SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[luminous03]

Zack asking to save Aerith was super weird to me but reading your thoughts make sense now.

It could totally be a setup to prepare Cloud fall in Part 3. The "I died for you and you failed at the only thing I asked in return" will hit really hard.

Oh boy, it's gonna hit hard if ever zack blames cloud

I got emotional watching cloud suffering in pixels back in OG, and breakdown in crisis core. Now i will definitely burst out in tears watching him fall apart in part 3.

 

[Hellenic]

Oh boy, it's gonna hit hard if ever zack blames cloud

I got emotional watching cloud suffering in pixels back in OG, and breakdown in crisis core. Now i will definitely burst out in tears watching him fall apart in part 3.

I don't think he would ever blame Cloud himself, but i could definitely see Cloud thinking this way.

 

[Yoru]

I dont think Zack is the person who would blame him

There is a difference between reality and Cloud own mind.

Never said it is facts. Just telling you what Cloud will think about it. He has a destructive mind at this point in the game. Full of doubt about himself. So the second Sephiroth tells him the truth about Zack death, Cloud will start to link the points. It was already a reveal bomb in OG. But this time they added the "fake" Aerith death. So when Cloud understands that Zack he's dead to save him, and that he failed to save Aerith in return. Yup. He's gone. No more playable Cloud.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

There is a difference between reality and Cloud own mind.

Never said it is facts. Just telling you what Cloud will think about it. He has a destructive mind at this point in the game. Full of doubt about himself. So the second Sephiroth tells him the truth about Zack death, Cloud will start to link the points. It was already a reveal bomb in OG.

He's gone. No more playable Cloud.

- ahh i get what you mean i understand but i dont think their deaths will make his mind collapse ~ again that can be cherry on top but not the total reason we cannot play Cloud anymore

In Northern crater is was also written in ultimania when Sephiroth told Cloud his biggest gaslighting that he's not a soldier and not in nibelheim paired with Tifa's doubts WILL MAKE HIS MIND COLLAPSE. Because that's where the true cloud inside will totally loose himself ( Tifa is real cloud's only connection to reality because of he her woke up -- so if she doubts him he will totally lost it)

He gave him the black materia and world will end and there no more playable cloud~ he returns back to catatonic

therefore fulfilling cait sith's prediction..

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btw guys just sharin in case you're about to play when i played the ending I removed all of Aerith's materia and stuff~ I expected her fate lmao I can't believe I survive that last battle

 

[Yoru]

There is no relationship mechanics here because regardless of what the player thinks of Tifa, Cloud loves Tifa. They then, for real this time, express their mutual romantic feelings for each other under the Highwind.

And for the record, I want to warn the UHDF (Under the Highwind Deny Force) the original scene was much more explicit before they chose to tone it down. So, if I were them, I'd choose my words carefully when attacking developers on Twitter.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

And for the record, I want to warn the UHDF (Under the Highwind Deny Force)

sounds like a police force hahahaha @Yoru you made my day again hahahahahaha
btw I also dont think there's a need for the affinity points still in part 3 especially on HW Cloud's not being controlled anymore.. its his choice now

 

[abzy1200]

And for the record, I want to warn the UHDF (Under the Highwind Deny Force) the original scene was much more explicit before they chose to tone it down. So, if I were them, I'd choose my words carefully when attacking developers on Twitter.

Not to mention the devs have already been far more bold with their display of Cloud and Tifa's relationship in Rebirth compared to the original, even when basically all of Cloud and Tifa's biggest moments together are still yet to come in part 3.

Coupled with the fact Nojima is definitely not on their side. He has basically said in the past that Cloud and Tifa "belonged" at "home" together and the fact that, apparently part 3 will have a happy ending, and that it will follow the original storyline, meaning that Aerith stays dead, so Cloud would be unable to have a happy ending in a Clerith version of this story, I would be really worried if I was them.

 

[Yoru]

I would be really worried if I was them.

That's why the extreme branch is so vocal and aggressive right now. The game that was supposed to give them the most of CA moments choose to depict much more of Cloud relation with Tifa than expected. And people know what is supposed to come next. Their time to shine is gone and they didn't have that much to begin with.

tl;dr : It's a desperate cry because they know deep down they lost (nothing to lose to begin with imo because the OG was pretty clear. But again, to each their own)

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I'm not sure who posted it here but both Zack and Aerith are same who just calmly accepted their fate even given to them. Aerith also seems to know she's about to die and just accepted it even forgives those who caused her a lot of pains. Zack is also the same even in death ( other worlds / whaterver you call it ) he's still trying to save his co-soldiers ( i literally cried when he said this )

This post was beautiful and you understand these characters so well.

And yes, it's very heartwarming. This is leading to Advent Children and so I'm sure it will be a theme here too.
Cloud is kind, and he wants to help people. He just blames himself too harshly when he can't. The only one that needs to do any forgiving and to himself is Cloud. He is always the toughest on himself, blaming himself constantly when he fails to protect someone.

Yet we see time again, his precious people never blamed him. Not Tifa, not his mom, not Zack, not Aerith nor even Denzel. And it's him that needed to realize that.

And in Advent Children we have basically everyone telling him this until he accepts it himself and it's sad but a beautiful character arc that I'm sure ReTrilogy will touch on.

 

[abzy1200]

That's why the extreme branch is so vocal and aggressive right now. The game that was supposed to give them the most of CA moments choose to depict much more of Cloud relation with Tifa than expected. And people know what is supposed to come next. Their time to shine is gone and they didn't have that much to begin with.

tl;dr : It's a desperate cry because they know deep down they lost (nothing to lose to begin with imo because the OG was pretty clear. But again, to each their own)

The ultimania was their last chance for something that supported Clerith, and dev interviews only indirectly confirmed that Clerith won't be endgame.

No wonder they've upped the ante on their terrible takes. Why be honest when you can just lie?

 

[Ryeleigh]

No wonder they've upped the ante on their terrible takes. Why be honest when you can just lie?

The extreme shippers of any ship seem to operate on the idea that if they repeat a lie often and loudly enough, it becomes the truth. It only works so long as people don't check the original source material or think for themselves.

 

[nars305]

The ultimania was their last chance for something that supported Clerith, and dev interviews only indirectly confirmed that Clerith won't be endgame.

No wonder they've upped the ante on their terrible takes. Why be honest when you can just lie?

It seems that even if there was nothing in the ultimania, to some people it had everything. Like you said, they can and DO just lie. Suddenly people become part of the dev team and can tell us what is what about the game.

Reminds me of when I finished chapter 12 and went to watch all the GS dates. There I saw someone argue another commenter’s opinion about Tifa’s date. They said Aerith’s is the main date. This was before the ultimania.

Just straight up pulled from thin air.

 

[Yoru]

They said Aerith’s is the main date. This was before the ultimania.

Reminds me of OG and how Tifa's date is impossible to obtain because it has to be Aerith... when I obtained it first try without even knowing what I was doing... because you know.. I was 10 and Internet wasn't really a thing yet lmao.

So yeah, people didn't wait 2024 to spread misinformations

 

[GamerSkull]

Reminds me of OG and how Tifa's date is impossible to obtain because it has to be Aerith... when I obtained it first try without even knowing what I was doing... because you know.. I was 10 and Internet wasn't really a thing yet lmao.

So yeah, people didn't wait 2024 to spread misinformations

To be fair, it's incredibly easy to get both the Aerith date and the High Affection Tifa Highwind scene.

That's why I like to think that's probably the canon one tbh. You get the Aerith date and then after the true Cloud is restored, you have the payoff with Tifa under the Highwind at the highest affection. That being said, the low affection version still has pretty romantic undertones too.

But yeah, I think it's pretty clear the devs want you to experience all the dates, therefore they made them consistent with each other. Because of that Cloud always acts a specific way depending on who he's with.

And yeah, the idea that Aerith's date is still the main one in Rebirth despite everything we've heard just feels like the inhalation of massive copium.

 

[Yoru]

To be fair, it's incredibly easy to get both the Aerith date and the High Affection Tifa Highwind scene.

That's why I like to think that's probably the canon one tbh. You get the Aerith date and then after the true Cloud is restored, you have the payoff with Tifa under the Highwind at the highest affection. That being said, the low affection version still has pretty romantic undertones too.

But yeah, I think it's pretty clear the devs want you to experience all the dates, therefore they made them consistent with each other. Because of that Cloud always acts a specific way depending on who he's with.

And yeah, the idea that Aerith's date is still the main one in Rebirth despite everything we've heard just feels like the inhalation of massive copium.

Just saying that if you prefer Tifa it's not that complicated to have her date. Like not at all. It's not some kind of ultra secret options or some other things i've read for many years. If you like cute brunette childhood friend from the moment you meet her at the bar, just talking to her like normal unlocks the date.

And you don't even have to be an ass with Aerith.

So this canon thing is still copium even in OG imo.

And the story stay the same in the end, so even the game doesn't care about "player choices" it's just a good illusion

 

[abzy1200]

Slightly off topic but, I'm replaying the game on hard mode and have just finished the loveless play for the second time, and yet again, as I've stated before I'm not so good at this whole "interpreting" thing, and I can't really make heads or tails of what it's supposed to represent/foreshadow, if anything at all.

So I'm sorry if this is a tired topic or if no one cares, but I'd like to hear what ye think of it and or what it means. That way I might be able to piece something together, thanks.

 

[Stiggie]

Just saying that if you prefer Tifa it's not that complicated to have her date. Like not at all. It's not some kind of ultra secret options or some other things i've read for many years. If you like cute brunette childhood friend from the moment you meet her at the bar, just talking to her like normal unlocks the date.

And you don't even have to be an ass with Aerith.

So this canon thing is still copium even in OG imo.

And the story stay the same in the end, so even the game doesn't care about "player choices" it's just a good illusion

It's what I like to call the "under the hood fallacy".

These people think that they can use data that's not supposed to be seen as evidence. But the problem is that the gears of a system can't be used to show you how you're supposed to interpret the end result.

It's like if someone tried to argue that there are multiple Chadleys running around by hacking the game and through some developer mode seeing that when you are talking to Chadley in Costa Del Sol there is another Chadley model in Junon and Gongaga, etc.
That doesn't show that there are multiple Chadleys, it just means that they don't despawn models when you're not supposed to be able to be in 2 places at once anyway.

Same here. This idea that since Aerith starts with more affection points that that means she's the canon, or even intended, date, doesn't automatically hold water. And the idea that it means there is ACTUALLY more affection there is completely bonkers. It's just a programming choice, you can't read the programmers mind from it. Maybe they wanted it to be about equal and discerned that since it's easier to get points with Tifa this makes it about 50-50. Maybe Tifa requires more effort because she's more timid and therefore requires more points to push her over the edge, but starting her off with fewer points is just the easier way to program that (it is). And yes, maybe they wanted to push the Aerith date more during a first playthrough, and Tifa on a second, without that being intended to insinuate only one is canon, as Rebirth has now made concrete.

The point is you can't just look under the hood of the game and use what you find there are evidence.

Slightly off topic but, I'm replaying the game on hard mode and have just finished the loveless play for the second time, and yet again, as I've stated before I'm not so good at this whole "interpreting" thing, and I can't really make heads or tails of what it's supposed to represent/foreshadow, if anything at all.

So I'm sorry if this is a tired topic or if no one cares, but I'd like to hear what ye think of it and or what it means. That way I might be able to piece something together, thanks.

It's not off topic, but I also can't answer it for you. Ever since Crisis Core I don't want to think about loveless. I think the entire point is that you can take it a thousand ways. Like predictions, which is why I hate thinking about it. I do get the feeling that the Hero and Rosa are meant in some way to represent Zack and Aerith though.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

@Stiggie: Ryu and many others have pointed out for literal years a big hole in trying to use the affection score mechanic to prove a ship. Namely, even if you allow it's use despite it being "under the hood" shit as you said, those values measure the characters affection for Cloud not Cloud's affection for them. Since the point of the LTD is to prove who Cloud loves, they're irrelevant either way

 

[thetriplerhyme]

@Stiggie: Ryu and many others have pointed out for literal years a big hole in trying to use the affection score mechanic to prove a ship. Namely, even if you allow it's use despite it being "under the hood" shit as you said, those values measure the characters affection for Cloud not Cloud's affection for them. Since the point of the LTD is to prove who Cloud loves, they're irrelevant either way

- exactly because there are choices and you're the one whose controlling them ( if I got point correct --> let me know if I'm wrong) I personally wished it was remove in PART 3 cus its not players choice anymore just CLOUD. He deserve to be heard ~


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btw just sharin this I'm 100% sure now Aerith's did died in forgotten City~ I have to admit because of zack it wavers me a bit maybe they'll defy their fate but I guess devs just wanted players to how it feels like to do soo.. but again take away that truth and chance.

x.com

x.com

 

[nars305]

Speaking of horrible arguments. I had morbid curiosity and clicked a video I shouldn’t have because I knew I would find some interesting comments, and I was not let down.

I saw it mentioned the koibito tsunagi handholding statement, but it was the part after that gagged me: “Japanese people are very shy when it comes to kisses. Before Western people came to Japan, kisses were reserved for prostitutes and sexuality…it is fan service for westerners, and only about sexuality.”

HUH

With that, I’ve learned to just avoid anything I know will have takes like this.

 

[GamerSkull]

Speaking of horrible arguments. I had morbid curiosity and clicked a video I shouldn’t have because I knew I would find some interesting comments, and I was not let down.

I saw it mentioned the koibito tsunagi handholding statement, but it was the part after that gagged me: “Japanese people are very shy when it comes to kisses. Before Western people came to Japan, kisses were reserved for prostitutes and sexuality…it is fan service for westerners, and only about sexuality.”

HUH

With that, I’ve learned to just avoid anything I know will have takes like this.

I doubt that’s true. Seems like some next level bullshittery. And I don’t actually like the insinuation here that Cloud is treating Tifa as a prostitute. I doubt very much that the devs would imply that.

No offense to most normal CA fans, but this is actually legitimate gaslighting. Wow.

 

[null]

Yeah like that time Cecil and Rosa kissed when she was rescued. What a couple of prostitutes. Have a little class you animals.

 

[nars305]

btw just sharin this I'm 100% sure now Aerith's did died in forgotten City~ I have to admit because of zack it wavers me a bit maybe they'll defy their fate but I guess devs just wanted players to how it feels like to do soo.. but again take away that truth and chance.

x.com

x.com

I’m 99% convinced she has died too, keeping 1% out for being wrong but I’d be shocked. They’ve said things about maintaining this plot point too many times for me to think otherwise.

I doubt that’s true. Seems like some next level bullshittery. And I don’t actually like the insinuation here that Cloud is treating Tifa as a prostitute. I doubt very much that the devs would imply that.

No offense to most normal CA fans, but this is actually legitimate gaslighting. Wow.

I don’t really care about any other takes or interpretations, it’s these insane ones that are just so bad faith and gross and get under my skin. I don’t even know how someone can come up with that.

 

[GamerSkull]

Yeah like that time Cecil and Rosa kissed when she was rescued. What a couple of prostitutes. Have a little class you animals.

I guess Tidus saw Yuna as a prositute. Scene is now ruined.

You see, that scene is romantic because of the kiss. But I guess they should have just interlocked hands instead, would have been better.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Reminds me of OG and how Tifa's date is impossible to obtain because it has to be Aerith... when I obtained it first try without even knowing what I was doing... because you know.. I was 10 and Internet wasn't really a thing yet lmao.

So yeah, people didn't wait 2024 to spread misinformations

When people lie about one of the most documented mechanics in the game, they reveal their desperation and idiocy. That people are still lying about the AVs in the original game is just stupefying.

Speaking of horrible arguments. I had morbid curiosity and clicked a video I shouldn’t have because I knew I would find some interesting comments, and I was not let down.

I saw it mentioned the koibito tsunagi handholding statement, but it was the part after that gagged me: “Japanese people are very shy when it comes to kisses. Before Western people came to Japan, kisses were reserved for prostitutes and sexuality…it is fan service for westerners, and only about sexuality.”

HUH

With that, I’ve learned to just avoid anything I know will have takes like this.

Oh, this is absolute and complete bullshit. Japan is very big on kissing, both direct and "indirect" and it shows up in media for every age group, including small children.

Slightly off topic but, I'm replaying the game on hard mode and have just finished the loveless play for the second time, and yet again, as I've stated before I'm not so good at this whole "interpreting" thing, and I can't really make heads or tails of what it's supposed to represent/foreshadow, if anything at all.

So I'm sorry if this is a tired topic or if no one cares, but I'd like to hear what ye think of it and or what it means. That way I might be able to piece something together, thanks.

There are tons of valid interpretations of Loveless, but I have a suspicion that it might be vaguely about Zack, given the hero's name "Alphreid" was made up for Rebirth as far as I can tell and represents the first letter of the alphabet while Zack has the last. I also seem to recall from Crisis Core the hero dies trying to make his way home after being betrayed, but feel free to double check that since I haven't in some time.

@Stiggie: Ryu and many others have pointed out for literal years a big hole in trying to use the affection score mechanic to prove a ship. Namely, even if you allow it's use despite it being "under the hood" shit as you said, those values measure the characters affection for Cloud not Cloud's affection for them. Since the point of the LTD is to prove who Cloud loves, they're irrelevant either way

Not only that, but which responses up AVs are either arbitrary, badly programmed, or both
As a perfect example of this, you get a +5 to Barret's AV if you tell Don Corneo that Barret is the name of your boyfriend. Barret is miles away fighting the turks at this point. He can literally not in any way know about this, but it changes his AV. Other good examples are the "leave it to me" and Yuffie recruitment cycle, where repeating a simple set of steps allows you to inflate the AVs for Tifa and Yuffie to ludicrous heights.

As for Aerith at the end of Rebirth, there is absolutely a dead Aerith. The interesting thing is there might be a living Aerith stuck in a splinter world as well, but that's not the one we see in the ending, I don't think.