Who helps Zack to escape the dome of the Shinra Mansion? Angeal or Lazard?

[guisado]

Well I have this doubt because in the game you do not specify very well and I have two options:

Zack sees Angeal in your subconscious and this will help you out of the dome of MAKO when he does see the SOLDIER honor and stuff.

Or that is Lazard which broke the dome and help him escape, and that during the four years that Zack was in the dome Lazard was Angeal's cells and had the appearance and personality things Angeal. Apart from that the game is said that Lazard look for Zack During that time.

Sorry my bad English.

Thanks!

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

He broke himself out. Angeal was a hallucination.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

In the days before Angeal existed, Zack broke out of the tube all by himself because he's just that awesome.

I think what's implied in Crisis Core is that Lazard is the one who helps him, but because Lazard has become an 'angeal copy' and Zack's vision is kind of blurry, he mistakes him (quite naturally) for Angeal. Even before the Nibelheim incident he has begun to wonder whether Angeal might be alive (despite having killed Angeal himself), due to the presence of the Angeal copies like the one in Aerith's church, and also because Genesis doesn't seem to stay dead no matter how many times Zack kills him.

My headcanon states that Zack came to believe that he could not die either, due to the SOLDIER treatments or being First Class or because of the S-cells, whatever they were, in his body, or just because the only way anybody could survive all the shit that he'd gone through was if they were immortal. Sadly, he was wrong.

 

[guisado]

He broke himself out. Angeal was a hallucination.

But that is not said during the game, that's why you have more sense that it helps Lazard since then says he is looking for Zack. And I wonder;

By Zack did not break before the dome and just did when "thinks he sees" Angeal? Of a coincidence right?

Or someone would know me come somewhere where this explained?

thanks

 

[ForceStealer]

In the days before Angeal existed, Zack broke out of the tube all by himself because he's just that awesome.

Actually, all he did was pop out and attack when the tech opened it to feed him.

And...I thought that's still what happened, he was just hallucinating beforehand.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

In CC he does break the glass, then knock out the tech who comes to check on the commotion. Another thing needlessly changed.

 

[ForceStealer]

Huh. I always just took the breaking glass to be him coming out of his vision

Or he was playing FFX.

 

[guisado]

the question is? because the dome breaks right after Angeal see in dreams or lifestream?

And why not another time?

It could be also that being four years inside the dome, Zack looks like Lazard Angeal taking shape, this breaks the dome but from his subconscious upset?

you think?

 

[Shademp]

I don't remember the game script well enough. My vague memory wants me to think that the "monster" Angeal Copy, the one that protects Aerith and, off-screen, helps Lazard fight Shinra soldiers at the end, helped Zack break out. But I have nothing to support this.

In CC he does break the glass, then knock out the tech who comes to check on the commotion. Another thing needlessly changed.

I have to disagree about the change being needless. I am not too fond of the original scenario:
Shinra employee arrives with food. His model animation makes it look like he is carrying a plate with food which he then puts on a table. Really? The experiments, Zack and Cloud, eat food from a plate? I don't buy that. Then the employee opens Zack's capsule himself. Dude is surprised when he notices that Zack can move around on his own.

The scenario makes no sense to me. Feeding time is established as the chance to escape, but why was this particular instance more of a chance than the previous feeding times? If Cloud and Zack are fed, aside from the mako powering them up, it should happen intravenously. The "food on plate" doesn't sit well with me.

The Crisis Core scenario isn't perfect either. I'm still confused if Zack broke out on his own or if an Angeal Copy helped him. If it's the former, the question as to why he couldn't break out earlier is still there, but I still prefer that scenario because then the escape isn't dependant on the Shinra employee being a complete dumbass. In the latter, with an Angeal Copy helping them, the pro is that Zack's escape makes sense but the con is that the plot of Crisis Core invades in a spot where I don't want it.

 

[guisado]

Very interesting Shademp!!!

I'll try to find information on the Internet about the subject and original sources to see if I can some information will find yourself contrasting the issue and will let you know in the forum.

 

[Shademp]

Just want to inform that I have checked the following articles on our site... (via Guide Book Translations)

- Zack Fair 10th Anniversary UO Character Profile
- The Complete Timeline of the Compilation
- Crisis Core Ultimania Scenario Q&A
- Crisis Core Complete Guide Keyword Collection

...but I found nothing about an Angeal Copy helping Zack. The closest thing I found was a segment that explains the DEEP SYMBOLISM of the dream Zack has right before he breaks out. "Zack's Mental Image"

So far, the only connection Angeal seems to have with Zack's imprisonment is that Zack feels inadequate for not living up to SOLDIER honor...or something like that.

There could still be some important reference that we're missing, either in the game itself or in a CC guide book.

 

[guisado]

I just found something that may help:

In the beginning of the book we see as a white feather falls into water in Zack's mind after seeing in dreams Angeal or Angeal Copy (Lazard) and soon breaks the dome. I am posting the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is6skOVZIZg

And then to find Gongaga Lazard says he wants to see as helping Zack and the end of the video we also see a white feather falls of its wings to the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSG0pN2qACE

I think this shows us a way that Lazard was Zack who helped out of the dome, in my view.

A greeting

 

[Shademp]

It is an interesting perspective and an implication, but sadly not a confirmation. If somebody looks through guide books for an answer (whether it be a CC guide or the 10th Anniversary Ultimania) they should search not only through pages that describe Zack escaping, but also parts that talk about Lazard and Zack's aforementioned exchange.

*tried to take photos of the CC guide but sadly I couldn't get good enough pics*

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

We might consider asking hito. I'll let him know about this thread.

 

[guisado]

I just read an interesting thing where they talk of Zack's Final Stand:

Four years of enduring Hojo's experimentation, Zack is freed With The assistance of Lazard Deusericus, although Zack is unaware of this and thinks he has received help from his deceased mentor, Angeal, instead. Taking Cloud With Him and running into the surrounding forest, is pursued by Zack Both the Shinra Military and the Turks, who Have Been ordered to Pursue the two "research samples" that have escaped from Shinra Mansion.

I put the link to the page:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Zack's_Final_Stand

I think this may help clarify things or just make it more complex.

 

[Shademp]

Interestingly enough the wiki's page on Lazard mentions nothing about him aiding Zack's escape from the mansion. It is still possible that the "Lazard rescued Zack" thing is merely headcanon and that the wiki is false here. I really should pick up Crisis Core again (as I was in the process of playing it through) but right now I'm just so busy playing the PC2012 version of FFVII.

 

[guisado]

Hello, I have emerged a new question:

Where exactly says or in that document or game Shalua rui make gun-arm to Barret? Is supposed to be before Adven Children yeah?

I've tried searching for information but only see their prosthesis has made them the old Sakaki.

Thanks and regards

(I read in Internet this

"An interesting fact is also that Barret visited Shalua Rui shortly before the events of Advent Children to upgrade his arm, so that it could transform between types without having to swap attachment."

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm not sure where that fandom assumption came from, but it's wrong.

 

[guisado]

I'm not sure where that fandom assumption came from, but it's wrong.

In Final fantasy Wikipedia put this in profiles Barret and shalua:

"In the aftermath, Barret found Dyne's daughter Marlene and took her to raise her as his own, believing Dyne had perished. He acquired a prosthetic gun-arm, which was made for him by Shalua Rui. Barret made his way to Cosmo Canyon and learned of AVALANCHE, becoming the leader of the organization's second incarnation, and went to Midgar to begin his campaign against Shinra. "

"
Shalua appears in Episode 21 in Corel Prison, injured, starving, and in need of water. The player Turk attempts to help, but Shalua refuses the offer. She tells the player she is searching for her sister Shelke, who had been taken by the Turks to be a SOLDIER candidate. Shalua had joined with AVALANCHE because she thought it would help get her sister back, but she eventually found the organization too twisted under Fuhito to continue working for them. At some point under AVALANCHE, Shalua was seriously injured, but was saved by underground doctors. She briefly helps the player Turk, but then leaves. As she leaves, she promises to never forgive AVALANCHE.
It is revealed that Shalua is the one who made Barret's gun-arm, and that she still has her left eye."

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, whoever the fan(s) is/are who edited that into the wiki, they were mistaken.

 

[guisado]

Yeah, whoever the fan(s) is/are who edited that into the wiki, they were mistaken.

I believe you thanks friend.

And last question...

What is the reason for the party to start the game Kalm Dirge of Cerberus?

What are they celebrating?

thank you very much

 

[guisado]

I read in internet that was to celebrate the settlement of the Worldwide Network is this possible?

 

[Shademp]

The party in Kalm is a "Revival Festival". Though I never considered before that it could have to do with the restoration of the Worldwide Network.

Kitase: After the meteor disaster, the once broken network was being restored during the timeline of DC. The revival festival of Kalm is a celebration of the restoration of connection along with a chain of events. And with the successful hook up of the network, this leads to the incident of Hojo.

Source: Dirge of Cerberus: Interview with the Creators.

Though honestly I think that the Japanese passage needs to be looked over again. Are the people just happy that the world is getting back on its feet? Are they celebrating the restoration of the Worldwide Network or is it just a coincidence that this happened shortly before the Revival Festival in Kalm? Hmm. =/

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I can't remember whether you scanned the page with that interview. If so, I'll take a look at that line.

 

[Shademp]

I can't remember whether you scanned the page with that interview. If so, I'll take a look at that line.

I did not scan it, but I should. Let's both work on remembering that I should do this before the week is over...