Vincent Valentine - The "John Wick" of FFVII Remake?

[Celes777]

Lots of great responses and just to remind everyone, this thought of mine was a huge "what if?" in my head so there really is no right or wrong answer, especially if it involves what changes the remake might take on Vincent's character in the future.

I just wish they keep his face as the AC or DC model...

 

[jazzflower92]

We simply don't know how many missions Vincent has completed or missed before, because it was never mentioned.

I don't see Vincent failed protecting Lucrecia and Hojo, because those two fxxxed themselves up . Like, they wanted to do some voodoo to themselves. You can't really interfere with that

If we say Vincent wasn't able yo save Lucrecia, then yeah...he didn't try to stop Gast, L and Hojo early enough. He doubted their choice and accepted it for a while and only took action later.

But I'm not sure Vincent allowed himself to be shot...I mean yes, he was careless/bad enough that Hojo shot him, but he didn't intentionally want to be shot...

I like the idea that Vincent has a reputation being an excellent Turk, but a legend...iuno. Does his reputation among the Turks surpass that of Sephiroth among SOLDIERs?

I also don't understand why would like, the top killer/spy/agent/whatever be sent to be a bodyguard. Isn't that a waste???

I always have the theory that Vincent wanted out or he wanted to find his father or some shit. But thats completely my imagination

If he failed to protect Hojo, then nothing of value would be lost.

 

[Kai Schulen]

I'm starting to think that the Turks are not as elite as the fandom has hyped them up to be.

If he failed to protect Hojo, then nothing of value would be lost.

If we didn't have Hojo, we wouldn't have the plot of VII, would we?



...but it still would mean that Genesis and Angeal would still be around, as would Hollander and Project G. This would make for a pretty interesting what if AU for VII, if Project G was the basis for SOLDIER.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Trainer Red, outrageous! They are elite. They are super-elite. They are the creme de la creme. That is clearly obvious from all their highly successful missions against Avalanche. One of the conditions of Turk recruitment is being highly photogenic. Vincent passed this requirement as well as the marksmanship requirement. It was only after he was hired that his - ahem - deficits became apparent.

 

[Clement Rage]

Having a highly inappropriate unprofessional crush/relationship is practically a Turk tradition. If anything, Vincent is a step up, because he managed not to compromise his duties for the sake of a) an active terrorist or, b) his direct superior.

Re his skills, it's not like 'taking down attack helicopters with a revolver' is such an embarrassing performance in Dirge.

Most likely, though, the Turks have no clue who he was or what happened to him. Not because he wasn't skilled, but because he was assigned to all the super classified stuff like Project S.

Edit: Also, if Rufus suddenly decided to shoot one of the Turks bodyguarding him, it doesn't seem so impossible they wouldn't be prepared for it. Hojo is a very dangerous man who is often underestimated, usually to someone's regret.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I'm not denying any of that, although we can't really assume that what he's capable of in DC is what he was capable of when he was a young Turk. I know Vincent is super-cool and a major fan favourite and all, but there must be some kind of trope name for the awesomeness-creep which assumes that because Vincent is fabulous now (after however many surgical interventions from Lucrecia) he must always have been some super fabulous superstar held in awe by all and sundry. No. Personally, I find that boring and overdone. I prefer the idea he was just a regular guy, a rank and file Turk who got assigned this mission, did okay in it, fell in love with a girl who was out of his league, had something terrible happen to him, and came out the other end as the super-natural Vincent we all known and love. And while he was lying in the coffin, everybody just forgot about him, because he wasn't anything that special to begin with. He's a fairly ordinary guy who's been elevated from his ordinariness into the ranks of superhero-dom.... But at what cost?

 

[Celes777]

I do like the idea that Vincent used to be a regular guy, a good Turk but nothing out of ordinary.

But I think SE's intention is to make him a unprecedented legendary Turk. Which will be nice in the Remake too

 

[Kai Schulen]

I prefer the idea of Vincent being an ordinary Turk who failed at his mission, because it draws another parallel to Cloud -- both being failures who became badasses in their own right.

Re his skills, it's not like 'taking down attack helicopters with a revolver' is such an embarrassing performance in Dirge.

Oh, no, I wasn't saying that Vincent's not badass in Dirge, I was poking fun at Dirge's horrible and awkward gameplay. I have high hopes for the different gameplay styles in the Remake, but sometimes I look at Dirge sitting on my bookshelf and I shudder at the thought of replaying it...

But speaking of gameplay and gameplay differences between Barret, Yuffie and Vincent, I'd imagine it like this:

• Barret's is all about the physical DPS. Which is fine, since you have him from the start of the game.
• Yuffie can easily switch between long range and short range, since she's a ninja and all. She'll be the fragile speedster stereotype.
• Vincent's that weird magical/physical hybrid and elemental: he can imbue his bullets with magic and hit for elemental weakness for critical hits. (I'm basing Vincent's playstyle off of FFRK, where he's a weird physical/magical hybrid, but mostly leaning toward magical damage.)

Conceptualizing Vincent's transformed state in battle's a bit tricky though. I'd imagine it would be similar to how you can trigger it at will in Dirge, so long as you had the limit breaker item in stock, but only you can't control him in battle like you do in OG ....I'd think it be kinda cool if there was a sidequest where you get to fight Vincent in his transformed state so that you can control his transformed state in battle, but eh, maybe that's a bit too much?

 

[Roger]

I'm not denying any of that, although we can't really assume that what he's capable of in DC is what he was capable of when he was a young Turk. I know Vincent is super-cool and a major fan favourite and all, but there must be some kind of trope name for the awesomeness-creep which assumes that because Vincent is fabulous now (after however many surgical interventions from Lucrecia) he must always have been some super fabulous superstar held in awe by all and sundry. No. Personally, I find that boring and overdone. I prefer the idea he was just a regular guy, a rank and file Turk who got assigned this mission, did okay in it, fell in love with a girl who was out of his league, had something terrible happen to him, and came out the other end as the super-natural Vincent we all known and love. And while he was lying in the coffin, everybody just forgot about him, because he wasn't anything that special to begin with. He's a fairly ordinary guy who's been elevated from his ordinariness into the ranks of superhero-dom.... But at what cost?

I don't know any regular ordinary guys in the Turks now. Nor do I think Lucretia or Hojo were the ones that made him super handsome after he was shot.

 

[Kai Schulen]

I don't know any regular ordinary guys in the Turks now. Nor do I think Lucretia or Hojo were the ones that made him super handsome after he was shot.

Licorice didn't say that Hojo and Lucretia did plastic surgery on Vincent to make him handsome. Fabulous doesn't have to necessarily apply to looks, it can apply to other things too.

....Like Vincent's sense of fashion, his badass aura, being stoic and mysterious, his tendency to be all dramatic without knowing it, his skills, stuff like that.


(at least, this is what I think Licorice was saying.)

 

[Celes777]

Here is the ultimate question: did Vincent dress himself like that?

I mean, man he is sick(both awesome and weird) if he did

Those shoes though.

 

[Roger]

Licorice didn't say that Hojo and Lucretia did plastic surgery on Vincent to make him handsome. Fabulous doesn't have to necessarily apply to looks, it can apply to other things too.

....Like Vincent's sense of fashion, his badass aura, being stoic and mysterious, his tendency to be all dramatic without knowing it, his skills, stuff like that.


(at least, this is what I think Licorice was saying.)

I don't think Lucretia did surgical interventions to give him any of those things either. I think Vincent was in Lucretia's league already given that Hojo is.

 

[Kai Schulen]

I wasn't saying it was surgically implanted in him either. Those habits of his came after he was augmented, when he did that 30 year nap.

Ultimately, I think what me and Licorice are trying to say is that we think that Vincent's aura and appeal was something he picked up after 30 years; Vincent was a normal Turk who became a superpowered badass when he got shot by Hojo and experimented on by Lucretia, whereas fandom's opinion of Vincent was that he was legendary badass from the get go and then got even more badass after getting shot by Hojo and experimented on by Lucretia.

As for ordinary people in the Turks, well....don't the normal Turks themselves apply for being ordinary? Reno, Rude, Tseng, Elena and all those other Turks are just normal people who haven't been experimented on, and as far as we know, none of them can transform into chainsaw wielding maniacs, etc.

 

[Roger]

I wasn't saying it was surgically implanted in him either. Those habits of his came after he was augmented, when he did that 30 year nap.

Ultimately, I think what me and Licorice are trying to say is that we think that Vincent's aura and appeal was something he picked up after 30 years; Vincent was a normal Turk who became a superpowered badass when he got shot by Hojo and experimented on by Lucretia, whereas fandom's opinion of Vincent was that he was legendary badass from the get go and then got even more badass after getting shot by Hojo and experimented on by Lucretia.

As for ordinary people in the Turks, well....don't the normal Turks themselves apply for being ordinary? Reno, Rude, Tseng, Elena and all those other Turks are just normal people who haven't been experimented on, and as far as we know, none of them can transform into chainsaw wielding maniacs, etc.

unexperimented on yes, I feel the most recent trailer does away with any pretense the lack of graphical detail in the original game allowed you to have that they are ordinary. You'd pick the Turks out of a crowd of a hundred by their looks and actions in Midgar or anywhere else.

 

[Kai Schulen]

Isn't that because of character design? You can also pick Biggs, Wedge and Jessie out of a crowd of a hundred just by appearance alone, and they're members of a terrorist organization.

 

[Roger]

Isn't that because of character design? You can also pick Biggs, Wedge and Jessie out of a crowd of a hundred just by appearance alone, and they're members of a terrorist organization.

Biggs, Jessie and Wedge I can still believe have a normal day when not on missions.

 

[Kai Schulen]

I think the Turks can also look like ordinary citizens too if they can get actual legit vacation days from Shinra and dressed down for the occasion. Cissnei looks like a normal young woman in her beach wear, yeah?

I would imagine that being a member of Shinra's intelligence agency means that you don't get real days off, much like how Turks can't legit retire/quit their job in peace.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Lucrecia was out of Vincent's league in terms of her intelligence. Like if they're both 10 in looks but he's only a 4 in the brains department (and let's be honest, he is not the fastest bullet in the chamber) while she's let's say an 8, that makes her an 18 to his 14 so that's out of his league. Now Hojo may only be a 4 in the looks department but he's at least a 13 or 14 in the brains department. Plus, Hojo had game back in the day and Vincent... just didn't.

 

[Kai Schulen]

I thought the feelings between Lu and Vince were mutual, but she rejected him cause of the guilt she felt for his dad's death? Or am I not remembering it right?


I feel like I'm going to end up replaying DoC and I don't wanna.

 

[Roger]

Lucrecia was out of Vincent's league in terms of her intelligence. Like if they're both 10 in looks but he's only a 4 in the brains department (and let's be honest, he is not the fastest bullet in the chamber) while she's let's say an 8, that makes her an 18 to his 14 so that's out of his league. Now Hojo may only be a 4 in the looks department but he's at least a 13 or 14 in the brains department. Plus, Hojo had game back in the day and Vincent... just didn't.

I don't think sleeping in a coffin gave him a new vocabulary or way of speaking or flair, that's musclememory he can't have had time to practice. I don't like the idea of 30 years doing, hearing and seeing nothing gave him more then the 27 years of life outside in the world. If he was hopeless back then he's probably hopeless now, with superpowers and a new outfit.

 

[Kai Schulen]

Well, if Cloud was stuck in a tube for 4+ years and was stuck in a mako poisoning induced coma for a year on the run and still came out of it with super fighting abilities, there's nothing to say that the same can't be applied to Vincent, right?



......the thought of Vincent doing some physical therapy after waking up from his 30 year repose is pretty funny though.

 

[Celes777]

I thought Lucrecia used to like Vincent's dad am I the only one...

 

[Roger]

Well, if Cloud was stuck in a tube for 4+ years and was stuck in a mako poisoning induced coma for a year on the run and still came out of it with super fighting abilities, there's nothing to say that the same can't be applied to Vincent, right?



......the thought of Vincent doing some physical therapy after waking up from his 30 year repose is pretty funny though.

Yes, I'm not talking about superpowers. Outwardly 21-years old, Cloud isn't really more emotionally mature then Yuffie or Red XIII, I consider that a big part of character. Even then tho, his imprisonment wasn't like Vincent. He was brought meals every day. By scientists that talked, along with other prisoners. The year on the road was also spent in someone's company that talked which had an impression on him. Vincent had nothing but silence, which allegedly gave him a a new sense of dramatics, speaking, aura and appeal. 0 social interaction made his days of not having any game past tense. Why?

Vincent either is or is not superboring but he probably hasn't had an opportunity to change that in the coffin.

 

[Kai Schulen]

I thought Lucrecia used to like Vincent's dad am I the only one...

Lu having a thing for older men would explain a lot of things, actually.

Yes, I'm not talking about superpowers. Outwardly 21-years old, Cloud isn't really more emotionally mature then Yuffie or Red XIII, I consider that a big part of character. Even then tho, his imprisonment wasn't like Vincent. He was brought meals every day. By scientists that talked, along with other prisoners. The year on the road was also spent in someone's company that talked which had an impression on him. Vincent had nothing but silence, which allegedly gave him a a new sense of dramatics, speaking, aura and appeal. 0 social interaction made his days of not having any game past tense. Why?

Vincent either is or is not superboring but he probably hasn't had an opportunity to change that in the coffin.

And whose to say that spending those 30 years alone in a coffin wouldn't have given him those personality tics? It's not like he was comatose or brain dead during those years. People in prolonged isolation do weird shit, develop weird habits, etc.

 

[Celes777]

Lu having a thing for older men would explain a lot of things, actually.

I don't remember Hojo being older. The three of them were supposed to be around the same age (I think). But yeah Hojo looked 50 yrs old and I bet he looked like that right after he was born lol