The Official "How many parts?" Thread

[ForceStealer]

The way they did it, they have everyone slavishly anticipating what is next.

I mean if they had reached the end of the highway, looked out at the horizon of the world and it just faded to black with a "See you space cowboy," I would have felt way more anticipation than I actually did

 

[Makoeyes987]

M.O.T.O.R. would literally have been the lamest final boss possible.

People were speculating about how they'd replace it with something/someone even before we knew what Chapter 18 contained. So that was never gonna happen. Sephiroth was ironically the perfect choice. The next best one would have been Jenova.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Technically Square did remake the Midgar portion but they also technically lied to us. This is not a Remake, this is a sequel.

But...it isn’t? A sequel implies you’d have to play the OG and the Compilation to follow the narrative and seeing as we’ve all done that and still don’t know what the hell is happening, I’m less inclined to call this a sequel. I know some new players might be interested to play the OG after the remake but I don’t think you have to do it really.

That to me seems like the fans doing the hype work FOR Square Enix when the work on its own should accomplish that level of interest. Instead people have to go through all these hoops, reading developer interviews and engaging in big-brain conspiracy theories and speculations to generate an investment in what's to come.

I don’t know if this is a fair statement, the reception to the game was pretty positive and none of this hype would exist if not for the work itself

For over 20 years I had dreamt of a Remake and the game delivered so much on that decades-long dream...only to get the ground beneath my feet shattered. I did not play Remake so that I could be humbled by the uncertainty of the future and have my basic expectations shattered. Real life already delivers plenty of those hard-to-swallow pills and even moreso now with covid.

It’s unfortunate that you feel that way about the remake, and I hope somehow it wins you over in the future. I guess I just don’t find anything particularly disappointing about this game. Is it stupid? Yes, but there’s plenty of stupidity in the OG. Does it betray the OG? Some people may think so but clearly the people who actually made it don’t feel that way and with how positive the reception is, I wonder where the disconnect lies exactly. Is it different? In some ways yes but they still faithfully remade what they said they would even with what they’ve added. So it’s like, I can understand these feelings but I just don’t see this direction as anything too subversive, at least not yet and certainly not to a point deserving of some of the most dramatic reactions I’ve seen. Like damn, you’d think Zack bashed Cloud’s head in with a golf club while Tifa helplessly watched or something with how some people reacted to this game lol.

Admittedly, I’m not in the best position to understand this sentiment seeing as I played the OG for the first time shortly before the remake. But I guess my feeling about all of this is that despite all of the fanfare, how much has actually changed? Are the characters really in that much of a different place than where they were in the OG? We can talk about the execution of the ending, sure, but as for what it means for the rest of the story, we simply aren’t there yet so there’s only so much I can say before all I have left is to make judgements on what might be rather than what is.

But the idea that Zack can somehow be around while the original party is on a roughly similar trajectory makes no freaking sense at all and basically unravels the greatest narrative moment in the original, is a bridge too far. So yeah, I do hope it fizzles to a stupid nothing. I'd rather it be a blemish on part 1 than on the whole project.

Well we don’t know anything else about Zack other than what they’ve shown us so I don’t think any of us are in a position to make conclusions yet. I will say though, I don’t think they went through all this trouble just for it to be little more than a drop in the ocean and it’d be pretty pointless if it was. Where they go with this is what matters most to me more than any wild idea in itself...or most ideas, at least. I can tolerate some pretty ridiculous stuff but I’ve got my limits too lol.

I guess for me personally, I'd rather see artists do what they really want to and enjoy themselves rather than slavishly adhere to the expectations fans have for them.

I'm Tim Rogers' stupidly long video about the remake, he called the very idea of remaking FF7 an "existential nightmare" for Square. It's something that had been hanging over them for a very long time, something they kept getting asked about by fans and industry insiders alike. How do you think it felt to get asked "please remake ff7" by the first person to buy FF12 at its launch event? How do you think it felt to, time and time again, fail to surpass a game you made 24 years earlier in terms of public perception and sales? Do you think Nomura wants to be directing the FF7 remake? Nojima writing it? I get the feeling the answer is "no." I'm sure they would rather expend their creativity on something new and original, but here we are. Obviously nobody was forced to do anything, but I have to imagine that having FF7's long shadow hanging over them must be frustrating. I can't be mad if they want to take their own spin on retelling the story to get some creative fulfillment out of it. Of course, that's my opinion. Be dissatisfied if you want to be lol.

This is absolutely my attitude when it comes to stuff like this. If anybody thought this game was a cash grab before, imagine if they didn’t even want to remake the game. And yet the irony here is that had they gone for something more true to the OG even if they were uninspired to do so because “screw it, let’s just rehash what we already did and get it over with already” I imagine the purists who didn’t like the remake might be more satisfied.

M.O.T.O.R. would literally have been the lamest final boss possible.

People were speculating about how they'd replace it with something/someone even before we knew what Chapter 18 contained. So that was never gonna happen. Sephiroth was ironically the perfect choice. The next best one would have been Jenova.

Yeah, a Sephiroth fight was inevitable. No way we’d wait even longer just to face him. Hell, one of the reasons I think we could get three parts is because I can’t think of another excuse to put in a Sephiroth fight for each part other than having Cloud fight him in the Nibelheim flashback for part 2 and then saving the last fight for the end of part 3.

If we go as far as the Forgotten City or the Northern Crater, Jenova’s an obvious pick for a final boss. Or maybe they could do something with Zack. If not a final boss, I at least wonder if we can get a Cloud and Zack fight with Cloud just completely mindscrewed because he doesn’t remember who Zack is yet. Or another idea is maybe a boss fight against a Jenova-influenced Cloud?

 

[ultima786]

They literally said they wouldn't, did you not read the rest of their post?

Of course I read it. I am saying, I think by the time part 2 is out, Shademp will be back! Normally one does not invest so much of their effort, time, and lives only to dismiss future installments based off of fear. Eventually, those feelings will subside and we'll be ready for whatever they bring. We can judge it on its own terms then. I'm not trying to be hurtful, I'm saying, the feelings of anxiety and disappointment and fear are all fine to have, but there is a likelyhood those same folks will look back and say, "Well played, Kitase and Nomura." Honestly, considering how quality 95% of the game is... the rest of the mystery could be purposely controversial to generate buzz that will eventually sort itself out.

I am honestly not sure about that. Even if I had the money to spare, I feel no pull at present to play the Yuffie DLC when it comes out. I will be watching people stream it and watch it on YouTube, but nothing more.

Who knows how I will feel 2-4 years from now when Part 2 comes out. Maybe I will have healed, maybe I will not. The thing is that if I would ever get a PS5 it would be because of FFVIIR, same as I got a PS4 only because of FFVIIR. My chances of playing future installments will increase when the game gets out on PC because I know sooner or later I will get a more powerful gaming PC anyway.

It's a question of heartbreak and I have a history of not recovering for many, many, years...if at all.

The Yuffie DLC I understand, sorta. I am hopefully they'll explain some big issues though, like why the Whispers were swarming the Shinra building.

All-in-all, I really do think that if the game is "fun" and "entertaining", then I see no reason why people who were disappointed by part 1 can't be willing to spend some bucks to play if if they have the money and can afford it.

I mean this with all-due-respect. If you can take the following words as me just sharing with a group of superfans, then read on: I think the disappointment is fine but feeling 'hurt' by Remake is misplaced and all of us should get over this. The developers are artists who owe us nothing, and we shouldn't feel like we are owed anything. If we aren't interested anymore due to apathy, that's all-well, but we need to try to move on from being hurt by it. I know alot of people who, when they looked at it this way, they actually appreciated and enjoyed Remake for what it was, and realized not only was Remake good and faithful in many ways, it actually is genuinely better in many ways than OG, as well.

In a word, deciding to not buy it cuz apathy is fine. But deciding not to by it cuz bitterness? That doesn't compute.

 

[ForceStealer]

M.O.T.O.R. would literally have been the lamest final boss possible.

People were speculating about how they'd replace it with something/someone even before we knew what Chapter 18 contained. So that was never gonna happen. Sephiroth was ironically the perfect choice. The next best one would have been Jenova.

I didn't need a "final boss" at the end of part 1, personally, regardless of how realistic it was. Though Roche or some other SOLDIER would have been fine I guess.
Meanwhile that there has to be a Sephiroth fight at the end of every part in order to avoid having a "lame" final boss is ironically likely to make the last fight with Sephiroth quite lame itself.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No, the fact we got a Sephiroth as a final boss for Part 1 makes it far less likely we'll have him be one again until the final battle. They're not dumb, they wouldn't repeat it lol

We got the "taste" of such an epic battle to tide us over until the final battle actually happens. The next final boss we'll have will more than likely be Jenova. And then after that, a Weapon.

 

[Shademp]

it actually is genuinely better in many ways than OG, as well.

Fun fact: I've been supremely bored with the OG for years.

I genuinely think that FFVIIR is leagues better than the original game. Square Enix showed with FFVIIR that they can approach and reach modern "triple-A" quality in games, which is far more than I would have expected from Square. The excellent dialogue and voice acting alone has no right to exist, given the mediocre dialogue I usually associate their titles with. I still can hardly comprehend that we live in a timeline where Square developed a title of such high quality.

The developers indeed owe me nothing. I have more sympathy for their burden, always living in the shadow of the original FF7 as Odysseus put it, than I have bitterness towards them for "lying" about Remake. But my heart remains broken and there is nothing I can do about it other than wait. I know from experience that I can't force my heart to heal. The pain only gets worse if I try. So all I can do is wait.

 

[ultima786]

Fun fact: I've been supremely bored with the OG for years.

I genuinely think that FFVIIR is leagues better than the original game. Square Enix showed with FFVIIR that they can approach and reach modern "triple-A" quality in games, which is far more than I would have expected from Square. The excellent dialogue and voice acting alone has no right to exist, given the mediocre dialogue I usually associate their titles with. I still can hardly comprehend that we live in a timeline where Square developed a title of such high quality.

The developers indeed owe me nothing. I have more sympathy for their burden, always living in the shadow of the original FF7 as Odysseus put it, than I have bitterness towards them for "lying" about Remake. But my heart remains broken and there is nothing I can do about it other than wait. I know from experience that I can't force my heart to heal. The pain only gets worse if I try. So all I can do is wait.

OK so let's move this conversation to: What could the Whispers become that would unbreak the heart?

I've been thinking about this a lot. I think there is already a strong indication from Aerith that the Whispers are just the Cries of the Planet. If part 2 can simply show how Gaia has emotions, feelings, and these are manifestations of those misplaced feelings.... in a word, if they can explain how they are closely tied to OG lore, would this help? We would still have to grapple with the new element of 'time' which APPEARS to be an addition to the original lore. But to me, believing that the Lifestream is just an eternal, timeless flow would be more than enough to resolve their ability to act across history.

Edit: I should add, did they lie about Remake?

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

OK so let's move this conversation to: What could the Whispers become that would unbreak the heart?

I've been thinking about this a lot. I think there is already a strong indication from Aerith that the Whispers are just the Cries of the Planet. If part 2 can simply show how Gaia Planet the Kid has emotions, feelings, and these are manifestations of those misplaced feelings.... in a word, if they can explain how they are closely tied to OG lore, would this help? We would still have to grapple with the new element of 'time' which APPEARS to be an addition to the original lore. But to me, believing that the Lifestream is just an eternal, timeless flow would be more than enough to resolve their ability to act across history.

Ninja-fix.

I should add, did they lie about Remake?

I don't think they exactly lied, but talking about how big Midgar was that you'd have to ride a motorcycle was at least a bit misleading, unless some translator messed with words (haven't checked). Maybe someone else has other examples of misleading things. No biggie for me, though.

 

[KindOfBlue]

in a word, if they can explain how they are closely tied to OG lore, would this help?

I mean, the purpose of the Whispers preserving destiny isn’t all that different from the Weapons defending the planet...what they’ve seemingly done really is taken elements of the Weapons and the Lifestream and leaned more into the time stuff that was only alluded to previously

Edit: I should add, did they lie about Remake?

I didn’t follow the promotions much so I can’t really say, but did they remake the Midgar portion of the story as they said they would? Yes, they did

Fun fact: I've been supremely bored with the OG for years.

I genuinely think that FFVIIR is leagues better than the original game. Square Enix showed with FFVIIR that they can approach and reach modern "triple-A" quality in games, which is far more than I would have expected from Square. The excellent dialogue and voice acting alone has no right to exist, given the mediocre dialogue I usually associate their titles with. I still can hardly comprehend that we live in a timeline where Square developed a title of such high quality.

The developers indeed owe me nothing. I have more sympathy for their burden, always living in the shadow of the original FF7 as Odysseus put it, than I have bitterness towards them for "lying" about Remake. But my heart remains broken and there is nothing I can do about it other than wait. I know from experience that I can't force my heart to heal. The pain only gets worse if I try. So all I can do is wait.

Even if the heartbreak feeling still seems a bit hyperbolic to me, you certainly have a much better attitude than most of the remake’s detractors

 

[Odysseus]

I didn't mean to get a whole thing going about if Shademp should like the remake or not lol. The man is free to like what he likes and dislike what he dislikes. I was just trying to say that things being different was basically inevitable because Nomura, Nojima and the rest of them are very creative people, and being that they're remaking the game they've been stuck in the shadow of for most of their careers, they're gonna do it their way. I agree with Tres that the prospect of something new is much more exciting than the alternative, but I know not everyone is going to feel that way, and that's fine.
I just think throwing around terms like betrayal and heartbreak is a bit dramatic lol.

 

[Fiz]

I should add, did they lie about Remake?

I think this comes down to a never ending argument about what the word "remake" means, where some people start using very rigid definitions whereas others consider the term remake to be more fluid. It ends up boiling down to what level of change constitutes it not being a remake at all. That in itself is so subjective as to be meaningless.

There are people who think moving away from turn based is an affront to the original and makes Remake a lie. Others feel like whether the battles are turn based or action is irrelevant. Then there are people who think any change in dialogue has bastardised the original, I've seen people having hissy fits over stuff that to me seems ridiculous... some that even border on the unhinged (nobody here, I mean like in YT reaction videos, some people are a bit... weird). Then there are other people who consider Remake to be really faithful despite the changes because most of it is.

I think people who claim they've been lied to are wrong, because if a company ever says they're remaking something then I would assume some fluidity over what that might mean. But at the same time, nobody is going to change anyones minds because what passes as OK is subjective.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I didn't mean to get a whole thing going about if Shademp should like the remake or not lol. The man is free to like what he likes and dislike what he dislikes. I was just trying to say that things being different was basically inevitable because Nomura, Nojima and the rest of them are very creative people, and being that they're remaking the game they've been stuck in the shadow of for most of their careers, they're gonna do it their way. I agree with Tres that the prospect of something new is much more exciting than the alternative, but I know not everyone is going to feel that way, and that's fine.
I just think throwing around terms like betrayal and heartbreak is a bit dramatic lol.

NO. He’s going to SHUT UP, SIT HIS ASS DOWN in that chair and DRINK his GODDAMN REMAKE!

For real though, I do hope the remake wins over more people as time goes on. Can’t please everybody of course, but I just don’t have it in me to get too worked up over pixels these days. It is what it is.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

For all I know, I'll end up hating the remake by its end despite my present excitement, so who but Sephiroth -- and to a lesser extent Aerith -- knows what the future holds.

And Nojima has made it abundantly clear what it's like when he doesn't want to be working on a given story ...

I mostly figured that was his idea and he was processing some mid-life shit. He's not been a Square employee per se for a good many years now, so I suspect he writes what he feels compelled to and SE entertains his impulses. "The Kids Are Alright," for example, came completely out of nowhere, at a time when FFVII and the Compilation were so far on the back burner they had fallen behind the stove.

A sequel implies you’d have to play the OG and the Compilation to follow the narrative and seeing as we’ve all done that and still don’t know what the hell is happening, I’m less inclined to call this a sequel.

I think most of us use "sequel" to mean "occurs successively in a fictional continuity's sequence of events." By our (mostly) common understanding that Remake is -- as a matter of cause and effect -- happening because the original game's sequence of events happened, that fulfills the qualification.

Some may get into a tizzy over whether it's accurate to claim "Finding Dory" is a sequel or a spin-off, but I'm going to call it a sequel and get on with gettin' on.

 

[ultima786]

I didn't mean to get a whole thing going about if Shademp should like the remake or not lol. The man is free to like what he likes and dislike what he dislikes. I was just trying to say that things being different was basically inevitable because Nomura, Nojima and the rest of them are very creative people, and being that they're remaking the game they've been stuck in the shadow of for most of their careers, they're gonna do it their way. I agree with Tres that the prospect of something new is much more exciting than the alternative, but I know not everyone is going to feel that way, and that's fine.
I just think throwing around terms like betrayal and heartbreak is a bit dramatic lol.

i think the word 'heartbreak' is real enough for a lot of people. The fact that this game means SO MUCH to people ... it's kinda expected that some or even many would feel heartbreak at changes like what we saw. All i'm saying is, if we can emerge from that feeling realizing that we were treating OG like a family member that we felt were entitled to a certain type of experience, a certain feeling, a certain love and honoring... when we can move past that it was US who were privelaged to experience this heart-felt story and characters.... we will realize we can experience the FF7 world anew without all the strings attached. That's my humble take.

...Like why is Aerith more powerful this time? We could make hours of commentary exploring the vast meta-narrative devices and lore across all of the compilation and related novels to find an answer OR...we shrug our shoulders, just say “because they remade the story and she can do that now” and move on. Now, if they firmly establish that the OG already happened in-universe, then I’ll be more inclined to call it a sequel.

I think enjoying the OG's relation to Remake gives it spice and context and more meaning. It doesn't have to devolve into feeling betrayed. It appears clear to me though, with all the flash-backs (flash forwards?) in remake that the developers do have a layer of meaning that cannot be fully appreciated without OG and some sense that "this new story wants the old story to be on your mind as you experience it."

 

[Theozilla]

For every developer statement like this:

View attachment 9434

There's an equal and opposite statement like:

View attachment 9435

Ultimately, the last word should be given to the game itself. On this topic, Remake plainly states:

View attachment 9436

I personally don't consider those two statements contradictory or equally opposite of each. Like change the subject to the 1933 King Kong to the 2005 King Kong, or Manhunter 1986 and Red Dragon 2002 or the Hannibal TV series to each other. They all tell the same the same general story and are not completely different but they are also new story takes and there is a level of unknown going into the new takes on the story, but none of those aforementioned examples are sequels to each other either.

I certainly didn't, and I've never heard anyone say so, in going-on 24 years.

For that matter, "This dude died and then came back to life" definitely didn't occur to me, and I'd bet every dollar I have that no one else considered that before they considered that he just went into hiding and has been biding his time for [X] reasons.

Eh, I've seen others assume that. But either way my greater point is that even with than change between the Remake and OG, it doesn't really spoil or ruin the upcoming twist for the characters or new players as their still remains a mystery of what exactly happened during the Nibelheim incident. And it would be completely in character for Sephiroth to use parts of the truth initially then twist it later just to gaslight and mess with Cloud's head.

This is where I disagree though, I don't think you need to go into any massive meta discussion or deep dive of the compilation.

Spoiler

Using Aerith as an example, it's alluding strongly that Aerith is already kinda dead and is now something different to what she was in OG.

A few examples of this...

1. The flash forwards showing her death (this makes it not a straight up Remake)
2. Chadley tries to Access her and can't, commenting that something is unfathomable about her
3. Marlene pulls away from her looking a little scared, Aerith tells her to shush, then Marlene to my eyes looked like she was checking Aerith is actually physically real when she reaches her hand out to her.
4. Marlene then comments that "Aerith is kinda..." and stops

Then load everything else about her new powers on top of it and I don't think we need a huge discussion to conclude that the likely completion of that sentence is probably "Aerith is kinda a ghost" - or something along those lines. Probably more like we are seeing Guardian of the Planet Aerith in a physical form rather than OG Aerith.

I don't think "is this history repeating itself after the compilation" is really the interesting thing to discuss, I tend towards questions like "is Aerith even mortal?" in Remake, or are her and Sephiroth "something else"?

To firmly establish now amounts to spoiling the plot of Remake, and in execution I don't think its a sequel in the normal sense, I think its a remake and a sequel in one. Remake isn't being subtle.

I really agree with @KindOfBlue on this matter, all that stuff you listed doesn't equal Aerith being a ghost or a Kaworu-esque time-traveler/looper, it seems far more simple to just interpret that Aerith can do that stuff and is more mysterious simply because as already stated it's “because they remade the story and she can do that now” than trying to interpret that as evidence of Aerith looping and being someone who has already experienced the OG events.

I could understand viewing the Remake as a "spiritual sequel" to the OG and Compilation in the sense that the Remake draws upon previous works as part of its creation and players who experienced the OG and Compilation can have an enhanced appreciation and understanding of the Remake.
But calling the Remake as sequel in the definition that its own narrative "occurs successively in a fictional continuity's sequence of events" in relation to the OG, like the Rebuild Evangelion films are to the TV series and End of Evangelion, just doesn't have enough evidence yet IMO. Currently it just seems like a Remake with a lot self-referential meta stuff in it, but nothing that firmly says the events of the OG have already occurred in some form already in the Remake's continuity/universe.

 

[Torrie]

I initially voted for 3 parts because indeed it would be nice to have a good old trilogy BUT the recent bunch of news makes me consider it to be just a two-installment project. We've got the Yuffie DLC and The First Soldier coming out this year, Ever Crisis next year, hopefully the PC port of Part 1 somewhere in-between. In 2023 they will have been working on Part 2 for four years already, which... sounds like a perfect prediction, doesn't it? They might be feeding us teasers and EC chapters throughout 2023 and release Part 2 at the end of the year, or in early 2024.

I predict Part 2 to be a lengthy game vastly different from Part 1 and the OG respectively. I'm on board with those people who were theorizing about re-utilizing the already existing assets, and I'm hoping to see everything streamlined and the unnecessary stuff cut out. I'm all for the story and for sidequests. Splitting everything into several parts would mean gradually losing the attention of the public, and coming up with a powerful boss at the end of each installment, but who could be more powerful and impressive than the silver-haired evil himself? Anyone else would be tremendously underwhelming.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

On topic, but still fun for the Zack Is Alive club.

7 parts total:

Part 1 -> Part 1 Mirror with Zack
Part 2 -> Part 2 Mirror with Zack
Part 3 -> Part 3 Mirror with Zack
Part 4 (Conclusion)

 

[Chocobo Eater]

I initially voted for 3 parts because indeed it would be nice to have a good old trilogy BUT the recent bunch of news makes me consider it to be just a two-installment project.

Y'know what... I think two parts may very well be possible. Unlikely (and I hope not), but possible. I'm leaning towards three parts now for the same reasons you stated. (My initial vote was four.)

 

[oty]

Going back to the original notion of the thread, I don't know if yall answered before, but would you prefer quick, short chapters, much more rapid launch of course, or long, full games with the traditional SE development time?

 

[Theozilla]

Going back to the original notion of the thread, I don't know if yall answered before, but would you prefer quick, short chapters, much more rapid launch of course, or long, full games with the traditional SE development time?

I’d definitely prefer the latter.

Also I think numerous shorter games would likely ending up financially costing more for both the consumer and SE. As I can’t imagine the shorter games being discounted that much (especially if they are sold physically each time) as most video games are already sold at an initial loss.

Like 3-4 big games sold at $60 equals $180-240 total.

While 7-8 small games sold at $40 (and that’s being generous as Miles Morales, a short PS5 game is sold at $50) equals $280-320 total.

 

[rkss]

Three plus countless DLCs.
Four is an unlucky number in JP culture. I don't think they will ever finish it at 4

 

[Roundhouse]

If that's the case, I'm assuming 5.

 

[Theozilla]

Three plus countless DLCs.
Four is an unlucky number in JP culture. I don't think they will ever finish it at 4

While 4 is an unlucky number in Japanese culture, I doubt the superstition holds that much power over deciding major business decisions. Like by that logic FF4 and DQ4 would not have been made either.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Nor FFVIII and FFIX would be 4 CD's long.