What is this Wannabe Metroid Shit?

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
Let me go back to the 80s. At the end of the original game, everyone was 'Oh fuck, Samus is a woman!' For better or ill that has defined Samus as a badass female, and people have a very rigid set of ideas of how you have to be to be one, it seems, even with shows like Buffy.
In any case, The point of this game is to tell us not that Samus is a woman, but that Samus isn't an emotionless wrecking crew. She's human. She's still a wrecking crew, and a damn good one, but she's human.
Samus is still a fucking badass. She's not less of a badass for having doubts, fears, issues, PTSD. She's more of one. This bigger the hurdle the more impressive the leap.
No, she is still a badass warrior, not just a badass female. Her characterization has always been one of a hardened warrior.

And for the love of FSM please do not use Buffy as an example for a badass female. Buffy and Samus shouldn't even be in the same group, their dynamics are entirely different. Buffy is always portrayed as strictly female with other aspects. Samus is not just FEMALE! whatever, she's just a warrior, first and foremost.
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
other_m.jpg
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
I've only played the first Metroid (where Samus just throws missiles and bombs around and fucks shit up for space pirates) and don't know who Adam is (nor Ridley if it hadn't been for a walkthrough), but on the subject on how much they played up Samus being a woman/how it affected the story, I can't see many male characters saying this kind of stuff:



While that might have been a more unique direction to take a male character, wanting to be seen as more than just some badass who kills things or something. I can't think of an example of that right now. But a female getting emotional over a man isn't that unique.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Amen, bro.

That about sums it up. :monster:

I'm tired of Adam. Adam can go fuck himself.


I don't need Adam to enjoy Samus, or Samus emoing over Adam, so frankly, I really don't need this game either. Gameplay's meh, so I'll keep playing Metroid Prime and spare myself the nonsense that is, this iteration of my favorite female nintendo protagonist.

It's just rubbish at this point. It adds nothing of merit to her character.
 
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Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
You change the nickname, it works for a guy. Maybe you have to couch it in a bit more bravado, but it works. Men with father issues aren't all that unique either.

BTW, Civilians in Military situations have to follow orders.
Samus is a Veteran, but still a civilian.

Also, to 'Samus isn't a woman,' Tina, in a bizarre way, you and Looney coming at me with a mix of 'You can't ignore gender' AND 'She's not a woman' really gets at what I think is at the heart of all this.
It's not gender issues.
It's you have a Samus you've built up, mostly whole cloth in your head based on assumptions. This game says 'No, that's not the case.' And you and most everyone else are upset by that. But saying 'they ruined my personal idea of Samus' doesn't sound appealing. So you come up with a variety of odd and somewhat disjointed reasons to dislike the game.

As for the complaint about focusing on Samus's issues with Adam, take it up with Fusion.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Yeah, its mainly Fusion's depiction that just doesn't interest me at all here. It just doesn't offer anything. I don't think it "ruins" Samus, but it doesn't really offer anything new or of value. It's just stuff we don't need.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
It's you have a Samus you've built up, mostly whole cloth in your head based on assumptions. This game says 'No, that's not the case.' And you and most everyone else are upset by that. But saying 'they ruined my personal idea of Samus' doesn't sound appealing. So you come up with a variety of odd and somewhat disjointed reasons to dislike the game.

Oh wow.
As for the complaint about focusing on Samus's issues with Adam, take it up with Fusion.
'

No, blame Other M and how it portrays it.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
The problem I saw with that clip (which, apart from the video in the first part of this thread, is the only one I've seen of Other M) isn't the nickname/'Lady'. But that she wants him to acknowledge their past--which, though I don't know what past that is, sounds like they had a romantic relationship or something at first blush--by calling her something 'delicate'. Delicacy is a stereotypically feminine trait, and it's coming into play in the context of her relationship with a man.

What male character has wanted their superior officer, even a female one, to acknowledge them as 'delicate'? That's decidedly engendered characterization right there.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
It might work better with a male for a 'mothering' superior officer, to be seen as more than just the warrior. Delicate might not be the word he'd use, but the sentiment would be the same. I think it could also be done with a Male and a Male and very easily with two women.
No, the relationship they had wasn't romantic. Adam and his brother were her replacement human family. While the Chozo who raised her were loving, they did not have an easy time empathizing or understanding with Samus and she they, so she latched on to her CO and Military troupe as an additional familial group, one she could actually relate to.
The Chozo are loving but out of touch grandparents, the Company were her siblings and parent.

As for delicacy with Samus, the delicacy issue has to do with her being raised largely as a warrior, her entire family and hometown being razed to the ground before that, of being human, of being more than a warrior. The nickname shows Adam recognizes her as a human, as more than 'the warrior.'
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
It's you have a Samus you've built up, mostly whole cloth in your head based on assumptions. This game says 'No, that's not the case.' And you and most everyone else are upset by that. But saying 'they ruined my personal idea of Samus' doesn't sound appealing. So you come up with a variety of odd and somewhat disjointed reasons to dislike the game.
Would you be upset if it was suddenly revealed that Link was revealed to be the flaming lover of Ganon and all of his battles with him are actually lover's spats? Cause I assume that isn't what you currently feel the Legend of Zelda series is about.

I dislike the game because it has a shit story. That's enough for me. :monster:
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
Also, to 'Samus isn't a woman,' Tina, in a bizarre way, you and Looney coming at me with a mix of 'You can't ignore gender' AND 'She's not a woman' really gets at what I think is at the heart of all this.

It's not gender issues.

Wait, what the heck? Samus has always been a character that's never had a problem with gender issues. This new iteration engenders her problems. I'm not trying to say that her gender is irrelevant to her character. It's very relevant. The first time you learn she's a girl is in itself a pretty nuanced commentary ("Shame on you for assumung she was a guy"). The big thing is that it was purposefully played down to emphasize her as "Archetype A" and not "Archetype B." She's a girl... just because she so happens to be a girl.

What this game does is remove her from the category which includes Duke Nukem and Master Chief and puts her into the same category as say, Buffy or Xena. And it's really aggravating because it reads that as a woman, Samus must be portayed as having "woman issues" in order to make her believable. I think I mentioned before that it seems like the issue could have been easily avoidable. The plot doesn't even have to change that much, even minor changes like dialogue/vocal delivery/facial expressions can change things a LOT.

Not to say there's anything wrong with Buffy or Xena though (Buffy is one of my all-time favourite characters). But their characters

It's you have a Samus you've built up, mostly whole cloth in your head based on assumptions. This game says 'No, that's not the case.' And you and most everyone else are upset by that. But saying 'they ruined my personal idea of Samus' doesn't sound appealing. So you come up with a variety of odd and somewhat disjointed reasons to dislike the game.

Would it help to say that I'm not really a fan of the Metroid series and don't really give a crap about Samus (unless she's raping Snake)? :monster:

What male character has wanted their superior officer, even a female one, to acknowledge them as 'delicate'? That's decidedly engendered characterization right there.

This.

Tina Branford said:
Would you be upset if it was suddenly revealed that Link was revealed to be the flaming lover of Ganon and all of his battles with him are actually lover's spats? Cause I assume that isn't what you currently feel the Legend of Zelda series is about.

Or a game where Dante becomes a stoic, depressive hero who it too much aligned with his demonic origin.

OH WAIT.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Would you be upset if it was suddenly revealed that Link was revealed to be the flaming lover of Ganon and all of his battles with him are actually lover's spats? Cause I assume that isn't what you currently feel the Legend of Zelda series is about.

I dislike the game because it has a shit story. That's enough for me. :monster:

And that's all you had to say. Trying to make it about other things when it's not is not doing you any favors.
Also, given the surfeit of Links, one of him and Ganon being Butt buddies could happen.
Your point about 'what you feel the story is about' is kind of pointless, though, unless you were complaining about this direction back when Fusion came out.

Wait, what the heck? Samus has always been a character that's never had a problem with gender issues. This new iteration engenders her problems. I'm not trying to say that her gender is irrelevant to her character. It's very relevant. The first time you learn she's a girl is in itself a pretty nuanced commentary ("Shame on you for assumung she was a guy"). The big thing is that it was purposefully played down to emphasize her as "Archetype A" and not "Archetype B." She's a girl... just because she so happens to be a girl.

What this game does is remove her from the category which includes Duke Nukem and Master Chief

A deliberate parody of over the top heroes and a silent, personalityless ubermensch?

and puts her into the same category as say, Buffy or Xena. And it's really aggravating because it reads that as a woman, Samus must be portayed as having "woman issues" in order to make her believable. I think I mentioned before that it seems like the issue could have been easily avoidable. The plot doesn't even have to change that much, even minor changes like dialogue/vocal delivery/facial expressions can change things a LOT.

Not to say there's anything wrong with Buffy or Xena though (Buffy is one of my all-time favourite characters). But their characters

You seem to have dropped off mid sentence.
In any case, I don't see these as being so much 'women's issues,' so much as humanity issues from a raised warrior. If Samus is stressing her femininity, it might be as a way of stressing her humanity. Soldiers often have issues with fears about slowly eroding their humanity, especially after lots of combat. Samus was a child, with her home taken from her, effectively raised as a Soldier.

Would it help to say that I'm not really a fan of the Metroid series and don't really give a crap about Samus (unless she's raping Snake)? :monster:

No, actually. Because you don't have to be a major fan of your series to craft the idea of a character in your mind without learning much about that character.


It can work, but you'd need a similar 'raised as a Soldier' character with fears of losing his humanity, in the 'I crush all I touch' fear. It would work best if delivered by a very large man with a very deep voice.

Or a game where Dante becomes a stoic, depressive hero who it too much aligned with his demonic origin.

OH WAIT.

A somewhat different scenario in that Dante was established as something far different, and this was a radical change. Other M is taking Samus in a known direction. Too far in that direction, possibly, but an existing one.
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
I just want to point out, the logic you're using that "it would just as easily work if it were for a man." That's like saying "I'm not racist my best friend is black."
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
And that's all you had to say. Trying to make it about other things when it's not is not doing you any favors.
Also, given the surfeit of Links, one of him and Ganon being Butt buddies could happen.
Your point about 'what you feel the story is about' is kind of pointless, though, unless you were complaining about this direction back when Fusion came out.
In Fusion it wasn't like 'this is Adam he is my surrogate father figure PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE ME DADDY' it was a relationship of mutual respect. Someone who was a real friend to Samus, so I didn't care that he was somehow actually her computer because heck, I'm fine with Samus having friends. Not so much where Other M takes the relationship.
 

Hisako

消えないひさ&#
AKA
Satsu, BRIAN BLESSED, MIGHTY AND WISE Junpei Iori: Ace Detective, Maccaffrickstonson von Lichtenstafford Frabenschnaben, Polite Krogan, Robert Baratheon
What irritates me is that people only now go loud about the dev's bad female representation in a game that wasn't even written by Team Ninja. ABLOOBLUUUBLOOOBLUU NINTENDO NEVUR SHUDOF OUTSOURCE METROID EVER TO DOA MAKURS
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
What irritates me is that people only now go loud about the dev's bad female representation in a game that wasn't even written by Team Ninja. ABLOOBLUUUBLOOOBLUU NINTENDO NEVUR SHUDOF OUTSOURCE METROID EVER TO DOA MAKURS


What are you even complaining about? We all know that the story was all Nintendo's doing and that the gameplay was all that was outsourced.

Team Ninja has always been panned for its retarded representation of women as well.
 

Hisako

消えないひさ&#
AKA
Satsu, BRIAN BLESSED, MIGHTY AND WISE Junpei Iori: Ace Detective, Maccaffrickstonson von Lichtenstafford Frabenschnaben, Polite Krogan, Robert Baratheon
No, I was reading through the 14 pages of comments on Yahtzee's video.

I know all of us in this thread are smart enough to have everything figured out by now. :monster:

And imo if they'd actually had Team Ninja write Samus even they wouldn't have made her a damsel in distress compared to other Metroid games. Sure, it'd probably be an incredibly sexist writing of her, but she wouldn't really have deep girly issues as nothing but a walking pile of tits and muscle
 
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Hisako

消えないひさ&#
AKA
Satsu, BRIAN BLESSED, MIGHTY AND WISE Junpei Iori: Ace Detective, Maccaffrickstonson von Lichtenstafford Frabenschnaben, Polite Krogan, Robert Baratheon
Well I dunno man

Sometimes I have hope that there are smart and informed people on the internet

In hindsight that's quite a funny thought (although there were a couple of reasonable people in that thread :awesome:)
 
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