What was Hojo's motivation?

BadRapSample

Lv. 1 Adventurer
Considering how much of an impact Hojo had on pretty much everything that happens in the game, it's strange that we don't really know more of what his real reasons were.

He doesn't seem particularly keen on fame or recognition, and it's unclear to what degree the public even knows who he is or how much he's responsible for all the things sgoing on.

I guess the intended point is that he though the outcome would help Shinra corporation, and thereby benefit humanity somehow in the long run.
 

Ⓐaron

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
AKA
The Man, V
First of all, welcome to the boards :monster:

Secondly, I don't know if "motivation" is necessarily the right way of looking at Hojo's actions. He doesn't seem like the most rational character in the game to say the least, so he might not be looking at things in a particularly objective manner. He seems more like the sort of mad scientist who does things purely because they can be done :monster:
 

hleV

Pro Adventurer
Hojo's a pretty dedicated scientist. Some scientists do science not for money or fame, but to get answers. Or just fuck around with stuff.
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
Hojo ruins lives for shits and giggles, then passes it off as science. His behavior screams sociopath who is incapable of empathizing with others and is perfectly willing to harm them simply out of curiosity. He was presumably able to hide it better before, as I have a hard time imagining how no one could see how dangerous he was to just about anyone he has the slightest ability to affect with his actions if he was as obvious as he is in the OG for the entirety of his career.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
I think he's a massive perv/psycho. Like if he wasn't in science he'd be a serial killer with lampshades made of human skin and shit. 'Science' just gives him an outlet for his perversions. He killed Gast, and it wouldn't surprise me if he's killed other rivals to get to where he was. He probably thinks The Human Centipede is a documentary :monster:
 

jazzflower92

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Girl With A Strong Opinion
I think he's a massive perv/psycho. Like if he wasn't in science he'd be a serial killer with lampshades made of human skin and shit. 'Science' just gives him an outlet for his perversions. He killed Gast, and it wouldn't surprise me if he's killed other rivals to get to where he was. He probably thinks The Human Centipede is a documentary :monster:

It makes you wonder how bad Sephy's childhood was like since Hojo did have a hand in raising him.
 

Smaddy

Green Mage
This is kind of hard to limit to a concise post, without picking a bunch of in-game dialogue, but... I think it boils down to: he has something to prove, he enjoys playing god/being in control of life/death/creation, and seems to always investigate "what ifs" (theories) to the point that it ignores morals. He hates failing, and he gets tunnel vision when he works on a project. I don't think fame/fortune are motivators, it's just something in him that drives him to do this stuff.

I think all of his dialogue at the Cannon in Midgar is very, very telling to his motivations. He becomes very obsessed with a scientific project to the point that all morals/regards for life are completely ignored. He doesn't care if he kills everyone in Midgar, just to prove his point with Sephiroth. He's happy that the Sephiroth project has gone on this far, even though it's already destroyed so much AND meanwhile is leading to the end of the world. This isn't the only time Hojo acts like this, I just think that dialogue is very interesting.

Despite Sephiroth being all-powerful at this point, Hojo still has to enjoy being in control of the situation, so he makes the point, while madly laughing: What will Sephiroth think when he finds out I'm his father? Always looking down on me like that. He even says that he hates that Sephiroth's magical powers have become more powerful than science, but he's forced to concede. It's like one of those people who, no matter what, always has to stir the pot/disrupt the status quo, just to make a point. Think of all the times where someone has meddled (that we know of in-game) and he doesn't just get them fired or whatever, he kills them and/or seriously messes their life up (Gast, Vincent) and the bystanders who were in the wrong place at the wrong time (Nibleheim residents, Zack, Cloud).

You hear him say things and it's just completely nonsensical; kind of like how he was trying to breed Aeris & Red XIII because both species were going to go extinct, apparently...? He doesn't see that it's two widely different creatures he's trying to breed, as well as those beings' feelings on the matter. Yet you see all the freaky stuff he's done and who knows what he could've come up with had that experiment continued...?

I agree that if he wasn't a scientist working for Shinra, he'd be some kind of freaky/creepy serial killer. He really already is, he just has a Dr. title and an official position.
 

Ⓐaron

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
AKA
The Man, V
I agree that if he wasn't a scientist working for Shinra, he'd be some kind of freaky/creepy serial killer. He really already is, he just has a Dr. title and an official position.

Krieger: I'm not a serial killer.
Archer: Wait, why did you emphasize "serial"?
 

leadmyskeptic

Pro Adventurer
Alot of it has been said already, but for me, Hojo's motivations and psychology are best represented in one particular sequence. On the one hand there is a devotion to "Science" as a sort of God, but in keeping in line with his general derangement/sociopathy, beyond that is just a general desire to take things apart and fiddle with them using science...people, objects, the planet, the basic nature of reality itself. The sequence in question is after the collapse of Shinra, when Hojo mans the Sister Ray in an attempt to overload all the reactors and grant his son even more energy:

"Sephiroth...Go beyond the powers of science... Before your presence, science is powerless... I hate it, but I'll concede to it. Just... let me see it." *punches controls wildly*
 

leadmyskeptic

Pro Adventurer
There definitely is...although he does admit at one point that he hates himself...or, at least, has grown to hate himself. Although, bizarre as it sounds, narcissism (in actions), can go hand in hand with that
 

Zef

Rookie Adventurer
When Sephiroth finds the makonoids in Nibelheim, he makes a comment along the lines of Hojo still not being as good as Professor Gast. As an ambitious man, Hojo probably wanted to prove himself to be the best. It isn't completely uncommon for intelligent people to analyze morality and Hojo probably decided it was just blocking him from surpassing the seemingly more ethical rival who others believed to be his superior.
 

lithiumkatana17

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lith
I don't believe we'll ever know true insight to Hojo's motivations, whether he's traumatized from childhood or something like that, but as Sephiroth once put it, Hojo is 'walking mass of complexes'.

Hojo seems like a man driven solely by ambition and an insane sense of curiosity. Instead of asking 'why?' he probably asks, 'why not?' What happens when you mix A with B, what happens when I put these cells into that organism--which wouldn't be so bad, if it didn't seem like Hojo has no moral or ethical standards to live by. Combine that with ambition, and it's a recipe for disaster. And like everyone else has said, he's probably very narcissistic too.
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
Maybe Jenova's influence got to him and Hollander, since they both somehow realised that Jenova came from another world, and they wanted to prove that life can travel across worlds by creating descendends of Jenova or something.

And maybe because of this that Hojo slowly threw away his humanity side of things and obviously wanted everyone dead to prove his theory and then got a *Ahem* better idea by forming himself into Omega in Dirge of Cerberus to send the Lifestream into the sea of stars and to another Planet to rebegin life, and created clones of Sephiroth to possibly help with the first goal in the original game.

If that makes any sense.

Personally, Hojo's goal is similiar to Xehanort's goal to restart the Keyblade War in the KH universe, as Xehanort too created clones, but of himself while Hojo made 'clones' of Sephiroth, and Genesis made clones of himself as well, and Seymour's goal to wipeout life to 'save' Spira.

At least I think these are similiar.
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
I thought it wasn't until Sephiroth was a few years old that they realized Jenova wasn't a Cetra. By that point they'd see the abilities reulting from it weren't the same as the Cetra and Gast would've left and found out from Ifalna or something.
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
I thought it wasn't until Sephiroth was a few years old that they realized Jenova wasn't a Cetra. By that point they'd see the abilities reulting from it weren't the same as the Cetra and Gast would've left and found out from Ifalna or something.

Yeah, but Hojo was secretive and liked to have things his way, and thought that he was the only real person in the world and everyone else nothing but speciements for him to play with. He didn't even tell Sephiroth that he was his father or that Lucrecia was his real mother.

Besides, I never liked him to begin with. Like I said, he probably threw away his humanity side ages ago and hid it from the rest of the world, even behind the late President's back for his own agenda.

Plus, Jenova was a nasty alien woman...maybe she's actually Yunalasca or something from Spira, since she became twisted like her father Yu Yevon. Again, that's just my theory.
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
Yeah, but Hojo was secretive and liked to have things his way, and thought that he was the only real person in the world and everyone else nothing but speciements for him to play with. He didn't even tell Sephiroth that he was his father or that Lucrecia was his real mother.

Besides, I never liked him to begin with. Like I said, he probably threw away his humanity side ages ago and hid it from the rest of the world, even behind the late President's back for his own agenda.

Plus, Jenova was a nasty alien woman...maybe she's actually Yunalasca or something from Spira, since she became twisted like her father Yu Yevon. Again, that's just my theory.

I'm still skeptical about Hojo being Sephiroth's biological father, though that's probably just my unwillingness to imagine Lucrecia actually sleeping with him.

It's debatable whether he threw away his humanity or never had any to begin with. He's one of the most unrepentantly amoral characters I've ever seen.

I can't really imagine Jenova being in any way human. One of the things that seems to get emphasized is how inhuman it is, completely foreign to the planet and behaving in a way that doesn't mesh well with its inhabitants. That complete alien-ness plays a large part in why it's so frightening.
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
I'm still skeptical about Hojo being Sephiroth's biological father, though that's probably just my unwillingness to imagine Lucrecia actually sleeping with him.

It's debatable whether he threw away his humanity or never had any to begin with. He's one of the most unrepentantly amoral characters I've ever seen.

I can't really imagine Jenova being in any way human. One of the things that seems to get emphasized is how inhuman it is, completely foreign to the planet and behaving in a way that doesn't mesh well with its inhabitants. That complete alien-ness plays a large part in why it's so frightening.

Ugh...that's a scary thought of Lucrecia sleeping with someone completely disgusting as Hojo. I can't even look at the scene she's embracing him in Dirge of Cerberus. It's disgusting.

Plus, Hojo's one of the most unlike-scratch that, he's one of the most hated characters in history. I find him evil, sinile, and completely annoying. Heck, even Sephiroth would agree with me, as he told Zack and Angeal in Crisis Core to forget about that old idiot.

Not that I'm a believer of Aliens-Because I don't think they even exist but that's just me-but I guess you have a point on Jenova, though she's pretty much dead now. I can't see her returning if Square Enix do decide to make one last sequel to the Compilation after the remake.
 

leadmyskeptic

Pro Adventurer
I understand being uncomfortable with it, but I don't believe it's debatable (canonically) anymore whether Sephiroth is Hojo's son...Hojo obviously was able to turn on some kind of sickening charm when he really needed it, as he needed a womb to use for his project. By the time we see him in the game, he has no reason to be even remotely personable to anyone, so that probably has a lot to do with why we see him in his genuine, super-creepy mode. I always thought it was at least implied that he had turned on some kind of false charm to get what he needed. I mean the thought of them touching was enough to make Vincent lock himself in a coffin, after all ; )

But yeah, he totally banged his research assistant. WHO, by the way, I much prefer in the original game's "nerdy research assistant who could still be beautiful to specific people" portrayal, rather than the seemingly randomly voluptuous way they converted her to be in all that Compilation crap.
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Hojo: My son is in need of power and help. That's the only reason.

Hojo doesn't really lie, he doesn't care enough about anyone else's opinions to bother. It might be that simple.
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
I understand being uncomfortable with it, but I don't believe it's debatable (canonically) anymore whether Sephiroth is Hojo's son...Hojo obviously was able to turn on some kind of sickening charm when he really needed it, as he needed a womb to use for his project. By the time we see him in the game, he has no reason to be even remotely personable to anyone, so that probably has a lot to do with why we see him in his genuine, super-creepy mode. I always thought it was at least implied that he had turned on some kind of false charm to get what he needed. I mean the thought of them touching was enough to make Vincent lock himself in a coffin, after all ; )

But yeah, he totally banged his research assistant. WHO, by the way, I much prefer in the original game's "nerdy research assistant who could still be beautiful to specific people" portrayal, rather than the seemingly randomly voluptuous way they converted her to be in all that Compilation crap.

I don't think anyone cared about whether Sephiroth is Hojo's son or not, considering that Hojo pretty much unliked by most people, so, there's only no point on talking about the relationship between those two, and, personally, I can see why.

Though it's gross to believe on those women at Costa Del Sol in the original game who were hanging around Hojo at the beach. *Shudders...then moments later, vomits* I mean, that's just....Ew.

I prefer Lucrecia out of the two, since at least she's not that crazy and even acknowlges of her wrong doings, unlike Hojo who only cares about himself and his research. Heck, even Reno's not that heartless and he's a Turk(and a gorgeus one at that.;))
 

Ravynne Nevyrmore

that one Lucrecia fangirl
AKA
Ravynne
Considering how much of an impact Hojo had on pretty much everything that happens in the game, it's strange that we don't really know more of what his real reasons were.

This is because Hojo is actually a fairly disappointing character.

The problem with Hojo (as a character, not as a human being; that’s an entirely different dissertation lol) is that he has so much potential for depth, but every time the canon creators get their hands on him they’re like, “Yep, he’s mad, that’s it. Nope, that’s his sole motivation. Science. No, there’s nothing deeper beneath that.”

“Oh, but look right there— He just had depth for a second!”

“Nope, that was a translation error, sorry. Just crazy.”

“Oh…”

So if you want to find anything satisfying in Hojo as a character, you really need to look into fanworks and headcanons. Canon will disappoint you again and again.

And really, for Hojo at least, I’m fine with that. I not-so-humbly think the Hojo of my headcanon is a way deeper and more complex character than the canon Hojo, anyway.

So the Hojo of my headcanon? Suffers from a lifetime of feeling powerless for being a wimpy and unlikeable dude. He’s not one to adopt the adage “If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em”— he’s more likely to take the adage, “If you can’t join ‘em, beat ‘em.” So a history of social rejection (from his peers, from his parents, from romantic prospects, from fellows in his career, from all of or a combination of the above??) led to him ceasing to try to gain that acceptance and instead turned him down the path of vowing to prove everyone wrong about him.

Like, when he was in school he probably dealt with not being invited to any parties by insisting that parties were stupid and he had more important things to do like study science and also work on pretty crazy experiments that were dangerous and unethical but also won him international first place in the science fair or something. Meanwhile the people not inviting him to parties are just trying to get to third base.

Anyway, in that light all his actions take on this hue of defensiveness and denial and trying to attain a much more vulnerable personal goal even while he just tries to insist his entire life that he doesn’t care about any of it at all because he’s stronger than that. Better than that. He’s better and smarter than everyone, and he’ll prove that to them, and also that he doesn’t feel anything about it. He’ll prove that, too.


I guess the intended point is that he though the outcome would help Shinra corporation, and thereby benefit humanity somehow in the long run.

I don't think that was ever implied in Hojo's motivations at all, although for what it's worth I do think those were Lucrecia's motivations.



And as for these tired arguments, which I want to bang my head against a wall every time I read every few years:

"Maybe Hojo isn't Sephiroth's father."

He is. Get used to it.


"But ewww, I don't want to think of Lucrecia banging Hojo, he's so ugly and gross."

She did. Get used to it.

Also, they were canonically married, and also aside from DoC's shitty portrayal of Hojo we have no basis to say he was ugly or gross in his youth.

Also probably none of your business who she or anyone else decides to sleep with.


"Lucrecia was Hojo's research assistant!"

Lucrecia was a fucking "Class A Biotechnologist" and had the title of "Doctor." "Research assistant" my ass. Respect that woman's authoritah. (Spoiler alert: Not all the women working in hospitals are nurses or secretaries, either.)


"I liked Lucrecia's original representation better, when she was less pretty."

Lucrecia's original representation was this:

Lucrecia-ffvii-field.png


We have absolutely no idea how pretty she was or was not. Whatever you thought she looked like before DoC, either you imaged or someone else did and then drew it for you.
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
I know Hojo is Sephiroth's father, I just don't like that and said why. I'm perfectly willing to accept it otherwise. I don't think he's gross because of his physical appearance, I think he'S gross because of his personality, which even in the flashbacks you'd think would show at least a little with the whole experiment on an unborn child thing.

While your headcanon is pretty interesting and does add some depth to his character, I'm not quite sure where the loss of all morality comes in exactly. The thing with Hojo is that you have to either assume he had it and got rid of it or never had it to begin with.
 

Ravynne Nevyrmore

that one Lucrecia fangirl
AKA
Ravynne
While your headcanon is pretty interesting and does add some depth to his character, I'm not quite sure where the loss of all morality comes in exactly. The thing with Hojo is that you have to either assume he had it and got rid of it or never had it to begin with.

Still speaking according to my headcanon here, I think a combination of both.

The thing to remember about Hojo's arc is that it spans 30 years (or more, if you'd looking back into his childhood development also). There doesn't really need to be an "aha, that's the point where he lost his morality" moment because it can slowly ebb away over decades of shit.

But I do think the Jenova Project was the beginning of it, when he snapped and shot Vincent for his "meddling." I think that Lucrecia's feelings for Vincent—whether real or imagined in Hojo's mind—wore down on him until he did away with societal expectations (like not killing people who annoy you) completely. Before that, he was clearly not the most moral kid at Sunday School, but I think he probably did a much better job of hiding what a fucked up bastard he was and abiding by society's rules. Reason for me thinking that being Lucrecia's surprise that he shot Vincent, and willingness to marry him in the first place when she clearly seems to have such distaste for him later. I think we can see in the way that Lucrecia regards Hojo and how that changes that there was a change in his behavior there.

Even then, though, with Vincent dead and Lucrecia gone and even Gast gone, there were no witnesses left to testify that Hojo had gone off the deep end and killed people, so he very well could have buttoned up his metaphorical shirt again and continued to present a relatively sane front to ShinRa for the next indeterminate number of years.
 
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