The Official "How many parts?" Thread

[Roger]

Temple of Ancients is the place they can do all the gravity defying mindbending crazy boss fight atuff that Final Fantasy games always feel the need to end on without needing to invent an excuse.

 

[ForceStealer]

Temple of the Ancients makes zero sense to be frank, that's a wet blanket of an ending

We learn about Meteor, Sephiroth gets the Black Materia, Cloud beats Aerith, Aerith vanishes, Cloud's doubts about his identity/existence are at a fever-pitch. It's not as strong as the Northern Crater would be, but that's not a wet blanket of an ending. What about Forgotten Capitol makes a more exciting ending?

 

[Tetsujin]

We learn about Meteor, Sephiroth gets the Black Materia, Cloud beats Aerith, Aerith vanishes, Cloud's doubts about his identity/existence are at a fever-pitch. It's not as strong as the Northern Crater would be, but that's not a wet blanket of an ending. What about Forgotten Capitol makes a more exciting ending?

Assuming Aerith still dies...that. Also, Jenova battle.

But it's Remake so it gets extra exciting when Aerith lives instead and then Sephiroth takes over and corrupts the spirits of the Ancients from the temple and they all do the fusion dance to combine into a 20m tall Mega Black Mage and then they yeet you into the rift between time and space where Squall crosses over from FFVIII to take over the lead role from Cloud to reveal the final title of the trilogy: Final Fantasy VII Renzokuken.

 

[ForceStealer]

As posted in the other thread. I think ending a part on Aerith's death completely undoes their stated intention with that part of the game. But, as you say, it's gonna end with Goofy faux sacrificing himself anyway so

 

[ultima espio]

I can see it ending after Cloud gives Sephiroth the black materia in the crater, with part 3 opening with Tifa in Junon. The trailer showed us the City of the Ancients and the meteor briefly, so...

Thinking about it, starting with the raid on Junon would be an awesome opening. Imagine Sapphire weapon being the first boss.

 

[Theozilla]

(again going under the presumption that the OG's general outline is going to followed, I am not interested in debating the presupposition for most discussions)

Yeah, my ideal first choice for the ending point of Rebirth would definitely be the Weapons waking up and Cloud handing over the Black Materia and then falling into the Lifestream.

For my second choice I would pick the Temple of the Ancients as the ending point, while I am not as adamant as @ForceStealer in it being essential that Aerith's death is not the finale, I do agree it is more effective/capturing the feeling of losing her if there is some amount of game time before and/or after before her death present.
Also regardless of whether it is an ending point or not, I expect the Temple of the Ancients will connect to the time-wimey elements the Remake project has introduced since in the OG vague discussions of the flow of time and The Lifestream were most prominent during the Temple of the Ancients in the OG.

Then my third choice is by process of elimination Aerith's death/Forgotten Capital as the ending point, since the devs might feel because it is a multi-part Remake project (and the general fame of FFVII in general) trying to replicate the gameplay and suddenness aspect of losing Aerith in the OG is a pointless endeavor and letting it be an ending point works fine for them.

Anyways, my current speculative chapter break down for Rebirth (with my first choice ending point) presently looks something like this:

Chapter 1: Kalm/opening stuff
Chapter 2: Nibelheim flashback
Chapters 3-4: Chocobo Farm, Yuffie joining the party, Road to Junon, Marshes & Mythril Mines, Elena's introduction, & Fort Condor
Chapter 5: Junon (plus any remaining Eastern Continent backtracking/exploration)
Chapter 6: Ship and Costa del Sol
Chapters 7-8: Mt. Corel, North Corel, Cait Sith joining the party, Gold Saucer, & Corel Prison
Chapter 9: Gongaga & remake original material (plus some Western Continent exploration)
Chapter 10: Cosmo Canyon
Chapters 11-12: Return to Nibelheim, Vincent joining the party, Mt. Nibel mountains
Chapter 13: Rocket Town & Cid joining the party
Chapters 14-16: Wutai, more Western continent exploration, remake original material, return to the Gold Saucer
Chapter 17: Temple of the Ancients
Chapters 18-19: Getting to the Northern Continent, Bone Village, Forgotten City & Aerith's death
Chapter 20: Icicle Inn/Area (plus maybe Modeoheim)
Chapter 21: Northern Crater, ending

 

[Eerie]

Yes, given the trailer, they're definitely going to Northern Crater. Meteor being summoned, Aerith praying Holy, Holy in the water, plus Tifa's line probably happening when Cloud is being manipulated by Sephiroth there, it all makes sense and it's the place where it makes the most sense to stop part 2, narratively. I've been convinced for a long while that this would be the stop of a part (be it 2 or 3).

I think they'll also clearly want to separate Aerith's death and the Lifestream's scenes; the Lifestream's scene has always been *more* important narratively than Aerith's death (it's the turning point of the game), but because of Aerith's death, this is what stuck in the players' minds. By separating them in two different games, the Lifestream scene can shine on its own and be remembered for what it is: the culminating point of Cloud's story, when he takes back control of his own body.

 

[kuroudo]

Yes, given the trailer, they're definitely going to Northern Crater. Meteor being summoned, Aerith praying Holy, Holy in the water, plus Tifa's line probably happening when Cloud is being manipulated by Sephiroth there, it all makes sense and it's the place where it makes the most sense to stop part 2, narratively. I've been convinced for a long while that this would be the stop of a part (be it 2 or 3).

I think they'll also clearly want to separate Aerith's death and the Lifestream's scenes; the Lifestream's scene has always been *more* important narratively than Aerith's death (it's the turning point of the game), but because of Aerith's death, this is what stuck in the players' minds. By separating them in two different games, the Lifestream scene can shine on its own and be remembered for what it is: the culminating point of Cloud's story, when he takes back control of his own body.

i agree with you that phrase of tifa about the clones is probably when sephiroth tells cloud that he is a clone of him and that he never existed.

 

[Theozilla]

i agree with you that phrase of tifa about the clones is probably when sephiroth tells cloud that he is a clone of him and that he never existed.

Personally I think this dialogue exchange from the trailer (presuming they are in direct response to each other, and aren't from two separate conversations)




I think those lines are more likely Rebirth's version of the dialogue Cloud and Tifa have after the flashback story is finished in Kalm.


Or maybe their dialogue exchange in Junon.



If those lines were/are dialogue from the Northern Crater I think the delivery and tone would be a little more frantic and panicked IMO.

 

[kuroudo]

but how can tifa say that if someone else has not mentioned being an impostor/clone before, like sephiroth for example?

may be ur right and that dialogue has nothing to do with the northern cave but in the trailer there are hints that it may end up in that area in part 2.

i think part 2 is going to end in junon with barret and tifa seeing the arrival of meteor.

 

[Theozilla]

but how can tifa say that if someone else has not mentioned being an impostor/clone before, like sephiroth for example?

may be ur right and that dialogue has nothing to do with the northern cave but in the trailer there are hints that it may end up in that area in part 2.

i think part 2 is going to end in junon with barret and tifa seeing the arrival of meteor.

There doesn't necessarily need to be a prior mention of a imposter for Tifa to bring it up. If Tifa's dialogue is indeed in direct response to Cloud's dialogue, it can just be part of the general response of Tifa questioning how Cloud assumed Tifa's injuries were fatal. (it's a way to emphasize incredulity/confusion about being told someone thought you died in the past, but you being alive presently)

Now, I could be wrong and it is dialogue from the Northern Crater, but I currently think it is more likely dialogue from Kalm after the flashback is told.

 

[Eerie]

@Theozilla : I thought like you at first, but there's something off in Tifa's way to respond to Cloud that definitely caught my ear in French; plus answering that to Cloud seems especially off since he specifically says he thought she was a goner, as in "oh I was wrong obviously". Like, why would Tifa react so badly to a line like this when in the OG she was simply trying to figure out if he'd truly seen her? It doesn't add up to what we know and to Tifa's character, imho.

In both cases, her lines are changed from the OG, this is a new line and it makes more sense to give it to the Northern Crater context, since she's still trying to figure out Cloud's story in Kalm. Meanwhile, I completely believe that the devs are going an extra mile for the Northern Crater and it's going to hurt badly with Sephiroth twisting and manipulating both Cloud and Tifa there. I think Mako really hit the nail with this theory.

 

[Theozilla]

@Theozilla : I thought like you at first, but there's something off in Tifa's way to respond to Cloud that definitely caught my ear in French; plus answering that to Cloud seems especially off since he specifically says he thought she was a goner, as in "oh I was wrong obviously". Like, why would Tifa react so badly to a line like this when in the OG she was simply trying to figure out if he'd truly seen her? It doesn't add up to what we know and to Tifa's character, imho.

In both cases, her lines are changed from the OG, this is a new line and it makes more sense to give it to the Northern Crater context, since she's still trying to figure out Cloud's story in Kalm. Meanwhile, I completely believe that the devs are going an extra mile for the Northern Crater and it's going to hurt badly with Sephiroth twisting and manipulating both Cloud and Tifa there. I think Mako really hit the nail with this theory.

I mean I agree that the Northern Crater is another viable option of where/when Tifa's trailer dialogue is coming, but I currently feel at the moment with the information at hand, Kalm (or Junon) are the more likely contexts of the dialogue.

 

[Eerie]

The thing is, I don't think there will be such a tension between the two before Northern Crater. There are two instances where Tifa ponders about Cloud's identity, and that's in Kalm (how badly was I cut?) and in Cosmo Canyon (Cloud... you are you, right? or something similar). And it's very important for the story to go on that Tifa believes in Cloud, that she puts her faith in him, as it's what allows him to go on. So I can't really imagine a high tension so early in the second game.

It makes more sense, to me, that this Tifa's line serves the Northern Crater scene better; it makes more sense to have Cloud losing it before she says that, which would completely destroy him, IMHO.

 

[kuroudo]

I mean I agree that the Northern Crater is another viable option of where/when Tifa's trailer dialogue is coming, but I currently feel at the moment with the information at hand, Kalm (or Junon) are the more likely contexts of the dialogue.

listening to the tone in which tifa says that line the only area I can think of is there because that is the only time cloud is told he wasn't there or didn't exist so he could say that since tifa isn't the one lying or something like that.

in the original game it is in the moment where this situation arises.

 

[Roger]

@Theozilla : I thought like you at first, but there's something off in Tifa's way to respond to Cloud that definitely caught my ear in French; plus answering that to Cloud seems especially off since he specifically says he thought she was a goner, as in "oh I was wrong obviously". Like, why would Tifa react so badly to a line like this when in the OG she was simply trying to figure out if he'd truly seen her? It doesn't add up to what we know and to Tifa's character, imho.

In both cases, her lines are changed from the OG, this is a new line and it makes more sense to give it to the Northern Crater context, since she's still trying to figure out Cloud's story in Kalm. Meanwhile, I completely believe that the devs are going an extra mile for the Northern Crater and it's going to hurt badly with Sephiroth twisting and manipulating both Cloud and Tifa there. I think Mako really hit the nail with this theory.

They could go an extra mile at the Northern Crater but it doesn't fit with what we know of Tifa's character exactly either. At the Northern Crater, Tifa knows Cloud's story isn't adding up, she doesn't know how it does fit together but she knows what Sephiroth is driving at, she's evasive to try and avoid playing into Sephiroth's hands, rather then help attack Cloud's arguments personally.

At Kalm, she is still trying to figure things out for herself, asking heated questions about what he is thinking when describing how bad a state she was in isn't as big a deal yet.

 

[FFShinra]

I think the Tifa dialogue is in the Kalm retelling. There just isn't a good way to voice act the snippet after Barret goes down stairs and it not come off as awkward. The party has to address the fact that Cloud can't remember the end of his own retelling and this might be part of that.

Alternatively, based off the "imposter" language, this happens when they reach the reconstructed Nibelheim and maybe Cloud has a small mental break about all the imposters and briefly wonders if Tifa is also one despite the facts about her being slashed.

 

[waw]

The thing is, I don't think there will be such a tension between the two before Northern Crater. There are two instances where Tifa ponders about Cloud's identity, and that's in Kalm (how badly was I cut?) and in Cosmo Canyon (Cloud... you are you, right? or something similar).

Cut content for the OG had Tifa and Aerith discussing Cloud's mental state and Tifa afraid to call him on his lies because she's afraid he'll snap. The friendship between Tifa and Aerith and their novella seems to hint strongly to me that we're going to see this concept resurface. Tifa and Aerith will discuss how odd Cloud is, and in greater ways than before. That'll lead to Tifa-Cloud will-they-won't-they tensions.