The GREATEST difference between original and remake

AKA
Mr. Ite
#26
XII was a breath of fresh air after X, the voice acting — including Vaan — was ace... but I don’t remember making a single dialogue decision other than accepting a side quest. I watched FFXIII on YouTube because YOU MIGHT AS WELL, and I’ll reserve judgement on FFXV until I play, because it looks fun.

As an award winning actor, I think the uniqueness of the audience’s participation in a story is just as effective as having a top notch film cast and crew. Both are synthetic. I prefer books or theatre above all, and I agree with OP that it’s a damn shame FFs are no longer like books. I think I’ve disagreed on lots of other things but I’m tired af and really this trend was 20 years in the making, we couldn’t stop it, so this thread is in essence a whining corner.

I also think my experience in making art gives me zero fucking qualifications for judging another artist, popular trend, genre, or medium. If it’s not to my taste, that’s fine. I’m not objectively right.
 
#27
Just a drop in the fountain on "Video Games vs. Film" in regards to drama/deep storytelling tangent:
VGs are steadily catching up with film, but are not quite there yet. I have no doubt that they will eventually be on more-or-less equal footing (with critics on either sides digging their heels in that one has the edge), but so far, the progression is pretty much natural. Basically, just as film (and later television) initially leaned more on the spectacle of "MOVINNN' PICT-CHASSSS YA'LL!", and then expanded in dramatic complexity to eventually compare to novels over the decades, so has the world of video games evolved from paper-thin but completely functional plotting to structures and approach that compare to the world of film. To oversimplify it, the earliest games didn't bother...there are "Space Invaders", and you gotta blast 'em. Then you have mid-periods where games were more or less about on the level of summer blockbuster action flicks--there were clear characters, motivations, progression...but nothing nobody was going to be picking apart, analyzing, or digging for deep symbolism in the morning after over breakfast. Games like VII were really exceptions to the rule in the time periods they emerged in, with a few other big shots, a large majority of still 'non' dramatic games, and the average game trying its hand at plot landing somewhere on the level of "Resident Evil". You can also see that the games that did manage to pull off genuinely deep emotions begin to use literally cinematic elements, thus the blending of powerful 'cutscene' sequences into the main game (but remember how sparingly, and white-knuckle excitingly, those were used at the time?). I'm not sure where exactly to place us on the scale now, metaphorically. We've certainly advanced leaps and bounds in certain ways, others could make the argument that in often becoming less directly interactive, games have failed to use their specific medium to full dramatic potential, and that something like "Deus Ex" still represents a high-point in that regard. Sorry, I'm rambling. I didn't plot this post out in advance, haha. But in any case, my 2 (or 1) cents is that to deny the possibility of video games in this particular area is foolish and short-sighted, but to accept as a given that they can (currently) accomplish it just as well or better than cinema feels inaccurate as well.
 

looneymoon

hedgehog pandacat
AKA
Rishi
#29
I'm a little surprised by the amount of conflation with other forms of storytelling and video games here? I think gaming has distinguished itself as a medium so as to warrant they be considered on the merits of what makes that experience unique. Journey (2012) is a cliche example, but that's a game that often comes to mind that IMO would be not have the same impact if presented in any other way.

In terms of the Final Fantasy series - the elimination of the amount of reading is definitely something I've thought a lot about but never really discussed. When I was younger, I think these games appealed to me more because I was interested in books and mythology and stuff. I definitely agree that it is a shame. I guess the reason I don't consider it such a huge loss is because there are plenty of indie developers that are making these sorts of games? It's still an option out there, so I don't care as much that Final Fantasy went in a different direction.
 
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AKA
The Engineer
#30
It also varies a lot depending on what modern FF game you are playing. FFXIV is a completely different beast compared to FFXV and even stuff like FFXIII and not just because their producers have very different mindsets.

FFXIV feels a lot more like the older FF games because there is so much text in it. Only the main quest is voiced and not all the cut-scenes are voiced. In fact, one of the complaints people who are only into game-play have about FFXIV is that you have no idea what is happening if you skip all the read-only dialogue (which there is a ton of) while trying to get to the gameplay part of it. The flip-side is that the people who love RP, world-building, lore and having a quality story have a field day with it.

Oh, and by lots of text, I don't mean how FFXIII has lots of text in the datalouge. I mean lots of text as in, the characters having discussions about world building and lore concepts so that you actually know what's going on without having to look it up elsewhere.
 
AKA
The Engineer
#32
There's a Free Trial of it that goes up to Lvl 30 if you want to give it a try...

I'll just put it this way, the first major non-game media that was made for FFXIV was Encyclopedia Eorzea, a lore book written from the perspective of an in-universe scholar. It's pretty much the Role-Playing Book of FFXIV. A good portion of the information in the book never made it into the game because there's been no reason for the game to go into that kind of scholarly detail about things and yet the devs came up with it anyway. The Lore Team likes their consistency.

You'd probably be interested in this panel one of the Main Scenario writers and one of the Localization team leads did at PAX East 2018. It goes into a lot of how the FFXIV team writes and translates the FFXIV story.
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
#34
Yeah, I'm afraid to say this but while the vanilla game is already quite good (for an MMO), the late game, patch content, and both expansions make it justifiably one of the best MMO's out there.

Off course the flipside is that a lot of these dialogs / story bits get tedious as fuck, and if you dislike Alphinaud from the start, hooo boy.
 
AKA
The Engineer
#35
To be fair, Alphianud improves a lot from early ARR to late HW. It's almost like character development is thing that happens. I blame Alphinaud's tediousness on being considered a child genius from a society that revolves around learning for the sake of learning and then not doing much with it. Besides staying out of the conflicts everyone else is going though... fortunately, one thing FFXIV is not short on is a very large cast of characters. The odds of you finding some character you're interested in is pretty good.

Also, considering the shitstorm 1.0 was, 2.0's story is fantastic. Sure it's on the basic side, but a lot of the ideas it introduced are still very relevant to the story currently being told and it is still a gold-mine when going over how certain things in the world work. It's not like it's been rendered irrelevant or anything... it's just that the storytelling has improved a lot since then.
 

BforB

Too Angry™
AKA
B
#36
^FFXIV just sounds more and more appealing every time I hear you guys talk about it.
Ite I'm a recent convert currently playing the Free Trial and I am well pleased and impressed with this game. There are a lot of bits and bobs to it and it can be a little overwhelming but you get plenty of time in the Free Trial to get adjusted and I'm really, really enjoying myself. I already decided quite early on to buy the game after my trial is over because I like it so much.
 

Cthulhu

Administrator
AKA
Yop
#37
Character development aside, I still don't like Alphinaud :monster:

Okay maybe a bit less ad hominem, I don't like how
the story keeps meandering about the same main characters and organization. I wouldn't mind a next expansion to throw things around, but then otoh, I'm fairly sure where the story is going to go and IIRC they said at one point they had the next couple expansions already plotted out story-wise.
 

sy2pie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
sy2pie
#39
It isn't the combat. No. Its the storytelling.

I know I'm not speaking for everyone here...but why did we LOVE FF 7/8/9 or the titles before these? I know some of you may disagree...but why did many of us begin to lose our love for the Final Fantasy's from 10 onward? The switch to Enix brought upon a lot of things that I have resented....but the biggest of all is the absence of dialogue appearing in text on screen.

Watching some of the clips that have been posted in other threads...it reminded me about what was so special about Final Fantasy. You were able to literally attach your own emotion, your own backstory, your own thoughts, feelings, and interpretations to the characters personality, etc. Not only could you identify with the character more (e.g. choosing answers to questions that reflect your own reactions to such situations) but you were able to pace it as you felt appropriate. The BEAUTIFUL music would play...and you would be the Director. You had the control. You could control the "BEATS" as we call it in film. You chose when the next person would speak. Every scene was being orchestrated by you. You were the puppet master in a sense.

I was appalled by FF10. Forcing us to listen to voices for the first time. I'll never forget it. It totally destroyed what made games so special in comparison to movies/TV, etc. I imagine people felt the same way when movies/games, etc. destroyed the magic of the written word and reading a book...

But with my personal feelings being said...agree to disagree if you will about how much it matters...this will undoubtedly though COMPLETELY CHANGE the experience of the FF7 remake. It is the single biggest factor as far as I'm concerned. Every experience, every scene we remember, every element of the story will be subject to someone elses interpretation. We no longer have control. We no longer can have that personal connection.

Such SUBTLE things...like right before the death of Aeris...did anyone else make Cloud jerk the handle of the sword over and over to make it more dramatic? You had in a way...this sense of creative control over the story.

By being able to answer questions in a way you saw fit...you were able to more strongly identify with the characters. You could make Cloud more insecure or more confident. You could make scenes more humorous or more serious. And often times your choices would surprise you and be wonderful outcomes. That was the MAGIC.

The remake will lose all of this.

If you think this isn't a big deal...just think about the times where you got lost in the music and in the moment. Where you imagined you were in that scene with those characters...where you held off on hitting the "next" button because you wanted to let it soak in. You'll never get that but with the original.

Anybody have any thoughts? This will completely reshape every scene we cherish from the original.
I couldn't agree with you more.

I felt FF8 was a small step-down. The game was fun to play and brilliant in many ways but the storyline was all over the place and completely unbelievable. This blew the illusion for me. I really struggled to connect to the characters because of this which is one of FF7 strongest selling points.

FF9 was a great game in its own right too. But 10 was certainly the nosedive for me. The game was a total mess.
 

Kain424

Pro Adventurer
#40
I think, inevitably, there will be differences. Whether it's a larger issue like the actual change in the story, or something minor like voice acting. But through something as easy to implement as a dialog wheel and our familiar team involved in the creation, this could actually turn out to be a very rewarding experience for longtime fans of the original.

We will finally have the lush environments previously only hinted at or left to our imaginations. Characters will have facial expressions and the music employed will be supported by today's best equipment. And if I'm understanding the translations in the interviews correctly, the story will be even more fleshed out.

Much time has passed, and videogame storytelling has only improved over the intervening years. I've always felt Final Fantasy VII to be a benchmark for a kind of storytelling only videogames can provide. The way they tease us before letting us out into the world outside Midgar is a great example of this (I went into this a bit in a video I made last year, if you are curious as to what I mean).

But now that more AAA games are using this kind of meta-storytelling for games (i.e. The Last of Us and Uncharted 4), we can likely expect to experience plot beats and storylines in a whole new way.
 

T@ctic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Orah, Iju
#41
There's a Free Trial of it that goes up to Lvl 30 if you want to give it a try...

I'll just put it this way, the first major non-game media that was made for FFXIV was Encyclopedia Eorzea, a lore book written from the perspective of an in-universe scholar. It's pretty much the Role-Playing Book of FFXIV. A good portion of the information in the book never made it into the game because there's been no reason for the game to go into that kind of scholarly detail about things and yet the devs came up with it anyway. The Lore Team likes their consistency.
sorry to butt in here like this but it's free up to lvl 35 i believe. at least that's what i last read.
 
#42
"Much time has passed, and videogame storytelling has only improved over the intervening years."

This may be true generally, but is it true of SE, or at least of FF? FFXII's storytelling was okay, but the story itself was pretty insubstantial, compared to FFVII; FFXV has a cracking story, but the game does a very poor job of telling it. I can't speak to FFXIII.
 

Roger

Gentleman Adventurer
AKA
Minato
#43
I can. FFXIII method of storytelling was very limited. Datalogs and cutscenes were the only tools available.
 

Kain424

Pro Adventurer
#47
XII's story was fairly well told, it just wasn't all that compelling. I've heard Basch was originally going to be the lead, and that sounds like a more interesting variation.

XV's story has some narratively thin places, but is ultimately another well told story. The way it gets you attached to only a few characters only to tear them away from you effects the player in fairly brilliant fashion. Now, I haven't played the game since its initial release, so I can't speak to the implementation of the DLC and changed chapter 13, but I liked it back then. I would consider it another example of the way modern games are telling great stories.
 

Kain424

Pro Adventurer
#49
I haven't experienced it myself, as I said, but I've heard you can skip Noctis's part altogether. But if you don't it's still much easier, with his magic getting an overhaul and the space he has to travel much easier to navigate. I'm sure there was something else, but I'll try it out eventually and see for myself.
 
#50
I didn't find it difficult, and I'm not a particularly skilful gamer, and I wasn't over-levelled. FFXV is a game that a complete noob can easily succeed at.

To explain how much of a noob I am (noob by nature if not in terms of playing hours), I though I'd set the thing to easy mode, and when Carbuncle never showed up I though, Eh, I guess that's just a glitch. I didn't figure out I wasn't in easy mode until after I defeated Ravus.
 
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