SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Maidenofwar]

I got the cat remember, rest of the game still flowed naturally to me.

If you think I put that unfairly what I mean is it's like these parts were "acts" or "parts" that had follow ups. For CTs they put in the kiss as follow up to Gongaga, for CAs they put in hand holding as an answer to the take my hand line.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Aerith's behavior can be explained by her philosophy on life. Cherish every moment like it's your last. Her hanging out with Cloud is her trying to make memories and pushing the philosophy she has of cherishing every moment.

- oh I agree if you look at it this way I think rather than regretting on not doing it she just wanna do everything she can while we're in the moment.

This part of Retrilogy is showing that Aerith is torn about her feelings and expanding on her monologue but she is grateful to Cloud because as we can see thanks to him she got out of the cage of Sector 5 and got to see the world, we see Cloud's kindness here and why people actually like him.

Zack's somehow is able to return "somehow' a memory - remember he did promise her to see the 'sky' and ironically Cloud's and everyone in the team is able to show her 'blue skies not scary anymore'


Once we have the PC release btw I'm gonna think twice before doing that 'Rendezvous in Costa del Sol Side Quest" my arm literally hurts

 

[Yoru]

I think what more people should take into consideration here is Aerith's monologue outlines exactly what she feels. She does fall for Cloud eventually. But she is torn about it because he reminds her of Zack. She wants to move on but is it really moving on? She isn't sure and she feels guilt because she thinks it's cruel to forget about Zack and be happy without him.

Also I really don't think it's insidious in any universe to be 22 and have feelings for someone or be torn about it. Regardless of the situation humans have complicated emotions. That is people's personal feelings which is fine but personal feelings should also be put aside if we want to analyze something.

Aerith's behavior can be explained by her philosophy on life. Cherish every moment like it's your last. Her hanging out with Cloud is her trying to make memories and pushing the philosophy she has of cherishing every moment.

And we see what happens when she gets an accidental fall and almost kiss moment she pulls away just as much as Cloud does. I'm sure the devs put that in on purpose.

Also the elephant in the room. It was a love triangle, by definition both girls have feelings for the guy. That's how love triangles work. It's a fictional story that used a love triangle and it's definitely not the first nor last that includes a childhood friend and someone the dude just met falling for him. Kimagure Orange Road was also pretty famous back then. It's not meant to be treated as seriously as it was. Aerith and Tifa have feelings for Cloud because the story was set up that way. It was set up that way to reveal the mystery of Cloud's identity through characters outside him.

Also this was the 90's. I don't think they ever really fleshed out much of anything in OG much less character feelings in anything deeper than a few cutscenes and even then people didn't think it was clear. I can also point out they never established what it was about Cloud that made Tifa fall for him either. Or Jessie even. But we accepted she does it until the compilation (tho you saw how people reacted to that) and ReTrilogy and TOTP dived in deeper.

This part of Retrilogy is showing that Aerith is torn about her feelings and expanding on her monologue but she is grateful to Cloud because as we can see thanks to him she got out of the cage of Sector 5 and got to see the world, we see Cloud's kindness here and why people actually like him. We see why multiple girls would fall for him. He is a good guy, he helps people, he is caring etc. We don't need to be told. I think the intent of ReTrilogy has been to reinforce what was already in OG and make everything clearer and they're doing a good job.

I can get behind that. Like I was saying, with only the 1997 material or parts of the Compilation stuff, it's totally ok. It's just that I thought we were going somewhere else with Rebirth. Maybe I'll have to do other runs. But I really felt we we're leaving this basic love triangle behind us. And that last date didn't work for me.

 

[Maidenofwar]

It definitely is, It still baffles me that people try to act as if Aeriths trying to hit in cloud is ok. This is limited to if she's seriously trying to seduce Cloud ofcourse but if she is that's wormtongue levels of disgusting, that would make me dislike her more than cait sith.


This is the biggest false equivelancy I've ever seen.

Strongly disagree with all of this.

If it's "bad" for Aerith to shoot her shot knowing Tifa likes Cloud it's equally as "bad" for Tifa to shoot her shot knowing Aerith likes Cloud or thinks she does, doubt the intentions was for either of them to be seen as bad though. I don't see it as that extreme for them.

Cait Sith was done a lot better in this game anyway, and Reeve in Remake/here.

 

[hytekz]

Strongly disagree with all of this.

If it's "bad" for Aerith to shoot her shot knowing Tifa likes Cloud it's equally as "bad" for Tifa to shoot her shot knowing Aerith likes Cloud or thinks she does, doubt the intentions was for either of them to be seen as bad though.

Does Tifa knows that Aerith as a thing for Cloud though? The only conversation we know they probably had is about their first love, so Tifa's feelings for Cloud and Aerith's for Zack.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I disagree though. The references are there.

No Promises to Keep is the theme song of the game, of course it's important to an extent.

• okay this is the last I'm gonna reply about a 'song' as evidence of C/A
• ITS NOT THE THEME SONG OF THE GAME - its just one of the songs inside the game' there are many songs and music specially created by Nobuo Uematsu and NPTK are just one of them.

However there's a specic exception on this one because Aerith's singing scene is an exact CARBON COPY in reference to the movie itself and plus Loren Allred also sang it ( same singer on that movie ) so there's a different crediting needs to be highlighted on this one.

 

[CldS7]

thats my point

no one fucking knows if Aerith actually likes Cloud cause the game doesnt even try and show that she actually 'like likes him"

the last Aerith scene is literally a direct parallel of Tifa in a Traces of Two Paths

Tifa knows what she "like likes". Aerith doesnt know what "she like likes"

the whole game has so many TOTP references in it. It definitely seems like a reference to that

 

[Maidenofwar]

It's the theme song, like Hollow is a theme song. I didn't say it was evidence of CA.

 

[Hix]

Does Tifa knows that Aerith as a thing for Cloud though?

Does anyone? Yuffie manages to sus out Cloud/Tifa's mutual romantic feelings within days of joining the group. Yet she doesn't seem to be aware of any such dynamic with Cloud/Aerith despite the latter being seemingly quite pushy and overt, especially in comparison to the more reserved Tifa, on the subject.

Similarly, do we really know Aerith has a thing for Cloud? There's no unambiguous moment, no segment that presents itself that cannot be explained in a platonic way. Further, there are plenty of moments that cast doubt on the matter, least of all that Aerith admits to loving another man.

ToTP establishes both Aerith and Tifa as deep friends with zero feelings of rivalry. How is the latter possible unless they are ignorant of each other's love lives or, alternatively, they are fully aware of each other's love lives and they aren't in competition?

The simplest explanation is that she has feelings, but they aren't so clear cut and are muddied excessively by the fact that she never had closure on Zack and, ultimately, hasn't moved on from him.

 

[Eerie]

Can we please tone down the Aerith bashing and understand that she's a complex character who has been quite faithfully written to her core character? Also for everyone's sake, stop discussing the dates as if one was more canon and made more sense than any other, they all make sense because Cloud is acting faithfully to his own characterisation with each character.

NPTK is a contradiction if we connect it to the ending; they have no promises to keep between them but in the end Cloud "promises" to defeat Sephiroth xD

The "promise" from Cloud is actually a mistranslation. Which explains how this flows much better in JP (the FR also has that mistranslation). Also I've said it to me NTPK feels more like her singing to both Cloud and Zack but whatever. It also fits the ending.

Coming back to Aerith's characterisation, I think we should separate two Aerith: the one we have in game and have had since REMAKE, and the one who appears at the dream date who is more akin to CoLW!Aerith to me. I separate the two because I am not sure that CoLW!Aerith had the same experience as "our" Aerith. To me the dream date speaks of something more meta between the relationship of Cloud - Aerith - Zack and how, in each universe, it will keep repeating.

Now, onto "our" Aerith: she is 22, discovering the world, wanting to visit and see everything, wanting to have fun, crushing on the guy who reminds her of her first love, whom she still hasn't moved on from. It's her big adventure, the one that her mother promised her when she was a kid. This is Aerith, as she is presented to us, and as she was in the OG, just expanded upon.

Personally what I regret is that there are moments where she could have cared more about her Cetra heritage: why doesn't she read the books Sephiroth did in Nibelheim? Or be more interested in Cosmo Canyon? Those would have been great addition, especially since she's part of the team that goes to the Shinra Mansion, she could've learned there what she can't learn in Icicle village (since she's dead).

On the other side I did really love it when we arrived at the Temple. Her trial was really sad, it touched me a lot to see this little girl being ignored by adults while asking for help. Her speech was interesting too, because it could be a warning about what to do against Sephiroth, but also when she described true strength, I saw Tifa, as well as the path that she set herself on, considering her motherly characterisation in ACC. So this Aerith is changing, her meeting for the first time the knowledge of the Ancients, her seeing her little sad crying and alone is a moment of truth, a moment when she decides that she will save the Planet against Sephiroth. And I really liked this Aerith.

For the dream date, as I said, it looks like in every universe Aerith is going to be confronted to her own feelings towards Cloud and Zack, and understand that Cloud doesn't see her that way. Their bond is a deep friendship, he does cherish her, but not like she wanted or maybe not how she thought she wanted. Because behind all of this, Zack, who is their connection, never disappeared from her heart, as she didn't want him to.

 

[CldS7]

Does anyone? Yuffie manages to sus out Cloud/Tifa's mutual romantic feelings within days of joining the group. Yet she doesn't seem to be aware of any such dynamic with Cloud/Aerith despite the latter being seemingly quite pushy and overt, especially in comparison to the more reserved Tifa, on the subject.

Similarly, do we really know Aerith has a thing for Cloud? There's no unambiguous moment, no segment that presents itself that cannot be explained in a platonic way. Further, there are plenty of moments that cast doubt on the matter, least of all that Aerith admits to loving another man.

ToTP establishes both Aerith and Tifa as deep friends with zero feelings of rivalry. How is the latter possible unless they are ignorant of each other's love life or, alternatively, they are fully aware of each other's love lives and they aren't in competition?

(as an aside, Aerith's behaviour in Rebirth fits well with what @LunarTarotGirl suggests - vis "living for each moment" - but this needs to be re-examined in Rebirth where she can see the future, knows she will die and is imminently aware that Cloud loves Tifa and will end up with her)

like the whole rest of the party acknowledges and has background dialogue of teasing Cloud and Tifas relationship but literally none speak about Cloud and Aerith

if the devs wanted to show something 'romantic' then I think they should have added some lines as well. Cause it makes the whole 'dynamic' seem like it's coming solely from Aerith.

tbh im still shocked how unbalanced the devs made the relationship between each individual girl

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Personally what I regret is that there are moments where she could have cared more about her Cetra heritage:

- I kinda wish they expanded this on Aerith's history though.. I would love to understand about Cetra and how they have become annihilated ( i mean details on how it happened ) . I think they focused her on different stuff same with OG.

On the other side I did really love it when we arrived at the Temple.

- oh in my case its cosmo canyon although was indeed like an extention to temples soo yeah i like it too ( the side quest is good too unlike costa del sol). Also it was one of the main improvement we have when she learned to communicate with planet / Lifestream.

Just ending though... I cried even harder for Zack once again.

 

[hytekz]

Does anyone? Yuffie manages to sus out Cloud/Tifa's mutual romantic feelings within days of joining the group. Yet she doesn't seem to be aware of any such dynamic with Cloud/Aerith despite the latter being seemingly quite pushy and overt, especially in comparison to the more reserved Tifa, on the subject.

Similarly, do we really know Aerith has a thing for Cloud? There's no unambiguous moment, no segment that presents itself that cannot be explained in a platonic way. Further, there are plenty of moments that cast doubt on the matter, least of all that Aerith admits to loving another man.

ToTP establishes both Aerith and Tifa as deep friends with zero feelings of rivalry. How is the latter possible unless they are ignorant of each other's love lives or, alternatively, they are fully aware of each other's love lives and they aren't in competition?

(as an aside, Aerith's behaviour in Rebirth fits well with what @LunarTarotGirl suggests - vis "living for each moment" and wanting to spend time with someone she has feelings for - but this needs to be re-examined in Remake where she can see the future, knows she will die and is imminently aware that Cloud loves Tifa and will end up with her)

No I don't think she does, I was just entertaining the idea that even if she does, I don't Tifa has any idea. And as I already said, I think it is Aerith who's trying to deepen Cloud and Tifa bond by showing Tifa that Cloud was there for her when they were little.

 

[Yoru]

Can we please tone down the Aerith bashing and understand that she's a complex character who has been quite faithfully written to her core character? Also for everyone's sake, stop discussing the dates as if one was more canon and made more sense than any other, they all make sense because Cloud is acting faithfully to his own characterisation with each character.


The "promise" from Cloud is actually a mistranslation. Which explains how this flows much better in JP (the FR also has that mistranslation). Also I've said it to me NTPK feels more like her singing to both Cloud and Zack but whatever. It also fits the ending.

Coming back to Aerith's characterisation, I think we should separate two Aerith: the one we have in game and have had since REMAKE, and the one who appears at the dream date who is more akin to CoLW!Aerith to me. I separate the two because I am not sure that CoLW!Aerith had the same experience as "our" Aerith. To me the dream date speaks of something more meta between the relationship of Cloud - Aerith - Zack and how, in each universe, it will keep repeating.

Now, onto "our" Aerith: she is 22, discovering the world, wanting to visit and see everything, wanting to have fun, crushing on the guy who reminds her of her first love, whom she still hasn't moved on from. It's her big adventure, the one that her mother promised her when she was a kid. This is Aerith, as she is presented to us, and as she was in the OG, just expanded upon.

Personally what I regret is that there are moments where she could have cared more about her Cetra heritage: why doesn't she read the books Sephiroth did in Nibelheim? Or be more interested in Cosmo Canyon? Those would have been great addition, especially since she's part of the team that goes to the Shinra Mansion, she could've learned there what she can't learn in Icicle village (since she's dead).

On the other side I did really love it when we arrived at the Temple. Her trial was really sad, it touched me a lot to see this little girl being ignored by adults while asking for help. Her speech was interesting too, because it could be a warning about what to do against Sephiroth, but also when she described true strength, I saw Tifa, as well as the path that she set herself on, considering her motherly characterisation in ACC. So this Aerith is changing, her meeting for the first time the knowledge of the Ancients, her seeing her little sad crying and alone is a moment of truth, a moment when she decides that she will save the Planet against Sephiroth. And I really liked this Aerith.

For the dream date, as I said, it looks like in every universe Aerith is going to be confronted to her own feelings towards Cloud and Zack, and understand that Cloud doesn't see her that way. Their bond is a deep friendship, he does cherish her, but not like she wanted or maybe not how she thought she wanted. Because behind all of this, Zack, who is their connection, never disappeared from her heart, as she didn't want him to.

Great presentation ! Perhaps I haven't weighed enough the fact that it's not our Remake/Rebirth Aerith during the final date. Makes much more sense she felt so strange to me.

 

[c.lupara]

The "promise" from Cloud is actually a mistranslation. Which explains how this flows much better in JP (the FR also has that mistranslation).

I'm pretty sure it's not and that's because the Italian subtitles don't follow the English version but the Japanese one. Obviously if it's a mistake I'll take note of it.

 

[Eerie]

I'm pretty sure it's not and that's because the Italian subtitles don't follow the English version but the Japanese one. Obviously if it's a mistake I'll take note of it.

I've seen the JP translation of this line, there is no "I promise". It is kind of implied which is probably why it's everywhere, but it's not used in JP as Nojima is very aware of what a promise entails in FFVII.

 

[c.lupara]

I've seen the JP translation of this line, there is no "I promise". It is kind of implied which is probably why it's everywhere, but it's not used in JP as Nojima is very aware of what a promise entails in FFVII.

Yes, the addition was probably made to be more linear with the Italian localization

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I've seen the JP translation of this line, there is no "I promise". It is kind of implied which is probably why it's everywhere, but it's not used in JP as Nojima is very aware of what a promise entails in FFVII.

- what does it say in JP?

 

[hytekz]

- what does it say in JP?

きっとif I remember correctly. Which could be translated to surely, certainly

 

[thetriplerhyme]

yeah sorry a friend just confirm it they said

“きっとだよ” [ you sure
“ああ、きっとだ“ [Oh, I’m sure.]

@Eerie is right nojima is very particular with 'promises ' FF7 why mistranslate it like these.. this is annoying SENA *fbhdsg

 

[Empyrea]

Hi everyone, first time posting here. Loved the conversations so I decided to join the party.
I'd like to know what the consensus is on Aerith in Rebirth. Am I the only one thinking she's written super akwardly ? They're pushing the "Roomates" relation with Tifa to the max and I love that. It's so much better in my opinion than the OG which was kinda cringe from time to time. But her attitude with Cloud is really bothering me in the last two chapters. Basically all the party knows there's something between Tifa and Cloud. Even Yuffie is talking about it (so this means the girls are talking about it offscreen with each other). Aerith has always been pushy and flirty. Always seen it as a game for her (and testing this Zack persona in front of her of course) but it feels very weird to me. It's good all the "shippers" have their moment I guess...
... But when i see all this LTD nonsense and how the new timeline thing should allow her to take Tifa's place in the Cloud comeback... yeah no. For me, that's not understanding FF7.

Late, but hi!

Re: my stance on Aerith in Rebirth -- It's complicated. I get the intention, but I don't always like it. I get that she reset, more or less, from losing her memories, but some of her actions just don't really sit well with me. But then, when scenes don't involve Cloud (going on dates with him, anyway), she's completely fine.

 

[Graymouse]

Yakusoku やくそく is the word for promise, if anyone is wondering.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Yakusoku やくそく is the word for promise, if anyone is wondering.

- me hating SENA once again ( give me just this day~ ) I'll get over it tomorrow

 

[Maidenofwar]

I don't think Tifa is dumb like with her huh and things, and Barret's well that's the last one for now (date), etc.

Barret, great romantic that he is seems like a love all the love kind of guy, Red XIII date is also nice for Aerith, I mean other than Yuffie I wouldn't say the whole party goes full on Cloti at all, Cait Sith to a lesser extent but he also gets curious about what Aerith is writing too.

 

[hytekz]

It's already established that "date" for Aerith doesn't really means anything. In remake she calls going shopping with Tifa a date, also in Rebirth when she's with Tifa in Costa del Sol. After their talks about first love and what happens in Gongaga, their no way Tifa to think that Aerith as a thing for Cloud (even Aerith doesn't know)