Why did Sephiroth Need his Original Body?

[OWA-2]

The "something intrisic to him and him alone" that makes him "as powerful and able as he is" is his will. That's already been stated by official sources numerous times
But I'm not talking about his will or any metaphysical concept. I'm just talking about his physical body and his waste of time on it:

I mean, why waste 5 years reconstructing a physically inferior body, when you already have a physically superior one right there, ready to be taken?

That's a valid question, isn't it?

 

[Roger]

Considering that the physically inferior body initially proved superior in every way, I can't really fault Sephiroth for this. Maybe he knew something about himself we didn't, not that much a stretch.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah I'm just not seeing it, OWA. Sorry, man.

 

[Max Payne]

...

Why the hell wouldn't he want HIS body? Not just because it's his, but it's the same body that let him take a big dump on everyone else in terms of skills.

But yeah, it's his fucking body. Would you want to be a pile of shapeshifting alien goo?

 

[Masamune]

But yeah, it's his fucking body. Would you want to be a pile of shapeshifting alien goo?

When that "shapeshifting goo" can form a perfect replica of your body, without the hassle of sitting in molten crystal restoring it piece by piece by piece... sure!

 

[Roger]

When that "shapeshifting goo" can form a perfect replica of your body, without the hassle of sitting in molten crystal restoring it piece by piece by piece... sure!

The Sephiroths we saw in FFVII were just illusions I think, they may see you as a pretty boy but Sephiroth always knew he was a huge tentaclemonster. The guy in AC was composed of Dark Lifestream as well.

 

[Max Payne]

When that "shapeshifting goo" can form a perfect replica of your body, without the hassle of sitting in molten crystal restoring it piece by piece by piece... sure!

Exactly where are you getting this "perfect replica" business?

I don't see the "hassle" either. He wasn't sitting around doing nothing, he went around doing whatever he needed using Jenova, while his body recuperated.

His hands were by no means tied.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Wowowow... Better and stronger? How is that canon? We kick Jenova ass all game, first time we get to go up against Sephiroth's new body he's holding Holy back and rendering us harmless at the same time.

Sephiroth holding back Holy had little to nothing to do with his body. It's been said that he did this through will alone -- and, in fact, he continues holding Holy back in the game, even after his body is killed. It was only after Cloud beat his will that Holy began to move.

Same deal is presumably true of how he picked AVALANCHE up and threw them around.

The Sephiroths we saw in FFVII were just illusions I think, they may see you as a pretty boy but Sephiroth always knew he was a huge tentaclemonster.

They were physical. FFVII's Ultimania Omega says they were pieces of JENOVA -- and remember, JENOVA's a shapeshifter whose cellular material was under Seph's control. He made the creature's pieces look like him.

The guy in AC was composed of Dark Lifestream as well.

Kadaj was composed of negative Lifestream, but it was only after bonding with JENOVA's remaining physical material that Seph was reformed. The cells were Seph's body to Seph's ghost (Kadaj).

Exactly where are you getting this "perfect replica" business?

Discs 1 and 2 of FFVII, as well as AC/C, I presume.



As to Sephiroth's reason for waiting for his original body to reform, I'd go with Mog's suggestion: his own vanity. Seph's ego has ever been his downfall.

 

[Masamune]

The Sephiroths we saw in FFVII were just illusions I think, they may see you as a pretty boy but Sephiroth always knew he was a huge tentaclemonster. The guy in AC was composed of Dark Lifestream as well.

Nah, Jenova's a shapeshifter. Sephiroth was using his control over her body to assume his appearance, right down to his eyeliner.

In AC, he couldn't just manipulate Jenova from the get-go, which is why he had to fuse her with one of his 'will bodies' to take a physical body.

Exactly where are you getting this "perfect replica" business?

From the games and movies, n' shit.

I don't see the "hassle" either. He wasn't sitting around doing nothing, he went around doing whatever he needed using Jenova, while his body recuperated.

His hands were by no means tied.

It was probably cold in there, too.

 

[Makoeyes987]

He also probably wasn't even aware of how he could completely merge his spirit and mind with Jenova and have it become his new body. Going by the fact he's still inhabiting his own broken, dead body, he'd work with what he had, versus trying to transmigrate into another vessel.

Sephiroth only resorted to obtaining a new body of Jenova cells once his entire original body was destroyed completely.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That's a decent suggestion as well, Mako.

 

[Max Payne]

Discs 1 and 2 of FFVII, as well as AC/C, I presume.

That doesn't even remotely answer the question. Where's the implication that they're exact replicas of the original? Replicating appearance=/=perfect copy.

It's only superficial. Obv in FF7 it was just Jenova shapeshifted, and in AC it's negative lifestream. He doesn't have organs, the biological systems, none of that.

As to Sephiroth's reason for waiting for his original body to reform, I'd go with Mog's suggestion: his own vanity. Seph's ego has ever been his downfall.

What does fixing his body have to do with his downfall? He rebuilt himself better and stronger than Jenova ffs.

 

[Roger]

Kadaj was composed of negative Lifestream, but it was only after bonding with JENOVA's remaining physical material that Seph was reformed. The cells were Seph's body to Seph's ghost (Kadaj).

I said as well, Jenova+Kadaj (Dark Lifestream) was needed. If just a litre of Jenova cells is all he needed for Reunion AC and the Silverhaired men wouldn't have happened. What does Reno taking away from the Northern Crater accomplish? Nothing. He can and has controlled Jenova from the other side of the world.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sephiroth's will was too weak in the Lifestream. He couldn't control Jenova from the other side of the world. That's why he created avatars out of his will who's sole purpose sere to find Jenova's remains, and expose it to his will.

He couldn't just telepathically remote control Jenova anymore. That's the whole point of the Reunion in AC.

So by keeping the Jenova remains hidden, Shinra could theoretically keep Sephiroth from ever returning.

 

[Max Payne]

That's the whole point of the Reunion in AC.

That and Sephiroth had a date with his boy toy.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That doesn't even remotely answer the question. Where's the implication that they're exact replicas of the original? Replicating appearance=/=perfect copy.

It's only superficial. Obv in FF7 it was just Jenova shapeshifted, and in AC it's negative lifestream. He doesn't have organs, the biological systems, none of that.

I'm pretty sure that's what Masamune meant about it being an exact replica: It looks just like his original body. Appearance is usually the primary topic on the table when you're dealing with shapeshifters.

What does fixing his body have to do with his downfall? He rebuilt himself better and stronger than Jenova ffs.

Because if he'd simply gotten business done then he wouldn't have gone out like a chump. Same reason dicking around with Cloud most of the game was fucking retarded.

And I'm still not seeing cause to believe that his original body with his will inhabiting it is necessarily any more powerful than JENOVA's body under his control with his spirit and will inhabiting it. Yes, he put up a better fight than the parts of JENOVA you fight throughout the game, but, then, JENOVA-Death put up a better fight than Life -- and Life better than Birth.

Later battles are typically harder than earlier battles. That's just how it goes.

Of course, Seph never intended for AVALANCHE to lose those earlier battles either, so it's pretty much beside the point either way. He can't be assumed to have meant business until the JENOVA-Synthesis battle, and it's not like the final battles were all that much harder.

I said as well, Jenova+Kadaj (Dark Lifestream) was needed.

You said he was composed of negative Lifestream, the implication being that you were leaving out the physical material component of the equation.

If just a litre of Jenova cells is all he needed for Reunion AC and the Silverhaired men wouldn't have happened. What does Reno taking away from the Northern Crater accomplish? Nothing. He can and has controlled Jenova from the other side of the world.

As Mako explained, he was unable to control the cells until his spirit came in contact with them again. That's the whole point. If he were able to control them otherwise, he would have just had them move around under his command the same way he did in FFVII.

 

[Roger]

Because if he'd simply gotten business done then he wouldn't have gone out like a chump. Same reason dicking around with Cloud most of the game was fucking retarded.

...Cloud was the one that got him the Black Materia.

You said he was composed of negative Lifestream, the implication being that you were leaving out the physical material component of the equation.

No, I said he was composed of Dark Lifestream >>AS WELL<<, implying there was something else too. I'm not saying that didn't need Jenova's cells, I'm saying didn't just need Jenova's cells. Well he did, but him becoming the most powerful incarnation of Sephiroth yet I can't just attribute to him having a particularly strong will at the time.

 

[OWA-2]

And I'm still not seeing cause to believe that his original body with his will inhabiting it is necessarily any more powerful than JENOVA's body under his control with his spirit and will inhabiting it.

Me neither.
Logically speaking: he would be even stronger with a pure Jenova-body(+ will and spiritual power) than with his original non-pure one(+ will and spiritual power), wouldn't need to waste 5 years reconstructing it, and would have his bishounen looks through Jenova's shapeshifting.




I'm sorry guys, but I cannot see a logical reason(even from the vanity point-of-view) for him to have used his original body instead of Jenova's one.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Did Jenova come with a user manual or something? Because again, how would Sephiroth know that, unless he completely lost his body and was desperate enough to do it, in the first place?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

...Cloud was the one that got him the Black Materia.

Which he could have walked in and got at any time he'd wanted prior.

You're also forgetting that he let Cloud have the Black Materia twice just so that he could force him to give it back once, and then break his spirit until he willingly handed it back the second time.

Almost everything up to the point of casting Meteor was dicking with Cloud, including allowing Aerith to get close enough to casting Holy that she actually succeeded when Cloud didn't go through with killing her as Seph planned -- which was, again, about torturing Cloud.

No, I said he was composed of Dark Lifestream >>AS WELL<<, implying there was something else too.

Sorry, I took your use of "as well" the other way. I thought you were using it to mean "In addition to that, in AC/C, he was composed of negative Lifestream."

I'm sorry guys, but I cannot see a logical reason(even from the vanity point-of-view) for him to have used his original body instead of Jenova's one.

It's Sephiroth. If you're looking for logical reasons for behavior, you're looking at the wrong villain.

Would have better luck with Kefka.

 

[Roger]

Me neither.
Logically speaking: he would be even stronger with a pure Jenova-body(+ will and spiritual power) than with his original non-pure one(+ will and spiritual power), wouldn't need to waste 5 years reconstructing it, and would have his bishounen looks through Jenova's shapeshifting.




I'm sorry guys, but I cannot see a logical reason(even from the vanity point-of-view) for him to have used his original body instead of Jenova's one.

He's Sephiroth not Jenova, he wants Sephiroth's body not Jenova's. i'm seriously not seeing the problem here? Wouldn't you want your real body back? Wouldn't anyone?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sephiroth in FFVII wasn't the full evolution or realization of Jenova's powers in the first place. I don't understand why one would expect him to fully utilize or understand the extent of his powers when for all intents and purposes, he's driving blind with them.

 

[Roger]

Which he could have walked in and got at any time he'd wanted prior.

You're also forgetting that he let Cloud have the Black Materia twice just so that he could force him to give it back once, and then break his spirit until he willingly handed it back the second time.

Almost everything up to the point of casting Meteor was dicking with Cloud, including allowing Aerith to get close enough to casting Holy that she actually succeeded when Cloud didn't go through with killing her as Seph planned -- which was, again, about torturing Cloud.

I know Sephiroth seems that way but he's not actually omniscient. Him not entering the Ancient Temple until it was opened may have been because he couldn't enter until it was opened (due to tricking Shinra and Cloud), him arriving two seconds after Cloud picks up the Black Materia may just be because it took him that long to hover down from wherever he was watching the Temple shrink from. Him killing Aerith when Cloud is down and the partymembers were keeping a closer eye on their leader maybe because he felt it was neccesary. (He wasn't gonna win a straight up fight).

 

[OWA-2]

Sephiroth in FFVII wasn't the full evolution or realization of Jenova's powers in the first place. I don't understand why one would expect him to fully utilize or understand the extent of his powers when for all intents and purposes, he's driving blind with them.

Everything in the game, movie, Ultimanias, and interviews, show he had total control over Jenova's abilities, to the point where the creators themselves treat them both as the same entity(using Jenova's name when talking about Sephiroth and vice-versa).
What you are saying goes completelly against everything canon showed us until now.

He's Sephiroth not Jenova, he wants Sephiroth's body not Jenova's. i'm seriously not seeing the problem here? Wouldn't you want your real body back? Wouldn't anyone?

A god is supposed to be perfect, isn't it? And Sephiroth was trying to become one. So why not start with a 'perfect' body, instead of an imperfect one that was already destroyed and would take years to be reformed again?
And don't say "vanity". Shapeshifting already takes care of this problem.

I'm still not seeing it.
Even from the point-of-view of a psychopath and arrogant guy with a god-complex, it still doesn't make sense.

 

[Sigbru]

Maybe Jenova's body can't use materia, so he made it so he could cast meteor?