The Official "How many parts?" Thread

[The Twilight Mexican]

The characters probably won't know, but a new player now knows that:

- Cloud was never in SOLDIER
- This Zack guy (who is obviously Aerith's boyfriend she was asking about) carried Cloud back to Midgar after he was experimented on by Hojo
- Cloud has Zack's sword
- Cloud killed Sephiroth in Nibelheim five years ago

There isn't even really room for anyone to momentarily believe that perhaps Cloud was a Jenova construct rather than a real person since the black-cloaked guy with a "2" tattoo is recognized as a former member of SOLDIER himself, and thus a real person.

The original game's revelation has definitely been canibalized, and hopefully for something more profound -- or at least more interesting -- than just pulling a wedgie on classic fans. That would be so unspeakably misguided.

 

[ultima786]

The characters probably won't know, but a new player now knows that:

There isn't even really room for anyone to momentarily believe that perhaps Cloud was a Jenova construct rather than a real person since the black-cloaked guy with a "2" tattoo is recognized as a former member of SOLDIER himself, and thus a real person.

This point is too difficult for 99% of new players to have understood so far. When the big twist of FF7 happens (that perhaps Cloud is not real, or perhaps he's soldier, or perhaps he's not, or perhaps his memories are completely false, or or or) they will still be left wondering what the hell is Cloud? The only difference now is, now we OG players don't know either!

 

[Theozilla]

The characters probably won't know, but a new player now knows that:

- Cloud was never in SOLDIER
- This Zack guy (who is obviously Aerith's boyfriend she was asking about) carried Cloud back to Midgar after he was experimented on by Hojo
- Cloud has Zack's sword
- Cloud killed Sephiroth in Nibelheim five years ago

There isn't even really room for anyone to momentarily believe that perhaps Cloud was a Jenova construct rather than a real person since the black-cloaked guy with a "2" tattoo is recognized as a former member of SOLDIER himself, and thus a real person.

The original game's revelation has definitely been canibalized, and hopefully for something more profound -- or at least more interesting -- than just pulling a wedgie on classic fans. That would be so unspeakably misguided.

Actually most Remake first people I know (who like only know that Aerith dies in the OG) don’t come away with the impression that Cloud wasn’t in SOLDIER, the “hints” that seem obvious spoilers to OG players (like Hojo’s cut off dialogue or the DeepGround hallucination/memories), largely goes over most new players’ heads. Though most Remake first players I know immediately go play/watch the OG after finishing the Remake.
Also while said players know that “this Zack guy” (who has the same type of sword as Cloud) had apparently been carrying Cloud to Midgar, none of them have connected the dots that Cloud (or Zack) had been Hojo’s test subject and experimented on.

And even in the OG, even before the identity reveal, it was already assumed Cloud had killed Sephiroth before for a large part of the game, Sephiroth mentioning it as well doesn’t really change much as he can he’ll still easily screw with Cloud’s mind regardless.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And even in the OG, even before the identity reveal, it was already assumed Cloud had killed Sephiroth before for a large part of the game ...

Not at all. Cloud even ends his story in Kalm with the observation that he doesn't remember how his fight with Sephiroth went, but remarks "In terms of skill, I couldn't have killed him."

 

[Theozilla]

Not at all. Cloud even ends his story in Kalm with the observation that he doesn't remember how his fight with Sephiroth went, but remarks "In terms of skill, I couldn't have killed him."

It’s still something the player would easily assume until the twist, since Sephiroth was considered MIA/dead until his reappearance, as even with Cloud’s own lack of confidence in his relatively skill it’s what one would conclude was the case until shown otherwise.
The Remake just makes that assumption explicitly stated by characters, but it’s not a twist-ruining change, as the specifics of how it happened still remain unknown to newcomers.

 

[cold_spirit]

For every developer statement like this:



There's an equal and opposite statement like:



Ultimately, the last word should be given to the game itself. On this topic, Remake plainly states:

 

[Odysseus]

This is why I think it's going to somehow do both things. It will be familiar but go in new directions. Even part 1 feels like it expected you to already know the original plot.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Yeah, I think some people might overestimate the contradictory nature of those two statements and if we look at what they’ve done with part 1, they did remake the Midgar portion of the OG even if the “it’s not a remake, they lied to us reeee” crowd insists otherwise, while also restoring a level of uncertainty that simply would not exist had they just gone by the book.

What they really did was take the limits off of what kinds of layers they can add to the story. Otherwise, I feel like the only kinds of expansions we’d see would be things that specifically fit within the boundaries of the OG like chapter 4. I’m sure some fans would be okay with those restraints but there’s a sentiment I’ve noticed from others that insist they could’ve still changed up the story without a device like the Whispers. And to those fans I wonder: would they honestly really still be okay with that and if not then it doesn’t really matter how they do it, does it? You’re not getting your precious “just the OG story but with new graphics and gameplay” either way, though I don’t quite think they’re not not doing that either.

Just an aside, I found it bizarre that some OG fans thought Barret should’ve died when Sephiroth stabbed him but I highly doubt those same people would be okay with losing his backstory as a result. And so here we all are, still discussing how a 24-year-old story is going to end, that’s already an unknown journey right there, isn’t it? So perhaps we’ll still get all the OG scenes we’re anticipating, but what they mean could be different to varying degrees thanks to these new layers of story added.

I get the feeling that a lot of the “unknown journey” will have to do with giving the Compilation a more complete conclusion while also retelling and recontexualizing the story we already know. If you hated the remake, then there’s probably nothing that can be done to win you over given the devs’ vision for this project but with the largely positive reception to a game that had no business being as good as it was, I doubt the devs are concerned about losing too many fans since their goal doesn’t ultimately seem to be just throwing everything we love out the window. Rather, I think some fans are finding/are going to find that some scenes don’t mean what they thought they meant over 20 years ago. Interesting parallel to the uncertainty of Cloud’s own memories if you ask me.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It’s still something the player would easily assume until the twist, since Sephiroth was considered MIA/dead until his reappearance, as even with Cloud’s own lack of confidence in his relatively skill it’s what one would conclude was the case until shown otherwise.

I certainly didn't, and I've never heard anyone say so, in going-on 24 years.

For that matter, "This dude died and then came back to life" definitely didn't occur to me, and I'd bet every dollar I have that no one else considered that before they considered that he just went into hiding and has been biding his time for [X] reasons.

 

[Shademp]

they did remake the Midgar portion of the OG even if the “it’s not a remake, they lied to us reeee” crowd insists otherwise

You are correct that they did remake the Midgar portion. Cut out the Whispers and much of the two final chapters and we still get what we were promised. I loved the changes done to the environments, the worldbuilding that really makes the places feel lived-in, the improved script, top-notch voice acting, the most godly iteration of action-RPG battle mechanics that I ever did see, etc etc.

I possess all of this appreciation for what the Remake did...but I'm nearing the 1-year anniversary of my playthrough and I still feel betrayed to my core for the Whispers and everything that the ending did. With the recent Yuffie DLC announcement I feel a boost in curiosity but I can't for the life of me pick up the controller and continue playing FFVIIR. The energy is sapped from my entire being and all passion disappears. Technically Square did remake the Midgar portion but they also technically lied to us. This is not a Remake, this is a sequel.

For over 20 years I had dreamt of a Remake and the game delivered so much on that decades-long dream...only to get the ground beneath my feet shattered. I did not play Remake so that I could be humbled by the uncertainty of the future and have my basic expectations shattered. Real life already delivers plenty of those hard-to-swallow pills and even moreso now with covid.

Yet that is entirely what happened and because of this changed context I STILL can't enjoy Remake again. It's fun to speculate on the future with fellow FF7 fans but my emotional investment in what is actually going to happen is depressingly low. Plenty of people seem to "build themselves back up" after that bonkers ending and use speculation to invigorate hype again. That to me seems like the fans doing the hype work FOR Square Enix when the work on its own should accomplish that level of interest. Instead people have to go through all these hoops, reading developer interviews and engaging in big-brain conspiracy theories and speculations to generate an investment in what's to come.

I've said it many times before and I will say it many times again. FFVIIR is the biggest gaming disappointment of my life. The game is awesome but it is also a monument to crushed dreams. Remake is dead and so are my hopes with it.

 

[Odysseus]

I guess for me personally, I'd rather see artists do what they really want to and enjoy themselves rather than slavishly adhere to the expectations fans have for them.

I'm Tim Rogers' stupidly long video about the remake, he called the very idea of remaking FF7 an "existential nightmare" for Square. It's something that had been hanging over them for a very long time, something they kept getting asked about by fans and industry insiders alike. How do you think it felt to get asked "please remake ff7" by the first person to buy FF12 at its launch event? How do you think it felt to, time and time again, fail to surpass a game you made 24 years earlier in terms of public perception and sales? Do you think Nomura wants to be directing the FF7 remake? Nojima writing it? I get the feeling the answer is "no." I'm sure they would rather expend their creativity on something new and original, but here we are. Obviously nobody was forced to do anything, but I have to imagine that having FF7's long shadow hanging over them must be frustrating. I can't be mad if they want to take their own spin on retelling the story to get some creative fulfillment out of it. Of course, that's my opinion. Be dissatisfied if you want to be lol.

 

[Makoeyes987]

In the end, it all depends where it goes. For some the journey is trepidatious, for others entertaining and enjoyable.

We will know how it measures up for sure once we get to the end. And maybe the revalation of the final destination will make others want to set off towards it after all

 

[Roundhouse]

Let us embrace it, whatever it brings.

For Genesis is coming back.

 

[Odysseus]

Gackt will be backt

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It's heartbreaking every time I see sentiments like yours, Shad. Doubly so -- even triply -- coming from you. Especially because I know that my own emotional investment increased exponentially on realizing what we were looking at chronologically with Remake.

I really wonder what accounts for the difference?

Had we been left with just the sense that this is the film reel of the original with extra frames added between the frames with which we were already familiar ... my interest would now be pretty low. I would feel that this first part was a cool experience, but that we're unlikely to get anything from the remainder of the story that rivals the setting and set pieces of the Midgar portion of the game, and so -- no big deal if SE moves on to other things and never finds the time to finish.

Midgar was really the only segment that screamed any degree of hype for me in it being remade anyway, and it still took me until the final pre-release trailer to feel that much excitement (much to the chagrin of @ForceStealer ).

I'll admit I didn't expect to feel this way about the shenanigans they pulled. Initially I was thrown for a loop and sucker punched, just like most people who played the original first. Realizing that I was actually excited about the next installment, though, rather than simply resigned to it was so fucking surreal. I wish I could put that feeling in a syringe and send it to you, @Shademp , I really do.

Or at least the feeling I get when I watch the scene of Zack realizing he's triumphed in the fight that was meant to end his life. That alone -- and imagining Zack dragging his ass into Aerith's church shortly thereafter -- is such a freakin' cool sensation.

 

[Fiz]

You are correct that they did remake the Midgar portion. Cut out the Whispers and much of the two final chapters and we still get what we were promised. I loved the changes done to the environments, the worldbuilding that really makes the places feel lived-in, the improved script, top-notch voice acting, the most godly iteration of action-RPG battle mechanics that I ever did see, etc etc.

I possess all of this appreciation for what the Remake did...but I'm nearing the 1-year anniversary of my playthrough and I still feel betrayed to my core for the Whispers and everything that the ending did. With the recent Yuffie DLC announcement I feel a boost in curiosity but I can't for the life of me pick up the controller and continue playing FFVIIR. The energy is sapped from my entire being and all passion disappears. Technically Square did remake the Midgar portion but they also technically lied to us. This is not a Remake, this is a sequel.

For over 20 years I had dreamt of a Remake and the game delivered so much on that decades-long dream...only to get the ground beneath my feet shattered. I did not play Remake so that I could be humbled by the uncertainty of the future and have my basic expectations shattered. Real life already delivers plenty of those hard-to-swallow pills and even moreso now with covid.

Yet that is entirely what happened and because of this changed context I STILL can't enjoy Remake again. It's fun to speculate on the future with fellow FF7 fans but my emotional investment in what is actually going to happen is depressingly low. Plenty of people seem to "build themselves back up" after that bonkers ending and use speculation to invigorate hype again. That to me seems like the fans doing the hype work FOR Square Enix when the work on its own should accomplish that level of interest. Instead people have to go through all these hoops, reading developer interviews and engaging in big-brain conspiracy theories and speculations to generate an investment in what's to come.

I've said it many times before and I will say it many times again. FFVIIR is the biggest gaming disappointment of my life. The game is awesome but it is also a monument to crushed dreams. Remake is dead and so are my hopes with it.

BIB isn't true. Its more that while some of us like the idea of OG being retold as it was, the idea of something fresh and new is more exciting. While when it was first announced I thought it was cool that we'd get to revisit FFVII, but at the same time, do I really want to invest in 3 or 4 titles only to tread through the same as I've already tread multiple times before? The answer to that is probably not, there is only so much milage pretty graphics and voice acting has.


I'm down with changes, spending time with these characters in this world again is greater than how close to the OG script it is. As long as the whole thing doesn't go completely off the rails then whether I accept it will be based on the merits of what they create.

I guess for me personally, I'd rather see artists do what they really want to and enjoy themselves rather than slavishly adhere to the expectations fans have for them.

I'm Tim Rogers' stupidly long video about the remake, he called the very idea of remaking FF7 an "existential nightmare" for Square. It's something that had been hanging over them for a very long time, something they kept getting asked about by fans and industry insiders alike. How do you think it felt to get asked "please remake ff7" by the first person to buy FF12 at its launch event? How do you think it felt to, time and time again, fail to surpass a game you made 24 years earlier in terms of public perception and sales? Do you think Nomura wants to be directing the FF7 remake? Nojima writing it? I get the feeling the answer is "no." I'm sure they would rather expend their creativity on something new and original, but here we are. Obviously nobody was forced to do anything, but I have to imagine that having FF7's long shadow hanging over them must be frustrating. I can't be mad if they want to take their own spin on retelling the story to get some creative fulfillment out of it. Of course, that's my opinion. Be dissatisfied if you want to be lol.

I agree, if they have new ideas they should be allowed to explore them. It's their baby afterall.

 

[Odysseus]

Usually when things like this come around the fan backlash is universal. I do wonder what it's like to be the odd one out on feeling like something is a huge betrayal when most of the public reception has been overwhelmingly positive. I guess it's kinda like my relationship with Crisis Core lol.

 

[FFShinra]

My original argument that this can possibly be seven parts has not changed with the integrade announcement, to answer the post that revived this thread.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I guess it's kinda like my relationship with Crisis Core lol.

Pretty much.

Or how I feel about most Disney/Marvel at this point.

 

[Fiz]

Usually when things like this come around the fan backlash is universal. I do wonder what it's like to be the odd one out on feeling like something is a huge betrayal when most of the public reception has been overwhelmingly positive. I guess it's kinda like my relationship with Crisis Core lol.

Well, its certainly been polarising for many. I think overall its liked but I don't think being displeased is rare.

On Crisis Core... it has this weird thing where their mouths are flapping away on a loop and it looks like Zack is going "bah, bam, bah" to the background music like a lunatic. That alone was enough for me to warm to it.

 

[ForceStealer]

I thought the ending was stupid as hell, and has sucked a lot of the potential tension and buildup out of future parts. The idea of AC Sephiroth poking around in the past but limited in some way in his actions is something I could see being fun. Just as I was fine with a lot of the earlier segments that just seemed like playful nodding at the fact that the Remake kinda knows that it's a remake. But the idea that Zack can somehow be around while the original party is on a roughly similar trajectory makes no freaking sense at all and basically unravels the greatest narrative moment in the original, is a bridge too far. So yeah, I do hope it fizzles to a stupid nothing. I'd rather it be a blemish on part 1 than on the whole project.
But even with all that, I'm definitely nowhere near Shad's level. The fact that 90% of the game was more than I could have ever imagined is enough for me to be excited to see that kind of treatment to future moments. Assuming any of them still exist.

I guess for me personally, I'd rather see artists do what they really want to and enjoy themselves rather than slavishly adhere to the expectations fans have for them.

I'm Tim Rogers' stupidly long video about the remake, he called the very idea of remaking FF7 an "existential nightmare" for Square. It's something that had been hanging over them for a very long time, something they kept getting asked about by fans and industry insiders alike. How do you think it felt to get asked "please remake ff7" by the first person to buy FF12 at its launch event? How do you think it felt to, time and time again, fail to surpass a game you made 24 years earlier in terms of public perception and sales? Do you think Nomura wants to be directing the FF7 remake? Nojima writing it? I get the feeling the answer is "no." I'm sure they would rather expend their creativity on something new and original, but here we are. Obviously nobody was forced to do anything, but I have to imagine that having FF7's long shadow hanging over them must be frustrating. I can't be mad if they want to take their own spin on retelling the story to get some creative fulfillment out of it. Of course, that's my opinion. Be dissatisfied if you want to be lol.

Boo hoo, people love something you made. There are worse positions to be in
And the idea that most of the remake before the insanity didn't allow them to flex their creative muscles surely seems false by my estimation. And Nojima has made it abundantly clear what it's like when he doesn't want to be working on a given story, so I think he's fine. I'm fine with them indulging themselves to a point.

 

[Eerie]

Yeah, red: the devs' opinions, I think that they want to work on this. If they hadn't, we'd still be waiting for an announcement news. But I do t hink t hat they want to plunge int his world again, that they feel that they can use it to pass a message again. I do think that for most, FFVII *is* special - if it wasn't, we wouldn't have gotten such a Compilation. I feel that their excitement is that they feel that they can share what *their* vision of FFVII was from the start. When they say "in our minds, the characters were always this way", I know it's true - in terms of characterisation, the OG was very limited, but you can see traces of this already. Only now, they can literally show in our faces what those characters were always supposed to be, not how we imagined them - not that they weren't wrong themselves with how they depicted Aerith afterwards.

The characters probably won't know, but a new player now knows that:

- Cloud was never in SOLDIER
- This Zack guy (who is obviously Aerith's boyfriend she was asking about) carried Cloud back to Midgar after he was experimented on by Hojo
- Cloud has Zack's sword
- Cloud killed Sephiroth in Nibelheim five years ago

There isn't even really room for anyone to momentarily believe that perhaps Cloud was a Jenova construct rather than a real person since the black-cloaked guy with a "2" tattoo is recognized as a former member of SOLDIER himself, and thus a real person.

The original game's revelation has definitely been canibalized, and hopefully for something more profound -- or at least more interesting -- than just pulling a wedgie on classic fans. That would be so unspeakably misguided.

When I say that the devs don't have to rely on the same mechanisms as the OG, this is part of why I say this. The way they are storytelling their story is different than what it was in the OG. They use other tricks to make us wonder - especially since there are several games involved. That's why they want everyone to be aware of the OG. Because it's the OG, it's the Compilation, but it's different. We're ending tricked nonetheless. We're supposed to have the OG and Compilation knowledge.

This point is too difficult for 99% of new players to have understood so far. When the big twist of FF7 happens (that perhaps Cloud is not real, or perhaps he's soldier, or perhaps he's not, or perhaps his memories are completely false, or or or) they will still be left wondering what the hell is Cloud? The only difference now is, now we OG players don't know either!

This is why I think it's going to somehow do both things. It will be familiar but go in new directions. Even part 1 feels like it expected you to already know the original plot.

True enough. But there were hints too in the OG. Like True!Cloud asking SOLDIER!Cloud where was Tifa in Nibelheim in his dream. It was supposed to be an indicator that something is wrong. Remake takes everything and expands on everything - and we're supposed to see big hints now that something is wrong with Cloud. I'll say it, but it could be possible that the Lifestream scene even happens before Aerith dies this time around. We don't know. Might be, might not. Since I'm replaying the OG, I see things that could be more streamlined into a more cohesive story, and I wonder if that's not their approach. Do I think that Remake part 2 etc. will be very different from the OG? Yes. But I also think that everything will feel like the OG and will end up like the OG. Part 1 is very different from the OG, yet we end up exactly at the same place than at the end of the OG. It feels like FFVII, with better characterisation, a bit more padding - which is natural since the OG was so fast - and some new things. This is how I expect part 2 and others to be.

 

[ultima786]

I've said it many times before and I will say it many times again. FFVIIR is the biggest gaming disappointment of my life. The game is awesome but it is also a monument to crushed dreams. Remake is dead and so are my hopes with it.

I don't mean to be dismissive, but you are still going to play part two, even if you aren't hopeful for its future. The way they did it, they have everyone slavishly anticipating what is next.

 

[Makoeyes987]

They literally said they wouldn't, did you not read the rest of their post?

 

[Shademp]

I wish I could put that feeling in a syringe and send it to you

THE SAUCE

<3

but you are still going to play part two

I am honestly not sure about that. Even if I had the money to spare, I feel no pull at present to play the Yuffie DLC when it comes out. I will be watching people stream it and watch it on YouTube, but nothing more.

Who knows how I will feel 2-4 years from now when Part 2 comes out. Maybe I will have healed, maybe I will not. The thing is that if I would ever get a PS5 it would be because of FFVIIR, same as I got a PS4 only because of FFVIIR. My chances of playing future installments will increase when the game gets out on PC because I know sooner or later I will get a more powerful gaming PC anyway.

It's a question of heartbreak and I have a history of not recovering for many, many, years...if at all.