Weiss’ Deaths from the virus and as Omega Weiss

[siberian74]

Hello guys,

I have a few questions regarding Weiss, pardon me for asking but I was really confused and curious. Weiss’ “deaths” strikes me as odd, I think even though Weiss was Deepground’s strongest, Hojo was able to possessed Weiss and taking control of him completely with no such trouble. Is it because Weiss was already weakened by the virus towards the end?


Question #1: Why did Weiss continue to summon Omega?

From what I understood after watching the clip “Weiss’ Last Breath” from Youtube, summoning Omega was Hojo’s idea all along and not of Weiss’. Yet after Nero merges with his older brother, it seems Weiss still carries out Hojo’s plan of destroying Gaia through Omega. Or is that a different Weiss/Entity that Vincent (in Chaos form) had fought and killed?


Question #2: Is Weiss really dead or not?

This is very confusing for me, Vincent and Yuffie saw Weiss’ lifeless body on his throne room; yet there is this televised broadcast of a Hojo-possessed Weiss that Vincent and Reeve saw beforehand. Then Nero was supposedly taking orders from Weiss, so I assume Weiss is alive but only mind possessed by Hojo during the game’s timeline. Did he die really from the virus then?

Another thing, Weiss appeared to be dead after Vincent defeated him, but when Nero appeared and talked to his older brother, though weak, it seems Weiss had been “cured” of the virus. Does it mean that by controlling Weiss’ body, Hojo managed to override the fatal effect of Weiss’ time-controlled virus?

Hope to hear some of your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah I don't know any of this either. Someone answer this!

 

[Dark and Divine]

Well, let's see:

Hello guys,

I have a few questions regarding Weiss, pardon me for asking but I was really confused and curious. Weiss’ “deaths” strikes me as odd, I think even though Weiss was Deepground’s strongest, Hojo was able to possessed Weiss and taking control of him completely with no such trouble. Is it because Weiss was already weakened by the virus towards the end?

I don't know if the virus had anything to do with it. the idea that i got is that the virus' effects would be immediate and not gradual, so Weiss would be struck down immediately and not grdually weakened.

Weiss was indeed the strongest in Deepground, but that was physical power. His mind could be as easy to control as anyone else's.

And he was performing an Synaptic Net Dive (SND) to find a cure to the virus when Hojo possessed him, so maybe when someone performs an SND, his/her mind becomes more vulnerable.

Question #1: Why did Weiss continue to summon Omega?

From what I understood after watching the clip “Weiss’ Last Breath” from Youtube, summoning Omega was Hojo’s idea all along and not of Weiss’. Yet after Nero merges with his older brother, it seems Weiss still carries out Hojo’s plan of destroying Gaia through Omega. Or is that a different Weiss/Entity that Vincent (in Chaos form) had fought and killed?

Maybe Weiss didn't had a choice. Maybe Hojo had already complete Omega's summoning before his mind was vanquished and Weiss didn't had any control after that.

Chaos was able to manifest through Vincent (its host) without being summoned. Omega could have done the same with Weiss after Hojo's mind faded away.

But, in truth, this was not a normal Omega.

To summon a "pure" Omega, the host's body must be pure and untainted by any kind of "impurities". That's why Hojo only wanted people who hadn't any contact with Jenova cells.

When Nero fused himself with Weiss, his darkness tainted Omega's host, thus Omega itself.

So the Omega that appeared over Midgar was not the "real" Omega, but a dark and evil version of it.

Question #2: Is Weiss really dead or not?

This is very confusing for me, Vincent and Yuffie saw Weiss’ lifeless body on his throne room; yet there is this televised broadcast of a Hojo-possessed Weiss that Vincent and Reeve saw beforehand. Then Nero was supposedly taking orders from Weiss, so I assume Weiss is alive but only mind possessed by Hojo during the game’s timeline. Did he die really from the virus then?

Probably not. Maybe the virus was never activated. The virus would only activate itself if it didn't received a signal from the restrictor for three days, so maybe Hojo, after taking control of Weiss, was able to duplicate the signal or override it completely.

Another thing, Weiss appeared to be dead after Vincent defeated him, but when Nero appeared and talked to his older brother, though weak, it seems Weiss had been “cured” of the virus. Does it mean that by controlling Weiss’ body, Hojo managed to override the fatal effect of Weiss’ time-controlled virus?

As I mentioned above, yes, Hojo probably was able to override the virus.

 

[Makoeyes987]

When Nero used his darkness to corrupt the pure Lifestream in Weiss, Omega was tainted and lost control. Remember in the game how Weiss/Hojo was able to tap into Omega's power without transforming and being in complete control? That all went to hell due to Nero and Omega went berserk, just like Chaos did when the Protomateria was ripped out of Vincent.

When Nero put his darkness in Weiss, and Weiss disappeared, Omega took control of Weiss's body and thus went and tried to destroy everything. That's why Omega continued sucking the lifestream.

 

[siberian74]

Well, let's see:

I don't know if the virus had anything to do with it. the idea that i got is that the virus' effects would be immediate and not gradual, so Weiss would be struck down immediately and not grdually weakened.

Weiss was indeed the strongest in Deepground, but that was physical power. His mind could be as easy to control as anyone else's.

And he was performing an Synaptic Net Dive (SND) to find a cure to the virus when Hojo possessed him, so maybe when someone performs an SND, his/her mind becomes more vulnerable.

[FONT=&quot]Oh I see it then, I initially thought that Weiss was really that powerful (since he was dubbed as the strongest in Deepground) that he was almost untouchable, but you’re right in saying that doing an SND would made him vulnerable to mind possession. Poor Weiss, I can only imagine his shock when he saw Hojo’s holographic presence upfront ::snickers::
[/FONT]

Maybe Weiss didn't had a choice. Maybe Hojo had already complete Omega's summoning before his mind was vanquished and Weiss didn't had any control after that.

Chaos was able to manifest through Vincent (its host) without being summoned. Omega could have done the same with Weiss after Hojo's mind faded away.

But, in truth, this was not a normal Omega.

To summon a "pure" Omega, the host's body must be pure and untainted by any kind of "impurities". That's why Hojo only wanted people who hadn't any contact with Jenova cells.

When Nero fused himself with Weiss, his darkness tainted Omega's host, thus Omega itself.

So the Omega that appeared over Midgar was not the "real" Omega, but a dark and evil version of it.

[FONT=&quot]Now I understand why that’s a different Omega compared to the first one that was shown aboard the Shera. ::scratches chin::[/FONT]

Probably not. Maybe the virus was never activated. The virus would only activate itself if it didn't received a signal from the restrictor for three days, so maybe Hojo, after taking control of Weiss, was able to duplicate the signal or override it completely.

As I mentioned above, yes, Hojo probably was able to override the virus.

[FONT=&quot]Oh wow, thanks so much for clarifying those confusing scenes/plots holes for me. I really get confused especially with the Omega-Weiss stuff. I think DOC is a good game but it could had been better if these points had been explained/stated clearly.

[/FONT] Thanks so much for the help.

 

[siberian74]

When Nero used his darkness to corrupt the pure Lifestream in Weiss, Omega was tainted and lost control. Remember in the game how Weiss/Hojo was able to tap into Omega's power without transforming and being in complete control? That all went to hell due to Nero and Omega went berserk, just like Chaos did when the Protomateria was ripped out of Vincent.

When Nero put his darkness in Weiss, and Weiss disappeared, Omega took control of Weiss's body and thus went and tried to destroy everything. That's why Omega continued sucking the lifestream.

[FONT=&quot]Umm - so that means Weiss was not that entirely evil. No wonder Hojo panicked back then, since he originally wanted Omega to act as a vessel to leave Gaia and become immortal. I wonder then what happens to Nero, if he’s still inside Weiss or was decimated along with the Dark Omega.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I think Weiss’ achilles heel was that his vulnerable when his doing an SND (as pointed out by Dark and Divine), for me it almost eerily familiar with those of Sephiroth. Sephiroth was an epitome of a perfect SOLDIER, except when it comes for the sanity part.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Well, I guess I just have to wait for the next FFVII compilation installment and see what happens next. I would love to see a head on battle between Sephiroth and Weiss. It might be wishful thinking on my part though.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Thanks for clearing that part for me as well.[/FONT]

 

[OWA-2]

Let me see if I understand...
The original Omega was supposed to suck all the Lifestream of the planet and fly away into space, right?
And the 'evil' version of Omega we see in DoC started sucking all the Lifestream of the planet, and tried to fly away into space(after Weiss got beaten) but was stopped by Vincent, right?


So, excluding their physical-appearance/design and the way both were, or should have been, summoned(the natural way for the original one, and the forced way for it's evil counterpart), could someone please show me what makes the 'evil' Omega so... Evil?

 

[Makoeyes987]

As explained..

Omega

「 DC 」

Born from the Lifestream when the planet is on the brink of death, it takes all the life Chaos has gathered to the next planet. Originally meant to preserve the cycle of life in the universe, but when forcefully created, it is a dangerous being that takes all life on the planet and flies off into space.

And also...

You could take it [think] that the Omega that was created when Nero and Weiss become one is because of Hojo when Nero was being distracted. Omega is born from the pure Lifestream, so does that mean the Omega we see in DC is completely different form than the original Omega [that was described in Lucrecia’s reports]?

Chiba: It is a completely different object than the original Omega that was expected [to be born out of natural causes]. As a result of being a completely different object than its original form, you can also say that the way in which this artificial Omega was created [the reversal process] brings harm and devastation.

[This question is basically asking the difference between the real Omega and the artificial Omega that Hojo tried to replicate.]

Basically, an artificially summoned Omega becomes a monster that malevolently tries to steal all the life away for no reason other than to do it, and incite destruction. Because its corrupted and artificial.

 

[OWA-2]

As explained..



And also...



Basically, an artificially summoned Omega becomes a monster that malevolently tries to steal all the life away for no reason other than to do it, and incite destruction. Because its corrupted and artificial.

Thankyou for answering my question. But...
That still doesn't change the fact they both were created to do the same thing.
If the original Omega was summoned, it would start absorbing the Lifestream until the planet was dry, and fly into space(as explained in a cutscene of DoC).
But if the artificial Omega was summoned, something that actually happened, it would start absorbing the Lifestream until the planet was dry, and fly into space(as we see at the end of DoC).
Either way, humanity would be fucked.

My real problem with the existence of this artificial Omega, is that it is completely redundant and unecessary to the plot. They could have replaced it with the original Omega and nothing would have changed.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Thankyou for answering my question. But...
That still doesn't change the fact they both were created to do the same thing.
If the original Omega was summoned, it would start absorbing the Lifestream until the planet was dry, and fly into space(as explained in a cutscene of DoC).
But if the artificial Omega was summoned, something that actually happened, it would start absorbing the Lifestream until the planet was dry, and fly into space(as we see at the end of DoC).
Either way, humanity would be fucked.

My real problem with the existence of this artificial Omega, is that it is completely redundant and unecessary to the plot. They could have replaced it with the original Omega and nothing would have changed.

The original Omega wouldn't have just arbitrarily appear to steal the lifestream for no reason. The corrupted Omega was literally forced out into existence, and thanks to it being corrupt, it began the process despite their being no true disaster, and it didn't even finish. It just took what it could and left.

 

[Tetsujin]

The original Omega wouldn't have just arbitrarily appear to steal the lifestream for no reason.

The reason would've been the world ending, which was what DG was simulating by having countless people return into the separated portion of the lifestream they had in their reactor.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The reason would've been the world ending, which was what DG was simulating by having countless people return into the separated portion of the lifestream they had in their reactor.

Yeah, they simulated it, but once the real Omega realized there was no crisis, and its invocation was unwarranted, it wouldn't have then tried to BE the crisis and steal all the lifestream and leave a dead planet behind.

 

[Tetsujin]

Yeah, they simulated it, but once the real Omega realized there was no crisis, and its invocation was unwarranted, it wouldn't have then tried to BE the crisis and steal all the lifestream and leave a dead planet behind.

Sauce?

 

[Makoeyes987]

The creators just said so, as I've posted. The real Omega wouldn't just jump ship with the planet's blood for no reason and literally try to kill it.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

I say... Is it alright, having this for a thread title?

 

[ForceStealer]

Is there anyone who intends to play DC that hasn't done so yet?

And I'm still not sure about Omega being malevolent, it still seems it was just acting on instinct and in classic "once it's started it cannot be stopped!!" fashion, it didn't matter that it was called incorrectly. The Ultimania just says that its a dangerous being since it takes all the life off the planet, not that the incorrect summon caused it to be evil.

Nero's corruption could have done anything from changing the physical appearance of the Weapon to make it so that when its connection to the reactors was severed it simply bolted with what it had.
Although that could also simply be a case of its animalistic instinct, when the reactors were cut, it just figured that was all the Lifestream there was. The whole Weapon just struck me as more "mindless" than the others. More device than creature.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Is there anyone who intends to play DC that hasn't done so yet?

I don't think it's that inconceivable that there are people out there who want to play this game, but haven't gotten around to it - or haven't finished it yet (like me, but I already knew what happened. )

It's just that, even if such people stay away from the Dirge section, this thread title will pop up when they check for new posts. Kinda sad, and, IIRC, against TLS forum rules.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I say... Is it alright, having this for a thread title?

The game's over two years old. If you haven't played it yet, then that's too bad.

You're on a Compilation of FFVII forum. Spoilers are going to pop up for games more than two years old. This isn't gamefaqs where we're going to censor every little thing that's obvious now, to the point of it being a no-issue.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And I'm still not sure about Omega being malevolent, it still seems it was just acting on instinct and in classic "once it's started it cannot be stopped!!" fashion, it didn't matter that it was called incorrectly. The Ultimania just says that its a dangerous being since it takes all the life off the planet, not that the incorrect summon caused it to be evil.

Except Omega isn't supposed to be a dangerous being that brings chaos and destruction. That's typical of a being that's malevolent, not a savior. It was corrupted by the stagnant lifestream inside Nero and its false invocation. It's clearly not the true Omega. It's corrupted.

And where is it stated once it started it can't be stopped? Weapons are sentient creatures. They are not robots. They're more than capable of changing their actions if they sense a change is necessary.

Nero's corruption could have done anything from changing the physical appearance of the Weapon to make it so that when its connection to the reactors was severed it simply bolted with what it had.
Although that could also simply be a case of its animalistic instinct, when the reactors were cut, it just figured that was all the Lifestream there was. The whole Weapon just struck me as more "mindless" than the others. More device than creature.

Weapons aren't mindless. The Omega that was born from the tainted Lifestream thanks to Nero isn't the same one. Its dangerous and malevolent. It wasn't about it being confused, it was about it trying to take the lifestream and bolt with it, as explained by it being drilled home that its a being of destruction and harm.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

The game's over two years old. If you haven't played it yet, then that's too bad.

You're own a Compilation of FFVII forum. Spoilers are going to pop up for games more than two years old. This isn't gamefaqs where we're going to censor every little thing that's obvious now, to the point of it being a no-issue.

So... basically... Tough luck for anyone who never had the chance to play the game, or is only just finding out about the Compilation... Nice.

I understand that this is a compilation forum - hell, I've pointed this out before in some other thread, I think... Still, I figured putting spoilers up in thread titles was against the rules, stated in no uncertain terms, but that's clearly a non-issue. (And no, I'm not trying to pick a fight about the way this forum is run.)

 

[Makoeyes987]

So... basically... Tough luck for anyone who never had the chance to play the game, or is only just finding out about the Compilation... Nice.

I understand that this is a compilation forum - hell, I've pointed this out before in some other thread, I think... Still, I figured putting spoilers up in thread titles was against the rules, stated in no uncertain terms, but that's clearly a non-issue. (And no, I'm not trying to pick a fight about the way this forum is run.)

LOL we have articles on the front page that talk about Weiss's "death" and the ending of DC. After three years, it's pretty safe to move DC out of the "spoiler" category on a site that's specifically tailored to discussing the ins and outs of the plot lines of the Compilation of FFVII.

Works of media that aren't the site's focus, are a different story, since you don't come to an FFVII site looking for spoilers on Lost or House, and that would be expressly kept from being spoilered in any way shape or form.

Hell, it's not like anyone's going to even get to play DC multiplayer mode in the first place since the thing's not even going to be released stateside. So how the hell is that even a spoiler in the first place?

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Works of media that aren't the site's focus, are a different story, since you don't come to an FFVII site looking for spoilers on Lost or House, and that would be expressly kept from being spoilered in any way shape or form.

Thank you for clearing that up. As for the rest of your post, I agree, I've made some of those points myself. My objection, however, was solely due to the fact that I'd misunderstood the forum rules concerning spoilers. *ducks out of thread*

 

[Makoeyes987]

Come back here, I'm not through you.

Oh..you're welcome.

 

[ForceStealer]

Weapons aren't mindless. The Omega that was born from the tainted Lifestream thanks to Nero isn't the same one. Its dangerous and malevolent. It wasn't about it being confused, it was about it trying to take the lifestream and bolt with it, as explained by it being drilled home that its a being of destruction and harm.

But wasn't that Hojo's whole plan? He wasn't intending for Nero corrupting Omega but he wanted to trick Omega into coming out and then do its thing. That sounded to me like it could be tricked.

...or is that what he needed the Protomateria for?

 

[Makoeyes987]

But wasn't that Hojo's whole plan? He wasn't intending for Nero corrupting Omega but he wanted to trick Omega into coming out and then do its thing. That sounded to me like it could be tricked.

...or is that what he needed the Protomateria for?

Wrong. Hojo's plan was for Omega to be invoked inside of him. He would literally have Omega infused into his body, and he would take all the lifestream of the planet, become a god, and fly off into space.

That's why Hojo needed the protomateria inside Weiss's body. With it, he'd be able to fully control Omega, have it infused in his body, and basically be like Vincent in terms of Chaos. In full control of the monster within him.

Nero thought that creating Omega and putting it in Weiss would bring Weiss back to life. That's why he went with Hojo's screwy plan in the first place.

tl;dr Hojo wanted to be like Vincent, except with Omega instead of Chaos.