LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[crack]

No one is to Hojo. Yet he took the time to name Red 13.

Maybe that's because there were twelve other Red's.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Sure, and all the cloaked guys running around sporting numbers had multiple copies of themselves too. Makes sense.

 

[crack]

Sure, and all the cloaked guys running around sporting numbers had multiple copies of themselves too. Makes sense.

Not multiple clones; I doubt Nanaki was the only one of his species being kept captive and experimented upon by Professor Hojo.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Not multiple clones; I doubt Nanaki was the only one of his species being kept captive and experimented upon by Professor Hojo.

I'm pretty sure Hojo himself says that Aerith and Red are the LAST of their kind. So, yeah...

Edit: With the exception of Deneh--who is probably dead by this time and female...so not likely to confuse the 2... 11 or 12 times.

 

[crack]

I'm pretty sure Hojo himself says that Aerith and Red are the LAST of their kind. So, yeah...

Edit: With the exception of Deneh--who is probably dead by this time and female...so not likely to confuse the 2... 11 or 12 times.

The name was derived from Nanaki’s body that was as red as flames and the number 13 used to distinguish between experimental subjects.

So he didn't really name Nanaki. It was just a number he gave him to distinguish all the other test subjects he held captive.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

And Aerith's number is.....?

 

[crack]

wat

 

[Ryushikaze]

First one is when he's telling his story in Kalm. Second is when you find the chocobos on the way to North Corel (I think?) and third is when you try and bust Aerith out of the Shinra building.

I thought the first one was after he explained himself on the highwind.
In any case, coming from Tifa, the first two, especially choco hair, struck me as being said nicely. Sort of like how 'Cloud is Cloud' in response to Yuffie's 'he's such a pain in the butt' sounds.

As for Red XIII- he was the 13th specimen with an overly red color scheme.
Hell, it might not even have anything to do with Nanaki's actual color, knowing Hojo.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

It was just a number he gave him to distinguish all the other test subjects he held captive.

If Aerith was an experiment--what is her number?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

In any case, coming from Tifa, the first two, especially choco hair, struck me as being said nicely. Sort of like how 'Cloud is Cloud' in response to Yuffie's 'he's such a pain in the butt' sounds.

Stupid Cloti. Tifa is never nice and that was clearly meant as a bitch comment to degrade Cloud.

Not at all like when Aerith affectionately calls him: "A messed up kid."

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

If Aerith was an experiment--what is her number?

Is 'hips' a number?

 

[crack]

If Aerith was an experiment--what is her number?

Aerith is not a red furball.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

You'd be right, Ryu:

Aeris and Tifa were awwwing over ze chocobos at the time.

Aerith
"How cute!!"

Tifa
"Yes!! ....how cute."

Cloud
"What should we do?"

<CHOICE>
Take the damn treasure
Leave it where it is

***Cloud
Take the damn treasure

Cloud
"Times are tough... I'm taking the
treasure."

Tifa
"Oh! Cloud! Your hair looks like a
Chocobo!"

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Is 'hips' a number?

I would have called her 'sway'. That girl had some sass when she walked.

 

[Ryushikaze]

The difference though is that Cloud had Tifa and his close friends to reach out to and get help, but he never attempted to make contact because he was fearful what problems would arise; but for Tifa and the rest of AVALANCHE to judge him and mock him based on his problems is highly unlikely and OOC. On the other hand, Aerith actually had the risk of either receiving the help that she needed, or being considered mentally ill.

I'm not saying their external situations are the same, I'm saying they both reacted similarly, not letting other people in because of internalized problems., even though those other people would probably want to help- even if in Aerith's case they might try and help her with therapy.

Also, Z, in Sec 5, if you go around with Aerith, people do talk with her and later about her, and the church kids also seem fond of her as well.
Like I said, Aerith is lonely without being ALONE. Her angst of loneliness comes from lack of people she can or feels she can relate to, not a lack of people willing to try.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Aerith is not a red furball.

**sigh** There were NOT 12 other red furballs. Hojo gave his experiments numbers--yes. Not to 'tell them apart' but to distinguish what experiments they belonged to. This much is fact. It is also fact that Nanaki was the last of his kind. He comments on his number in game and it isn't "oh, it's because there were 20 of my kind and Hojo couldn't tell us apart..."

That's the point.

Hojo gives his experiments numbers.

Aerith's lack of number refutes the claim she was experimented on as a child.

I doubt Hojo would have had interest in her when he had a full blooded Cetra to play with.

 

[Winter]

Are we seriously trying to argue that Hojo wasn't a batshit crazy motherfucker?

He put cells and chemicals in he and Lucrecia's unborn baby, treated her like shit, turned Vincent into a monster, tried to breed Nanaki and Aerith, left Zack and Cloud in test tubes for years, etc.

What the hell would ever suggest that Ifalna and Aerith's time there was anything but an absolute nightmare?

edit: accidentally put Ifalna instead of Lucrecia hurr durr

 

[Shadowfox]

My point is, two months or two years, Cloud managed on his own for a while, in which time he needed to eat and find shelter.

I wouldn't say that Cloud in the aftermath of Zack's death was 'managing on his own'. He looked more like he was only just barely hanging on. If Tifa hadn't found him at the train station, he'd very likely have passed the rest of his limited days as a shambling mass of confusion, much like that fellow in the Midgar slum pipes, where people would look, point at him and say things like, "This guy are sick." And even that meagre existence would come to a quick end when Sephiroth starts calling out for all his copies to come to his reunion party.

 

[looneymoon]

I don't think this is Tifa's attitude at all. Sure, she pussyfoots a lot but it's because she tries to say the best thing possible for the situation and the esteem of anyone else involved. In the case of Red, it was much more sensitive to be positive and upbeat, even if it was forced, for his sake. Her judgement there actually shows strength of character, good emotional competence and while it was an indirect way of dealing with the problem, it certainly wasn't ignoring it.

I can agree with this to an extent, but I was a little weirded out by her adamant refusal of acknowledging Red's worries. It was sort of like "don't worry you're fine BE STRONG stop it Red." I dunno, it's really hard to judge scenes like this when there's no vocal inflection or discernable body language, so I can say it could go either way. I'm just offering the impression it gave me when I first saw it.

But going back to the point I think I'm trying to make, I do feel that AC Tifa is more emotionally competant than FF7 in that she's more confident and doesn't pussyfoot around these issues anymore.

I don't disagree but I will add that every time we've seen her except for when she's with Cloud she's shown a strong independent streak. And really, if Cloud had shown up with a properly formed mind she wouldn't have been nearly as worried about him and therefore as dedicated.

I think that's where the problem may actually start. I've seen the arguement that her character around Cloud is derailment from what she's usually portrayed as. While I disagree with the point, I can see how it may put someone off her character. Please note that I'm playing the devil's advocate when it comes to this.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Like I said, Aerith is lonely without being ALONE. Her angst of loneliness comes from lack of people she can or feels she can relate to

WORD.

Aerith: I'm...... alone..... I'm all alone now...

Cloud: But I'm..... we're here for you, right?

(She shakes her head)

Aerith: I know. I know, but... I am the only.... Cetra.

Cloud: Does that mean we can't help?

 

[Zee]

In any case, coming from Tifa, the first two, especially choco hair, struck me as being said nicely. Sort of like how 'Cloud is Cloud' in response to Yuffie's 'he's such a pain in the butt' sounds.

I thought it was a Tifa way of saying "Hey, you look like its mother and you just robbed from it, you dick."

But in a nicer playful tone.

Aerith's lack of number refutes the claim she was experimented on as a child.

Thanks for letting us know you never played the game.
Aeris didn't need a number--she and her mother were the last of her kind, known only to Hojo as Ancients. Numbers were for the clones only. Aeris' mother died due to heavy experimentation AND I CANNOT FUCKING BELIEVE I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Are we seriously trying to argue that Hojo wasn't a batshit crazy motherfucker?

He put cells and chemicals in he and Ifalna's unborn baby, treated her like shit, turned Vincent into a monster, tried to breed Nanaki and Aerith, left Zack and Cloud in test tubes for years, etc.

What the hell would ever suggest that Ifalna and Aerith's time there was anything but an absolute nightmare?

Hojo was batshit insane, yes. He never had a child with Ilfana. Lucrecia, sure, not Ilfana.

He is a cruel, sadistic fuck. Absolutely. I have no doubt Ilfana suffered gravely. I do doubt that he bothered with Aerith initially. He is rather dismissive of her, even when he has her again. Do I think Aerith was aware that her mother suffered? Absolutely and that probably left some serious scars. It was no picnic, agreed. Was Aerith an experiment? I don't think so. A captive? Yes.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Thanks for letting us know you never played the game.
Aeris didn't need a number--she and her mother were the last of her kind, known only to Hojo as Ancients. Numbers were for the clones only. Aeris' mother died due to heavy experimentation AND I CANNOT FUCKING BELIEVE I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS

Nanaki was a clone? Well, fuck, I missed that explanation in the game. Apparently, you're right. I must not have played that game... huh... odd.

And please, PLEASE, point out to me where I said Aerith's MOTHER wasn't experimented on.

 

[Zee]

Hojo's just the kinda guy that would have an age limit on horrific experimentation.

I mean, forcing a girl under eighteen to have sex with a cat? Absurd! Wait til she's twenty-two, it's far more humane.

 

[Winter]

OOPS THAT ONE WAS A TYPO

I KNOW HE AND IFALNA NEVER MADE BABIES YOU GUYS