Thoughts on how to expand the Midgar scenario

[Velorian]

There is another part I haven't seen many talk about ... And I know this is a stretch but ... I could see them utalize outside world material for midgar. We already know Cid is involved with shinra. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to have him visit midgar with the tiny bronco and apply for additional funding. I am not saying we will play as him or even have much to deal with him, but I could see him make a cameo like this.

Another option would be a materia thief encounter. Some1 specific sneaking into midgar where we see the "thief" steal some materia. It's another small cameo that would set the further story of this character in motion. Basically creating a history for this materia thief.

There could be a whole caith sith segment. Without giving spoilers I could again see him make some appearences in midgar. Perhaps getting an assignment to do something. They could make us love him a lot. Like him getting abused by shinra or something for dirty missions.

There could be a beloved orange animal we see being shipped in a wagon pulled by chocobo's up to shinra tower, or even some kinda lab of hojo we never knew existed. And then talking about this beloved orange animal... a lot of people seem to be concerned he will only be playable for a short time if at all. A neat trick they could pull is have him join the party earlier, and get captured later in the story of midgar. It would make more sense then why he is putting up a show for hojo. I know this messes with the initial meet of the original story, but I think this is something I would not mind at all.

What I am getting at is, we don't really know the wereabouts of these characters before we encountered them. Well perhaps the only exception being Vincent. I think there is plenty of oppertunities to do something with these characters. If it's done tastefully I wouldn't mind at all. It would even give a better back story to most of them. Or fill in some of the blanks that I atleast have.

 

[Mayo Master]

One way to expand the Midgar scenario would be to begin the game earlier, when Tifa finds Cloud stranded and catatonic on the platform of the slums 7 station.
The issue would be that you wouldn't get to begin the game with the iconic opening scene that we all know and love, but on the plus side you have room for considerable expansion on the Avalanche members and how Cloud would interact with them.
In addition, there could be one part of the original game script that could be more detailed - I'm referring to Tifa's flashback while being comatose between the Northern Crater incident and her awakening in Junon:

But then I heard...you were going far away...
And I didn't want that...
...I didn't know what to do. So, I thought I needed more time.
And that's why I told you about the AVALANCHE job. I wanted to be with you, watch you.

Because I got to wonder: after Cloud reunites with Tifa in Midgar, why would he need to distance himself from her? [insert fan theory here].

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Make Wedge an incel/hikikomori.

Poor Wedge. What's he done to deserve this? Sure he's a bit tubby, and sometimes his ass is on fire, but he seems like a cheerful, friendly, easy-going bloke who appreciates good cooking and likes to get out and do fun activities with his friends. I bet there are loads of girls in the Sector Seven slums who wouldn't mind a crack at Wedge.

I say make Wedge and Biggs a couple. Everybody knows that's what they are.

 

[Vyzzuvazzadth]

Introduce President Shinra, Reeve, Heidegger, Scarlet, Hojo, and Palmer much earlier in the game, perhaps soon after the first reactor bombing. Shinra was the primary antagonist of Midgar in the OG but this time with an entire game wrapped around just the Midgar section its important to introduce the villains much earlier and give them more screen time. Sephiroth's screen time should be very limited as not to destract from the primary villains of the first game.

There already is a scene with Heidegger and President Shinra very early on in the game. The one we see in the trailer happens just after Cloud looks up to the reactor cooling tower (confirmed by Maximilian DOOD who saw the whole Bombing Mission behind closed doors).

Sephiroth should not take the spotlight, I agree. Especially since he (hopefully) only appears to Cloud as an illusion.

Make Jessie's crush on Cloud more obvious and fleshed out.

Also confirmed by Maximilian DOOD. There are many times Jessie is openly flirty with Cloud during the Bombing Mission.

Give Cloud the Hardy Daytona halfway through the game with a cool backstory. His bike and trains will be the primary method of transportation through the city.

I doubt we'll get the Hardy Daytona before the final Bike Chase escape sequence at the end of Midgar. We already see that bike on display in the Shinra building in the latest trailer, which wouldn't make much sense if we got it earlier.

 

[ForceStealer]

I have no problem with hallucination Sephiroths occasionally antagonizing Cloud, but I do wonder if it will have any effect on their interaction the Cargo Ship. Sephiroth greets him with, "Who are you?" Which serves to lead into his whole trying-to-convince-Cloud-he-was-never-real angle. I guess you could still do it, but it might have to be handled a bit more deftly, since it likely won't make the player doubt Cloud's existence this time

 

[Makoeyes987]

...If anything, Sephiroth saying "who are you?" And acting as if he doesn't know Cloud at all would you be an even deeper mindfuck to Cloud.

Imagine being in Cloud's shoes where you've been hallucinating this evil monster who took your home and family from you. You know he's not real and a hallucination.

You now suddenly see him in the flesh but now... He doesn't recognize you at all and now everyone else is wondering why that is as well.

What's going on? Why would he do that? Is there something wrong with your memories? Was that really him? Or was the one you saw from your memories a fake?

Like if anything, the Cargo Ship confrontation has even MORE potential for mindfuckery silliness now that Cloud's dealing with a hallucination Sephiroth openly trolling him, and a physical Sephiroth that doesn't even know who he is.

 

[Ite]

It’s funny, until I heard the line “Hold on to that hatred” I was so irritated about Seph’s new appearances. Now it all seems to be leading somewhere — precision manipulation, towards obtaining the Black Mat. (I find it even funnier that it’s the English line that wooed me, and the Japanese line is more of the same “I will never be a memory” stuff which falls right out of my ears.) It looks like his toying with Cloud is going to be very different this time around — who knows how different the story will be by the time we get to the cargo ship?

There’s a lot to like about OG Sephiroth not seeming to recognize or take interest in Cloud, and Cloud puffing himself up to be Seph’s nemesis only to discover he’s only a puppet — but “seeming to” is the operative word here. The endgame truth is that Cloud’s original estimation of himself is correct. With a post-Compilation audience, however (even those who have only been exposed to ads) Sephiroth and Cloud are destined to be nemeses, too much so for Seph to toy with him in the same way again. Everyone’s seen a clip of the big-sword showdown from ACC or heard fanboys/girls/x gush about the Villain for decades; that’s all essentially prologue to FF7R. Unless you’re going in blind* you can guess the story concludes with an ultimate-dude-showdown (and after all the twists and turns, you’ll be right).

They could still play it as Mind!Sephiroth knows and taunts Cloud, but Public!Sephiroth doesn’t seem to recognize him. That would be a bit of a mindfuck as well: finally other people can see him, but this “real” Sephiroth can’t be the same one as the one Cloud can see... so who is the real Sephiroth?

Ah, Mako said it better, and about 10 seconds earlier

*man, going in blind again would be a treat.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I really hope that once all of the pieces of the Remake are released that we get to see some good first time blind playthroughs from people who have no idea what's coming. I can't even imagine the depth of the emotional impact that all of the big events will have in this scope – ESPECIALLY if they're really nailing all of the dialogue and the believable moments of interpersonal interaction.

Like, I already am not really prepared for the Sector 7 Pillar Assault. That's gonna be fucking gut-wrenching, and that moment's just a precursor of the horrors in the Forgotten City. I want to know how the new realtime combat system is gonna be used with the scene of Cloud approaching Aerith and trying to hold back being forced to strike her down. I can imagine that the character is moving on their own, and you can make little pulls and deflections away, but you can't influence it in any other way.

With how Crisis Core built an entire combat system around its central scene, I've got big hopes that they can achieve something really impactful with the Remake's mechanics, even if they're not THAT centrally-focused.



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[Vyzzuvazzadth]

Is that really Sephiroth invoking Cloud's illusions? I'm still thinking all those illusions are just in Cloud's head with his identity crisis messing with him. If you listen to Sephiroth in the E3 trailer, his lines sound like Zack's lines before he dies (if I remember correctly). But since Cloud only remembers Sephiroth and what he did to his hometown but not Zack, his memories get muddled and produce a blend of truth and conjecture.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Is that really Sephiroth invoking Cloud's illusions? I'm still thinking all those illusions are just in Cloud's head with his identity crisis messing with him. If you listen to Sephiroth in the E3 trailer, his lines sound like Zack's lines before he dies (if I remember correctly). But since Cloud only remembers Sephiroth and what he did to his hometown but not Zack, his memories get muddled and produce a blend of truth and conjecture.

No.. Those words Sephiroth says to Cloud in the trailer do not match or resemble any iteration of Zack's final words whatsoever. Sephiroth isn't quoting Zack in any way that we know of.

 

[Vyzzuvazzadth]

Zack does say Cloud has to live. Not the other parts, though. Still, I don't think it's literally a conscious Sephiroth apparition but the Sephiroth Cloud remembers and one his own mind conjures up because of his PTSD. He probably saw the burning buildings after the reactor explosions (we see those in the E3 trailer) which triggered his memories of the burning Nibelheim which leads to that Sephiroth scene. Of course that's all theory land, but that's all we have for now.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I'd initially thought that that was a possibility, but the Japanese lines & delivery are VERY "Sephiroth-y" so I don't think that that's supposed to be a correlation that they're establishing in that scene, though they might be indirectly hinting at it depending on how they do the English version of the script.




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[Makoeyes987]

Zack does say Cloud has to live. Not the other parts, though. Still, I don't think it's literally a conscious Sephiroth apparition but the Sephiroth Cloud remembers and one his own mind conjures up because of his PTSD. He probably saw the burning buildings after the reactor explosions (we see those in the E3 trailer) which triggered his memories of the burning Nibelheim which leads to that Sephiroth scene. Of course that's all theory land, but that's all we have for now.

Zack says, "For the both of us... That's right... You're gonna.. You're gonna... live... You'll be my living legacy."

So aside from Sephiroth using the word "live," there is nothing in common with Zack's only known last words to his friend.

I dunno if it's because Crisis Core is so old or what, but that's Sephiroth isn't referring to Zack, at least any lines we've heard him say in previous entries.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I dunno if it's because Crisis Core is so old or what, but that's Sephiroth isn't referring to Zack, at least any lines we've heard him say in previous entries.

To be fair, we've already heard a shitton of lines for the first bombing mission that we had never heard before, as well as changes to lines that were there before. =P

 

[FFShinra]

Considering that the compilation is not going to be relied upon by the developers, its entirely possible they....change Zack's last words entirely. Therefore it can't be counted out that it is something like that.

 

[Makoeyes987]

If they change Zack's last words entirely, how would one know or be able to claim Sephiroth's words are the same or connected to Zack at all?

That's what people have said and that's simply not true given the dialogue. It could be Zack's words at a later date in a re-written script....

But using that argument of uncertainty, you could assume it's anything at this point. Changes may happen and be any thing but if one wants to say its a specific reference to something, there should at least be a reason... Aside from the uncertainty, while claiming its also similar when the line in question isn't, aside the vague request to "live."

 

[Solordinn]

i don't think Sephiroth is quoting Zack, at this point, cloud has no idea who Zack is (thanks to the Jenova-S cell scrambling his brain), so why would he be mad enough to attack Sephiroth. Only after he fully regains himself does he remember Zack.

 

[FFShinra]

I mean we are assuming its anything. Someone earlier suggested Tifa too. It's when others say its impossible, that things get rather hinky.

 

[ForceStealer]

Why is everyone so convinced it's not just Sephiroth speaking his own words, again?

 

[FFShinra]

for the sake of fanwank, what else.

 

[donkeyjack]

I am against Wedge being an Incel. Because I feel this term is used out of context just like any internet term.

 

[pxp]

I just interpret it as Sephiroth saying “you have to live,” the subtext being: “... because you have to deliver the Black Materia to me ...”

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

If they change Zack's last words entirely, how would one know or be able to claim Sephiroth's words are the same or connected to Zack at all?

Who is saying they're the same? The situation as I understand it is thus:

- We have Sephiroth saying something very bizarre that obviously carries meaning beyond the face value

- The words are somewhat reminiscent of final words we've heard from Zack to Cloud before -- i.e. shouting at Cloud to run right before a spray of blood filled the air in the original AC; and telling Cloud he has to live for him in CC

- Sephiroth is a dick

Also, let me ask you this. When you heard Barret making his new "This was just the first reactor" speech in the Symphonic Reunion trailer, did you not immediately think of these lines from the original game?:

"This mission was a success. But don't get lazy now. The hard part's still to come! Don't y'all be scared of that explosion! Cause the next one's gonna be bigger than that!"

Obviously the lines are different. Obviously the context even has differences. Both, though, are a motivational speech to the crew to maintain their resolve to continue bombing reactors.

There's a similar spirit to these lines despite the change. We're probably going to see a lot of that.

i don't think Sephiroth is quoting Zack, at this point, cloud has no idea who Zack is (thanks to the Jenova-S cell scrambling his brain), so why would he be mad enough to attack Sephiroth. Only after he fully regains himself does he remember Zack.

He would attack Sephiroth of all people whether the dude spoke or remained silent.

Where does this critique about quoting Zack making Cloud angry keep coming from? Come on, people. This isn't even my personal pet theory and I'm giving it a fair shake.

Why is everyone so convinced it's not just Sephiroth speaking his own words, again?

Show me this "everyone" (seems like a minority to me) and who's "convinced." =P

 

[NeithOF]

I don't know how much this will help you guys but i'll post the Japanese lines from the trailer.

Cloud: *sees Sephiroth* It's not possible
Sephiroth: Cloud, please lend me your power *extends hand*
Sephiroth again: Run, escape, survive...
Cloud: Stop messing around (in a "fuck outta here" kind of way)
Sephiroth: Don't forget about me

In my opinion Sephiroth's lines have nothing to do with Zack, but that last line throws me off a bit.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I don't know how much this will help you guys but i'll post the Japanese lines from the trailer.

Cloud: *sees Sephiroth* It's not possible
Sephiroth: Cloud, please lend me your power *extends hand*
Sephiroth again: Run, escape, survive...
Cloud: Stop messing around (in a "fuck outta here" kind of way)
Sephiroth: Don't forget about me

In my opinion Sephiroth's lines have nothing to do with Zack, but that last line throws me off a bit.

This is why after hearing the Japanese lines I wasn't as convinced that it might've been a reference to something Zack said. I took the whole "Don't forget about me" combined with the English "Hold on to that hatred" as being both ways of motivating Cloud's dogged pursuit of Sephiroth and semi-representative of how he experiences the pull of Reunion just drawing him continually towards Sephiroth based on the concept of hunting him down. This is all laying the groundwork for the, "You're nothing but a puppet." reveal later on that's gonna plunge Cloud into a full existential crisis.



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