What's your favorite character and why?

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
I never hear anyone complain about how Clouds backstory is so intimately tied to Tifa, so why complain the other way around?
Something is messed up in our culture when we think being connected to people is a bad thing.
Honestly, it’s mainly shippers looking for reasons to complain lol I remember the same kind of discourse surrounding Hinata from Naruto and I always thought it was silly to equate independence with character. I personally don’t consider it a bad thing to have Tifa’s character tied so closely to Cloud because as you brilliantly point out, the same point can be made for Cloud himself. My comparison to Aerith was really more to do with how her role is more connected to driving the plot especially in the remake compared to Tifa who’s role is mainly to developing Cloud.

If anything, I’d say the more Aerith drives the plot, the less relatable she becomes to me so if anything it’s a positive in Tifa’s favor (not to make this a Tifa vs Aerith thing, I hate that nonsense so much lol). Aerith driving the plot could make for some really interesting lore, I just wouldn’t want the story to get so wrapped up in that to the point where her humanity is lost.

I guess the part that I have trouble relating to is the part that many fans like her for, her insecurities. Someone this strong usually deals with their insecurities in a different way. Or maybe that's just what I was taught being in a rather weird all-girls middle school (the weirdness seems like a common sentiment from other students in other schools in town?). So yeah, something about her just feels unreal to me? Idk...
Really interesting take and I’m curious to know what you mean by dealing with insecurity differently because with a character like Tifa, I don’t know if we really see her insecurity having negative effects on her outward behavior because her approach seems to be to just lock them away in her heart as her name implies
 

Roundhouse

Pro Adventurer
Blue:

If you're talking about the OG, I don't think Aerith comes across as too perfect or as just a trope character. (And honestly, tvtropes annoys me at times, because tropes in general have become a bit of a quick way of criticising something, with people not realising that just about everything has tropes. The point is how well it is executed, if it's done for cynical/lazy reasons, etc.) Aerith does serve to push Cloud out of his comfort zone, but she is also very independant and feels like she has her own stuff going on. Hell, the big tragedy in the game occurs because she runs off by herself to save the day against the big threat.

I also like Tifa, mainly because I can relate to her in some ways. I think the writers did a surprisingly good job of both characters. In some ways, the way they used a simple 'appearance defies personality' concept might actually have been a mistake though, because even now, years later, people find it hard to look past their appearances.
 
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KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
Aerith does serve to push Cloud out of his comfort zone, but she is also very independant and feels like she has her own stuff going on. Hell, the big tragedy in the game occurs because she runs off by herself to save the day against the big threat.
No I get that, it’s just that of all of the sides of Aerith’s character, her pushing Cloud out of his comfort zone is the least interesting side to me yet it’s the side that a lot of fans focus on to the point where I feel like it makes her out to be less independent than she actually is (much like the fans who focus more on Tifa’s sexiness than anything else). The other end of this coin is to make her too independent to the point where she becomes too otherworldly and less relatable to me. The OG version of her is pretty well balanced which is why I’d put her as my fourth favorite character behind Cloud, Tifa, and Red XIII but I found her remake portrayal to lean too much into one direction or the other at times. Didn’t really bother me as a whole though, still a great character.
 

kathy202

Pro Adventurer
I'm not sure I can explain this very well since my thoughts are also still forming as I type lol but I'll try...

Tifa's biggest flaws imo is that when she encounters something she's uncomfortable with, she locks it up in the back of her mind and does nothing about it. We see this with avalanche, where she admits to feeling trapped, but doesn't actually do anything different (compared to Jessie who also feels responsible and went out of the way to make a weaker bomb). And in the OG, we see this with the way she deals with Cloud's inconsistent stories too.

Yet in the remake, she seems to magically be able to talk people out of bad decisions when the need arises, such as Barret's anger at Kyrie, or Cloud's insistence on going after Aerith despite Elmyra's disapproval. We also see that she's a successful business owner, and a helpful member of the neighborhood watch. While it's not entirely conflicting with her flaws, people I know IRL who have the ability to talk sense into others, or the drive to build a business from scratch, very rarely play ostrich when they see a problem. They may feel insecure and anxious, but they don't deal with it by locking those emotions up.

I think the remake overdid some of her strengths, probably to boost her likability factor. She seemed just fine in the OG, not my favorite because her particular flaws are not the sort I relate to, but at least she doesn't feel so unreal. And when we do get to see her finally confronting the problem in the lifestream, and again in AC when she was honest but harsh with Cloud, it was kinda satisfying. I'm just not sure the satisfaction would be there this time, because I get the impression now that she's completely capable of confronting difficult issues, but just doesn't because.... Idk, the story needs her to shut up? But who knows, maybe that lifestream scene won't even happen anymore :(

Edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is that remake Tifa is both active and passive at the same time when it comes to dealing with problems which leaves me kinda confused.
 

Torrie

astray ay-ay-ay
And a very honorable mention goes to Zack. What sets him aside as special to me is his sincerity, determination and resilience. He's not just some dumb sunnyside hero with a stupid smile, he grows beyond his naivety and chooses to stay optimistic and upbeat even when confronted with some of the cruelest twists of fate imaginable. He smiles in the face of suffering, and he really does his best to live and die like a hero.
This. So much this. Taking into account the complexity of his character growth and his lonely path to fulfilling his dream, he IS very much of a dumb sunnyside hero, which is absolutely charming. His one-liners are hilarious and memorable. He's an instant fix of serotonin, a literal sunshine, the most mentally stable person in the FFVII universe. Even if we came to a conclusion that having a person like this in real life might feel a bit too annoying or overwhelming at times, in his own world he fits perfectly. He's adventurous, sociable, caring, unafraid of being emotional; he seems to enjoy just being alive and being able to achieve something worthwhile. Again, we need such walking anti-depressants in life, people who lift your spirit up -- sometimes without even knowing it. I relate to Cloud a lot, so sometimes I feel like I need a Zack to hug me, and stir me up to action, and tell me I'll be fine as long as I believe in my dreams.

Of course, it's not only the personality but the appearance, too. I love the way Zack is designed in the remake and I can't wait to see more of him in the future. He may be a bit too much of an eye-candy though, but if I am to die of a sugar-induced coma, so be it. I'm ready.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Dealing with other people's problems is often a lot easier than dealing with your own.

When I said earlier that I was more like Tifa than I first thought, this is what I was thinking about. I am rather good at helping people with their problems and be a good adviser in general but oh boy, do I bottle up my own problems! So to me Tifa’s extremely realistic lol.

Edit: typo
 
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kathy202

Pro Adventurer
He may be a bit too much of an eye-candy though, but if I am to die of a sugar-induced coma, so be it. I'm ready

I swear, everyone in this game is too much of an eye candy :P But I'm always ready for more.

Dealing with other people's problems is often a lot easier than dealing with your own.

Yeah, I guess that's true. I think all this is stemming from my own mental model of a "strong" character, which mostly involves being able to deal with your own issues more than anything else. So maybe I just need to not consider Tifa a "strong" character, at least not at this point, then I'll gradually find her more believable.

In a way, she's very much like Cloud. Both have their own issues they need to learn to deal with. They're both capable and independent at this point, and physically strong, but have some ways to go before being "strong". I guess that's why they're the way they are in the remake, otherwise there's no more character development for future parts. Aerith, in contrast, is quite well developed by now... Assuming she's still gonna die, and not end up as some over-the-top goddess.

Funny, I often hear Tifa being described as a strong female, but no one ever describes Cloud as strong at this point aside from physically. Is Tifa really "stronger" than Cloud? More mature and able to handle life for sure, but emotionally? They feel about the same to me.
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
I used to not like Zack at all, but I've come to appreciate that a lot of that distaste was more for the story he was put in than Zack himself. I wrote a silly impromptu fanfic about him once that was more reflective of how I wish they handled him (apparently it made Torrie cry lol.) I like that he's the one outwardly positive and upbeat character, it's like he's the protagonist of the wrong story, if you know what I mean.
 

SilverArrow20XX

Pro Adventurer
Tifa.
I've always had a passion for martial arts, so I'm biased towards monks.
Tifa in particular uses a harder style instead of the usual kung fu inspired monks, which I love, since I practice those style.
I also see a bit of myself in her personality. Somewhat reserved, but not at all meek.
 

Rydeen

In-KWEH-dible
The more I think about Tifa, the more I like her. She was ahead of her time. FF7 came out during a time where strong female characters were rare, and the ones that were, almost always exhibited a purely masculine version of strength (basically restating what Stiggie said). Tifa is in touch with both her masculinity and her femininity. And also avoids being a Mary Sue, chiefly because she has a hard time communicating and is quite lost in her life. She's pretty melancholic, but still likeable to the player and to her teammates. Overall she's really relatable and feels like a real person, like many FF7 characters.
 
I like Tifa as a character because of he flaws, not in spite of them.
A character doesn't have to be a strong person to be a strong character. Indeed, they don't have to have a strong character, as in personality, in order to be a strong character, i.e. fictional person created for the purpose of telling a story. When I pick a favourite character, it's not the one I'd like to hang out with IRL or the one I find more admirable, but one who adds a lot to the story and is entertaining and interesting. And a flawed character is more interesting than a perfect one.
 

Rydeen

In-KWEH-dible
I like Tifa as a character because of he flaws, not in spite of them.
A character doesn't have to be a strong person to be a strong character. Indeed, they don't have to have a strong character, as in personality, in order to be a strong character, i.e. fictional person created for the purpose of telling a story. When I pick a favourite character, it's not the one I'd like to hang out with IRL or the one I find more admirable, but one who adds a lot to the story and is entertaining and interesting. And a flawed character is more interesting than a perfect one.

I agree. Though I do think Tifa is a strong person in addition to being a strong character. Girl had to rebuild her life like 50 times.
 

kathy202

Pro Adventurer
I can't disagree with anything that's been said here, but I just really don't feel it. She's a just too much of the "imperfect good girl" whose flaws are too likable and rubs me the wrong way. I guess the way Stiggie feels about Aerith lol

Edit to clarify: I specifically mean remake Tifa. OG Tifa is fine I guess. Not my mega favorite, but doesn't rub me the wrong way either
 
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kathy202

Pro Adventurer
Sorry, double posting for some Aerith love. :P I've always thought that her character also challenged the norms of her time. In a time where women were expected to be reserved and to put the needs of others before their own and take the passenger seat if the driver's seat is already taken, she was openly, and rather annoyingly flirting with Cloud. She goes off on her own to deal with the problem Cloud created despite not being physically as strong as any of her peers. And does all that in that (imo) hideous pink outfit.

For a while I had a hard time deciding if I liked or hated the character. As a pre-teen who was struggling to make sense of gender, I rejected anything pink because I thought it was too "girly" and kept trying to be sporty when I'm not. On hindsight, it was probably characters like Aerith (alongside the fact that society was indeed changing) that helped with my eventual understanding that I could define my own path in life without having to be wonder woman.
 
I don't disagree with most of what you say, Kathy, although there's a slight exaggeration there about the role women were "meant" to play in society in the 1990s. Margaret Thatcher was elected PM in 1979, let's not forget. But maybe the differences in expectations around female roles are down to us coming from different countries?

Also - that "take the passenger seat if the driver's seat is already taken" conjured up for me a mental image of a woman kicking, punching and wrestling a startled man out of the driver's seat so that she can take the wheel. Which would make sense if he were known to be a dangerous driver, but otherwise seems a bit rude :desucait:

PS I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that the mental image was too powerful not to share
 
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Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
I can't disagree with anything that's been said here, but I just really don't feel it. She's a just too much of the "imperfect good girl" whose flaws are too likable and rubs me the wrong way. I guess the way Stiggie feels about Aerith lol

Edit to clarify: I specifically mean remake Tifa. OG Tifa is fine I guess. Not my mega favorite, but doesn't rub me the wrong way either

Well, I don't see it as Tifa not dealing with her problems as much as I see it as her not being sure what the right answer is, which results in inactivity. This is a result from her being fundamentally a empathetic character.

Tifa generally understands both sides, but because of that, it becomes hard for her to fully commit to one side.
We see this in the contrast with Barret, where Barret refuses to take personal responsibility, or to empathize with the Shinra. Tifa understands that what they're doing is needed, but she also understands that Shinra is made up of normal people. She doesn't lie to herself, and because of that she doesn't know what the right answer is, and is wracked with guilt. Barret lies to himself by convincing himself that it's all justifies, and by doing so he tries to avoid feeling guilt, it's arguably a sign of weakness, while Tifa does the opposite.

Same thing with Elmyra and going after Aerith, on the one hand Cloud is right, and they should go save Aerith, on the other hand, Elmyra also has a point. So this results in indecisiveness.
She points this out in in the OG as well "I was always like that", it's the character flaw she has to overcome.
However, when she does make a decision, she does actually follow through with it. She's not afraid to follow through on her decisions, but since she generally has enough understanding as to what those decisions entail, she's hesitant about making them. When Barret tries to sell her the worldview of good men still being culpable for evil actions, she understands what the consequences are for that line of reasoning, and what you're throwing away, and she also understands that it applies to them as well. So she can't fully commit.

She's active in the neighborhood watch, and the bar, because those decisions are clear. Jessie acts to get a weaker blasting agent because there is no tradeoff there. It's not "Either kill people or let the reactor continue", it's "either kill people with the blast, or not kill people with the blast". She's fully onboard with the core premise of destroying the reactor, her "heart is in it", but there is no reason to make the blast larger than it needs to be.
With those kinds of problems Tifa also follows through, which is why she went undercover with Don Corneo, by herself, despite the danger, it's why she joined avalanche in the first place. She goes to Cloud for comfort, she goes after Avalanche on the pillar, she goes to save Aerith when the conflict is resolved, she goes after Sephiroth, etc.
If Tifa sees a solution to a problem, she will go for it, it's when she's not sure what the right thing to do is that she tends to opt for a wait and see approach.

Whether that's good or bad tends to depend on the situation, stirring up chaos isn't always good. And this also manifests in some powerful character traits where she's willing to endure mental pain for the sake of others, rather than heap her own worries onto them.
In AC, she's staying strong despite a absolutely HORRENDOUS situation. Her partner left her to go die in a church, her child is dying, Sephiroth remnants are attacking and she has to juggle all of that with no one to lean on.
That's why people tend to think she's mentally stronger than Cloud, because while she does suffer, and does need support, she's able, and willing, to endure all that while she helps others first, and hold out until they are strong enough to return the favor.
It's the difference between not feeling pain, and being able to endure a lot of it. Tifa is the second.

About her being too much of a "imperfect good girl", I'd say she's literally a terrorist. I just don't think you can fairly categorize her imperfections as being some sort of superficial beauty mark. She's fundamentally a good person, yes, but that's not the only character flaw that exists that's worth exploring, it's the contrast between her good motivations and character, and the moral greyness of her actions, and how she deals with that struggle and resulting guilt that makes her character and story 3-dimensional, and imperfect.

I hesitate to bring this back to Aerith, since, as you said, this shouldn't be some sort of Aerith vs Tifa thing, but I was just reminded of what I consider to be the weirdest sentence in remake. It's during the language of flowers when Aerith says "Maybe I should just give up, honestly it's what I do best". Cloud responds with "could have fooled me", and he's right, because this line comes completely out of nowhere, I've never even seen a hint that Aerith tends to "give up". If she were, and we were shown that, it would be a good character flaw for her to overcome, similar to Tifas indecisiveness. But I haven't seen her give up at all, at any point, if anything she's the one constantly telling people to not give up, that "we can do this, we can win, make it better, make it right, the future is always a blank slate", etc etc.
I got the distinct impression as though the developers realized that it's a problem that they hadn't given her a character flaw, and then tried to artificially assert one. I had a similar feeling when they established the character point of her "wanting to be found", which wasn't really a character flaw, but was meant to give some more color to what her character is feeling. In this case it made sense, because of course she'd want to engage with people after living in isolation, and it makes her behavior more understandable, and is a nice nod to "you came for me, that's all that matters", but I did sort of feel like it was inserted because they realized that except for the impersonal element of getting to grips with her Cetra nature, Aerith didn't have much going on internally in the OG. There was Zack of course, but that was rather understated, and thankfully, a lot more on the forefront now in remake, remake also adds the element of her apparently having to deal with the fact that she's going to die, which all makes her more interesting, although not necessarily more flawed.
In the original, I always felt like Cloud, Barret, and Tifa were all going through deep inner journeys about what they did, about Sephiroth, Shinra, Nibleheim, while Aerith was, in the words of the guidebook "more interested in the developing love triangle between her, Cloud, and Tifa". That's probably why I love crisis core so much. It made Aeriths actions in the OG feel more desperate and tragic when she's in denial and trying to relive her time with Zack, rather than the improperly laissez-faire, devil may care feeling I got from her originally, when she felt like she was on vacation flirting.
 
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Torrie

astray ay-ay-ay
I used to not like Zack at all, but I've come to appreciate that a lot of that distaste was more for the story he was put in than Zack himself. I wrote a silly impromptu fanfic about him once that was more reflective of how I wish they handled him (apparently it made Torrie cry lol.) I like that he's the one outwardly positive and upbeat character, it's like he's the protagonist of the wrong story, if you know what I mean.
That's true :D It's kinda embarrassing, but I've cried torrents ever since Zakkura hit me hard last year (both through the platonic and romantic lens). It's a bit weird that I, together with a small community on Twitter, find a lot of comfort in a story full of suffering, but the reflective and coping mechanisms of the human psyche are really mysterious and unpredictable. Guess I'm going to use them to the max as long as the enjoyment lasts.
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
That's true :D It's kinda embarrassing, but I've cried torrents ever since Zakkura hit me hard last year (both through the platonic and romantic lens). It's a bit weird that I, together with a small community on Twitter, find a lot of comfort in a story full of suffering, but the reflective and coping mechanisms of the human psyche are really mysterious and unpredictable. Guess I'm going to use them to the max as long as the enjoyment lasts.
Maybe I'm odd, but I get a lot of catharsis from seeing characters have emotional breakdowns lol. I was disappointed Zack never had such a scene.
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
Yeah, that is opposite of me, I did see Aerith like that in the OG, because she felt like just one of the party, having to come to grips with a big power/responsibility she never asked for. But then both in the fandom, and in subsequent entries, her character just seemed to be deified, to where she, and particularly her death, seemed to overshadow everything else. Barret and Tifa knew Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge for much longer than Aerith, but you wouldn't know it from the way Aeriths is treated as a special person whose death was just uniquely tragic.

Then in remake she just feels like some angelic gandalf figure to me, there to lead the party, and the world, towards salvation by speaking riddles, imparting knowledge, and creating wormholes,. From the moment you find out she's an ancient it feels like everything stops and now revolves around her and her quest to stop Sephiroth. That's something that in the OG, is mostly Clouds motivation, with Aerith being the one who comes along, to Remake, where Aerith is basically talking about how Sephiroth must be stopped and whether they'll come with her.

Everything about it just rubs me the wrong way, and the idea that they make her into that, but then still also try to eat their cake too by making her "Well I'm just a girl uwu" just makes it more irritating to me. My favorite Aerith by far is the one in crisis core.

I remember a comment here on the lifestream that perfectly summed up my problems with how Aerith is written in the remake, but I can't find it, drats.
It was about how Aerith is a bit too self-inserty perfect.
She's the magical ancient being who will save the world, but she's also just a girl.
She's a slum dweller but she also lives in the most idyllic disney environment around.
She's not a "good girl", cause she swears, but only in non-character fault way that just makes her more adorable
She has a tragic past, but that doesn't dampen her spirits!
She was experimented on, but is still just innocent and trusting.
She's leaves a lifelong impact on everyone she met for a week.
Although she's dead, her powers allow her to still live on in a way.

It's all a bit too much imo, especially since now main question people are asking about the remake is whether the entire story has been re-written to allow for Aerith to live. FFVII isn't about Aeriths death, and remake shouldn't be about re-writting the universe to get her back.

Really, threads like:
"Maybe Tifa will die and Aerith can save Cloud in the lifestream!". Suggestions like that have just really started to sour Aeriths character for me, which is unfortunate since I used to like her.

This is a weird thing for me, I try to separate “the fan base” from the characters as much as possible, because at times the fan base has put me off both Aerith and Tifa. I think it’s because a lot of people’s primary method to big up their favourite is to run other characters down while acting weird about their favourite.

This manages to have the affect of pushing me away from all involved.
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
Anyway, answer to the topic...

Im going to give what probably sounds like a shitty answer but it is what it is.


I can’t pick out a single character that stands on their own as the best character. For me, FFVII’s cast works as an ensemble - a cast of characters that are great as a cast, that make each other good and compliment each other brilliantly.

FFVII doesn’t contain a “favourite character” for me. I don’t think it has the best written characters (individually) out there, or the best conceived characters out there. But, amongst fiction, FFVII contains what is probably my favourite cast of characters.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
I try to separate “the fan base” from the characters as much as possible
I try to, but I've just noticed that I can't, I just go "ignore it ignore it" but I can't look away XD

But, amongst fiction, FFVII contains what is probably my favourite cast of characters.
I just finally finished FFIX again and while I love VII, and thought "damn, maybe this one is the best" while replaying it a while back, playing IX again just made me go "nope, I was right, this shit right here is absolutely magical".

So I think for me, when it comes to cast, it's:
1: FFIX
2: FFX
3: FFVII

(note, that still makes the VII cast amazing, that might very well be third out of hundreds of games, not gonna include stuff outside of games since that becomes too difficult).
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Honestly? No one comes to mind, I don't hate characters, but I'm more inclined towards the setting than anyone specific.

Female characters get put under a lot of pressure, because they're always analysed under 'what does this characters actions/thoughts/costume mean for every single woman on the entire multiverse', which is too much pressure for most of them to withstand, because people get angry and go 'but this means' instead of assuming the woman selling parakeets is not a commentary on all women everywhere and what they can or should do.
 

kathy202

Pro Adventurer
But maybe the differences in expectations around female roles are down to us coming from different countries?

Yeah I think this is probably the root cause of the overall differences in sentiment here to begin with. I'm born and raised in Asia, which is imo is still much more conservative than the West. And darn, that mental image sounds crazy lol guess I could've worded it better, but hey, I'm not a writer :mon:

There's no lack of Asian women who love Tifa of course since she is indeed a very well-written character, but I personally still struggle to get past that "here's your sexy supportive understanding Asian waifu who will stand by her man" vibe (ugh, sorry if this offends anyone, I'm not saying that they intentionally wrote the character like that, just the unfortunate perception that comes with the design...). I almost wish they made her less perfect in that sense, like a bit more selfish or something. And I suspect the fanbase has a large part to do with the overall cringe...

I try to, but I've just noticed that I can't, I just go "ignore it ignore it" but I can't look away XD

I feel you man... Totally.

As for Tifa being a part of a terrorist organization, I guess I tend to overlook that "flaw" because everyone else in the party is too. But yeah, I agree, her character really shines when she overcomes whatever's holding her back and follows through with it. Guess I'll just have to wait for future parts to see that remake-wise.

And for Aerith's struggle seeming a little less personal in the OG, I kinda agree that they could've written more there. Though I think her struggles as the only Cetra remaining are very personal and real. The point in Cosmo Canyon when she says "I'm all alone now", and Cloud goes, "But we're all here?", I think that very accurately captures the situation of someone who has exceptional abilities that no one else understands, not even herself, and therefore no one can guide her, or even know how to be supportive. It's that "I'm surrounded by people but still alone" thing, and by the time she leaves the party, she's couldn't be more alone. Not even the party she has been traveling with could be trusted to go with her. I guess that's what I like about her. She has to deal with the uncertainty and loneliness as she finds a way forward.

The supernatural powers part can make it a bit hard to relate, but I think the same kind of loneliness and struggle can be felt whenever a person is very different from the crowd. Also, it just occurred to me that another character who could even remotely empathize with the situation that Aerith is in is Rufus.
 
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