The rebuild of Nibelheim? (Crisis Core Spoilers)

[Ⓐaron]

Shinra assumed Hojo had complete control over the people he was experimenting on, and didn't count on their free will (e.g. Zack and Cloud's) taking effect. It's the one place Shinra's pretty much incompetent at being totalitarian; they overestimate the abilities of their scientists.

 

[Channy]

wat? You're completely missing my question.

Are you talking about the actors also being experimented on and acting to play their role right but freewill an... shit? what? I'm really lost.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I don't see what's confusing. They assumed Cloud wouldn't exercise free will because they assumed they had adequate control over him, thus they didn't worry about finding replacements for his family. Shinra's shortcoming that prevents them from being able to maintain control over the world is that they believe they understand science a lot better than they actually do.

 

[Channy]

Ohh okay there we go.

No wait. Still not getting it. If they thought that they would have his mind under control, and the events of Nibelheim never happened like for everyone else.. why not replace his mom?

 

[Ⓐaron]

Who else was going to care about her? As far as I know Cloud's family didn't have any other relatives outside Nibelheim.

 

[Channy]

Ahh but see, how else can you tell? If we're going to go down that road, then we could say no one else in Nibelheim had relatives outside Nibelheim. Y'see the flaw now?

 

[Ⓐaron]

The odds that no one in Nibelheim had outside relatives are slim. Also, we don't know for sure that they didn't try to fake the existence of his family as well; they may well have bothered trying to fake the existence of Cloud's family to outsiders. However, there was no reason for them to bother trying to fake the existence of his family to him, since, as previously mentioned, they considered him to be a puppet who was completely under their control.

 

[Channy]

I dunno. To me it just seemed like they tried to fake everyone else who didn't matter, and those who had connections to the main characters were just dead, ala Cloud's mom, Tifa's dad, Zangan... although we see Tifa's dad die and she witnessed it, it would prove to be a very entertaining mindfuck for her to come across 'him' again.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Channy, they don't need to worry about replacing Cloud's parents because the only real link they have to worry about with her....Cloud...is part of the Sephiroth Copy Project. They don't care.

And the actors they hired aren't necessarily perfect stand ins for the inhabitants from before. They just need people to fill up the houses and pretend they've lived there all along. They aren't trying to make a perfect match for each person. Hence the killing of people who try to blow the whistle or wander in, asking too many questions.

Nibelheim just needs to look like its never been burned down and the inhabitants slaughtered.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Not to mention that in Tifa's case it would probably be detrimental to start receiving correspondence from her parents after she saw them killed. In most cases, though, I did assume Shinra fabricated correspondence when people sent letters and stuff, though afaik the game doesn't really clarify that

 

[Cat Rage Room]

But other than the scientists in Shinra, who out there is super smart with 1337 haxxor forensic skillz?

It's not like everyone but Shinra employees are retarded, you know.

 

[Meteo]

Looks like we're out of the frying pan...*puts on shades*...and into the fire.

YEEAAAHHHH!

Meatloaf ftw.

Why wouldn't they? Most people trust ShinRa.

It's not like anyone investigated the aftermath of the sectopr 7 fall, is it?

Officially no, but then again it did inflate the motive of Avalanche's revolutionary efforts which ultimately lead to the crippling of Midgar and Shinra anyway, so even without investigative suspicions, they still had plenty to be wary of. It's safer to cover it up than to simply leave it as it was, because even if an investigation was silenced, revolution against Shinra could have begun much earlier.

With Cosmo Canyon a stone's throw away, I'd bet you could find a good lead investigator there. They would probably start by hiring a few excavators from Bone Village

I expect Bugenhagen knew the truth immediately.

I dunno. To me it just seemed like they tried to fake everyone else who didn't matter, and those who had connections to the main characters were just dead, ala Cloud's mom, Tifa's dad, Zangan... although we see Tifa's dad die and she witnessed it, it would prove to be a very entertaining mindfuck for her to come across 'him' again.

iirc, Zangan survived. Also, immediately after the incident, Cloud and Zack were taken to Shinra Mansion to be experimented on. As far as Hojo and Shinra were concerned, Cloud would never see his mother again anyway. He was a failed experiment as Hojo called him, no one at Shinra had ever contemplated the possibility of Cloud (or Zack) ever escaping captivity. Thus with Cloud out of the picture, the imitation of his mother's existence was unnecessary, but as Mako Eyes pointed out, it's not like Shinra was concerned with taking their elaborate cover up to such an extreme degree. It just had to look like a normal, undisturbed town from a distance. This way they only had to worry about those who got too close or nosy.

 

[Channy]

Zangan survived? Oh. I didn't know that.

I guess I can come to terms with Cloud's mom thing, but I still don't get the whole.. "burned down accident village.. people will be suspicious?" =/ I dunno, I'm just stubborn.

 

[Meteo]

Zangan rescued Tifa from the Nibelheim reactor after Zack and Cloud faced off with Sephiroth, but before Hojo and his minions arrived and took Zack and Cloud back to the Mansion.

If your hometown was mysteriously burned to the ground in a single night, and all the inhabitants slaughtered...wouldn't you want to know wtf happened?

 

[Channy]

Zangan rescued Tifa from the Nibelheim reactor after Zack and Cloud faced off with Sephiroth, but before Hojo and his minions arrived and took Zack and Cloud back to the Mansion.

oic. Thanks.

If your hometown was mysteriously burned to the ground in a single night, and all the inhabitants slaughtered...wouldn't you want to know wtf happened?

Wouldn't I be dead with it though?

 

[Ⓐaron]

Not if you were outside the town when it happened

 

[Tetsujin]

I still think it's stupid. A huge fire like that is the perfect way to cover up everything. People can investigate, sure. But wtf would they find anyway? All the evidence would go up in ashes. It's more suspicious to rebuild the damn thing imo.

 

[Ⓐaron]

A fire where everyone dies is pretty goddamn suspicious on its own imo. Usually a few people would get out.

 

[Channy]

Not if you were outside the town when it happened

I'd probly be slain by Sephiroth. I have that sort of luck.

A fire where everyone dies is pretty goddamn suspicious on its own imo. Usually a few people would get out.

Above statement. ^^ Seph slayed most of everyone if they weren't burning in a building.

 

[ForceStealer]

But, so far, the clones hadn't left. Perhaps is part of the experiment, put the clones in familiar surroundings. I don't know for what purpose, but its Hojo

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Well, they had no problem bombing Banora to hell and back, and apparently Banora was a lot more culturally significant than Nibelhiem. Wasn't it its own country/autonomous city-statewhatever?

 

[Ⓐaron]

I'd probly be slain by Sephiroth. I have that sort of luck.



Above statement. ^^ Seph slayed most of everyone if they weren't burning in a building.

My point is that everyone who lived in Nibelheim can't have been in the immediate vicinity, it's almost a given that some people would be gone when it happened and Sephiroth wouldn't be able to track them down. So they'd return and want to investigate.

Of course, they'd be slain when they returned anyway, but the point is that having Shinra employees there to find out that they're investigating just reduces the chance that anyone will find out about what happened.

 

[Channy]

Yeah but as Tet says, what is there to investigate? Shinra scooped up all the survivors and locked them away in the mansion. Sephiroth is gone somewhere in a giant Mako encased crystal, or floating along a mako river.. What would be there to find other than just the remaining ashes of buildings and corpes?

Also, Banora, excellent example.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Remaining ashes and corpses can tell a lot to people who know enough about forensics, and as munatik, Meteo and others pointed out, there are probably a lot of people willing to investigate such things in Cosmo Canyon.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Hellllloooooo, Banora?