The Love Triangle Debate: Another Turn in the Cycle

[Jason Tandro]

^ Reply #1000.

We're breaking all kinds of Nice Round Number barriers today!

Uh... something on topic, something on topic...

Lord Godo and Don Corneo OTP!!!


...

Sorry, I panicked.

...

clearly it's Reno and Cid.

 

[Splintered]

Sorry, as far as I know the only official source that explicitly acknowledges a romantic connection between Cloud and Aerith is CoLW. Beyond that everything else I'm aware of is subtext.

Yeah this is the one.

Hilariously, it's Aerith calling Cloud a "koibito."

Koibito is said to be explicitly to be romantic "lover" that usually necessities two way attraction. It's ironic because Tifa is said to be a koibito (along with a mother and an ally) and it's obvious who she is a koitbito of. But back then there was a huge stink about how obviously kobitio wasn't romantic, how the word was split, and a whole bunch of other nonsense.

 

[Starling]

Is there a chance she'd be referring to Cloud being Tifa's beloved?

Whether or not Cloud reciprocated, there's a decent chance Aerith at least tried to start a relationship with him. I got the impression the resemblance to Zack may have caused her to try to get that kind of relationship with Cloud, before she realized that as different people, it wouldn't be fair to Cloud to basically have him be her replacement goldfish for Zack. At least, that's how I interpreted what she said in Midgar and the gondola. At that point, she may have settled for friendship, which as I've said before, isn't any less meaningful.

We know from AC that she found Zack again after her death so there's a good chance they rekindled their relationship. They have all the time in the world to be together after all.

 

[Tetsujin]

Is there a chance she'd be referring to Cloud being Tifa's beloved?

She is definitely referring to him as her (Aerith's) beloved.

 

[Splintered]

Is there a chance she'd be referring to Cloud being Tifa's beloved?

In the novels, no, she calls Cloud her lover. And Tifa is a lover [of Cloud]. I guess Cloud's both of their lovers. Good for Cloud.

There is an argument that it's written strictly from her perspective so she can get shit wrong, although that boils down into figuring out author's intent.

Honestly, I do think Cloud could have fallen for her, but we seen pretty much every second of their interaction, at no point was there time for them to start a romantic relationship, and in the novels it didn't seem like she was contacting him at all. There was absolutely no time for them to be lovers, although they could have loved each other. I don't know if koibito necessitates a relationship.

I got the impression the resemblance to Zack may have caused her to try to get that kind of relationship with Cloud, before she realized that as different people,

I think the Ulti partly confirms this; she did become initially attracted to him because of Zack but she did realize he was Cloud and fell in love with him for him during the travels.

The problem was that Cloud didn't regain his true self until post Aerith's death, starting a relationship before that was pretty impossible. But it still shows that Cloud hold a pretty intense feeling for Aerith even after he regained his true self, so he wasn't completely not-Cloud.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

I ate my post

No, that doesn't make any sense Starling.

"Cloud was her friend, her lover, a symbol of what was important to her, someone to protect"

It's not about Zack either. If so it would have probably written of Zack directly like Maiden of the Planet did. Case of Lifestream White doesn't really mention Zack at all and the original Advent Children had a Cloud and Aerith music video after that (vestiges of Aerith but still)

I disagree, as the Cait Sith prediction scene (Aerith asking on Aerith and Cloud compatibility, and being happy, saying to tell her, even when Cait Sith says poor Tifa), and the "I'll come back when it's all over" scenes are after the gondola scene She was still interested in Cloud, she wanted to meet the real Cloud properly, it was the real Cloud not Zack she was interested in (not saying she didn't care about Zack at all/in general here, but feelings for Cloud were genuine as well), she was looking forward to the future, she was looking forward to seeing what the future would bring. That's what makes it so tragic.

Edit - Ninjad by Splint (and Tets, apparently, whelp I'm slow)

 

[Splintered]

Edit - Ninjad by Splint

And I was ninjad by Tetsujin. Ninjas everywhere in this damn thread.

 

[Dashell]

Sorry, as far as I know the only official source that explicitly acknowledges a romantic connection between Cloud and Aerith is CoLW. Beyond that everything else I'm aware of is subtext.

Well it was officially translated into French and German for those who speak those languages


and oh my god are we really doing koibito again?
I don't even know how to deal with this

 

[GiddyUnicorn]

Well from my perspective, we're going back to everything we've talked about for the last decade or two. Forgive me, but everything is old news that's been rehashed over and over again to me cept about the "official" translation clarifying Aerith and Cloud's relationship. I was looking for a link in the CXA forum about that one a few months back but couldn't find it and this topic was dead for a year till now so I figure I'll try my luck.

Well it was officially translated into French and German for those who speak those languages

Got a link for that?

Anyways, just so we're clear here, there are now 3 versions of koibito that fits everyone's perspective/views/beliefs?

*One that supports Cloud and Aerith
* One that's an official translation
* One that supports Cloud and Tifa

 

[Dashell]

Well from my perspective, we're going back to everything we've talked about for the last decade or two. Forgive me, but everything is old news that's been rehashed over and over again to me cept about the "official" translation clarifying Aerith and Cloud's relationship. I was looking for a link in the CXA forum about that one a few months back but couldn't find it and this topic was dead for a year till now so I figure I'll try my luck.

Yeah it's all old news but it doesn't seem like anyone is taking this seriously. A bunch of new posts were just people facepalming over this topic being revived

As for your translation, I'm not sure what official translation you're referring to here actually. What did it say?

and no I don't have a link to those versions, honestly, I wouldn't know where to look. But I do know they were translated. Dunno why we English speaking folk don't get a translation

 

[GiddyUnicorn]

Well, I just asked a question, didn't think it'll turn in to something serious. Was just wondering cus I heard of Cloud and Aerith being confirmed officially....Was jus curious.

and no I don't have a link to those versions, honestly, I wouldn't know where to look. But I do know they were translated. Dunno why we English speaking folk don't get a translation

Always been an issue for me from the start.

 

[Dashell]

Well, I just asked at question didn't think it'll turn in to something serious. Was just wondering cus I heard of Cloud and Aerith being confirmed officially....Was jus curious.

Well as far as I know, there's no official translation like that from anything. But someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Strangelove]

i started learning french so someone should scan the french book so i can look at it and go 'i can't read this shit'

Koibito is said to be explicitly to be romantic "lover" that usually necessities two way attraction. It's ironic because Tifa is said to be a koibito (along with a mother and an ally) and it's obvious who she is a koitbito of. But back then there was a huge stink about how obviously kobitio wasn't romantic, how the word was split, and a whole bunch of other nonsense.

i was finally able to see that word without fits of nerdy rage because i had basically forgotten about this and now i can't again

 

[Ⓐaron]

everything was beautiful and nothing hurt, and then you guys reminded me of koispacebito. the ltd is nothing but a bottomless pit of despair

 

[GiddyUnicorn]

LoL There was a time people love that word. Guess it's taboo in here, alright just looking for some infos, if anyone has it, feel free to pm me.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

i started learning french so someone should scan the french book so i can look at it and go 'i can't read this shit'

I had some pictures from it, but they're probably on my computer that doesn't work. I'll see if I saved them to GMail or something.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I couldn't find them, but I remembered where I got them. They were still there:

http://cloudxaerith.tumblr.com/post/82187892721/today-i-get-my-copy-of-on-the-way-to-the-smile

 

[Strangelove]

french punctuation is some crazy shit and i understand like less than 10% of that

but now i know 'je ne suis pas d'accord' (which means 'je suis d'accord' is the opposite i guess) so i'm happy for today

 

[Dashell]

i started learning french so someone should scan the french book so i can look at it and go 'i can't read this shit'


i was finally able to see that word without fits of nerdy rage because i had basically forgotten about this and now i can't again

To this day and until the day I die, I will remain 100% convinced that line in CoLW was only written to troll the crap out of the entire fandom

 

[Channy]

You came back just for that?

 

[Starling]

In the novels, no, she calls Cloud her lover. And Tifa is a lover [of Cloud]. I guess Cloud's both of their lovers. Good for Cloud.

There is an argument that it's written strictly from her perspective so she can get shit wrong, although that boils down into figuring out author's intent.

Honestly, I do think Cloud could have fallen for her, but we seen pretty much every second of their interaction, at no point was there time for them to start a romantic relationship, and in the novels it didn't seem like she was contacting him at all. There was absolutely no time for them to be lovers, although they could have loved each other. I don't know if koibito necessitates a relationship.

I think the Ulti partly confirms this; she did become initially attracted to him because of Zack but she did realize he was Cloud and fell in love with him for him during the travels.

The problem was that Cloud didn't regain his true self until post Aerith's death, starting a relationship before that was pretty impossible. But it still shows that Cloud hold a pretty intense feeling for Aerith even after he regained his true self, so he wasn't completely not-Cloud.

I guess the easiest way to rationalize that barring some error on the part of the author is that Cloud, Tifa and Aerith may have ended up in a threesome if Aerith was still around. There really isn't enough time in the OG for there to have been a proper romantic relationship, especially with Cloud's issues in the way. Even Tifa and Cloud's relationship only really moved into romance after Aerith's death, when they got resolved.

Both Tifa and Aerith expressed romantic interest in Cloud but it's hard to say for sure whether or not he had romantic feelings for Aerith. For all we know he had feelings for both but couldn't quite decide which to act on. Like I said, his feelings were probably pretty muddled until later on though.

In any case, I doubt Aerith would try to have a romantic relationship with Cloud from beyond the grave, as she'd likely be aware of how unhealthy that would be. Even in a world where you can talk with dead people, you still have to let them go.

I ate my post

No, that doesn't make any sense Starling.

"Cloud was her friend, her lover, a symbol of what was important to her, someone to protect"

Something strikes me as off about that sentence, though I'm not sure if it's just because it's a translation.

It's not about Zack either. If so it would have probably written of Zack directly like Maiden of the Planet did. Case of Lifestream White doesn't really mention Zack at all and the original Advent Children had a Cloud and Aerith music video after that (vestiges of Aerith but still)

What? I've only seen ACC so this is the first I've heard of that. It seems if they removed it from the later version, they must've decided it wasn't fitting to use anymore. Maiden isn't considered canon anymore so it's not really as relevant as what is, though it seems to have had some neat stuff nonetheless. I think it's significant that they decided to include Zack alongside Aerith at the end of ACC. It's also worth noting that ACC basically retcons AC, being an improved version of the same movie. Case of Lifestream White is about Aerith's perspective of what Sephiroth is doing in preparation for ACC, so it makes sense that Zack wouldn't show up in it.

I disagree, as the Cait Sith prediction scene (Aerith asking on Aerith and Cloud compatibility, and being happy, saying to tell her, even when Cait Sith says poor Tifa), and the "I'll come back when it's all over" scenes are after the gondola scene She was still interested in Cloud, she wanted to meet the real Cloud properly, it was the real Cloud not Zack she was interested in (not saying she didn't care about Zack at all/in general here, but feelings for Cloud were genuine as well), she was looking forward to the future, she was looking forward to seeing what the future would bring. That's what makes it so tragic.

Edit - Ninjad by Splint (and Tets, apparently, whelp I'm slow)

You make a good point with the temple of the ancients scene, though it also suggests there wasn't anything definitive about their relationship yet. They act as though both Aerith and Tifa have a chance at being with Cloud, despite apparently considering a piece of paper as good relationship advice.

The I'll come back when this is all over scene strikes me as more platonic than romantic, to be honest. After all, they don't really need to be in a relationship for Aerith to want to reassure Cloud about what just happened.

 

[Dashell]

You came back just for that?

who are you talking to?

Personally I don't see it being a big deal to say Cloud loved both women. As for CoLW, I mean maybe it wasn't a big deal but Cloud DID agree to go on one date with Aerith. To me that says he was at least interested. Maybe to Aerith that meant they were in a relationship... I mean for some people yeah dating means that

Just my thoughts on that

 

[Channy]

To you. But I hadn't seen the two posts you made earlier in the day prior to making that. Weird loading in the page that it skipped those new posts.

I definitely agree and think it's fair to say Cloud loved both women... Both women obviously loved him, so why not? Why does it have to be so difficult?

Also: Wait a flippin minute... This book has been translated in French and German but NOT English? Wtf?

 

[GiddyUnicorn]

Not many books were officially translated into english other than the Reunion files. This is why you have different variations from different fan translations.

 

[Dashell]

To be fair we have different translations of the official versions too