TLS GFX

[Shademp]

[*]If you take a pen and paper and can structure the front page in any way you'd like - I mean really using your crayons within the space of the content box - how would you structure it? Try to really think outside the box, and not let what is already there color your thoughts. (This is hard!) Try to keep in mind that "less is more" when doing it. Can you get away with, say, a 5 word menu and only 5 other links other than said menu? 5 + 5 means you're already presenting the reader with 10 different options. Can you narrow those options for them? How can you categorize the content to achieve this?

I will strive for efficiency and try to categorize information in the most intuitive way. I am still figuring out the different "categories" for all title-specific content and these questions will no doubt occupy my mind further down the road especially when we produce more content. At least the multi-index pages in the middle are easy to edit, but the surrounding front page layout is more difficult.

[*]Do all of the topics you've put in those prototypes draw the same amount of interest from the public? Like say, the Audiobooks probably gets way more hits than info on Dirge of Cerebus. And they are now linked in a similar way. Maybe the content should be linked according to the interest they gather? I know Yop can find out what search words gets people into TLS - also specifically what lets them find the articles. Maybe that is a hint of what the site should focus on to get more publicity?

No doubt especially Before Crisis & Dirge of Cerberus will not be clicked on by many. But I can't imagine how these things should be linked "according to interest". Maybe have these section headers be smaller and more clumped together? But that would be ugly and inconsistent in my mind. There may be wisdom in your advice however I can't visualize a different system.
"Official FFVII stuff to the left, fan-made stuff to the right, site-info via the dropdown menus". My mind is stuck with this build. =/

[*]Tags -- is it more interesting to use Tags instead of waterfall-lined structure of the content? Tags are very much integrated in Wordpress now.

Although tags may be useful for increasing site traffic, the thing is that I want TLS to move away from its blog-like structure.
So far, all content has been made as "News Posts". This means 'junk' on those pages; the top has links to the previous and next news article and the bottom has this list of categories and tags.

To me, regardless of traffic issues, this is not how a site should present its material. "Posts" are "News", while "Pages" (which have so far been underused) are Content. The site should work in the way so that people make newsposts about new site material, but from that newspost link to the actual content page.

Pages do not use tags or categories. But I'd rather present the content like a "normal" site, rather than making the reader feel like they are simply browsing through news archives.

Visually I am not sure how you mean that tags would replace the "waterfall-lined structure of content". So far I've referred to tags as they are written in newsposts on the bottom of those pages but perhaps you are talking about different tags.
Maybe if you draw/write an example, I can understand for sure what you mean.

[*]Ever thought of letting a Search bar be a bigger part of the layout? There is a general theory saying the content a person want should never be more than 2 clicks away. If a person are having problems finding what they're looking for (because there isn't a search bar, tags, or the content tree is confusing) they're more likely to get frustrated, give up and then leave. A lot of times the reader has a different view on which categories a subject belongs in. Instead of trying to point the reader down a road - why not let him/ her decide themselves which road they want to take? This is also re: tags. (I know there has been issues with searches making the server CPU hit the roof, so there could be challenges. This might be prevented with some tweaking though.)

That "2 clicks away" theory is in fact one I've been striving towards, even without prior studies or experience with the matter of content structure. The present plans, with the section headers leading to multi-index pages, inevitably makes the process be
First click - Scroll down - Second click
or
First click - Click quick-link - Third click

A search bar was included just to the right sidebar in earlier front page drafts.
The problem is again the added differentiation between Posts (News) and Pages (Content). (Eventually all old Posts which act as content, will be replaced in Page format.)
A search bar, from what Yop implied earlier via PM, looks for one or the other, news or content.
So if we introduce a search bar early on before we've made sure that all content is in the form of Pages, we will have the problem of deciding whether it should search for News or Pages.

My wish of course is for a front page Search bar to look for actual content. People should not have to look through News Archives, unless they really want to in which case they enter the Browse Archives option via the "CONTENT" dropdown menu. Perhaps the name should be changed to "Browse News" instead...

 

[Fangu]

"Official FFVII stuff to the left, fan-made stuff to the right, site-info via the dropdown menus". My mind is stuck with this build.

See, it never struck me that that was the intention... maybe I'm just daft, but really. I had no idea.

Although tags may be useful for increasing site traffic, the thing is that I want TLS to move away from its blog-like structure.

There is nothing blog like about it. A lot of news sites use tag clouds and the likes.

So far, all content has been made as "News Posts". This means 'junk' on those pages; the top has links to the previous and next news article and the bottom has this list of categories and tags.

To me, regardless of traffic issues, this is not how a site should present its material. "Posts" are "News", while "Pages" (which have so far been underused) are Content. The site should work in the way so that people make newsposts about new site material, but from that newspost link to the actual content page.

Pages do not use tags or categories. But I'd rather present the content like a "normal" site, rather than making the reader feel like they are simply browsing through news archives.

Again, what you just wrote there is just a bunch of blah blah to me. Posts is news and pages are -- huh? You're forgetting that as a reader I DON'T CARE! All I want to do is read something interesting. Also, you're letting WP's structure limit your thinking. The way of using 'pages' and 'posts' is really a divide set up for blog use, and blog use only. You don't have to let this way of dividing the material affect your thinking. If there was no such thing as 'pages' and 'posts' but that everything was a post or everything was a page, would you structure it differently?

Also, I think you have a much better relationship with text than the average person. What I see as "wall of text critting me for damage", you see as "ooh, text, I'll start on the top and read to the bottom". Most people don't read web pages, they just browse them for interesting content.

Visually I am not sure how you mean that tags would replace the "waterfall-lined structure of content". So far I've referred to tags as they are written in newsposts on the bottom of those pages but perhaps you are talking about different tags.
Maybe if you draw/write an example, I can understand for sure what you mean.

Even better, I'll try to come up with some links.

Also, here's an example of a news theme I've used:

I think if you're set on the whole idea of separating 'news' and 'content', we're on two different planets. What happens when your news get old? What are they then? How do you archive them? Sorry but this way of structuring "news" is so old school and outdated to me it sorta make me a little sad, and that is why I'm so much against it. Just because something has a date, doesn't make it 'news'. Just think about it - what separates an article from a piece of news? What if you can bump an article when it's been updated, would that be sufficient? Take this as an example, what makes this news and not content?

And sorry if I come across as rude, I'm struggling with some Java crap that is eating me up from the inside out. Also I'm provoking you intentionally of course.

 

[Shademp]

There is nothing blog like about it. A lot of news sites use tag clouds and the likes.

I am fine with tags for News; articles enlightening about recent releases, events etc.

But my goal all along has been to make TLS into a Final Fantasy VII Compendium.
I have specified this in the Site Goals section. When I wrote and presented it in the Site Staff sub-forum, nobody had any objections and in fact the other staff expressed approval.
TLS is not solely a "News Site" for me. It is a guide to content.

If there was no such thing as 'pages' and 'posts' but that everything was a post or everything was a page, would you structure it differently?

If there was no difference, in the sense that News Posts did not have
1) the <-previous article
-> next article links
2) The comments at the bottom.
3) The list of tags at the bottom
then my vision for the site would remain the same. All it would mean is less work since both article types would be the same. However having a News article not have a comment section appears quite odd to me, so I don't see the difference between the two article types going away.

You do not see a wiki entry, or say a Chrono Compendium article riddled with tags, visitor comments and random links to old news.
So yes, I am pretty much trying to create wiki-like structures inside a WordPress site. Then why not create a wiki site? Because TLS already exists as an FFVII resource, we just need to improve it and make it more friendly for franchise documentation.

I think if you're set on the whole idea of separating 'news' and 'content', we're on two different planets. What happens when your news get old? What are they then? How do you archive them? Sorry but this way of structuring "news" is so old school and outdated to me it sorta make me a little sad, and that is why I'm so much against it. Just because something has a date, doesn't make it 'news'. Just think about it - what separates an article from a piece of news? What if you can bump an article when it's been updated, would that be sufficient? Take this as an example, what makes this news and not content?

That article is just a "Happy Birthday" post. It is not content, as it is not a guide to the FFVII franchise in any way nor does it provide any in-depth analysis.

When news get old, they become "old news". Again, News to me is just a way to enlighten visitors about recent updates, FFVII events, forum events, etc. If anybody is interested in the timeline of events, which very few people will be, they may simply Browse the Archives.

That is not to say I am not interested in cataloguing the timeline of FFVII related events. Quite the contrary, it is part of my goal to have the site present material about the time before and around a title's release plus all the events related to it.
So, in the future, when clicking on the ADVENT CHILDREN section header, one of the content features via the middle will be to read about the early screenings of the movie, the Virtual World event and so on.

Put quite bluntly, "Old News" is just accumulating junk to me, which I will however use to compile information about any FFVII title's history.


However, I DO approve of pages/content showing the date in which they were published and most recently edited. It shows that extra bit of honesty about how updated any given article is, so if a visitor notices that an article they'll pay even more attention to if it is outdated. If they see something needs changing due to new FFVII information, then they can simply contact the site about it.


Again, I have always envisioned TLS as a hub for FFVII content. I don't see it as, or want it to be, like for example Destructoid, a site that indeed does not differentiate betweens News and Content. Philosophical, witty, analytical articles are posted there always with the intent of sparking discussion and making the visitor feel actively involved. I can see the importance on a site such as Destructoid to organise and archive News, because there they ARE the content.

This of course leads me to admit that *some* articles may have to be saved as Posts. Coming features in the "ESSAYS & ANALYSIS" section may deserve a Comments section, rather than always having a forum thread attached to it.

 

[Pixel]

This isnt a huge deal, but who put this thread in fan creations? This is site stuff...


I agree with pretty much everything fangu says... i just dont have the technical knowledge to design anything properly. I'll leave it to you guys to figure lis stuff out. lol

 

[Pixel]

Not sure whats going on with this, or what is needed for the menu, but here ya go

 

[Flintlock]

I've said this before, but the text still doesn't stand out enough, in my opinion. I know it's an inevitable problem with using gradients that some text will stand out more than others, but there should be a way around it. Making sure the text is easily visible is just as important as having something that looks nice.

 

[Pixel]

... hmmm. I dont know if its just that my screen is different, or if its just that i've stared at it alot, but its readable to me. Either way, Ive experimented with different effects and opacities, and thats the best i can do. It will work when is all set up with the rollover

 

[Shademp]

How would it look if "CONTENT" and "ABOUT" were spelled in a slightly darker tone, while keeping the two to the left the same? Would it contrast too much? Maybe have each category go from dark to light, left to right? Sort of like a "gradient" effect but with each separate word/category.

CONTENT ABOUT COMMUNITY HIGHLIGHTS

 

[Pixel]

It looks more unreadable when darker. That is with pure white. Before i had tinted blue-green. Can you honestly tell me you cant read that?

 

[Shademp]

It is readable. The nitpicking arises from how especially the "ABOUT" category blends with the lifestream effect. Even more so when highlighted. It is that single letter, "B", that takes the most damage. I also have trouble reading "CONTENT" when it is highlighted. Too much brightness.

If it was me, I'd decrease the "highlighted" brightness just a little little bit. But ultimately it is up to you.

 

[Tifabelle]

Would there be a way to shift the banner image so that the lifestream going through the B is in between the words?

Other than the B, it looks fine to me.

 

[Pixel]

Hows this?

 

[Shademp]

That is better. CONTENT and the B in ABOUT are more readable than before.

 

[Fangu]

Okay, should we do like a separate thread for the Front Page project, or should we keep posting in here? I've made some changes to the test site and I'd like to log them somewhere

 

[Shademp]

Okay, should we do like a separate thread for the Front Page project, or should we keep posting in here? I've made some changes to the test site and I'd like to log them somewhere

I vote for a separate Front Page Project thread, so from my point of view you can go ahead and make one. =)

 

[Pixel]

Yes, and not in Compilation Fan Creations... this stuff never should have been put in there

 

[Fangu]

Forum News & Information? Feedback?
HALP I never poast there

And then delete this from the GFX thread

 

[Shademp]

Though it has been sort of overrun lately, I would post it in the "Active Projects" section.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I moved this to somewhere more appropriate.

edit: looks like Shademp had the same idea I did.