What is Shinra's true motive ?

[S.L.Kerrigan]

While following the current LTD thread, I came across these deleted scenario pieces.
One of them is of particular interest to me, maybe you can help me answer some questions!

-=Kalm Flashback=-
[ In the Basement of the Shinra Manor ]

Sephiroth: “Cloud. That mako reactor is no ordinary power plant. Shinra’s true motive lies elsewhere.”

Cloud: “What do you mean?”

Sephiroth: “The energy that permeates the earth of this planet is no mere energy. Where do you think it comes from in the first place? Where does this substance, unfathomable by our science, originate from? Does it just come from nothing? Does the planet make it? And where does this energy end up? Is it just electricity to power a light? No, it’s not. Shinra started to catch on to its true potential. Their test of that is this mako reactor. And me, as well…”

* The voice saying ‘This isn’t just a reactor!’ which Cloud hears in his mind during the bombing of the #1 mako reactor in the final game originated from this conversation with Sephiroth.

According to you, does this energy only serve to give life?
If so, what does this entity/energy gain by giving life? If the benefit is to grow, what is the interest, the purpose?
What is its true potential?
Wouldn't it be possible that she/it also seeks her/its promised land?



________________________
The building of a theory :

A sudden discovery:
Excerpt from Jacques Demy's movie "Parking" (Youtube)
Did Final Fantasy VII's opening cinematic took inspiration from the movie "Parking" (Jacques Demy) ? (FFF)
Découverte de dernière minute (ff7.fr)
Question to Naora Yusuke (Twitter) Same answer from Kazushige Nojima.

Making assumptions:
Mother (Jenova) == Mother earth/mother nature ? (TLS)
Mother (Jenova) == Mother earth/mother nature ? (FFF)
Mère (Jenova) == mère nature ? (ff7.fr)
Did Jenova left the planet ? (TLS)

Trying to stick to the canon:
Le pouvoir de Jenova (ff7.fr)
Tifa died and came back... (FFF)
D'autres sont morts aussi... (ff7.fr)

Questioning further:
Greek letters at the Gold Saucer (Dionysos - final fantasy forums) (FFF)
A true hero ? (TLS)
What are these trees from Final Fantasy VII's sleeping forest ? (UBC Botanical Garden) Twitter (Kazushige Nojima - Don't know if this is related but the dates correspond quite well) (Twitter)
Who owns these wings ? (TLS)
What is Shinra's true motive ? (TLS)

Concluding as best as I could:
Stating a premise (TLS)
"LIFE must leave to develop elsewhere, whatever it takes." That's its nature as a cosmic wanderer.
Jenova is a ("Gaia") WEAPON with psychic abilities that'll play the role of CHAOS into triggering LIFE's migration aboard OG's Meteor.

 

[Lestat]

The "this isn't just a reactor" bit seems to refer to the experiments that were done there i.e jenova and the various monsters in the tubes outside her housing location.

In regards to the general mako/lifestream queries I think it just falls into general Gaia theory where you live you die you live again as something else as energy. If you think of the planet as one living organism and everyone and everything on it as an extension of the planet then keeping the lifestream whole is the main goal of the planet itself. As shinra leech the power of the lifestream in the form of mako they make their own lives easier but at the cost of destroying the world (a bit like humanity is doing with fossil fuels right now)

Even without jenova/sephiroth/meteor if shinra was left to suck up all the mako the planet would shrivel up and die (as told by bugenhagen)

You could probably argue that Gaia's promised land would be a world without mako consumption where the cycle of life and death just repeats and continues to nourish the planet.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

Even without jenova/sephiroth/meteor if shinra was left to suck up all the mako the planet would shrivel up and die (as told by bugenhagen)

Even without jenova/sephiroth/meteor/Shinra sucking up mako I guess the planet would still shrivel up and die at some point.

It is implied in DoC that if she dies*, she will transform into a ship that will embark on a fabulous journey along a road untravelled.
That perspective sounds exciting, don't you think ?

* to me a kind of metaphor to say that it's time for her to leave the rock

 

[Makoeyes987]

There'd be no Omega because all the Lifestream would be gone. Omega can't form if a planet's spirit energy is depleted. It'd be a lifeless rock.

 

[Lestat]

Yeah fairly certain once the lifestream runs dry the planet ends up as a lifeless husk and just crumbles into nothingness just like the demo bugenhagen gives you your first time in his Observatory

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

I probably should have posted on Compilation of Final Fantasy VII in view of the arguments I am developing. Anyway there's still a relation to OG so...

There'd be no Omega because all the Lifestream would be gone. Omega can't form if a planet's spirit energy is depleted. It'd be a lifeless rock.

Yeah fairly certain once the lifestream runs dry the planet ends up as a lifeless husk and just crumbles into nothingness just like the demo bugenhagen gives you your first time in his Observatory

I count on the fact that you have understood what I consider to be the death of the planet, i.e. that the Lifestream leaves the rock before it takes its final breath. So that it'll never really die (as agnostic earth dwellers generally understand death) but rather continue its journey, for a time as a pure Life Stream (process similar to the Cetra life cycle). Omega will always leave before the Lifestream is completely exhausted, at least that's how I understand it is programmed.
What is the Planet if not the Lifestream?

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The Planet (the rock) and The Planet (the Lifestream) are indeed two different things. Omega's role is to take the Lifestream with it if it needs to abandon The Planet (the rock) for some reason. Omega is also supposed to find a *new* Planet (the rock) to settle the Lifestream into. So the Lifestream (and the memories in it) are never really supposed to "run out".

 

[Makoeyes987]

The Omega response of the planet only happens if there's a sudden influx of spirit energy sensed by the Planet with the Protomateria in place.

If the spirit energy of the planet is siphoned away, then Omega will not trigger. It takes a large scale return of life to the cycle of souls which triggers the Planet to believe that something calamitous is in motion. If the opposite happens, where the Lifestream is bled from the planet, Omega won't trigger.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

Omega is also supposed to find a *new* Planet (the rock) to settle the Lifestream into.

I didn't know it was mentioned that Omega had to find a new rock! Can you please tell me where this information is given?

The Omega response of the planet only happens if there's a suddenly influx of spirit energy sensed by the Planet with the Protomateria in place.

If the spirit energy of the planet is siphoned away, then Omega will not trigger. It takes a large scale return of life to the cycle of souls which triggers the Planet to believe that something calamitous is in motion. If the opposite happens, where the Lifestream is bled from the planet, Omega won't trigger.

I would be very grateful if you would point out to me the obvious impossibility of a departure from Omega due to a siphoning of spiritual energy.

Omega is said to be designed solely to maintain and protect the flow of life. It is also said that it only manifests when the planet has detected something that may cause her danger. I think the Planet should be able to feel a siphoning of spiritual energy as a great danger, especially if it is its primary base (liquid) that is gradually disappearing. But I may be wrong.

In any case, I think we can say that one of the true potentials of this energy is its ability to travel rapidly through the cosmos.
Towards her promised land?

One question I have. Do you think that Omega consumes spiritual energy during the journey? This might explain why the original task of the Cetras is to increase the amount of energy (unlock the Planet). If one believes it is possible to grow the amount.

Also what would the landing on the next rock look like?

 

[Obsidian Fire]

All your questions are answered in Dirge of Cerberus. I'd just go watch the cutscenes of that and you'll get a good idea of what needs to happen.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

I am a taker of any vague temporal/contextual information that would allow me to locate the information about Omega's destination!

I found this bit on finalfantasy.fandom.com

When finished, it flies into space and from there, the cycle of life begins anew.

which would tend to indicate that the ship has landed, but they do not mention the source.

All your questions are answered in Dirge of Cerberus. I'd just go watch the cutscenes of that and you'll get a good idea of what needs to happen.

Thank you for the advice, I did not think that my hypotheses would find such a strong echo in the Omega Reports.

Could this mean that in the original game, Shinra already know that the promised land is not on this planet? And therefore their real motive is really elsewhere (in the words of Sephiroth quoted above), in the sense of another place.
Perhaps the words of Sephiroth in this unheld script refer primarily to the life cycle of the planet and are in fact already evoking an interplanetary journey!

Perhaps Omega is both the name of the destination (Omega the end of the journey) and the name of the ship that would have been named in relation to it. This hypothesis could answer the questions presented in the Lucrecia report #2.

Perhaps the reactors that burn up spiritual energy are a way of causing Omega to leave.

What do you think of this?

 

[KindOfBlue]

 

[Makoeyes987]

Could this mean that in the original game, Shinra already know that the promised land is not on this planet? And therefore their real motive is really elsewhere (in the words of Sephiroth quoted above), in the sense of another place.
Perhaps the words of Sephiroth in this unheld script refer primarily to the life cycle of the planet and are in fact already evoking an interplanetary journey!

Perhaps Omega is both the name of the destination (Omega the end of the journey) and the name of the ship that would have been named in relation to it. This hypothesis could answer the questions presented in the Lucrecia report #2.

Perhaps the reactors that burn up spiritual energy are a way of causing Omega to leave.

What do you think of this?

No. Absolutely not. That is not what the Shinra Corporation is after whatsoever.

They're after money. To them, the Promised Land was merely a land abundant in mako to extract and sell as a comodity. And Omega cannot trigger if a planet's spirit energy is depleted.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

They're after money. To them, the Promised Land was merely a land abundant in mako to extract and sell as a comodity.

Taking into account that the Shinra technology evolved from the research on spiritual energy of a boy also named Shinra who came from another planet (thanks to this energy?). And since we learn that the Shinra is looking for the promised land and also that the Planet could have a promised land in addition to the Cetras, wouldn't this information have the potential to change our understanding of OG? As if there was a journey in progress?
To you, should the question of the promised land of the Planet remain confined to DoC?

And Omega cannot trigger if a planet's spirit energy is depleted.

What do you think would happen if the amount of Lifestream was consumed at 50%? Wouldn't that look like a danger to the planet? Wouldn't there be enough energy to launch Omega at that point?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Taking into account that the Shinra technology evolved from the research on spiritual energy of a boy also named Shinra who came from another planet (thanks to this energy?). And since we learn that the Shinra is looking for the promised land and also that the Planet could have a promised land in addition to the Cetras, wouldn't this information have the potential to change our understanding of OG? As if there was a journey in progress?
To you, should the question of the promised land of the Planet remain confined to DoC?

No. The little boy Shinra from Spira is not even close to informing or deciding the ambitions of the present corporation. That was many, many generations ago before President Shinra's life. Their goals aren't connected and even then, young Spira Shinra was interested in using spirit energy as power. Al Bhed don't believe in the Farplane or the connection between that energy and souls.

The Promised Land to Shinra is profit. Profit derrived from the commodification.

What do you think would happen if the amount of Lifestream was consumed at 50%? Wouldn't that look like a danger to the planet? Wouldn't there be enough energy to launch Omega at that point?

Omega cannot form from a planet's spirit energy bleeding out. It forms when life returns to the planet in a large quantity. Not when life is sapped spiritually from it. So any loss from Mako Reactors isn't going to trigger it.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

To you, should the question of the promised land of the Planet remain confined to DoC?

 

[Makoeyes987]

The "Promised Land" isn't even mentioned in Dirge, so I have no idea what you're talking about. That's from FFVII. Omega isn't trying to find the Promised Land, it's a failsafe to protect a planet's spirit energy.

 

[waw]

I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here and I hope to dispel it a bit. Folks, please jump in if I have anything wrong.

The "Promised Land" is something the Cetra spoke of. Religion-wise, it seems to be the Lifestream itself, a sort of paradise they return to after death and become one with. But by calling it "Land" numerous peoples think it's a place. (Maybe we can take this similar to various medieval writers speaking of Heaven as a place that armies could find a way to and besiege it, or even Mount Olympus and the gods there getting potential visits from mortals, or even finding a "gate" to hell somewhere.) In many of these cases, we may understand this easiest as a perceived "Garden of Eden." If your familiar with Abrahamic mythology, the Garden is an incredibly fertile place with countless gifts and bounties coming straight form the land. It's free of want or need because it's such a radiant, rich area. If the people have been "removed" from it, or are searching for it, it could be found and visited.

There's a soft implication to me that Mako-rich areas tend to be very healthy in terms of eco system. (I'm not sure this is supported in game, just what always seemed to be the case to me. I guess a lot of mako places are rather barren though, aren't they? Perhaps it's the Lifestream trying to heal these places...) At any rate, Shinra interpreted these legends as a visitable place that would be rich in Mako... somewhere on the planet.

(Soft aside, I also wonder if they considered it could be on the Moon or something since Space Program, but that's nevere really discussed but could be a neat FFIV call-back.)

So Shinra is hoping to find this Mako rich place to create a paradise. That's pretty much all there is to the Promised Land. The creators (NKN) left it up to the player decide if it's a real place or what. There's some implicaiton in game that the Whirld Wind Maze/Northern Crater could be the Promised Land because of its rich Mako concentration, but that doesn't seem to be what the Cetra meant at all. I do think it was Nomura (maybe Nojima?) that believed it was Midgar, personally, due to the rich Mako concentration there.

The Cetra visual in Remake may have some thoughts on that or buys into it a bit (implying Midgar was built on an ancient Cetra cradle of life).

When we get to DoC and the Omega Weapon, Omega isn't heading to the Promised Land. It has nothing to do with the Promised Land. This seems to be the misconception, that it's going there. It's a whole other level.

Now yeah, if perhaps they thought the FFX planet was a "Promised Land" the Al Bhed-descendants could return to, Omega may be a tool to get there... but this wouldn't be a Cetra belief as my understanding is we're talking about two different peoples.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

Thank you for sharing your positions with me.

The "Promised Land" isn't even mentioned in Dirge, so I have no idea what you're talking about. That's from FFVII. Omega isn't trying to find the Promised Land, it's a failsafe to protect a planet's spirit energy.

When we get to DoC and the Omega Weapon, Omega isn't heading to the Promised Land. It has nothing to do with the Promised Land. This seems to be the misconception, that it's going there. It's a whole other level.

In Lucrecia's Omega Reports (DoC) the terms Omega and Promised Land are mentioned in the same report (report #2).

Report #02

Found in Chapter 5 in the hallway outside the room where the Lucrecia flashback occurred.

No New Findings

Could "Omega" be a place and "Chaos" a person? While our search for the
site has continued, we have been unable to locate any new artifacts,
that may help to answer our many questions.

Promised Land

Quite a few of my colleagues come to the conclusion that, Omega may be
the fabled "Promised Land" to which the legend states that Cetra are to
lead us. However, I still have my doubts. If Omega were an actual
location, then how could Chaos be its "squire to the lofty heavens"?

Are we to conclude that there can be no relationship between Omega and Promised Land?

 

[Makoeyes987]

D-Did you not read the report you just posted here...?

"Quite a few of my colleagues come to the conclusion that, Omega may be the fabled 'Promised Land' to which the legend states that Cetra are to lead us. I still have my doubts. If Omega were an actual location, then how could Chaos be its 'squire to the lofty heavens?'

Omega isn't a location. It's a friggin' Weapon. That's literally what's said in the game, did you not see the creature yourself? Of course that thing's not the Promised Land, and that's what Lucrecia is literally saying right in that report. The fact ignorant Shinra researchers were saying that erroneous claim shows how the Promised Land isn't Omega. Omega is a Weapon that sucks up the Planet's remaining spirit energy to essentially plant it into a new dead rock and make it that planet again.

 

[waw]

Right, so, I think this is trying to create connective tissue between DoC and OG FFVII by showing the Shinra scientists discussed and shared ideas and information back and forth.

My read of this is that early Shinra Scientists were studying the Promised Land, others were studying Omega, and some conflated the two which Lucrecia thought they were wrong.

It still doesn't assert that Omega will take the Planet/Lifestream to the Promised Land. Do you see the disconnect and difference?

That said, yes, wherever Omega goes could have been part of the fabled Promised Land legends, but we don't have that information or anything stating that to my knowledge. It's a fan leap (not a bad one, but just a fan theory).

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

Yes, it's a theory.

The character Omega is the last one of the Greek alphabet and because of this characteristic it is used in many concepts among others to mean the end of something. The Omega ship is indeed supposed to appear at the end of something, the end of the establishment of life on a planet (caused by the threat of a danger in DoC).
But it is also a means of locomotion and in fact it is above all the beginning of something else or the continuation of that something(*). In this sense I find that the name Omega (end) would be rather badly chosen, maybe Hope would have been a better name.
But it is indeed Omega that was chosen, that's why I think that this ship bears the name of its final destination and that this destination is possibly the promised land of the Lifestream. Hypothesis with a potential to reconcile the contradictions of the various researchers stated on the report.

*We can notice that the notations of eras in this game are indicated in Greek alphabet, which can lead us to think that Omega will be the name of the final era, the end of the journey, the promised land. This promised land may be on this planet as you seem to think or on another as I think, in any case Omega has all the chances to be the moment at which the migration will have reached its goal. In this sense it is strongly linked to a place.

It still doesn't assert that Omega will take the Planet/Lifestream to the Promised Land. Do you see the disconnect and difference?

If Omega is not supposed to take the Lifestream to the promised land, do you at least, like me, understand that the Lifestream does have a promised land?

Omega cannot form from a planet's spirit energy bleeding out. It forms when life returns to the planet in a large quantity. Not when life is sapped spiritually from it. So any loss from Mako Reactors isn't going to trigger it.

Omega as you conceive it seems rather badly adapted to its environment, how would the Lifestream survive if it had to pass near a black hole?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Omega isn't a ship.

It is a Weapon.

It's named Omega because it's the "final" weapon the Planet utilizes to protect itself and it is the FFVII incarnation of the recurring enemy "Omega Weapon" in the FF Series. Its nothing to do with the dating system or anything. Again. The Promised Land is a concept of spiritual fulfillment from the Cetra, a concept of finding inner peace/happiness from their perspective. It's paradise. That has nothing to do with a weapon called Omega. The Cetra were interested in caring and cultivating their planet, not dying to join with Omega so it can fly away.

Omega as you conceive it seems rather badly adapted to its environment, how would the Lifestream survive if it had to pass near a black hole?

That's the entire point of DoC. Omega can be fooled and turned against the Planet, like any other Weapon. And a black hole is the least of a planet's concern when people can just bleed a planet dry for energy.

 

[waw]

Yes, it's a theory.

You're hypothesizing something beyond what is confirmed or stated in any material, so you really won't get far trying to prove it, as it is unprovable. The only thing that will happen is when your theory rubs against established material, it'll be debunked. It's a nice thing about bringing a concept here, it'll get tested against the canon again and again.

To be very clear, something like this could be "Rufus is actually a gay character. He lost his love early on." Nothing ever states one way about this stuff, but it's unprovable until proven by the creators essentially.

The Omega ship is indeed supposed to appear at the end of something, the end of the establishment of life on a planet (caused by the threat of a danger in DoC).

I see why you're using "ship." We should be careful though not to mischaracterize what it is.

If Omega is not supposed to take the Lifestream to the promised land, do you at least, like me, understand that the Lifestream does have a promised land?

Could you provide some sort of quote stating the Lifestream has a promised land? I don't think I've ever come across that, only individuals *not* in the Lifestream saying as such, really.

Omega as you conceive it seems rather badly adapted to its environment, how would the Lifestream survive if it had to pass near a black hole?

Yeah... it's something created by the Planet as a failsafe, from what we can tell like all the weapons. Why are you expecting it to be adapted to an environment? It has a function, it's a tool as much as it is an organism, if not moreso.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

This promised land may be on this planet as you seem to think or on another as I think ...

There's literally no reason in the first place to think of there being a singular Promised Land that is a specific place -- whether on this planet or elsewhere. The lore makes clear that such a thing does not exist. The Promised Land is where each person finds their supreme happiness.

For the Cetra, that was in rejoining the Lifestream. For Sephiroth, it was achieving the means to elevate himself to godhood. For Cloud, it was finding absolution from his guilt, and finally believing his friends and family were safe.

This isn't left ambiguous. It's all specified outright.