Why did Sephiroth Need his Original Body?

[OWA-2]

Maybe I'm forgetting something mentioned in the game or in one of the Ultimanias, but why did Sephiroth need to waste 5 years reconstructing his original Human-Jenova body at the Crater, when he could have just used Jenova's body itself to absorb the Planet's Lifestream?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Didn't he need a body to control Jenova?

 

[OWA-2]

Didn't he need a body to control Jenova?

As "On the Way to a Smile" and "Advent Children(Complete)" show us... He needn't.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Wasn't he way more powerful after his defeat in FFVII, though?

 

[OWA-2]

Wasn't he way more powerful after his defeat in FFVII, though?

On the contrary. After his defeat in FFVII(where Cloud shattered his soul in pieces during that final duel in the Lifestream), he was so weak he couldn't even remember his own self, and needed to crate the SHM to find Jenova's 'Head' for him, and use the memories(of himself) contained in it, to remember his own appearance and form a new body from it.

 

[Sigbru]

I remember seeing an interview with the producers saying AC Sephiroth is much stronger than before. Although I agree that he should be weaker =P

Was he even reconstructing his body? I just figured it was another part of Jenova that he changed to look like him. He shape-shifts into Tifa quite effortlessly after all

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sephiroth tried to recreate his human body because there was still some of it left, and he figured he'd try to rebuild it proper, instead of just use Jenova's body as a medium for his soul. Considering it was the first time he used his Jenova powers to its fullest, maybe he wasn't aware that he could literally just make his body from scratch via the Reunion.

 

[Roger]

Wasn't the fact that he was fused with Jenova's body the reason he could control and shapeshift the other parts in the first place?

 

[Dark and Divine]

On the contrary. After his defeat in FFVII(where Cloud shattered his soul in pieces during that final duel in the Lifestream), he was so weak he couldn't even remember his own self, and needed to crate the SHM to find Jenova's 'Head' for him, and use the memories(of himself) contained in it, to remember his own appearance and form a new body from it.

While he was weak after Cloud defeated him, it was not the fight itself that made Sephiroth forget his own self. It was Sephiroth himself who surrendered his memories to the Lifestream in order to avoid dilution in the flow.

And I don't think that he was weak by the time he created the SHM. He was already corrupting the Lifestream and creating his Negative Lifestream by that time. If anything, the creation of the SHM itself is a sign that he was already more powerful by that time.

Wasn't the fact that he was fused with Jenova's body the reason he could control and shapeshift the other parts in the first place?

I think it was more due to the fact that Sephiroth overcome Jenova's will and took control of the entity.

 

[OWA-2]

And I don't think that he was weak by the time he created the SHM. He was already corrupting the Lifestream and creating his Negative Lifestream by that time. If anything, the creation of the SHM itself is a sign that he was already more powerful by that time.

But he was weak(and without a physical body) by the time he used his control over the J-cells to make them attack their hosts, causing Geostigma, and consequently creating the Negative Lifestream.
Therefore, saying he could control J-cells without a physical body because he got more power(through the Negative Lifestream), doesn't make sense, because he needed to control the J-cells to create the Negative Lifestream in the first place. It's a circular 'logic'.

Considering it was the first time he used his Jenova powers to its fullest, maybe he wasn't aware that he could literally just make his body from scratch via the Reunion.

Yeah, maybe.

Was he even reconstructing his body? I just figured it was another part of Jenova that he changed to look like him. He shape-shifts into Tifa quite effortlessly after all

That would make more sense, really.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I figured part of it was vanity and for the sake of storytelling. Why WOULDN'T he want his original body back, from a human point of view? Sure, having a shapeshifting alien at my disposal is cool as an option, but not as a default.

 

[Roger]

Yeah, if you used to look like Sephiroth would you want to live on as the chopped up remains of decapitated alien female for the rest of well, eternity I guess.

 

[OWA-2]

At first, I thought I was forgeting something mentioned by canon, and this is why I asked for an answer from you people. But it seems there is no canon explanation for that at all, so I will have to just accept this as another plot-hole created by the Compilation.

Anyway, thankyou all.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Therefore, saying he could control J-cells without a physical body because he got more power(through the Negative Lifestream), doesn't make sense(...)

But that was what happened, wasn't it? Sephiroth was controling the cells from the Lifestream. He didn't need a body to do so.

 

[OWA-2]

But that was what happened, wasn't it? Sephiroth was controling the cells from the Lifestream. He didn't need a body to do so.

Yes, and he didn't need the Negative Lifestream to do so, either. He was able to control the cells naturally. And that leads us to the initial question:

Why did Sephiroth need to waste 5 years reconstructing his original Human-Jenova body at the Crater, when he could have just used Jenova's body itself to absorb the Planet's Lifestream?

 

[Roger]

There's no proof he even spend those 5 years focusing on that at all, he had no problem setting his plans into action before he was finished reconstructing his body. He said he became a traveller of the Lifestream; 2000 years worth of knowledge takes a while to take in, I presume. Maybe he didn't know where Jenova's body was until J-cell possessed Cloud ran into it, explaining why their visit to Shinra Tower made the plot take off.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Yes, and he didn't need the Negative Lifestream to do so, either. He was able to control the cells naturally.

But I wasn't stating he needed the Negative Lifestream to do so. I was merely saying that he was getting progressively stronger as the Negative Lifestream grew in size.

 

[OWA-2]

But I wasn't stating he needed the Negative Lifestream to do so. I was merely saying that he was getting progressively stronger as the Negative Lifestream grew in size.

Yes, I know that. Soooo.... What's your point?

There's no proof he even spend those 5 years focusing on that at all, he had no problem setting his plans into action before he was finished reconstructing his body. He said he became a traveller of the Lifestream; 2000 years worth of knowledge takes a while to take in, I presume.

Okay, okay, forget the "5 years" thing. But why he needed to reconstruct his original body in the first place, when a better and stronger body(Jenova's) was already there for him to use? That's the main point of this thread, and there's no official answer to this question.

Maybe he didn't know where Jenova's body was until J-cell possessed Cloud ran into it, explaining why their visit to Shinra Tower made the plot take off.

Maybe. Or maybe not. Either way, that's something not explained by canon.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Yes, I know that. Soooo.... What's your point?

I was under the impression that you were saying that Sephiroth was weak even by the time he created the SHM. I was simply disagreeing with that point.

 

[Tennyo]

There's no proof he even spend those 5 years focusing on that at all

^This

Sephiroth was learning the secrets of the ancients. Maybe it took him five years to do so? Maybe he was waiting for Cloud to break out of the Shinra Mansion basement?

 

[Roger]

Okay, okay, forget the "5 years" thing. But why he needed to reconstruct his original body in the first place, when a better and stronger body(Jenova's)

Wowowow... Better and stronger? How is that canon? We kick Jenova ass all game, first time we get to go up against Sephiroth's new body he's holding Holy back and rendering us harmless at the same time.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

And considering how I wiped the floor with Jenova Synthesis's asshole, Sephiroth is probably fucking glad he went through the trouble of getting his original body back.

 

[OWA-2]

Canon show us that most of Sephiroth's(and the other SOLDIERs') physical power comes from Jenova. That(and Mako) is what makes them super-soldiers, instead of just soldiers.
Hell, not even the Ancients could kill Jenova for good, while she/it exterminated most of them.
Jenova is physically/biologically superior to humans, that's fuc*ing canon.

Sephiroth was spiritually and mentally stronger than Jenova, sure, but not physically. He would have benefited much more from a 100% Jenova body, than from a 50% Human/Jenova one.


Ah, and BTW:

As for Sephiroth’s true self, when he fell inside the Nibel Mako Reactor it dissolved in the Lifestream, but over the course of five years his body reconstructed itself in the Northern Crater where the Lifestream concentrates as he bided his time for his revival.

See, it really took him 5 years to do that.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well technically, canon hasn't really spelled out where the influence of Jenova ends and Mako showering begins for SOLDIERs. I had always assumed that Mako made you stronger (given that enough mako would turn you into a monster) and Jenova made you damn near impossible to kill. But there's not really canon basis or that or anything else.

But you're right that by all accounts Jenova should be superior to humans. But the fact does remain that AVALANCHE whips Jenova's ass four times over the course of the game. I kinda like Mog's idea though, the fact they he WAS human would make him partial to having his human body.
And they say Sephiroth's AC appearance was the most powerful he ever was, and he had a purely Jenova body then, so maybe you are right.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Canon show us that most of Sephiroth's(and the other SOLDIERs') physical power comes from Jenova. That(and Mako) is what makes them super-soldiers, instead of just soldiers.
Hell, not even the Ancients could kill Jenova for good, while she/it exterminated most of them.
Jenova is physically/biologically superior to humans, that's fuc*ing canon.

Sephiroth was spiritually and mentally stronger than Jenova, sure, but not physically. He would have benefited much more from a 100% Jenova body, than from a 50% Human/Jenova one.

I think you're making the classic FFVII Fan Mistake of looking at everything quite too closely; I don't think it's that cut and dry. Sephiroth is more than just the sum of his parts, and it takes more to make a Sephiroth than ADD MAKO+JENOVA+WATER. There's obviously something intrisic to him and him alone as powerful and able as he is.

I've noticed throughout the years that FFVII fans trip themselves up by looking through every plot detail through a magnetic microscope like a science project, instead of a work of fiction. Don't get me wrong, the Compilation has a ton of shit that doesn't make a lot of sense, but I don't think this is one of them when you look at it from a macro point of view.