"There is nothing stronger than Sephiroth, nothing above him" ... Is this real?

[Tennyo]

[quote author=Masamune link=topic=400.msg10887#msg10887 date=1232824348]
Because the rampant order of Sephyism would sacrifice them to their unholy god if they dared to commit such a sin.
[/quote]

o lawd Sephyism crusades! Would they also have their own version of the Templars?

That being said, to anyone who thinks, "Wtf they can make someone stronger than Seph!" Sure they could, but would it make sense? Would be aid the story? I think they want to keep Sephiroth ever-present as a true menace. He may never return (hopefully), but it wouldn't do to have everyone suddenly forget about him because something bigger and badder comes along.

 

[Makoeyes987]

They don't need to make a villain as strong as Sephiroth, to make a threat or conflict just as dangerous.

 

[ForceStealer]

My (and Tenny's I'm pretty sure) point exactly.

 

[Masamune]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=400.msg11956#msg11956 date=1233158716]
They don't need to make a villain as strong as Sephiroth, to make a threat or conflict just as dangerous.[/quote]

Would you class Weiss as that then? Even if he was a puppet of Omega at the time?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, I definitely would. Weiss definitely needed more exposition in DC though. I hate how wasted he was in its plot.

Hopefully he'll prove to be more interesting in another game or something.

 

[curiousACfan]

Re: "There is nothing stronger than Sephiroth, nothing above him" ... Is this re

[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=400.msg11884#msg11884 date=1233133370]
I do have the whole audio of the commentary ripped as series of MP3s, but the hard drive they're on hasn't been working lately
[/quote]

Ah, jeez, that sucks hard. Well, if it ever happens to start working, I'm sure myself and others around here would love to get our hands on it.

EDIT: By the way, would you happen to remember the quote concerning Sephiroth's strength? Is the one I found earlier the verbatim quote or just a paraphrasing?

 

[Masamune]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=400.msg11967#msg11967 date=1233161291]
Yeah, I definitely would. Weiss definitely needed more exposition in DC though. I hate how wasted he was in its plot.

Hopefully he'll prove to be more interesting in another game or something.
[/quote]

Okay. I just wanted to know if said villain had to rely on his own power, unlike Weiss who was piloting Omega.

 

[ForceStealer]

Wait...what are we classifying Weiss as?

 

[Masamune]

Mako said the villain can still be a threat without being as powerful as Sephiroth per se. Omega/Weiss almost destroyed the planet, but Weiss himself is probably weaker than Sephiroth toe-to-toe.

 

[Tennyo]

[quote author=ForceStealer link=topic=400.msg11960#msg11960 date=1233159744]
My (and Tenny's I'm pretty sure) point exactly.
[/quote]

Exactly. I just lack the ability to be blunt.

 

[Nocturne]

Yeah, I think he'll be playing a further role.

And what was their whole stance on Genesis being as powerful as Sephiroth?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Genesis being on par with Sephiroth, as stated in the CC Ultimania?

Keep in mind the context of the profile. Its describing Genesis as a SOLDIER, before he defected, and before Sephiroth continued to increase his power and grow stronger. In the past, its not too hard to believe they would be close in terms of power but as Genesis degraded, and Sephiroth grew....a gap in power would only come naturally.

 

[sephirothpaine]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=400.msg12162#msg12162 date=1233185121]
Genesis being on par with Sephiroth, as stated in the CC Ultimania?

Keep in mind the context of the profile. Its describing Genesis as a SOLDIER, before he defected, and before Sephiroth continued to increase his power and grow stronger. In the past, its not too hard to believe they would be close in terms of power but as Genesis degraded, and Sephiroth grew....a gap in power would only come naturally.
[/quote]

Did Genesis regain his strength after CC? He's no long degrading so I would think so.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm sure he did, but he's certainly no longer on par with the demi-god Sephiroth became.

 

[Nocturne]

The only way I could see Genesis becoming even stronger is that maybe the thing he was sealed in was some type of concentrated liquid mako that not only kept him sealed but enhanced his power. But even then, Sephiroth has kind of merged with many powerful things.

 

[Andalegogo]

Since it's been touched upon, I wonder exactly how it was that Genesis got out of the Deepground facility...

It doesn't seem very easy, and I doubt the Restrictors or any of the ShinRa execs would grant him the privilege of just leaving on a whim.

Considering that his "awakening" seems reminiscent of Sephiroth's "rebirth" with the fact that they both appear to have been residing inside of a sort of Mako sphere/crystal thing, and then seeing that Mako Reactor 0 has a mako pit alike to the one Sephiroth fell into at Nibelheim---what if Genesis did the exact same thing Sephiroth did?!?!?

And I've always been a little intrigued by one of Weiss's final lines where he says something he and Nero going to the Lifestream to join "him". I don't recall anyone ever referring to Omega as anything beyond an "it", so I don't think a reference to Omega WEAPON would fit.

 

[Restless]

[quote author=Andalegogo link=topic=400.msg12371#msg12371 date=1233269505]
Considering that his "awakening" seems reminiscent of Sephiroth's "rebirth" with the fact that they both appear to have been residing inside of a sort of Mako sphere/crystal thing, and then seeing that Mako Reactor 0 has a mako pit alike to the one Sephiroth fell into at Nibelheim---what if Genesis did the exact same thing Sephiroth did?!?!?
[/quote]
Then Genesis is a copycat Or the creators are seriously running low on ideas. What are the chances of two ex-best friends doing the same exact thing? Of course it's for different reasons.

I believe that the CC (or DoC?) guide said that Genesis did it to himself and declined Nero and Weiss's offer. So, I'm guessing he might have just...left. Then sealed himself away. The way it is stated just sounds like a free will type of thing. Not to mention that getting in a fight with Genesis would weaken Deepground. They're about to rebel, and Genesis isn't a weakling. We all know he has a high amount of stamina. The last thing Deepground would have needed was to have members killed off by a monster-SOLDIER who cites lines of poetry.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's a pretty weak connection between Sephiroth and Genesis. Like seriously.

I don't think that sphere is mako either. It's something closer to water.

 

[Andalegogo]

[quote author=Restless]I believe that the CC (or DoC?) guide said that Genesis did it to himself and declined Nero and Weiss's offer. So, I'm guessing he might have just...left. Then sealed himself away. The way it is stated just sounds like a free will type of thing. Not to mention that getting in a fight with Genesis would weaken Deepground. They're about to rebel, and Genesis isn't a weakling. We all know he has a high amount of stamina. The last thing Deepground would have needed was to have members killed off by a monster-SOLDIER who cites lines of poetry.
[/quote]

Yeah, but I'm not saying Genesis was actually tossed in like Sephiroth was. Genesis declined the offer to aid the Tsviets and decided to leave, while the Tsivets watched him go.

What I'm curious about is how he got the hell out of Deepground. I'm just saying Weiss seems to reference G's departure, but it just seems so vague. But, too, this reference really doesn't seem to fit any other character who a)Weiss knew personally, b)was in Deepground for a time, c)apparently went to the Lifestream as Weiss was in DoC.

[quote author=Makoeyes987]That's a pretty weak connection between Sephiroth and Genesis. Like seriously.

I don't think that sphere is mako either. It's something closer to water.[/quote]

It certainly does seem like liquid, but Sephiroth's own Mako sphere wasn't rock solid either.

As for it being a weak connection...SquareEnix has done many things in the Compilation. This sort of connection wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sephiroth's was a crystal. And it was materia. And green.

Genesis's was sealed in a water filled chamber in a cave below Midgar, as stated in the CC Ultimania.

That's not really a connection.

 

[Andalegogo]

Well, I checked over the things you said, Makoeyes987, but I wouldn't say Sephiroth's sphere was actually materia. When Cloud handed him the Black Materia, it's pretty clear that the substance isn't solid the way materia is supposed to be. It appears to just be Mako energy.

And yes, Sephiroth's sphere is green. I went and watched the DoC secret ending and also saw Genesis's sphere was also green, and then it burned brilliant red before exploding into a blue-green flash. Mako energy has been shown to be green/blue-green. The only striking difference is the brilliant red, but this appears to be the result of the seal being undone to release Genesis. Unfortunately we were never able to see Sephiroth's sphere undo itself.

And I also checked the CC Ultimania for that third line of yours, but there's really nothing that states what G's sphere is made out of. The terms "water-filled chamber" and "underground cavern" seem to refer to the actual cave itself (because it is indeed a water-filled, underground chamber), not the sphere Genesis is inside of.

At this point, Genesis being in a Mako sphere alike to Sephiroth's would make sense, especially if he had no means of escaping Deepground beyond taking a leap into Mako Reactor 0, which is exactly what Weiss was about to do when he made what could be a reference to Genesis.

But as I said, the idea only sprung up because I'm very curious as to how Genesis got out of Deepground. Jumping into a mako pit seems like something Genesis would be willing to do if it might bring him closer to the planet.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

I know this is a bit of a leap, but the fact that Sephiroth is like 50 levels above your characters during the one non-player controlled character in your party might indicate how far above your characters he is later on in the game. Of course, he's a pittance to beat, so maybe he dosen't increase in power, and game mechanics and story mechanics don't always mix but I thought it was to give us some hint to his power.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sephiroth is encased in a mako crystal structure he created for himself. It's permeable because he wanted it to be but it's more magical in nature. And mako that's crystallized is just called materia. It was solid to some degree since it held itself stable and was solid enough to hang from the ceiling.

Also, you can read the CC Ultimania translations again yourself.

Q7-3: You call tell from the voices that the two men who appear by helicopter and recover Genesis are DC’s Nero and Weiss, but what do they mean when they say “apparently he’s a brother of ours” and “however… will he agree to it?”? From DC’s hidden movie you can interpret that Genesis has been laid to rest in the cave under Midgar up until he awakens, but…?

A7-3: The ‘elder brother’ is used in the figurative sense. If they are injected with Genesis’ genes, that creates a connection, a bond between the cellular units. That is what is meant by ‘brother’.

In CC Nero and Weiss are on a mission to recover Genesis, so in this case “will he agree to it?” means “will he agree to join us or not?” But, as in the response for A6-3, Genesis rejects it and decides to have himself sealed in the water-filled chamber below Midgar.

To someone who has only played DC, when they watch the secret movie in that game they will take it as “an ominous being sealed in a water-filled chamber has been release onto the world”, but if you watch the movie again after having completed CC then one could go 180 degrees and interpret it in a completely different way.

His seal is called a water-filled chamber. Where Genesis was located is a cave. Why would they go from calling the same thing a cave, to a water filled "chamber?" And the cave beneath Midgar isn't really even filled with water. It's just a cave with water in it, not...filled with it. Just going by logic it's not mako, it's only a sphere filled with water. And the reason it changes color is because of the energy he released to get out of it. And cause it just looks cooler.

 

[ForceStealer]

The way he got out actually REALLY reminded me of the Kjata summon, how it keeps switching elements.

 

[Strangelove]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=400.msg12752#msg12752 date=1233383036]And the cave beneath Midgar isn't really even filled with water. It's just a cave with water in it, not...filled with it.
[/quote]
What they called it originally, 'mizurou', doesn't really need to be full to the top with water (I think; it's a torture related word and I'm not really up on my torturing). About waist high or so would be enough, as long as it's not very nice. You're not drowning, but you can't lay or sit down or rest and you're constantly exposed to the water.

When I read it, I assumed they were talking about the cave they were in itself. Different people write these, so there might be slight changes in how things are described.