond "i don't want it".
The actual point (the only logical, existing character for genesis to square off against is sephiroth, and a new threat wouldn't be nearly as compelling from genesis' perspective), still hasn't been substantially addressed beyond "i don't want it".
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It's not logical for him to square off against a thrice vanquished dead person, and a new threat properly developed would be more than sufficient and compelling than some uninteresting and preposterous confrontation between Genesis and Sephiroth. Which, I'd like to point out, you've given no significant reason to suggest that it has to happen other than your own person desire.
[quote author=strode78 link=topic=488.msg16847#msg16847 date=1234317026]
let me lay this out in logical argument format. objective analysis beyond all of our "wants" for what will happen in the sequel.
contention: sephiroth will return in some form
point 1 - It is in squenix's financial best interests to bring back sephiroth for one final, decisive showdown. As we all know Sephiroth is among the most enduring and iconic videogame characters of all time, and for many a final chapter of the saga would be incomplete without him, as he largely defined the success of the original game.
point 2 - There is absolutely enough wiggle room in the plot to bring him back.
-Do you really think it's beyond square to suggest suggest that sephiroth isn't dead?
-They've brought him back once already, twice if you count the events of ff vii. Though this may make it seem like a rehash, it proves that death is a relative and possibly temporary state especially in the case of sephiroth (being the strongest will in gaia).
-There are still Jenova cells in the world (as proved in DOC). They are not dead and are still an impure force in the lifestream. As we all know Jenova cells will try to reassemble.
-the ultimania guide actually refers to the presence of these cells in DOC as "geostigma" implying that jenova's legacy lives on even though cloud and the children are cured (this IS post advent children).
-AC gives virtually no evidence that sephiroth's consciousness has passed into the lifestream.
again the point of all of these examples are just to show that there IS wiggle room for square.
point 3 - There is a narrative necessity in Genesis' story to come to conflict with Sephiroth.
1- genesis is immediately, in DOC, presented in relation to sephiroth in the G reports. When he showed up the most striking part of him was the 1 white wing on his right shoulder (clearly meant to evoke the image of being an opposite of sephiroth)
2- genesis in CC sets himself in opposition to sephiroth ("the world needs a new hero" etc.) without that being the central conflict, though after DOC we were all waiting to see how their relationship began.
3- at the end of CC Genesis vows to protect to planet, whereas sephiroth vows to destroy it. This is a clear setting up of a conflict of ideologies that is not resolved in the games as they stand.
4- there is simply no character that genesis has as much of a historical and compelling conflict with, which if there is going to be a game about him, is necessary. It may even be reasonable to suggest that square introduced Genesis simply to justify bringing sephiroth back.
Now, of course we'll all have to wait for the game to find out. However, i think if you look all of this over, it is clear that it is possible, or even likely that sephiroth will return in some form in the next and final game. Put aside what you want to happen and look at these points objectively.
[/quote]
nope...no evidence at all...clearly all fanboyism
let me lay this out in logical argument format. objective analysis beyond all of our "wants" for what will happen in the sequel.
contention: sephiroth will return in some form
point 1 - It is in squenix's financial best interests to bring back sephiroth for one final, decisive showdown. As we all know Sephiroth is among the most enduring and iconic videogame characters of all time, and for many a final chapter of the saga would be incomplete without him, as he largely defined the success of the original game.
point 2 - There is absolutely enough wiggle room in the plot to bring him back.
-Do you really think it's beyond square to suggest suggest that sephiroth isn't dead?
-They've brought him back once already, twice if you count the events of ff vii. Though this may make it seem like a rehash, it proves that death is a relative and possibly temporary state especially in the case of sephiroth (being the strongest will in gaia).
-There are still Jenova cells in the world (as proved in DOC). They are not dead and are still an impure force in the lifestream. As we all know Jenova cells will try to reassemble.
-the ultimania guide actually refers to the presence of these cells in DOC as "geostigma" implying that jenova's legacy lives on even though cloud and the children are cured (this IS post advent children).
-AC gives virtually no evidence that sephiroth's consciousness has passed into the lifestream.
again the point of all of these examples are just to show that there IS wiggle room for square.
point 3 - There is a narrative necessity in Genesis' story to come to conflict with Sephiroth.
1- genesis is immediately, in DOC, presented in relation to sephiroth in the G reports. When he showed up the most striking part of him was the 1 white wing on his right shoulder (clearly meant to evoke the image of being an opposite of sephiroth)
2- genesis in CC sets himself in opposition to sephiroth ("the world needs a new hero" etc.) without that being the central conflict, though after DOC we were all waiting to see how their relationship began.
3- at the end of CC Genesis vows to protect to planet, whereas sephiroth vows to destroy it. This is a clear setting up of a conflict of ideologies that is not resolved in the games as they stand.
4- there is simply no character that genesis has as much of a historical and compelling conflict with, which if there is going to be a game about him, is necessary. It may even be reasonable to suggest that square introduced Genesis simply to justify bringing sephiroth back.
Now, of course we'll all have to wait for the game to find out. However, i think if you look all of this over, it is clear that it is possible, or even likely that sephiroth will return in some form in the next and final game. Put aside what you want to happen and look at these points objectively.
[/quote]
nope...no evidence at all...clearly all fanboyism
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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- Smooth Criminal
Most of your evidence is subjective opinion or just plain wrong.
Point 1 is just your opinion. You have no inside knowledge or idea of what S-E's best interest is or what the creator's will conclusively do with the story. And anyone could easily argue it'd be AGAINST their best interests to rehash the same plot again.
Death is not a temporary state, and goes against the entire theme of FFVII. They went with showing death as permanent. Just because Sephiroth broke the cycle doesn't mean he has free reign to do it again and again, especially after having his will smashed.
Jenova cells are inert without Sephiroth's will acting on them. Furthermore Aerith's purifying water destroys them and is in the lifestream. Protecting the planet and curing geostigma.
And no, you're actually wrong. The 10th Anniversary Ultimania only refers to Geostigma appearing in AC. Not DC. It's a continuity error from the director in the game. Geostigma doesn't exist because Sephiroth's malevolent will working from the Lifestream is no longer present post AC.
And AC gives us a lot of evidence Sephiroth is gone. The fact the negative lifestream disappeared along with his remnants shows that his will is gone. The corrupted Lifestream and Geostigma, which all worked due to his will, are no longer present. Meaning his will is no longer at work.
Genesis's story has no necessity at all for Sephiroth. And first off, he has a black wing, not a white wing. Angeal has white wings.
If Sephiroth is no longer a threat to the planet, then that's not even an issue. Furthermore, Genesis has a closer relation to Zack, given it was through Zack he found his redemption and pride as a SOLDIER. Genesis's antagonism towards Sephiroth was due to his jealousy and desire to recreate the conditions of LOVELESS and heal his degradation.
Genesis is beyond jealousy. He has his pride. And he created his re-enactment of LOVELESS and has been cured of his degradation. He has no reason to hate Sephiroth or prove himself against him. His dream came true.
So no, your evidence is not as solid as you think.
Point 1 is just your opinion. You have no inside knowledge or idea of what S-E's best interest is or what the creator's will conclusively do with the story. And anyone could easily argue it'd be AGAINST their best interests to rehash the same plot again.
Death is not a temporary state, and goes against the entire theme of FFVII. They went with showing death as permanent. Just because Sephiroth broke the cycle doesn't mean he has free reign to do it again and again, especially after having his will smashed.
Jenova cells are inert without Sephiroth's will acting on them. Furthermore Aerith's purifying water destroys them and is in the lifestream. Protecting the planet and curing geostigma.
And no, you're actually wrong. The 10th Anniversary Ultimania only refers to Geostigma appearing in AC. Not DC. It's a continuity error from the director in the game. Geostigma doesn't exist because Sephiroth's malevolent will working from the Lifestream is no longer present post AC.
And AC gives us a lot of evidence Sephiroth is gone. The fact the negative lifestream disappeared along with his remnants shows that his will is gone. The corrupted Lifestream and Geostigma, which all worked due to his will, are no longer present. Meaning his will is no longer at work.
Genesis's story has no necessity at all for Sephiroth. And first off, he has a black wing, not a white wing. Angeal has white wings.
If Sephiroth is no longer a threat to the planet, then that's not even an issue. Furthermore, Genesis has a closer relation to Zack, given it was through Zack he found his redemption and pride as a SOLDIER. Genesis's antagonism towards Sephiroth was due to his jealousy and desire to recreate the conditions of LOVELESS and heal his degradation.
Genesis is beyond jealousy. He has his pride. And he created his re-enactment of LOVELESS and has been cured of his degradation. He has no reason to hate Sephiroth or prove himself against him. His dream came true.
So no, your evidence is not as solid as you think.
Cat Rage Room
Great Old One
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I'd also like to add that it's extremely small minded to assume that every large scale threat in the world of FF7 has to come from Jenova, Sephiroth or someone we've already seen. The world of Gaia is a lot more diverse than that, and there's a lot more people, places, and concepts that the FF7 world has yet to explore.
I have a lot of criticisms for some of the stuff that SE has done, but I give them a little more credit than that!
I have a lot of criticisms for some of the stuff that SE has done, but I give them a little more credit than that!
[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=488.msg17250#msg17250 date=1234415751]
Most of your evidence is subjective opinion or just plain wrong.
Point 1 is just your opinion. You have no inside knowledge or idea of what S-E's best interest is or what the creator's will conclusively do with the story. And anyone could easily argue it'd be AGAINST their best interests to rehash the same plot again.
Death is not a temporary state, and goes against the entire theme of FFVII. They went with showing death as permanent. Just because Sephiroth broke the cycle doesn't mean he has free reign to do it again and again, especially after having his will smashed.
Jenova cells are inert without Sephiroth's will acting on them. Furthermore Aerith's purifying water destroys them and is in the lifestream. Protecting the planet and curing geostigma.
And no, you're actually wrong. The 10th Anniversary Ultimania only refers to Geostigma appearing in AC. Not DC. It's a continuity error from the director in the game. Geostigma doesn't exist because Sephiroth's malevolent will working from the Lifestream is no longer present post AC.
And AC gives us a lot of evidence Sephiroth is gone. The fact the negative lifestream disappeared along with his remnants shows that his will is gone. The corrupted Lifestream and Geostigma, which all worked due to his will, are no longer present. Meaning his will is no longer at work.
Genesis's story has no necessity at all for Sephiroth. And first off, he has a black wing, not a white wing. Angeal has white wings.
If Sephiroth is no longer a threat to the planet, then that's not even an issue. Furthermore, Genesis has a closer relation to Zack, given it was through Zack he found his redemption and pride as a SOLDIER. Genesis's antagonism towards Sephiroth was due to his jealousy and desire to recreate the conditions of LOVELESS and heal his degradation.
Genesis is beyond jealousy. He has his pride. And he created his re-enactment of LOVELESS and has been cured of his degradation. He has no reason to hate Sephiroth or prove himself against him. His dream came true.
So no, your evidence is not as solid as you think.
[/quote]
it's not my opinion that it's in square's best interests to revive sephiroth.
It IS reasonable however that it's in square's FINANCIAL best interests to revive sephiroth. FF VII-2 will appeal to a wider audience than the compilation fans. They will play the game based on nostalgia alone. At least 1/2 of the compilation fans are sephiroth fanboys, and the compilation fans will probably make up less than half the buyers. It's simple supply and demand and based in real-world marketing, NOT opinion. I've already stated that i don't want sephiroth back, this is just evidence for what i believe will happen.
Death may not be temporary, but it certainly has a very loose application to the world of ff7. sephiroth broke the cycle twice. aerith keeps showing up (i know shes not physically alive, but she can exert her will and is a thinking being.) Zack showed up in advent children. (same dislcaimer). lucrecia and hojo both experienced a form of death but remained thinking beings etc etc.
advent children shows aerith healing the children and cloud, and sephiroth retreating after being hit real hard by cloud. sign of sephiroth's death? debatable at best. we saw sephiroth exploade in a ball of light in ff vii which would be more indicative of his death than the ending of AC wouldn't it?
"Geostigma doesn't exist because Sephiroth's malevolent will working from the Lifestream is no longer present post AC."
circular logic.
sephiroth doesn't exist because geostigma doesn't exist
geostigma doesn't exist because sephiroth doesn't exist
"Genesis has a closer relation to Zack, given it was through Zack he found his redemption and pride as a SOLDIER."
given the context of what you're responding to, it seems that you're posing a zack/genesis conflict in the next one... zack a bad guy? that'd be fun.
"Genesis is beyond jealousy. He has his pride."
...and his vow to protect the planet from those who would to destroy it. im not suggesting that the game will be about jealousy, we all know they're big boys now. So tell me, who else wants to destroy the planet?
and talking from literary terms, you don't introduce a doppelganger (sp?) (save your flames its a metaphor) and not have them fight. Genesis is sephiroth's shadow from a narrative perspective. they have to fight. (or fuse? hmm...)
EDIT: aerith's great gospel actually heals the people of edge... do you think geostigma only exited in edge? if great gospel rained down on the whole world, don't you think thst would be epic enough to show on screen?
Most of your evidence is subjective opinion or just plain wrong.
Point 1 is just your opinion. You have no inside knowledge or idea of what S-E's best interest is or what the creator's will conclusively do with the story. And anyone could easily argue it'd be AGAINST their best interests to rehash the same plot again.
Death is not a temporary state, and goes against the entire theme of FFVII. They went with showing death as permanent. Just because Sephiroth broke the cycle doesn't mean he has free reign to do it again and again, especially after having his will smashed.
Jenova cells are inert without Sephiroth's will acting on them. Furthermore Aerith's purifying water destroys them and is in the lifestream. Protecting the planet and curing geostigma.
And no, you're actually wrong. The 10th Anniversary Ultimania only refers to Geostigma appearing in AC. Not DC. It's a continuity error from the director in the game. Geostigma doesn't exist because Sephiroth's malevolent will working from the Lifestream is no longer present post AC.
And AC gives us a lot of evidence Sephiroth is gone. The fact the negative lifestream disappeared along with his remnants shows that his will is gone. The corrupted Lifestream and Geostigma, which all worked due to his will, are no longer present. Meaning his will is no longer at work.
Genesis's story has no necessity at all for Sephiroth. And first off, he has a black wing, not a white wing. Angeal has white wings.
If Sephiroth is no longer a threat to the planet, then that's not even an issue. Furthermore, Genesis has a closer relation to Zack, given it was through Zack he found his redemption and pride as a SOLDIER. Genesis's antagonism towards Sephiroth was due to his jealousy and desire to recreate the conditions of LOVELESS and heal his degradation.
Genesis is beyond jealousy. He has his pride. And he created his re-enactment of LOVELESS and has been cured of his degradation. He has no reason to hate Sephiroth or prove himself against him. His dream came true.
So no, your evidence is not as solid as you think.
[/quote]
it's not my opinion that it's in square's best interests to revive sephiroth.
It IS reasonable however that it's in square's FINANCIAL best interests to revive sephiroth. FF VII-2 will appeal to a wider audience than the compilation fans. They will play the game based on nostalgia alone. At least 1/2 of the compilation fans are sephiroth fanboys, and the compilation fans will probably make up less than half the buyers. It's simple supply and demand and based in real-world marketing, NOT opinion. I've already stated that i don't want sephiroth back, this is just evidence for what i believe will happen.
Death may not be temporary, but it certainly has a very loose application to the world of ff7. sephiroth broke the cycle twice. aerith keeps showing up (i know shes not physically alive, but she can exert her will and is a thinking being.) Zack showed up in advent children. (same dislcaimer). lucrecia and hojo both experienced a form of death but remained thinking beings etc etc.
advent children shows aerith healing the children and cloud, and sephiroth retreating after being hit real hard by cloud. sign of sephiroth's death? debatable at best. we saw sephiroth exploade in a ball of light in ff vii which would be more indicative of his death than the ending of AC wouldn't it?
"Geostigma doesn't exist because Sephiroth's malevolent will working from the Lifestream is no longer present post AC."
circular logic.
sephiroth doesn't exist because geostigma doesn't exist
geostigma doesn't exist because sephiroth doesn't exist
"Genesis has a closer relation to Zack, given it was through Zack he found his redemption and pride as a SOLDIER."
given the context of what you're responding to, it seems that you're posing a zack/genesis conflict in the next one... zack a bad guy? that'd be fun.
"Genesis is beyond jealousy. He has his pride."
...and his vow to protect the planet from those who would to destroy it. im not suggesting that the game will be about jealousy, we all know they're big boys now. So tell me, who else wants to destroy the planet?
and talking from literary terms, you don't introduce a doppelganger (sp?) (save your flames its a metaphor) and not have them fight. Genesis is sephiroth's shadow from a narrative perspective. they have to fight. (or fuse? hmm...)
EDIT: aerith's great gospel actually heals the people of edge... do you think geostigma only exited in edge? if great gospel rained down on the whole world, don't you think thst would be epic enough to show on screen?
Max Payne
Banned
- AKA
- Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Your argument is invalid thanks to it simply being opinion. You've nothing to support your argument other than your opinion.
Sephiroth has no logical avenue for resurrection, there's no reason to assume SE is going to bring him back.
He's dead.
Sephiroth has no logical avenue for resurrection, there's no reason to assume SE is going to bring him back.
He's dead.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Yes it is your opinion. You have no objective, tangible fact that Square's financial future and profits lie entirely on reviving Sephiroth. If you do, please back it up and post it.
Aerith only shows up in Cloud's mind. He only sees her and he stops seeing her by the end of AC. He only sees her because of his guilt and sadness. Same for Zack. They don't come back to life. They're still *dead*.
And Lucrecia never died. And Hojo was just a digital copy.
And it's not circular logic. Geostigma was a product of Sephiroth's will and existence causing Jenova cells to attack the body and taint their spirit energy. Due to Cloud killing him and destroying his will, the Jenova cells have no way of being malignant and harming people, thus Geostigma is no longer in existence due to Sephiroth.
Look at the 10th Anniversary entry for Geostigma. It only appears in AC. It's not listed as being shown in DC.
http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/220/final-fantasy-vii-series-terms-and-definitions/#more-220
Geostigma doesn't exist post AC. Because Sephiroth no longer exists.
And I'm *not* postulating a Zack/Genesis conflict. I'm pointing out that Genesis's main conflict wasn't with Sephiroth. It was with Zack. You're pushing Genesis and Sephiroth together when really, it was Zack that he had the most conflict and antagonism towards.
And knowing FFVII, there are plenty of threats that could appear that would threaten the world. You're already in a box and can't see outside of Sephiroth. So trying to explain the fact they could MAKE UP a new threat is pretty useless. That's the whole point of writing. Writing NEW material, not just looking backwards and doing the same thing.
Aerith's rain didn't wash over the world, but Geostigma no longer exists post AC. And anyone who touches her healing water in the church would be cured. Furthermore, if they joined the Lifestream, their spirits would be cleaned of the Jenova stigma as well.
Aerith only shows up in Cloud's mind. He only sees her and he stops seeing her by the end of AC. He only sees her because of his guilt and sadness. Same for Zack. They don't come back to life. They're still *dead*.
And Lucrecia never died. And Hojo was just a digital copy.
And it's not circular logic. Geostigma was a product of Sephiroth's will and existence causing Jenova cells to attack the body and taint their spirit energy. Due to Cloud killing him and destroying his will, the Jenova cells have no way of being malignant and harming people, thus Geostigma is no longer in existence due to Sephiroth.
Look at the 10th Anniversary entry for Geostigma. It only appears in AC. It's not listed as being shown in DC.
http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/220/final-fantasy-vii-series-terms-and-definitions/#more-220
Geostigma doesn't exist post AC. Because Sephiroth no longer exists.
And I'm *not* postulating a Zack/Genesis conflict. I'm pointing out that Genesis's main conflict wasn't with Sephiroth. It was with Zack. You're pushing Genesis and Sephiroth together when really, it was Zack that he had the most conflict and antagonism towards.
And knowing FFVII, there are plenty of threats that could appear that would threaten the world. You're already in a box and can't see outside of Sephiroth. So trying to explain the fact they could MAKE UP a new threat is pretty useless. That's the whole point of writing. Writing NEW material, not just looking backwards and doing the same thing.
Aerith's rain didn't wash over the world, but Geostigma no longer exists post AC. And anyone who touches her healing water in the church would be cured. Furthermore, if they joined the Lifestream, their spirits would be cleaned of the Jenova stigma as well.
there was no logical way for him to come back after ff vii either.
again the argument is based on the principles of marketing, not an opinion. just 'cause someone says something that you don't agree with doesn't make it an opinion.
an opinion would be i think they should/shouldn't bring him back. i'm saying, based of the target audience of ff vii-2
(nostalgic video-gamers, fans of just the original AND compilation fans, half of which are sephiroth fanboys) it is reasonable to state that it is in thier financial best interests. NOT and opinion. Its an ARGUMENT. There is not subjective judgement of this arguement present.
EDIT: i'm not suggesting that square's whole financial future hinges on it, i'm saying that if they want to reach a larger audience, that's the road they'll take.
again the argument is based on the principles of marketing, not an opinion. just 'cause someone says something that you don't agree with doesn't make it an opinion.
an opinion would be i think they should/shouldn't bring him back. i'm saying, based of the target audience of ff vii-2
(nostalgic video-gamers, fans of just the original AND compilation fans, half of which are sephiroth fanboys) it is reasonable to state that it is in thier financial best interests. NOT and opinion. Its an ARGUMENT. There is not subjective judgement of this arguement present.
EDIT: i'm not suggesting that square's whole financial future hinges on it, i'm saying that if they want to reach a larger audience, that's the road they'll take.