SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Well apart from the dream date which i think is a future lifestream Aerith who just wants closure on a what could have been? which we still don't exactly get closure on xd. "at least i know now where we stand" what other parts in the main story did Aerith actually try to be with Cloud? Dream date she knows she dies and wants to recreate one of her happiest moments (crisis core) and tells Cloud to play along she just wants the experience of having an actual proper date with Cloud in which she ends up saying she likes cloud but doesnt know if that love or just a very strong like
That's why I'm saying from the start I didn't like it. Date is awkward, Aerith feels off (TO ME) and in the end her "like like" thing is super vague at best.
Marlene just says she really likes Cloud though that might just be english translation
Her next sentence is : "Cause you weren't there !" So to me it's just solidifed that if Zack is in the equation, Aerith loves him more ?
 

hytekz

Pro Adventurer
I want to mention that songs can have multiple interpretations and meanings (much like Loveless) and so it’s kinda weird that we’re all trying to agree on ONE interpretation.
Especially seeing the huge difference between the English and japanese lyrics (cobblestone street being never mentioned in the japanese lyrics)
 

c.lupara

Pro Adventurer
I mean ... that doesn't disprove that Tifa knows Aerith likes Cloud or at least thinks she does? Even from the OG that has been the case. All I said is I doubt they meant for them to be seen as bad or extreme lol.
And we agree on this. But for this reason we can't say that Aerith doesn't know about Tifa and vice versa... that's what I mean.
 

Sacky

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AKA
SackyBoy
probably who knows though until part 3 if Aerith even has lifestream sections i would be shocked if she didn't but who knows.
There will be a talk between Zack and Aerith in Lifestream, though
That's why I'm saying from the start I didn't like it. Date is awkward, Aerith feels off (TO ME) and in the end her "like like" thing is super vague at best.

Her next sentence is : "Cause you weren't there !" So to me it's just solidifed that if Zack is in the equation, Aerith loves him more ?
 

CldS7

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AKA
Luffy76
I won't lie, when you fight on the song, I feel like you guys fight against air.

my issue is that narratively how the song is implemented doesn't even make sense for what its trying to convey so why do people even use it as a discussion point
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
Why would Aerith talk about Zack but Tifa wouldn't talk about Cloud?
we don't know what they talked about and we probably will never know.

You know, if the girls really talk about "boys" offscreen since in Gongaga, Tifa knows that Aerith look for any news and letters from Zack, and Tifa also talk about her first love in returh; what if Tifa describing her "liking" for Cloud to Aerith was the same description in Trace of Two Pasts novel? This is probably the base of Aerith questioning her own "liking" to Cloud.

She's attracted to him.
She wanna know/meet the real him.
She cares for him.

But...
is her earnest desire is to be together with him, just the two of them, just like when she give Zack her 23 wishes?
If the Aerith who questions this is the Lifestream!Aerith, they're separated by life and death.
In this situation, what if she's thinking of Tifa's love for him and her unresolved feelings for Zack?
Tbh, I dont think Aerith is that selfish.

I dont remember, but in FF8, Quistis also questioning her feelings for Squall, right?
Rinoa doesn't do this. Tifa doesn't do this.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
That's why I'm saying from the start I didn't like it. Date is awkward, Aerith feels off (TO ME) and in the end her "like like" thing is super vague at best.

Her next sentence is : "Cause you weren't there !" So to me it's just solidifed that if Zack is in the equation, Aerith loves him more ?
I think Aerith is meant to feel off on purpose which is why Cloud says why are you being weird. Its 100 percent not the same Aerith we played with. The green visions show this
 

Sacky

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AKA
SackyBoy
You know, if the girls really talk about "boys" offscreen since in Gongaga, Tifa knows that Aerith look for any news and letters from Zack, and Tifa also talk about her first love in returh; what if Tifa describing her "liking" for Cloud to Aerith was the same description in Trace of Two Pasts novel? This is probably the base of Aerith questioning her own "liking" to Cloud.

She's attracted to him.
She wanna know/meet the real him.
She cares for him.

But...
is her earnest desire is to be together with him, just the two of them, just like when she give Zack her 23 wishes?
If the Aerith who questions this is the Lifestream!Aerith, they're separated by life and death.
In this situation, what if she's thinking of Tifa's love for him and her unresolved feelings for Zack?
Tbh, I dont think Aerith is that selfish.

I dont remember, but in FF8, Quistis also questioning her feelings for Squall, right?
Rinoa doesn't do this. Tifa doesn't do this.
that would be very interesting, actually
 

thetriplerhyme

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AKA
thetriplerhyme
I think @Maidenofwar point is since right now its not in game ( or at least they havent put that in the story - girls POV I mean we have known it on TOTP though.. ) so we're safe to assume either Aerith nor Tifa doesnt know fully they liked the same guy or they know it but choose to 'trust each other'

Aerith may have shared it with Tifa on Zack's history soo she might have an idea on what's going on trully on Aerith's we may never know yet. @eleamaya post maybe on point here. I agree with her


Tifa's shy and quiet I bet even if she's jealous you'll never hear about it
On Aerith case she said it SHE IS JEALOUS of Cloti's childhood history in Nibelheim

Aerith may or may not know Tifa's feelings ( I'm just referring to Rebirth right now since not everyone seems to read TOTP) we dont know but she known Cloud. She pointed it out "If I were you I'd be here all the time ( water tower). - Argue it may depends on your answer but the fact that she's jealous of their history its also safe to assume she known Cloud's fancied Tifa.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
I think @Maidenofwar point is since right now its not in game ( or at least they havent put that in the story - girls POV I mean ) so we're safe to assume either Aerith nor Tifa doesnt know fully they liked the same guy or they know it but choose to 'trust each other'

Tifa's shy and quiet I bet even if she's jealous you'll hear about it
On Aerith case she said it SHE IS JEALOUS of Cloti's childhood history in Nibelheim

Aerith may or may not know Tifa's feeling we dont know but she known Cloud. She pointed it out "If I were you I'd be here all the time ( water tower). - Argue it may depends on your answer but the fact that she's jealous of their history its also safe to assume she known Cloud's fancied Tifa.
I take her jealous of their history just having to do with her loneliness; it feels like the wrong time for her to talk about it though and should have been brought up more in the story. Thats on the writers fault though
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I think what more people should take into consideration here is Aerith's monologue outlines exactly what she feels. She does fall for Cloud eventually. But she is torn about it because he reminds her of Zack. She wants to move on but is it really moving on? She isn't sure and she feels guilt because she thinks it's cruel to forget about Zack and be happy without him.
I think Square's been pretty consistent that Aerith just can't move on, that she's stuck on Zack in a lot of ways.

Also the elephant in the room. It was a love triangle, by definition both girls have feelings for the guy. That's how love triangles work.
Technically there are other kinds of love triangles. You're right this is an A -> B <- C style where the question is if B reciprocates - though we know he does for Tifa for certain - but there's also A -> B -> C triangles where someone pines for someone who pines for someone else and the rare A -> B -> C -> A triangles which is like the former but the third person pines for the first.
There's also love ping pong, which is when you have two people pining for each other comically missing the point.

like the whole rest of the party acknowledges and has background dialogue of teasing Cloud and Tifas relationship but literally none speak about Cloud and Aerith

if the devs wanted to show something 'romantic' then I think they should have added some lines as well. Cause it makes the whole 'dynamic' seem like it's coming solely from Aerith.
It is. She's engaging with Cloud in a way he doesn't quite get because she's subconsciously treating him like Zack and even if he wasn't mind addled he wouldn't get that.

tbh im still shocked how unbalanced the devs made the relationship between each individual girl
Almost like they're sick of things.

the same people that say its a rebound jealous kiss that Cloud accidentally gave to Tifa
There's nothing accidental about the kiss. Cloud initiates, and that's after he pulls Tifa in for a hug, too. "Rebound jealous" is pure cope on their part.
 

Stiggie

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Stiggie
Strongly disagree with all of this.

If it's "bad" for Aerith to shoot her shot knowing Tifa likes Cloud it's equally as "bad" for Tifa to shoot her shot knowing Aerith likes Cloud or thinks she does, doubt the intentions was for either of them to be seen as bad though. I don't see it as that extreme for them.

Cait Sith was done a lot better in this game anyway, and Reeve in Remake/here.
No, this I vehemently oppose, this I find preposterous.

Why on earth should Tifa care about Aeriths feelings for Cloud? These things are in no way similar.

Lets take the worst case scenario for Aerith since her behavior should be acceptable in all situations, as Tifas is.

Here we have this girl giving a flower meant for lovers to Cloud, and then smiles when she realizes he gave it to Tifa, this girl who encourages Cloud to go after his special person, this girl who befriends Tifa and pretends to be supportive of her, even telling Tifa to follow her heart. Yeah she forgot her memories of the future, but she didn't forget literally everything she did in Midgar I hope.

Not that it matters because Rebirth is where the real issues lie.

This girl then hears Tifa talk about how she and Cloud grew up together in ToTP, and then hears about everything they've gone through in Nibelheim. Tifa then chooses to open up to Aerith about her concerns about Cloud. Which is then followed up by a series of events where Tifa and Aerith confide in each other concerning their fears and worries about their respective Soldiers. Where Aerith engages Tifa in talks about "their first loves". Where Aerith talks to Cloud about not taking Tifa for granted, being jealous of the bond Tifa and Cloud have, realizing that Cloud used to sit on the water tower hoping Tifa would wave at him. Hear talks alongside Yuffie about how Tifa already had a massive crush on Cloud as a child. Sees Cloud lose his mind over Tifa in a bikini and how she flirts with him. Hear Cloud shyly giggle about the idea of multiple Tifas. See them go through Gongaga together and how close they are emotionally. See him scream his lungs out when he thinks she's hurt, see him go catatonic at the prospect. See Cloud sit at her bed, hear the people tease them about almost kissing. Pretending to be supportive and on team "you go girl" in that moment. See Tifa and Cloud on a date in chapter 8. See Cloud jump at the chance to do anything with Tifa while she has to force every single interaction out of him.

And rather than thinking "hmm, I've been using Cloud as sort of a stand in for Zack, but I'm starting to kinda like him, maybe I should check with Tifa about her feelings regarding him because she just lost her best friend and I've been setting myself up as her confidante for her worries regarding Cloud and the two of them seem to have a huge history and really seem to like each other so perhaps it's better if I recuse myself before I REALLY catch feelings, rather than causing my best friend to have her heart broken the same way mine was." she instead just goes "well, I'm starting to like this guy, so fuck it, live in the now, who cares about other people! I know that Cloud and my best friend are constantly excited to do stuff together and are being heavily suggested by everyone to be in love, but screw that, I'll just force my company on him when Tifa isn't looking! He has clear mental problems clouding his recollections of his past with Tifa so I can probably get between that LOL"

You're telling me that freaking YUFFIE, the 16 year old, understands that there is a thing going on between Cloud and Tifa, but the freaking empathetic ancient just had no clue? If Aerith doesn't know she should, because she should have asked! As any real friend would. If she really has no clue that just exposes a stunning callousness towards the life and feelings of her "best friend". And this would be so easily solved as well. During the flashback to her talk with Tifa in the GS date, just have her ask Tifa. "Can I just ask...do you like Cloud?", have Tifa respond with a suspiciously defensive denial, have Aerith reply with "..is it ok then if....if I try?", Tifa, in an shy panic that belies her true feelings: "no...I...ofcourse not, I don't mind...", cue Aerith walking with Tifa looking heartbroken.

But the game didn't do that, apparently the thought of Tifa never even enters Aeriths mind, instead it sets up a dynamic where Tifa is helping Aerith with Zack, and Aerith is helping Tifa with Cloud. Always the dynamic is Tifa and Cloud talking together, then Tifa talking with Aerith, with the topic either being Tifa helping Aerith with information regarding Zack, or Aerith helping Tifa with Cloud. And yet, within hours of Tifa telling Aerith that Cloud confided in her that he knew Zack Aerith is writing love songs where she takes one of Tifas most treasured memories, and stabs her in the back with it by incorporating it into a love song about how she and Cloud wouldn't need that shit.

The "homewrecker" allegations didn't just spring up out of the ground for no reason, I am not exaggerating when I say this version of the character sickens me. This version of the character is a snake who worms their way into your good graces by either pretending to be your friend, or by forcing her company on you until you accept her, but will never think of the feelings of other people before she acts. I have known people like this in real life, they were all disgusting selfish assholes who didn't care about the feelings of their friends because they thought about relationships as "well, they're free people aren't they, we can do what we want", yeah, you can, I am not saying it's illegal, just that this is the behavior we see in people who just do not care about the feelings of others.

And what is Tifas supposed "equally as bad" here?

"Oh, the girl I've been helping getting to terms with the death/disappearance of the boy she loved whom I entrusted with all my worries about the boy I love has now decided that she's over the guy she's always talking about and now wants the guy I'M always talking about, whom I've been in love with for 7 years and was finally growing closer with. I suppose I should get out of her way....

What? This is not the same, it's absurd to even propose that they are.
 
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Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I think Aerith is meant to feel off on purpose which is why Cloud says why are you being weird. Its 100 percent not the same Aerith we played with. The green visions show this

Yeah in the end it's my fault. I was just pissed the game showed this date to my face. In the sens that Cloud was kinda neutral/cold with Aerith during my game, and all of a sudden, you want to take couple pictures while you kissed another girl few hours ago. Kinda ruined my willing suspension of disbelief.
 

thetriplerhyme

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AKA
thetriplerhyme
I take her jealous of their history just having to do with her loneliness; it feels like the wrong time for her to talk about it though and should have been brought up more in the story. Thats on the writers fault though

- yeaah there should be a timing right.. but i'm gonna give this one to devs and let it pass..

- i'm picturing they probably argued this themselves i mean where is the proper timeline or place to put Aerith's jealousy in Cloti's history other than Nibelheim. To be fair ( removing the shipping hat ) this is also bit on into how hard her childhood ( wished they could have shown it a bit more on than [i forgot who said in on this tread] and cetra's history

- my geniune feedback is they put Aerith in too much on LTD's I wanna know more about Lifestream and cetra though.. does those libraries in Nibelheim didnt say anything bout cetra's history?
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I did not feel that at all from Cloud towards Aerith if you meant her? He clearly cares about her a lot so he indulges her. He doesn't really mind going along with her pace at this point and is used to it.
Personal feelings I guess. Yes Cloud cares for her. He's very protective and take his Mercenary/Guardian role at heart. But I didn't have this feeling of "going full along with her fantasies" during the game. Maybe I'm alone with this take, but I surprisingly found Cloud super cold and weirdly rude with Aerith during Rebirth.
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
Technically there are other kinds of love triangles. You're right this is an A -> B <- C style where the question is if B reciprocates - though we know he does for Tifa for certain - but there's also A -> B -> C triangles where someone pines for someone who pines for someone else and the rare A -> B -> C -> A triangles which is like the former but the third person pines for the first.
There's also love ping pong, which is when you have two people pining for each other comically missing the point.
This is Love Square right?
a) Z --> A --> C <--> T (this is if we take Marlene's word as the truth and Aerith doesn't love Zack anymore)
b) Z <--> A <-?-> C <--> T (Aerith is stuck but she also has feelings for Cloud, and Cloud is ambiguous)
c) Z --> A <--> C <-- T (THIS IS CLERITH FAVORITE LOL)

I almost forget this S--->C lmao
 
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Stiggie

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AKA
Stiggie
my geniune feedback is they put Aerith in too much on LTD's I wanna know more about Lifestream and cetra though.. does those libraries in Nibelheim didnt say anything bout cetra's history?
Honestly, it's just the LTD poisoning everything it touches again. The story of Aerith coming to terms with Zacks death, Aeriths bond with Cloud, Aeriths bond with Tifa, Aeriths bond with Cloud and Tifa as a couple, these things could all be told SOOOOO much more effectively if they went all in with it without trying to maintain the ambiguity.

If they really showed how Aeriths bonds of friendships helped her. If they showed her getting over Zack by living vicariously through Cloud and Tifa or something, or just being excited to see it happen, these people could feel so much closer.
 

Hellenic

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Hellenic
Totally agree. Thing is a lot of people just took the romance at face value and they're just waiting for the Aerith/Cloud kiss in part 3 (yes for real)
The only people waiting and still expecting this are the extremes on that side. No one else would be foolish enough to expect one at this point. Just let those people cope hard.
 
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